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Yes, amazingly just a moment ago. So Praza da Quintana means 'Square of the Square'? I am assuming that 'praça' has the same meaning as praza and plaza. I would not wish to doubt the tourist office of Santiago, but I would like to see some etymology. How do they get from 'quinta' (country house) to 'quintana' (open square)?Have you seen this?
Plaza de la Quintana | Web Oficial de Turismo de Santiago de Compostela y sus Alrededores
“Quintana” es el equivalente de “praça”, y ambas palabras designaban en la terminología medieval a los espacios abiertos de uso público. La Quintana lo fue por excelencia, acotada por la cabecera de la Catedral , el monasterio fundacional, el cementerio de canónigos y la primera casa...www.santiagoturismo.com
Interestingly, puzzlingly and frustratingly!interestingly, web dictionaries of gallego do not have the explanation for 'quintana'. there are, however, several explanations for 'quinta', and here (incl. a bottle of beer!).
I'm impressed! How did you come to think of that? It's quite an attractive possibility - the square where jousting took place -- but it's not one I've seen before. doesn't mean it's wrong, though.Perhaps you should look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintain_(jousting)
It offers a possible etymology too.
Thank you for the praise. ;-)I'm impressed! How did you come to think of that? It's quite an attractive possibility - the square where jousting took place --
At least the RAE believes that the word exists! I was struck by the translation of 'Caserío en el campo o en una aldea.' as 'A hamlet in the countryside or in a village', which I realise is a computer translation, but how can a hamlet be in a village? I mean, a hamlet is a village, sort of. So I looked 'caserio' up in a proper printed-on-paper dictionary. It means 'group of houses, hamlet, settlement; country house, farm-house'. Which helps in translating 'Caserío en el campo o en una aldea.' But how can a word mean one house or a group of houses? It looks like 'Square of the square' is favourite. 'Burial ground' seems unlikely.The definitions for quintana according to RAE are:
1. f. Una de las puertas, vías o plazas de los campamentos romanos, en las que se vendían víveres.
2. f. Ast. Caserío en el campo o en una aldea.
3. f. Ast. Espacio situado delante de una casa o de varias.
4. f. desus. plaza.
(from deepl translator
1. f. One of the gates, roads or squares of the Roman camps, where foodstuffs were sold.
2. f. (Asturias) . A hamlet in the countryside or in a village.
3. f. (Asturias). A space in front of a house or several houses.
4. f. (not in use) . square)
Hope this might be of help!
Well, as they say, Your guess is as good as mine.The word does also mean a period of five days, or a set of five, and so on. By extension weekdays ?? (pure guess)
"Manor" can mean a neighborhood (in informal speech) or a stately home.But how can a word mean one house or a group of houses?
Perhaps it strikes you as odd because you're repeating the same English word (which is denuded of the context of the original word), which whereas "quintana" may have carried the sense of a plaza where produce was sold. That might give it a significance closer to "marketplace" than merely "square." I can conceive of a marketplace becoming known as "the square of the marketplace" or "the marketplace square."It looks like 'Square of the square' is favourite. '
And while I'm on this riff, a visitor to said manor might refer to it as a "pile," in the sense of a large monumental building.... not to be confused with "pile" in the sense of a messy heap of things."Manor" can mean a neighborhood (in informal speech) or a stately home.
And to further expand our views about quintana: A list of place names in northern Spain, grouped into names of Arab origin, of Latin-Romance origin, and unknown origin, in Anexo 3: Toponimia de introducción Mozárabe en la Gallaecia. The "quint-" place names start with Quinta and end with Quintelas. This author gives a definition that even deepl.com hilariously translates as one-fifth of the booty given to the lord of the host. There is a monstrously long footnote that goes with it. I haven't deciphered it yet. Gallaecia, btw, is not Galicia. Gallaecia includes Galicia, northern Portugal, Asturias and Leon (province).And there is more.
And to further expand our views about quintana: A list of place names in northern Spain, grouped into place names of Arab origin, of Latin-Romance origin, and unknown origin, in Anexo 3: Toponimia de introducción Mozárabe en la Gallaecia. The "quint-" place names start with Quinta and end with Quintelas. This author gives a definition that even deepl.com hilariously translates as one-fifth of the booty given to the lord of the host. There is a monstrously long footnote that goes with it. I haven't deciphered it yet. Gallaecia, btw, is not Galicia. Gallaecia includes Galicia, northern Portugal, Asturias and Leon (province).
Edited to add: I took a peek at the footnote. So this fifth is not the familiar medieval tithe which I know as a tenth but apparently something else. From the footnote: Chalmeta (1994) and Oliver Asín (1974) have contributed to revisit the subject of the distribution of land by the occupator and victor of war. Quintus or quintus or quinta parte does not appear as a toponym in France and Italy, but it does in Gallacia and Al Ándalus, as we have already seen. The Arabic-Islamic jums was previously applied with the specific Latin-Visigothic-Hispanic tradition without major problems. It is the quintu(m) practised as "the fifth part of the hereditary goods that, as a left-over from Gothic law, was considered as a share of land for free disposal and used in pious works" (Álvarez Maurín -1994-, in turn from Floriano -1949-). We can also associate Quintas and derivatives to necropolises and low imperial villas (Quintana Redonda, Soria), that is, Quintas to villae. And of course the codifying jums or khums of the Muslim victor.
I don't remember having heard of jums. It means literally 'one fifth' and refers to the required religious obligation of any Muslims to pay one-fifth of their acquired wealth from certain sources toward specified causes.
For sure, some substance or other is involved.Is there any substance in what I overheard?
Boring stories for touristsI overheard a guide talking about a tunnel under the square from the convent (San Paio de Antealtares) to the Cathedral. As 'proof' of this, he mentioned that there were grilles visible in the riser of a row of steps. At night, he said, the tunnel was lit and the light could be seen from outside, through the grilles
I've read the first link and looked at the second. Both interesting.Boring stories for tourists. I find the real stories more interesting, as told in Lo que la Quintana esconde. But then I like Gothic more than Baroque. Don't forget to click on El Secreto de A Quintana to see the sketches.
The Quintana cemetery is described as either the city's cemetery or a cemetery for the members of the cathedral chapter. Google for something like "cementerio de los canónigos" Quintana for some solid info. Not the only former Santiago cemetery. There was also the cemetery of the pilgrims and the Bonaval cemetery, both now landscaped areas.
It would be a huge niggle for me. Cemetery of the Living sounds like a Stephen King novel.One tiny niggle, though. How do you explain "Quintana dos Vivos"?
Wow!And I would want to know ...
Language, accurate as well as meaningful translation, Middle Ages, Roman history, and plenty of time on my hands - a mix that is hard to resist. Looking at old maps and trying to decipher them was fun. The area directly around the cathedral in Santiago underwent so many changes: an archbishop's palace was built, torn down and a new one erected on the other side; a large monastery with several buildings and cloisters was built, had to make way for the expansion of the cathedral building and had to erect new buildings and new cloisters a few dozens of metres or so further away; people were buried in all sorts of locations in and very close to the cathedral; passages appeared between buildings or were closed; cemeteries came and went. The area now known as Quintana wasn't static, it shrank, was built over, was cleared of buildings, expanded.your curiosity
Or the square/marketplace of the living since the dead don’t shop!"Manor" can mean a neighborhood (in informal speech) or a stately home.
Perhaps it strikes you as odd because you're repeating the same English word (which is denuded of the context of the original word), which whereas "quintana" may have carried the sense of a plaza where produce was sold. That might give it a significance closer to "marketplace" than merely "square." I can conceive of a marketplace becoming known as "the square of the marketplace" or "the marketplace square."
Pedants may say that "marketplace square" is redundant / tautologous, since what else would a marketplace be if not a square ... but sure enough, by searching on Google I turned up some apartments for sale in Marketplace Square, Atlanta, GA:
https://www.apartments.com/marketplace-square-atlanta-ga/90f5qz5/
Etimología de quintana - definición, significado y concepto
Definición de quintana, etimología de quintana. Qué es, concepto o significado; descripción, historia, formación y origen de la palabra quintana. Qué tipo de palabra es. Aproximación de acuerdo a la RAE.definiciona.com
To translate is to betray, as the saying goes ("Traduttore Traditore"). It can be tricky to convey the flavor of a historic or culturally loaded word in a different language. In this case we're dealing with a proper noun, denuded of context ...
A bottle of beer is "un quinto", not "una quinta" and it's so called because it's roughly a fifth of a litre.interestingly, web dictionaries of gallego do not have the explanation for 'quintana'. there are, however, several explanations for 'quinta', and here (incl. a bottle of beer!).
A bottle of beer small. The bigger one is called "tercio".A bottle of beer is "un quinto", not "una quinta" and it's so called because it's roughly a fifth of a litre.
Wendy after reading the above it seems you have answered the questions surrounding the living and the dead - church atrium for the living - cemetery for the deadThe Dicionario de Dicionarios, which is a kind of search engine that searches through a bunch of different Galego dictionaries, yields five entries for the word "quintana". One is the country house definition, and the other four all say that it's the part of an atrium of a church in front of the main entranceway, and that it was often used as a cemetery.
Here are the definitions given.
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