- Time of past OR future Camino
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Thanks for the stories, Meri and Nuala--they show how important it can be to be a bit vigilant. @Nuala, good thing you caught that one--the thing about ticks that's slightly unnerving is that you can easily be unaware if the small ones if they are attached to you. It's how many of us caught Lyme disease. Prevention is the key.
I don't know that 'like' quite captures the response to the photos in that link, @TerryB, but thank you! (Eyyuuuw.....)dit:- Right on cue! This article on BBC News today:-
Peg and I have created a term for "engorged tick" that is easier to say; "grape". As in "I found a grape on Beau."I don't know that 'like' quite captures the response to the photos in that link
Thank you for your story @David but you mentioned a couple of things that didn't match up with what I have learned (I live where there is a lot of Lyme disease, in fact not too terribly far from the town of Lyme itself.) I'm not saying you don't know what happened to you but the U.S. government's Center for Disease Control has a lot of data on what happens in general. Here are a couple of copy-and-pastes from the portion of the CDC website dealing with tickborne diseasesI was 'tick-bit' in May this year on the Camino and developed Lyme's disease.
Thank you for your story @David but you mentioned a couple of things that didn't match up with what I have learned (I live where there is a lot of Lyme disease, in fact not too terribly far from the town of Lyme itself.) I'm not saying you don't know what happened to you but the U.S. government's Center for Disease Control has a lot of data on what happens in general. Here are a couple of copy-and-pastes from the portion of the CDC website dealing with tickborne diseases
And we all agree that Lyme disease is nasty.
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/transmission/index.html says:
Ticks can attach to any part of the human body but are often found in hard-to-see areas such as the groin, armpits, and scalp. In most cases, the tick must be attached for 36 to 48 hours or more before the Lyme disease bacterium can be transmitted.
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/signs_symptoms/index.html says:
Erythema migrans (EM) rash:
- Occurs in approximately 70 to 80 percent of infected persons
- Begins at the site of a tick bite after a delay of 3 to 30 days (average is about 7 days)
- Expands gradually over a period of days reaching up to 12 inches or more (30 cm) across
- May feel warm to the touch but is rarely itchy or painful
- Sometimes clears as it enlarges, resulting in a target or “bull’s-eye” appearance
- May appear on any area of the body
Me too !!@Penny Kingma I remember your posts about coping with MS. How good is that to have the correct diagnosis! Hope it leads to effective treatment.
I was 'tick-bit' in May this year on the Camino and developed Lyme's disease. I was somewhere on the Meseta a day or so before Fromista and stopped for a break by a stand of trees, a few others were there. It was hot so I lay down for a while and felt what I thought was a small spider bite, sat up and without looking brushed it off.
The bite caused a six inch across rosy inflammation which persisted. No 'head' to the centre of the bite such as with a mosquito. Two weeks later at home I had mild flu symptoms and noticed that where I had been bitten was still a sore rosy coloured area so went straight to the doc and had the two week course double dose, double strength, anti-biotics they prescribe and as far as I know it is gone now. The blood test they will take is to look for the anti-bodies that the body produces but these may not show for eight weeks or so so the doctor will prescribe anyway.
Don't forget that taking anti-biotics also destroys the beneficial flora of the gut so take lots of pro-biotics such as live yoghurt to counter that - healthy intestinal flora means a healthy body and mind - so much illness and depression from poor diet and overuse of medications destroying that good gut balance.
Catching it early usually leads to getting rid of it - not noticing it so that one later develops chronic Lyme's is a bad thing, can be terribly long-term debilitating, serious consequences.
I recognised it as I do first aid on Camino and am read up on the symptoms - though I never expected to diagnose myself!!
But here is the thing - that tiny rascal didn't have time to attach itself, just the tiny bite and I brushed it away and yet I was still infected. So - because of this it is easily missed ... here is what to watch out for.
The bite will raise a slightly rough rosy pink area - this can be a double circle or an area some five or six inches across. The tip here is that it will itch but unlike other bites where there is relief from scratching if you scratch this it will be sore instead.
If you still have that slightly sore rosy patch a couple of weeks later and develop slight flu symptoms then the chances are high that it is Lyme's - get over to the doctor straight away. Straight away!
Though - to make it more difficult some people do not develop the rosy rash/inflammation - but the bite will still be sore if scratched.
When I lay down my shirt rode up, allowing a gap between my waistband and shirt - I do not think that I will ever lie down on grass again unless fully covered!
I hope this helps - nasty disease you know.
It takes less time to type cdc and ilads into Google and find these organisations than it takes to write a question in this threadCould you not use abbreviations please...cdc..ilads????
I know you did since you obviously reacted in particular to the post with the CDC information and links(Yes I read ALL the comments) happy trails!
ALL tick bites should be monitored and were I go get bitten again I would treat prophylactically. TBE May take up to 10 days to show signs. Neurological issues set in shortly thereafter and can be symptomatic with an IgM response for up to a year. Any high fever after a tickbite is SERIOUS and needs immediate medical attention!I know you did since you obviously reacted in particular to the post with the CDC information and links. Information and awareness are very important. Since people do not only walk in Spain and France but also in other parts of Europe, what is your take on TBE? There are areas where it has become more of a concern during the last decade or so than borreliosis.
I’m pretty sure I was offered a vaccination before walking in ‘known’ tick areas.... It had to be ordered quite a while in advance and each shot was around £200. I seem to remember several shots were needed but can’t remember the details as in the end I decided against it. The nurse and I came to the conclusion that avoiding them was best option ie no bare leg (trousers tucked into socks) and avoid long grass areas at all cost.As far as know there is no vaccine for Lyme disease.
There is a vaccine for dogs but currently not for humans, although there was a human vaccine available in the 1990/early 2000s. It only worked well for the American strain of Lyme. Unfortunately it was the victim of anti-vaccine scaremongering, full explanation here.As far as know there is no vaccine for Lyme disease.
SNIP
I recently saw a science programme here that said you should never pull ticks out...the slogan was freeze don't squeezeI came upon a tick removal device on a new product page of a magazine. It can be attached to a keyring. It is called a Tickkey. More information at http://tickkey.com/
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Definitely do not squeeze. The Tickkey does pull though as seen in its illustration. I have not bought this product as I bought something else previously to use on my dog. This works similarly to the Tickkey in the way it slides between the skin and the tick's head but then it is twisted before the pull. This is not as handy to carry with you though.I recently saw a science programme here that said you should never pull ticks out...the slogan was freeze don't squeeze
The vaccination is a protection against TBE (FSME in German), not against Lyme disease/borreliosis. Different diseases but same tick in Europe. There is no known cure for TBE. It has become a considerable public health concern in recent years. TBE risk areas in Europe are Switzerland and southern Germany where there are popular caminos, and areas further to the East and Southeast that are less popular for camino walking.As far as know there is no vaccine for Lyme disease.
Right. There is even an advert going on in our media at the moment. I will ask about it my doctor today. Better be safe than sorry. Thanks for the topicThe vaccination is a protection against TBE (FSME in German), not against Lyme disease/borreliosis.
Unless you have a handy freezer in your rucksack that's a bit difficultI recently saw a science programme here that said you should never pull ticks out...the slogan was freeze don't squeeze
I found an Australian webpage discussing this atI recently saw a science programme here that said you should never pull ticks out...the slogan was freeze don't squeeze
Spain has other tick borne disease, sand fly diseases, flea diseasesThe vaccination is a protection against TBE (FSME in German), not against Lyme disease/borreliosis. Different diseases but same tick in Europe. There is no known cure for TBE. It has become a considerable public health concern in recent years. TBE risk areas in Europe are Switzerland and southern Germany where there are popular caminos, and areas further to the East and Southeast that are less popular for camino walking.
Spain is not a risk area for TBE and as far as Lyme disease is concerned, the risk is limited, as far as I can tell from maps for current risk areas. I’m not even sure whether the Camino Francés is considered as a high risk area for Lyme. In any case, not a lot of high grass to walk through on the CF. Awareness is good, of course, but so is being realistic.
please understand the tick ONLY HAS TO BREAK YOUR SKIN to cause disease. Where folks are getting “24” hour attachment is just innaccurateAs far as know there is no vaccine for Lyme disease. I would be the first one to get it. I also live in a tick populated area and I am almost paranoid about it. My dog has a special anti-tick collar which seems to be effective. Yet it still managed to bring four of those little $@%! back home. Four I am aware of. A comforting thought is the speed of the virus transfer though. 24 hours or more. So a thorough body check and ideally a high pressure shower should do. Worst is to let it spend a night in your arms. Terryfing thing is that not so many years ago I wouldn't even know what tick was. There were no ticks at all here.
Never ever freeze!!!!Unless you have a handy freezer in your rucksack that's a bit difficultThe important point is that you should not grab the tick with your fingers and pull because that squeezes the tick and can empty its contents into the bite wound. The tick removing gadgets all work in much the same way, you slide them unerneath the body of the tick and then lever the head out of your skin without squeezing the body. I don't have data available so I can't say whether freezing would be better or not, but using a tick remover is reckoned to be pretty effective.
Whatever method you use you should still be aware that there is a small risk of catching Lyme or another tick-borne disease and if you feel unwell within 2 or 3 weeks you should se a doctor and tell them that you were bitten by a tick.
The American vaccine for Lyme disease did not work against Lyme disease, but actually gave people Lyme disease and so they discontinued it. Known factThere is a vaccine for dogs but currently not for humans, although there was a human vaccine available in the 1990/early 2000s. It only worked well for the American strain of Lyme. Unfortunately it was the victim of anti-vaccine scaremongering, full explanation here.
The incredibly frustrating reason there’s no Lyme disease vaccine
Your dog can get vaccinated for Lyme. You cannot.www.vox.com
The 24 hours estimate for a 10% infection rate is for contracting Lyme disease from deer ticks. The rate can be higher if the tick was previously attached to another host. Longer attachment times will increase the rate. These are just estimates and, in my opinion, probably really only useful for keeping someone who was bitten from worrying too much. Infection rates for other ticks and/or diseases will vary.Spain has other tick borne disease, sand fly diseases, flea diseases
please understand the tick ONLY HAS TO BREAK YOUR SKIN to cause disease. Where folks are getting “24” hour attachment is just innaccurate
No, it didn't. that was the main part of the scaremongering.The American vaccine for Lyme disease did not work against Lyme disease, but actually gave people Lyme disease and so they discontinued it. Known fact
There is a fair bit of evidence that the longer the tick is attached, the higher the risk of infection. that's because when it first bites it is mostly taking in your blood, when it gets full it is more likely to regurgitate some of its contents into the wound along with any bacteria that it is carrying. Yes, it is possible that you will be infected within moments and if you know you've been bitten you should certainly bear that in mind if you develop flu-like symptoms within a couple of weeks, but the evidence says that is highly unlikely.please understand the tick ONLY HAS TO BREAK YOUR SKIN to cause disease. Where folks are getting “24” hour attachment is just innaccurate
Just in time — I can get one delivered before I leave! Having had a LOT of ticks on the Olvidado, and just reading that @VN got one on the Vasco where I will start, I think it is a very good idea. Once when I was alone on the Olvidado, in Cistierna, I had a tick in my back. A woman at the hotel sent me to the local health center, after she tried to remove it with tweezers and wasn’t sure she had. The doctor checked it out and gave me a prescription for antibiotics. She told me to start the medicine the second I got a fever. Luckily, none came.I came upon a tick removal device on a new product page of a magazine. It can be attached to a keyring. It is called a Tickkey. More information at http://tickkey.com/
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There was a thread about ticks that ended badly a while ago and I'm (please) NOT wanting to resurrect the topics that cased that argument.
But I just noticed this story in the news and think it's wise that we as pilgrims be aware of it:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ntain-rare-outbreak-of-fatal-tick-borne-fever
It's certainly not something to freak out about, but at the same time it's something to take seriously...
From the article.
"The 62-year-old man, who died on 25 August in Madrid’s Gregorio Marañón hospital, is thought to have contracted the fever after being bitten by a tick while walking in the countryside in the Castilla-Léon region of Spain."
Digging a little, I found that he'd been walking near Avila.
So if you're on a remote Camino (especially on the Sureste around there) and plan on bashing through the bushes, please take the same precautions as you would if you were in an area where there's' Lyme disease. Reliable information about that can be found here.
Are there any up to date statistics on the prevalence of reported tick encounters on the Camino, specifically the wide and well groomed trails that most of it encompasses. Just so individuals can have some context and react accordingly to their own concerns... I’ve scanned as far back as 2017 on this thread, and it seems far and few between.
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