Language difficulties.

[JesperK]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.
Having walked several caminos it still surprises me how few spanish speak english. Even in Portugal I met several portuguese that could speak more than just portuguese.
In Finisterra with so many daily "tourists/pilgrims" it's often still necessary with handsignals, smartphone translations etc etc. I speak danish, english, german, hebrew and russian but I don't demand that other people master several languages. Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

 

[Kiwi-family]

You might also be surprised at how many English speakers speak nothing else!

 

[Pafayac]

Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

Now they are learning other languages (mainly english), but the learning of languages is not always very well done.
In Spain like in France, younger people speak more english than older because they had the opportunity to travel.
What about the US: do you think that many citizen of US do speak another language than english ?

 

[JesperK]

Now they are learning other languages (mainly english), but the learning of languages is not always very well done.
In Spain like in France, younger people speak more english than older because they had the opportunity to travel.
What about the US: do you think that many citizen of US do speak another language than english ?

Not really. They're generally just as bad.

 

[Pelegrin]

In Galicia: English and Galician. Same in other regions with a second language co-official ( Basque and Catalan).

 

[JesperK]

You might also be surprised at how many English speakers speak nothing else!

Well - I've travelled a lot in my life and know that many people tend to stick to their own language instead of learning a new. It's quite disappointing.

 

[Pafayac]

In Galicia: English and Galician. Same in other regions with a second language co-official ( Basque and Catalan).

At the Tourism Office of San Sebastian, when I went there to ask for mass hours, the woman asked me: I guess that you do not look for a bilingual mass ?
First I thought that in summer there were mass for tourists, spanish-english, or even spanish-french, but soon I realized it was spanish-basque !
Indeed basque cannot be understood if you did not learn it, because it is a very strange language, which does not belong to the same family than spanish, english or french...

 

[Pelegrin]

At the Tourism Office of San Sebastian, when I went there to ask for mass hours, the woman asked me: I guess that you do not look for a bilingual mass ?
First I thought that in summer there were mass for tourists, spanish-english, or even spanish-french, but soon I realized it was spanish-basque !
Indeed basque cannot be understood if you did not learn it, because it is a very strange language, which does not belong to the same family than spanish, english or french...

Yes, Basque is not Indoeuropean. I speak Spanish and Galician and therefore can understand some Catalan but only a few phrases in Basque that I learnt.

 

[Lindsay53]

As a native English speaker I am in awe of the language abilities of those who are not.

 

[Pelegrin]

In Spain most people under forty should know some basic English but not enough to have a conversation. So that they refuse to speak in English just in case.

 

[Kathar1na]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.

Multilingualism can be a thorny topic in individual discussions, and it is most certainly a thorny topic on the political level in a number of countries in Europe, and that includes Spain. Note that it's not about learning or knowing English, it is about learning other languages.

When we had dinner for the first time in the hotel in Roncesvalles I was surprised that the serving staff could not communicate in either English or French. I was also surprised later on, along the Camino Frances, on a few occasions when local people with whom I had a casual conversation had conversational French or Dutch or German; it turned out they all had lived and worked in France, Switzerland, Germany or the Netherlands at one point in their life.

As others have pointed out, it is a question of the generation to which a person belongs and also a question of foreign language teaching policies. The EU's statistics office Eurostat does regular surveys and there's a link below - worth reading the text and not just the graphics. In some EU countries foreign language skills are nowadays already taught at primary school level - and that includes apparently Spain. Also note how the concept of foreign language and mother tongue is defined for these Eurostat surveys, in particular in countries or regions with more than one official language, as it is the case in Spain, and remember that Russian is/was a frequently taught foreign language in several EU countries.

I think that one can say that foreign language skills are not taught with the aim of enabling people to communicate with others on travel or to enlarge one's cultural horizon. They are taught because it is deemed to be good for the workforce in general, for purposes of trade and commerce. Some European countries perceive to have a greater need for this than others.

Interestingly, I see in the linked surveys that "all or nearly all (99–100 %) primary school pupils in Cyprus, Malta, Spain, Poland and Austria were learning English as a foreign language in 2021". On a few occasions along the Camino Frances, parents were eager for their school age children to speak English with me. This is of course ever so embarrassing for children. I tried to make it easy for them.

Foreign language skills statistics - Statistics Explained

EU statistics provide information on the number of foreign languages known and the levels of command/proficiency by age, sex, level of educational attainment, labour status and occupation.

ec.europa.eu

Foreign language learning statistics - Statistics Explained

EU statistics, focusing on foreign languages learned in primary and secondary schools.

ec.europa.eu

 

[dbier]

I am not multilingual by any stretch ( although at one time I could apologize and say thank you in 13 languages - might as well learn what I'll use).

I have an ear for music and for patterns, so learning some terms isn't hard.

But bottom line, if I'm traveling outside the US, and particularly if I'm a pilgrim, I consider it my job to communicate. Not theirs.

 

[Kathar1na]

I am not multilingual by any stretch ( although at one time I could apologize and say thank you in 13 languages - might as well learn what I'll use).
I have an ear for music and for patterns, so learning some terms isn't hard.
But bottom line, if I'm traveling outside the US, and particularly if I'm a pilgrim, I consider it my job to communicate. Not theirs.

Multilingual in this context simply means that you know more than one language sufficiently well to communicate beyond saying Thank you, hello, goodbye and Where are the toilets.

@JesperK who apparently hails from Denmark made a valid observation about being in Spain that I have also made and he asks a valid question: "Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and [official regional languages]?"

I was taught two live foreign languages at school (French and English) and one dead one (Latin). My daughter was taught French as a foreign language from the last year of kindergarten and German as a foreign langue in secondary school. It would be interesting to learn more about Spain in this context.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I do not speak Spanish except for a few basic words and sentences. When I've needed to ask what I considered to be an important question while on Camino, the majority of older folks didn't understood English. I eventually learned to ask young people, and they almost always have been able to help me. I've noticed in the last couple of years though that the older generations often like to use google translate.

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

What about the US: do you think that many citizen of US do speak another language than english ?

Not really. They're generally just as bad.

Yes they speak Spanish, Tagalog, Vietnamese, Mandarin, Japanese, Hindi...I could go on. I'm a US citizen, and speak Indonesian conversationally, and get by with Spanish.

 

[Turga]

it still surprises me how few spanish speak english.

That's one of the things that I like about Spain - but I guess it is about to change before too long.

 

[gabethegirl]

I've had this conversation with some of my local Spanish friends and the consensus has been that older generations have not had as many opportunities to learn English in their schools. It's much more prevalent in schools these days, but it hasn't been until the last 20 years that more English has been taught.

Also, it can be a matter of not having had the opportunity to practice in real-world settings regularly. Like many multi-lingual individuals, a lot of progression or even just maintaining another language comes from active use of the language. My local friends here in Santiago may not use English enough to speak it confidently or understand it.

In the USA students are required 2 years of a language, but that doesn't mean they leave being able to speak it fluently or to maintain it. Just some personal experiences and thoughts from living abroad.

 

[Kathar1na]

Perhaps, instead of focussing on our own foreign language skills, we ought to focus for once on the foreign language skills and foreign language teaching in the Camino countries - Spain and France.

I already mentioned some encounters with locals on the Camino Frances in Spain who knew conversational French, Dutch and German because they had worked in France, Switzerland, and Germany, and, in one case as I now remember, in England (we spoke a mixture of Spanish and English but mainly English which is normal in such cases because it was the common language that both of us knew best).

There were several occasions where parents (actually always the mum) were keen on their school age kids practising a bit of English with me.

In SJPP, I asked the youngish taxi driver about Basque - he told me that in his region they had bilingual schools (French and Basque) if I remember correctly but I don't remember details.

We don't have many Spanish forum members here. I am wondering - Galician and Spanish, and Catalan and Spanish, are related, unlike Basque and Spanish. I guess that the curriculum in these regions is up to the regional government and it is not prescribed by the national government?

 

[JesperK]

Thank you everybody - I think I got what I wanted.

 

[J Willhaus]

I think it often depends on the employer's expectations.if you are a server in Madrid or work in a hotel which caters to groups of tourists, more than one language may be required. In a small Mom and Pop albergue, store, or restaurant, maybe not a requirement.

In the US it may vary by region, but language is not a requirement in high school or college any more in many regions. It is not here in Wyoming where I live and isn't for my Grandchildren who live in other US states. When I attended college in the early 1980's my program required 16 credit hours of one language or 20 hours of two.

Now as a busy adult and near retirement adult, I take a Spanish lesson once a week and focus on improving my language skills. On the Camino it is nice to be able to talk a little with people and find out about their beautiful country and their lives. My husband never learned another language as a young person, but works really hard now at 72 to learn Spanish despite hearing impairment.

As hospitaleros, we've had older Spaniards bring along a son or grandson to help with the translation of a difficult issue like repair of the washing machine and my husband has occasionally had the shopkeeper bring out the teenager to inquire "Where is your wife today" when shopping for vegetables.

In any case, I am grateful to be able to communicate in whatever language. I am grateful for the emergence of translation apps. I am grateful that I can walk a Camino and part of the experience is communicating.

 

[John Sikora]

I find the same but am not disappointed in their lack of English understanding but I am very disappointed in my ability to learn and speak Spanish. I've done 5 Caminos and have a basic command of written Spanish but an woefully lacking in my ability to converse. I'm missing out on so many nuances and stories. But, such is life, and at 74 I'm just glad I am both above ground and walking over it.

 

[t2andreo]

Part of the reason about why relatively little English is spoken in Spain has to do with TV programming. In Portugal, after the "family hour" (say, beginning around 1900) there are many programs from the UK, Canada, Australia, and the US, all broadcast in English, but with Portuguese subtitles.

This is not the case in Spain. In my experience traveling and living across Europe over 40 or so years, I have noticed a correlation between access to English programming on TV and the level of English uptake, at all ages. More recently, the explosion of the internet and global access to - well everything - also accelerated the incidence of spoken English especially among younger folks.

But on the Iberian peninsula, the portuguese definitely speak more English, even if sparsely, then in Spain.

When I lived near Antwerp, Belgium for two years, about 15 years ago, the TV channels coming from the Flemish region all had evening English programs. I could follow my favorite programs from the US on a regular basis. There were Dutch / Flemish subtitles, but I didn't even see them after a while.

Conversely, in the Wallonian region, in the south of Belgium, French was the predominant language spoken. Their TV programming was only in French, without subtitles - at that time. In my experience there were far fewer people who could or would speak English, except perhaps some students who were forced to take it at school, or perhaps had parents who compelled it at home.

The official policy (unless it has changed) across Belgium, is that children learn in high Dutch or French depending on which region they live in. Flemish was regarded as a dialect, to be learned at home. In the fourth grade, they switched to the other main national language, from Dutch to French, or from French to Dutch. However, I was reliably informed that the local schools authorities in the south (Wallonia) do not enforce this policy.

In the eight year of elementary studies, all students are supposed to start mandartory English lessons. Again, I was reliably informed that this works very well in the north (Flanders) but not so well in the south (Wallonia).

I have friends with children in the Flanders region. Their children were speaking broken, basic English at home by the time they were 10 or 11 years old. This was a couple of years BEFORE they would be compelled to take English lessons in the eighth grade. Parenthetically, this was as good as my Dutch got when I lived there -despite daily online lessons. I also have two friends who are English teachers in the Flemish school system who have validated these observations.

As a result - and as a model for what we see in Spain and Portugal, the level of ability to speak English will vary. Educational policy and entertainment programming have an effect.

In France and Italy, the same policy holds, regarding evening TV programming. In my experience as a volunteer at the Pilgrim Office, I noted the same correlation regarding TV programming and ability to speak at least some English.

All this said, let us remember that most of us native English speakers have little to brag about. In fact, there was a joke along the Camino some years back, that went like this: "What to you call a person who only speaks one language?" - - - Punch line: "An American." Silly but mostly true in my experience.

At age 65, after three Caminos, and two years as a volunteer, I decided to do something about that. I have been doing daily Spanish lessons every day on Duolingo.com for the past 2,100 consecutive days - passed that landmark yesterday as a matter of fact.

I enforce this practice when I am traveling (app on iPhone) in the hospital, or home. I have not missed one day, to do at least five to 10 mintues daily. My standard practice is to spend an hour or more daily practicing.

I would never claim to be fluent. But I can hold simple conversations, ask for something, give cogent answers, express feelings, shop, explain a problem, etc. In other words, I can communicate effectively, albeit not fluently. Personally, I regard it as a common courtesy to try to speak the language of the place you are visiting.

Even when I first traveled on business some 40 years ago, I always obtained a Berlitz book and CD to practice the basics before getting on a plane. It is my way of showing respect to the place I was traveling to.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[LTfit]

In the US it may vary by region, but language is not a requirement in high school or college any more in many regions. It is not here in Wyoming where I live and isn't for my Grandchildren who live in other US states. When I attended college in the early 1980's my program required 16 credit hours of one language or 20 hours of two.

This is quite shocking to hear. Do have any idea why? Lack of funds for foreign language teachers?

I grew up on the east coast of the U.S. and during the 70's and 80's a foreign language was required. Most middle and high schools offered only Spanish or French but my public high school also offered German and Russian.

In private liberal arts colleges a language was also required although I don't remember how many credits as I already was majoring in Romance languages (Spanish and French).

My personal theory regarding the far superior English ability amongst the Portugese versus the Spanish and French is because the Portuguese do not dub their movies and tv shows but rather show them in the original language, just like the Dutch who use subtitles.

Netflix by the way is a great way to improve your language ability. I regularly watch Spanish or French series and movies.

@t2andreo I see that our posts crossed with much of the same info

 

[FranciscusPut]

Now they are learning other languages (mainly english), but the learning of languages is not always very well done.
In Spain like in France, younger people speak more english than older because they had the opportunity to travel.
What about the US: do you think that many citizen of US do speak another language than english ?

Spanish maybe, the second most spoken language in the world, after chinees

 

[Carl Remarx]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.
Having walked several caminos it still surprises me how few spanish speak english. Even in Portugal I met several portuguese that could speak more than just portuguese.
In Finisterra with so many daily "tourists/pilgrims" it's often still necessary with handsignals, smartphone translations etc etc. I speak danish, english, german, hebrew and russian but I don't demand that other people master several languages. Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

You realize you’re in Spain, right?

 

[J Willhaus]

This is quite shocking to hear. Do have any idea why? Lack of funds for foreign language teachers?

I grew up on the east coast of the U.S. and during the 70's and 80's a foreign language was required. Most middle and high schools offered only Spanish or French but my public high school also offered German and Russian.

In private liberal arts colleges a language was also required although I don't remember how many credits as I already was majoring in Romance languages (Spanish and French).

My personal theory regarding the far superior English ability amongst the Portugese versus the Spanish and French is because the Portuguese do not dub their movies and tv shows but rather show them in the original language, just like the Dutch who use subtitles.

Netflix by the way is a great way to improve your language ability. I regularly watch Spanish or French series and movies.

@t2andreo I see that our posts crossed with much of the same info

There is a much bigger emphasis on STEM now (science, technology, engineering, math). Less emphasis on philosophy, humanities, arts, etc. This is true even at the university level. Our modern languages program here at my university struggles, although Spanish and Arabic have relatively strong programs. Many people in this region speak Spanish and our ROTC program spearheaded the Arabic program.

None of my grandkids take a language in school. Some university programs do still require or strongly encourage Spanish like criminal justice or business. It is also popular in the health sciences, but not required.

I have some Latina students who don't even speak Spanish, which is a shame in my opinion.

 

[Sedona11]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.
Having walked several caminos it still surprises me how few spanish speak english. Even in Portugal I met several portuguese that could speak more than just portuguese.
In Finisterra with so many daily "tourists/pilgrims" it's often still necessary with handsignals, smartphone translations etc etc. I speak danish, english, german, hebrew and russian but I don't demand that other people master several languages. Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

Interesting observation. Here in the US very few speak other language and when they do, they are pressure to speak ONLY English that is not even the official language. You can continue to use your hands to communicate or learn the language yourself.

 

[Kathar1na]

You realize you’re in Spain, right?

I wish we would drop this. This is not about the foreign tourist who wonders why the locals don't speak his language.

@Carl Remarx, you do realise that the OP's mother tongue is not English? It's Danish. He doesn't wonder why not more Spanish people speak Danish but he is curious to learn more about the acquisition of foreign languages in the Spanish education system.

He wanted to know whether we know which languages are being taught in Spanish schools. I dare say that we on this forum know little about it. He wanted to know whether pupils are taught only Spanish and/or any of the official regional languages of Spain - which are Galician, Catalan and Basque. I dare say again that we on this forum know little about it. But we could learn something about it ...

 

[Carl Remarx]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.
Having walked several caminos it still surprises me how few spanish speak english. Even in Portugal I met several portuguese that could speak more than just portuguese.
In Finisterra with so many daily "tourists/pilgrims" it's often still necessary with handsignals, smartphone translations etc etc. I speak danish, english, german, hebrew and russian but I don't demand that other people master several languages. Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

This will help you understand far better:

Google Wikipedia

Portugal–United Kingdom relations​

 

[Carl Remarx]

I wish we could drop this. This is not about the foreign tourist who wonders why the locals don't speak his or her language.

@Carl Remarx, you do realise that the OP's mother tongue is not English. It's Danish. He doesn't wonder why not more Spanish people speak Danish. He is curious to learn more about the acquisition of foreign languages in the Spanish education system. He wanted to know whether we know what languages are being taught in Spanish schools? I dare say that we on this forum know little about it. He wanted to know whether they are taught only Spanish and any of the official regional languages in Spain - which are Galician, Catalan and Basque. I dare say again that we on this forum know little about it.

I do. Understand that. Humor, like salt makes everything better and more interesting.

 

[Kathar1na]

Ha, I remember another small memory of second (and more) language use in Spain.

It was on the train, most likely between Madrid and Palencia/Fromista. For a reason that I don't remember - perhaps because I apologised for my poor Spanish skills - the conductor who checked our tickets on the train proudly told us that he speaks Spanish, Basque, Galician and Catalan and that he uses all four languages nearly every day. We duly signalled our appreciation for his linguistic skills.

Luckily, he did not ask us or me about our knowledge and use of languages in our daily lives when we are not in Spain.

 

[TexasIndia]

At the Tourism Office of San Sebastian, when I went there to ask for mass hours, the woman asked me: I guess that you do not look for a bilingual mass ?
First I thought that in summer there were mass for tourists, spanish-english, or even spanish-french, but soon I realized it was spanish-basque !
Indeed basque cannot be understood if you did not learn it, because it is a very strange language, which does not belong to the same family than spanish, english or french...

When I went to biligual Mass in San Sebastian the Euscadia was cast on the wall with a Spanish translation,but most was in Spanish.

 

[lalaone]

I’d agree that commerce and diplomacy are big drivers in the US. Among Americans I know who pursued foreign language study without familial ties or scholastic requirements, the age groups map almost exactly to global events in those spheres….
Over 60 – Russian
50s – Japanese
40s – Arabic (me)
20s and 30s – Chinese

I’ve also noticed in Spain and France that foreign television shows are often dubbed. That is a dream for an English speaker trying to learn the language. I’d never considered the other side of the equation, how it might make English less familiar than it might otherwise be to non-native speakers. An excellent point. In France at least, historically there has been an emphasis on preserving the language, itself a powerful expression of culture. I wonder if Spain might be (or have been) somewhat similar – preserving the standard form (plus dialects, post-Franco perhaps?). I don’t know, but I could imagine how each country's concerns might have influenced drivers in foreign language study and how those might be changing over time.

 

[AnaRosario]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.
Having walked several caminos it still surprises me how few spanish speak english. Even in Portugal I met several portuguese that could speak more than just portuguese.
In Finisterra with so many daily "tourists/pilgrims" it's often still necessary with handsignals, smartphone translations etc etc. I speak danish, english, german, hebrew and russian but I don't demand that other people master several languages. Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

They are a pretty proud people and expect you to at least try to speak their language, they will snub and snicker, and depending on your anxiety will be accommodating

 

[Kathar1na]

I’ve also noticed in Spain and France that foreign television shows are often dubbed.

I've never looked into the reasons why movies and TV series are subtitled or dubbed. I think it has to do with economy of scale and also with viewers' preferences. It may have to do with the prestige of a language compared to another language - but as I said earlier, a thorny topic .

In European countries in general, British and American movies and TV series are dubbed in markets or countries with a large population (for example France, Spain, Germany/Austria) and subtitled in markets or countries with a relatively small population. But I don't think that this applies to other foreign language movies and TV series - I think that they are subtitled in both types of markets.

I still tend to think that it is the education system and their curricula that are the major drive behind foreign language acquisition as well as economic needs and advantages later in life. Subtitled TV series and movies presumably help to improve proficiency but not acquisition as such - but that is just my gut feeling.

 

[Kathar1na]

preserving the standard form (plus dialects, post-Franco perhaps?)

I've wondered about this, too ("post-Franco perhaps") but I really know nothing about changes and developments that are specific to Spain. BTW, and that's another thorny topic , let us not speak of dialects - they are languages.

What I can say, perhaps, based on my rather limited observations, is that in some European countries at least, foreign language acquisition has become more "democratic" and this may apply to Spain, too. It is no longer the privilege of those who go to privileged grammar schools and are destined for a privileged university education. It is for all pupils now, or at least that is the intention. Which is why there are moves to teach a foreign language early in a pupil's school career, i.e. already in primary school.

England (yes, I mean England and not the UK) is an exception. I don't follow developments very closely any longer but I vaguely remember that there was a major curriculum change about 20 years ago with the result that the requirements about teaching a foreign language in secondary school become much weaker than before.

 

[Fransisontheway]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.
Having walked several caminos it still surprises me how few spanish speak english. Even in Portugal I met several portuguese that could speak more than just portuguese.
In Finisterra with so many daily "tourists/pilgrims" it's often still necessary with handsignals, smartphone translations etc etc. I speak danish, english, german, hebrew and russian but I don't demand that other people master several languages. Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

A few years ago I started to learn Spanish because I wanted to walk a Camino with the possibility to speak a few simple words with the local people. I can say, they appreciate it very much and most of the time I can make clear in Spanish what I want. My mother language is Dutch. So for me it's no problem if they only speak Spanish (not some dialect).

 

[JCLima]

As a Portuguese, I would like to say that TV and movies being in English is not the reason why we can speak English, but it's an indication for how open we are to other languages
In order to learn a language, you need to do a lot more work than just watch TV

 

[JCLima]

In European countries in general, British and American movies and TV series are dubbed in markets or countries with a large population (for example France, Spain, Germany/Austria) and subtitled in markets or countries with a relatively small population. But I don't think that this applies to other foreign language movies and TV series - I think that they are subtitled in both types of markets.

In Portugal, they are all subtitled unless their target audience is kids that can't read

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I've wondered about this, too ("post-Franco perhaps") but I really know nothing about changes and developments that are specific to Spain. BTW, and that's another thorny topic , let us not speak of dialects - they are languages.

What I can say, perhaps, based on my rather limited observations, is that in some European countries at least, foreign language acquisition has become more "democratic" and this may apply to Spain, too. It is no longer the privilege of those who go to privileged grammar schools and are destined for a privileged university education. It is for all pupils now, or at least that is the intention. Which is why there are moves to teach a foreign language early in a pupil's school career, i.e. already in primary school.

England (yes, I mean England and not the UK) is an exception. I don't follow developments very closely any longer but I vaguely remember that there was a major curriculum change about 20 years ago with the result that the requirements about teaching a foreign language in secondary school become much weaker than before.

I know in Asturias, where I worked as a teaching assistant they teach both English and Asturian in primary school. We had many children from other regions and countries who didn't know any Asturian, so they benefited from these classes to integrate with their local friends. The standard of English generally is not high and for many teachers of English it isn't their strongest foreign language.

 

[lalaone]

Subtitled TV series and movies presumably help to improve proficiency but not acquisition as such - but that is just my gut feeling.

Excellent point and I agree. Something more like an aid to "immersion," definitely not acquisition or learning as such.

 

[Pelegrin]

I've wondered about this, too ("post-Franco perhaps") but I really know nothing about changes and developments that are specific to Spain. BTW, and that's another thorny topic , let us not speak of dialects - they are languages.

In Spain are considered languages: Spanish, Galician, Basque, Catalan, Astur- Leones and Aragonese. Everyone of those has their own dialects, for example: Andaluz ( Spanish), Eo- Naviego (Galician), Guipuzcuano ( Basque), Valenciano ( Catalan) and Extremeño ( Astur- Leones).

 

[Pelegrin]

I know in Asturias, where I worked as a teaching assistant they teach both English and Asturian in primary school. We had many children from other regions and countries who didn't know any Asturian, so they benefited from these classes to integrate with their local friends. The standard of English generally is not high and for many teachers of English it isn't their strongest foreign language.

I think that in Asturias there are some schools that teach Asturian but not all because is not obligatory. The Asturian is not co-official.

 

[Philtration]

EDITED
As a US citizen, I offer the old joke:

Speak 3 languages = trilingual
Speak 2 languages = bilingual
Speak 1 language = US citizen

I've been slaving away on Duolingo Spanish for several years and can meet basic communication needs. Conversation still eludes me but I continue to pound away at it. My old high school German is mostly rusted away.

 

[C clearly]

Speak 1 language = American

Sorry, but I think that you have unfairly claimed something that is more accurately attributed to native English speakers from any English-speaking country. Countries in the Americas have been populated with immigrants and therefore have large populations of people who speak other languages. The truth is that native English speakers can often avoid having to learn another language.

As a moderator, I'd like to point out that forum members should avoid making derogatory comments about any national or ethnic groups. Sometimes even indirect or mildly critical comments can touch on sensitivities. So far, the discussion is quite interesting and respectful, so let's keep it that way.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

In Spain are considered languages: Spanish, Galician, Basque, Catalan, Astur- Leones and Aragonese. Everyone of those has their own dialects, for example: Andaluz ( Spanish), Eo- Naviego (Galician), Guipuzcuano ( Basque), Valenciano ( Catalan) and Extremeño ( Astur- Leones).

Yikes, "the plot thickens"...

They are a pretty proud people and expect you to at least try to speak their language, they will snub and snicker, and depending on your anxiety will be accommodating

I have never had this happen to me when in Spain..

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Speak 1 language = American

I, unfortunately, only speak "American" English; of which I am not proud to say, as I wish I knew Spanish, or Italian in particular.
I did take German in grade school, but only recall the words Herr, Frau, Frauline, counting up to ten, and how to say "I can't find my overshoes/galoshes"; not very helpful should I ever visit Germany...which I have not. I don't appreciate beer, so their hugely popular Octoberfest isn't high on my bucket list.

 

[wynrich]

I´ve been studying and practicing Spanish diligently for quite a number of years and can do pretty well communicating although I know I make lots and lots of mistakes but luckily I don´t feel too self-conscious about that. At one hotel where I was staying in Galicia, the young woman who worked there (daughter of the owner) shyly told me that she was taking English classes, but she was too afraid to actually speak English to anyone because she didn´t want to make a mistake. I, of course, encouraged her not to worry about making mistakes as I´m sure her teacher does, too. But I don´t think I convinced her. I wonder how many young people learn English but are reluctant to actually use it.

 

[Kathar1na]

I think that in Asturias there are some schools that teach Asturian but not all because is not obligatory. The Asturian is not co-official.

Ah, @Pelegrin, you answered a question before I could ask it, following @Molly Cassidy's comments. Can you or Molly explain this a bit more?

You may have noticed that I only mentioned Spanish, Galician, Catalan and Basque in my earlier comments but not Asturian. In an earlier thread I had noticed that there are moves to give the Asturian language more visibility and a greater role in public life. So the languages with co-official status are Galician, Catalan and Basque but they have this status only in their region, i.e. Galicia, Catalonia and the Basque country? What does it mean in practical terms? Compulsory subject in schools? All regional laws are issued in Spanish and in the co-official language? Financial support for cultural activities like TV, radio, movies in the co-official language? Are there any prospects that Asturian will acquire the same status one day?

 

[VaughantownHiker]

Not really difficulties - but a curious question.
Having walked several caminos it still surprises me how few spanish speak english. Even in Portugal I met several portuguese that could speak more than just portuguese.
In Finisterra with so many daily "tourists/pilgrims" it's often still necessary with handsignals, smartphone translations etc etc. I speak danish, english, german, hebrew and russian but I don't demand that other people master several languages. Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

Disclaimer: the following is not an opinion about whether or not spaniards should be speaking english. I have traveled to spain six times now and during four of those visits, I’ve volunteered at Vaughantown, which is a week-long english immersion program for Spanish-speaking people. I’ve learned a lot about spain through my many conversations with my Vaughantown friends. What they have consistently told me is that while english has always been taught in school, it has been primarily reading and writing. That is changing now. Students are starting to learn conversational english. Also, in most of europe, english language movies and television programs are played in english but have subtitles in the local language. Not the same in Spain. Most programs are dubbed in spanish. In fact, a VT friend told me this visit that Spain is known to have the best voice dubbers in the world. Lots of practice I guess. So the dubbing creates another barrier to learning to speak and listen in english.

 

[Pelegrin]

Ah, @Pelegrin, you answered a question before I could ask it, following @Molly Cassidy's comments. Can you or Molly explain this a bit more?

You may have noticed that I only mentioned Spanish, Galician, Catalan and Basque in my earlier comments but not Asturian. In an earlier thread I had noticed that there are moves to give the Asturian language more visibility and a greater role in public life. So the languages with co-official status are Galician, Catalan and Basque but they have this status only in their region, i.e. Galicia, Catalonia and the Basque country? What does it mean in practical terms? Compulsory subject in schools? All regional laws are issued in Spanish and in the co-official language? Financial support for cultural activities like TV, radio, movies in the co-official language? Are there any prospects that Asturian will acquire the same status one day?

Catalan is co-official in Catalonia and Baleares islands. Its dialect Valenciano is co- official in Valencia region. Basque is co- official in Basque country and Northwest of Navarre. Galician only in Galicia. The local language is obligatory in school. Also is the language used by the the regional governments and regional public TVs in most cases.
The current regional government of Asturias wants to make co- official the Asturian but has strong difficulties to do it. The Asturian language has three variants: Central, Western and Eastern and there is also a Galician dialect between rivers Navia and Eo. The normative Asturian is based almost 100% on the central variant and the other people out of this variant totally reject learning normative Asturian. In Asturias less than 10% ( 80.000) still speak the central variant and around 20.000 Eo- Naviego ( Galician). Western and Eastern variants are almost extinct.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Ah, @Pelegrin, you answered a question before I could ask it, following @Molly Cassidy's comments. Can you or Molly explain this a bit more?

You may have noticed that I only mentioned Spanish, Galician, Catalan and Basque in my earlier comments but not Asturian. In an earlier thread I had noticed that there are moves to give the Asturian language more visibility and a greater role in public life. So the languages with co-official status are Galician, Catalan and Basque but they have this status only in their region, i.e. Galicia, Catalonia and the Basque country? What does it mean in practical terms? Compulsory subject in schools? All regional laws are issued in Spanish and in the co-official language? Financial support for cultural activities like TV, radio, movies in the co-official language? Are there any prospects that Asturian will acquire the same status one day?

I can't speak about the official rules, but there was certainly a big emphasis on teaching Asturian language and culture in the two primary schools where I worked. It was certainly widely spoken in the towns where I lived and worked. The teachers spoke it in the staffroom at work and the local children spoke it in the playground.

As an aside we had one child (a Moldovan girl) who had previously lived in the Basque country and I was told she didn't speak Castilian at all.

 

[Pelegrin]

As a curiousity, in Asturias there are.six different expresions to say "the milk" Most people say it in Spanish " la leche" but those who speak normative Asturian say " la lleche". which is feminine like in Spanish. Those who speak Western Asturian say " el cheite" which is masculin. And inside the Eo- Navia you could hear "el lleite", "el leite" and " o leite".

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Do anyone know what languages are being taught in spanish schools? Is it just "spanish" or/and dialects?

I recently spent a short time volunteering within Spain as a natural English language speaker working with Spanish teachers who teach English.

What they said on this subject is that English has been taught for some time in Spain but until recently it was taught more as an academic subject with little opportunity to speak English and as a result those Spanish people who learnt English some time ago are more proficient in written English than spoken English and many older people are too shy to speak English.

More recently the curriculum has changed and more emphasis is now placed on spoken English and so younger Spanish people are in general more interested in speaking English.

 

[bernhugo]

We have friends in Menorca. About 30 years ago we were there on holiday. I was talking to a young boy in a restaurant. He told me ,that at school they learned Menorquin, Spanish and English. all this at the age of 7 !
I think in many cases it is a lack of confidence. Encourage them and they do try.

 

[dbier]

As a follow on, in th US...the French I was taught at age 5 was not written. But we didn't use it outside of class.

There were no languages offered in my small high school, absolutely none in elementary, and my college degrees were in engineering and nursing. No requirement. And I tested out of English and American history and literature.

My sons, in the 2000s, were only offered languages (French, Spanish, Latin) in high school. Two years only. This was despite their hallway signs being in 6 languages (Arabic, Vietnamese, Japanese, and South Korean, i think - no Latin signs...). Again, not conversational. They weren't good students, so were not offered other opportunities any earlier. And they went to one of the top five public school districts in the NATION.

I expect we're fairly typical for Americans with no family link to another language. If you don't seek it out in your spare(!) time, you'll never hear another.

 

[Pelegrin]

As a curiousity, in Asturias there are.six different expresions to say "the milk" Most people say it in Spanish " la leche" but those who speak normative Asturian say " la lleche". which is feminine like in Spanish. Those who speak Western Asturian say " el cheite" which is masculin. And inside the Eo- Navia you could hear "el lleite", "el leite" and " o leite".

My first Camino was the Primitivo in 2013 and the purpose of doing it was to check the survival of Western Asturian. My first post to this Forum treated about it. This variant starts in Grado. I only found two people in Tineo who spoke that variant, the rest spoke a Spanish dialect. In Berducedo that is in the Galician speaking area only found one farmer who spoke the Galician dialect. Finally in Grandas many people spoke the Galician dialect.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Thanks, @JesperK for starting a very interesting thread. Some truly excellent information above - a few answers are even directly relevant to your question!

Mine will not be:
The ability to learn and use a language appropriately decreases with age according to many studies. From memory I think it's up until the age of seven you can become truly fluent, after that it gets harder. My son for example has two "mother tongues" as they say here in Germany - whichever he speaks, you would swear is his main language, accent and all. Because he learnt and practiced both from birth.
Others, like my late wife speak the language extremely well but always have a slight accent and occasionally make a mistake - when tired for example.

As others have commented above, opportunities to travel; (my personal theory too) an ear for music,; opportunity to learn; and the opportunity to practice in real world settings all played a role in her proficiency.

The one language joke I first heard many years ago, but with the English as the butt of the joke. It could equally have applied to us in New Zealand or of course the Australians. Canada, to their everlasting credit, not so. Speaking personally as a New Zealander I wish it was otherwise. I am exceptionally pleased and proud to see that New Zealand is finally starting to push towards learning Maori. It is after all one of our three official languages.

As a native English speaker I am in awe of the language abilities of those who are not.

I could not agree more. I would add that I am exceptionally grateful that others have learnt English so that I may communicate with them.

As a Portuguese, I would like to say that TV and movies being in English is not the reason why we can speak English, but it's an indication for how open we are to other languages
In order to learn a language, you need to do a lot more work than just watch TV

Again I could not agree more. I have been struggling to learn German and have just spent the last six months doing a full immersion course. Please note this is my second such and I have lived here for five years. I am now at the stage where I can converse with people, although I am extremely aware that I make many mistakes and miss most of the nuances of any conversation. This is finally the point for me in which TV can help - earlier, it was just noise. As for reading - thank goodness for Google translate!
Two years of learning a language at school a few hours a week is nothing more than a start. (But a valuable one nonetheless.) As a traveller to somewhere between 40 and 50 countries I always tried to learn please and thank you at worst, preferably somewhat more - but even that was always a hell of a struggle. Even the ability to speak just a few words of French or Spanish for example would have really helped in many of those lands.

The comments about Commerce and diplomacy definitely ring true, I believe the same emphasis was placed on the same languages in New Zealand over the years.
And as for the internet, my son is an avid gameplayer and constantly speaks with people all over the world. According to my son many have learnt /improved their English simply because they wish to play and many of the games are English based. ALL of the best English speakers in his class are game players.
And as to lack of confidence I've had personal experience with that... Amazing how feeding a few shots of alcohol to my Swedish friends dramatically improves their language proficiency !

 

[David Tallan]

In Spain like in France, younger people speak more english than older because they had the opportunity to travel.

That's interesting. I would have credited the Internet and it's undubbed/untranslated content as a greater driver. But that shows my own professional biases.

 

[lalaone]

The ability to learn and use a language appropriately decreases with age according to many studies. From memory I think it's up until the age of seven you can become truly fluent, after that it gets harder.

This was always my understanding as well. Recent studies, however, place the critical window as far as age 16-18. That is encouraging for teachers and students alike.

 

[OZAJ]

What about the US: do you think that many citizen of US do speak another language than english ?

Quite a few speak Spanish

 

[Kathar1na]

Yes they speak Spanish, Tagalog, Vietnamese, Mandarin, Japanese, Hindi...I could go on. I'm a US citizen, and speak Indonesian conversationally, and get by with Spanish.

Spanish maybe, the second most spoken language in the world, after chinees

Quite a few speak Spanish

Asking a question like "What about the US: do you think that many citizen of US do speak another language than English?" is of course an invitation to comments . I cannot speak for the poster who asked the question but I presume he did not mean native Spanish speakers but speakers of Spanish as a foreign language. And what's "many"? Perhaps it was meant to compare the percentage of foreign language speakers of Spanish in the USA and of English in Spain ...

I got a bit more interested in the value of foreign language teaching in primary and secondary education. I learnt the word "heritage speaker" which I had not seen before. It apparently refers to the children of immigrants who learn and speak their parents' native language while growing up in a country other than the parents' home country. And this popped up:

Other than heritage-language speakers, it is estimated that only between one in eight and one in four Americans have the foreign language skills necessary to hold a conversation in a language other than English. According to the Modern Language Association, enrollment in a course in a language other than English at the postsecondary level stands at 8%, as opposed to 16% in 1960. [...] at the college level, only 8% of students are enrolled in a foreign language course, and this relatively small enrollment is heavily concentrated in elementary levels and in the Spanish language.​

OK, that's postsecondary education and not primary or secondary education. But still ... posters said that there are secondary schools that offer no foreign language courses and students are not taking any foreign language class throughout their school years. That is quite a difference to Spain where foreign language education is apparently more wide spread if not compulsory for every secondary student and also starts at an earlier age.

BTW, the EU as such has no competence in regulating education and curricula but they do initiate and support voluntary programs, campaigns and policies. Their idea is that every EU citizen, at least those of the future, ought to learn at least one if not two foreign languages.