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"Daily luggage transfers" is included in the trip. I guess this article is also damage control because, as the article mentions, the group had contracted a commercial travel operator who specialises in camino trips and who provided the two guides.I don't know if these folks had used a baggage transfer service
As an experienced tour company they should have known taxis were not an option for those 5 km and shoild have ensured appropriate equipment was available. The photograph shows them wearing shorts and t shirts on a mountain, where were their layers and protective clothing? On a mountain it is imperative that you have ALL the equipment and clothing with you. The weather changes all the time on a mountain."Daily luggage transfers" is included in the trip. I guess this article is also damage control because, as the article mentions, the group had contracted a commercial travel operator who specialises in camino trips and who provided the two guides.
For those who don't read the article: the guides even arranged for four taxis to pick them up but given the circumstances (weather and I suppose 4 blind people in the group and it was getting later than they had calculated beforehand), they judged it unsafe to walk from the shelter to the road as taxis cannot reach the shelter. There is a 5 km (I think) section on the Route Napoleon that is not accessible for cars.
To their credit, when they realised that the group was in potential trouble, they tried to arrange for the taxis first and only after some further deliberation they called the rescue services. Individual pilgrims with little experience of the territory will call rescue services straight away, even when they just feel lost and don't have a decent map. So no surprise that they had 84 interventions to date this year - on average, that's nearly one intervention every second day.As an experienced tour company they should have known taxis were not an option for those 5 km
When walking in mountains always always always take appropriate clothing and equipment with you. This includes sleeping bags and shelter, you never know when the weather will change. I don't know if these folks had used a baggage transfer service but I would not advise doing that in the mountains.
I would humbly suggest that that photo wasn’t taken at the point of rescue. If they needed rescuing from the “Santiago 700” sign they’ve little hope of making Hunto let alone SantiagoFrom that photograph it seems fairly certain that they were neither suffering from exhaustion nor hypothermia (when the photo was taken) - if they were they wouldn't be standing around, they would be sitting, heads down, shivering, covered in foil blankets ...
I would humbly suggest that that photo wasn’t taken at the point of rescue. If they needed rescuing from the “Santiago 700” sign they’ve little hope of making Hunto let alone Santiago
I am not sure where*) and when the photo in question was taken but the papers said that the rescue team evacuated a first group that was in worse condition by vehicle while a member of the First Responder team lead the rest of the group to the road. So the photo may show the hardier lot (I count less than 20 pilgrims in the photo).Ah! So the photo is them getting out of the rescue vehicles, not in!
It's always going to be a balancing act between carrying enough for an emergency but not overloading yourself. I've walked on Dartmoor in England for most of my life and it's notorious for suddenly dropping thick mist on you. I've walked a number of people off because they didn't have a map and compass or didn't know how to use it, and didn't have a sweater and waterproof. In summer I don't take full kit but I always have a warm layer and waterproofs/windproofs. I've spent one night out unexpectedly which was a bit uncomfortable but not a problem because I had clothes to deal with it and knew what I was doing, but someone wearing shorts and tee shirts could be in real trouble.As an experienced tour company they should have known taxis were not an option for those 5 km and shoild have ensured appropriate equipment was available. The photograph shows them wearing shorts and t shirts on a mountain, where were their layers and protective clothing? On a mountain it is imperative that you have ALL the equipment and clothing with you. The weather changes all the time on a mountain.
We really do not know what they had with them, do we?
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( Yes we do, look at the photo only one person wearing long pants and some very flimsy wet gear )
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And they definitely should have prepared for inclement weather.
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( I totally agree with you )
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I certainly do not fault the group for sending bags ahead. Many of us do it, especially on the mountain sections.
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( Neither do I )
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If the guides thought it too strenuous for some of their members to carry weather protective clothing, they might have made arrangements to have others, or a cart to accompany them.
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( My point exactly
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Finally, the article indicates the leaders took 3/4 of an hour to finally call for assistance....was that perhaps too long of a period to wait given their clients.
And the guides should have known exactly where taxi services ended??
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I question the whole thing of companies organizing trips like this. are their rules and regulations governing their conduct. do they have a code of practice?. it's not good enough to say they have 2 experienced guides, if you have 4 blind people then should they not have atleast been on a one to one with a guide?
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Glad to hear everyone is ok , just to clarify a few details for us pleaseThis below is from 1 of the blind lads on this trip:
Hi gang maybe some of ye read in the tabloid papers this week of the and I quote , the dramatic rescue mission of a group of irish walkers on top of a mountain while trecking the Camino. The papers declared that this rescue happened in severe conditions and that the rescued were suffering hyperthermia etc etc. Just to let ye know that wee the walkers never had such a great laugh at this reported dribble and astonished how a little story can run and eventually be blown out of all proportion. Yes we came into bad weather but nothing severe and certainly nothing to cause us hyperthermia or that it suddenly dropped from 32degrees down to 3degrees as was reported. yes we had reached the summit at 4,200ft when the weather became foggy and we had 3km left of a descent through some rockey terrain before reaching our hotel, so our extremely experienced guide may Iadd, made the wise decision not to take this route , but decided to call for back up in the collection of us getting into trucks. These same so call rescue trucks were able to drive to us on the mountain and pick us up which we could easily have walked but for the only reason it was another 10km adding another 7km to our walk. The only reason that I am hylighting this that after all the laugh we had reading and hearing how much this was blown out of proportion is that there is a serious side to this and that is how much of it was blown out of proportion and how so called investicated journalism can get it so wrong. Our two guides were quite concerned as so as well was the charity guide dogs as how this ridiculous story would reflect on them and their business. I know the month of August is referred to silly season and I know that tabloid papers should be taken with a pinch of salt, but some times it is ridiculous reporting like this that can cause untold damage to individuals, their livelihood and their carreer.
I see that the story has now made it into the English language and into Irish newspapers and I guess that is meant by the reference to "tabloid" newspapers. The discussion in this thread is based on what local newspapers reported in Spanish for Navarra. It was the Bomberos who mentioned the words "rescue" and "severe fatigue and hypothermia" in their tweet (see below) when they announced their intervention to the world.certainly nothing to cause us hyperthermia
The OP's account was deleted. I wonder why?
This below is from 1 of the blind lads on this trip:
Hi gang maybe some of ye read in the tabloid papers this week of the and I quote , the dramatic rescue mission of a group of irish walkers on top of a mountain while trecking the Camino. The papers declared that this rescue happened in severe conditions and that the rescued were suffering hyperthermia etc etc. Just to let ye know that wee the walkers never had such a great laugh at this reported dribble and astonished how a little story can run and eventually be blown out of all proportion. Yes we came into bad weather but nothing severe and certainly nothing to cause us hyperthermia or that it suddenly dropped from 32degrees down to 3degrees as was reported. yes we had reached the summit at 4,200ft when the weather became foggy and we had 3km left of a descent through some rockey terrain before reaching our hotel, so our extremely experienced guide may Iadd, made the wise decision not to take this route , but decided to call for back up in the collection of us getting into trucks. These same so call rescue trucks were able to drive to us on the mountain and pick us up which we could easily have walked but for the only reason it was another 10km adding another 7km to our walk. The only reason that I am hylighting this that after all the laugh we had reading and hearing how much this was blown out of proportion is that there is a serious side to this and that is how much of it was blown out of proportion and how so called investicated journalism can get it so wrong. Our two guides were quite concerned as so as well was the charity guide dogs as how this ridiculous story would reflect on them and their business. I know the month of August is referred to silly season and I know that tabloid papers should be taken with a pinch of salt, but some times it is ridiculous reporting like this that can cause untold damage to individuals, their livelihood and their carreer.
This below is from 1 of the blind lads on this trip:
Hi gang maybe some of ye read in the tabloid papers this week of the and I quote , the dramatic rescue mission of a group of irish walkers on top of a mountain while trecking the Camino. The papers declared that this rescue happened in severe conditions and that the rescued were suffering hyperthermia etc etc. Just to let ye know that wee the walkers never had such a great laugh at this reported dribble and astonished how a little story can run and eventually be blown out of all proportion. Yes we came into bad weather but nothing severe and certainly nothing to cause us hyperthermia or that it suddenly dropped from 32degrees down to 3degrees as was reported. yes we had reached the summit at 4,200ft when the weather became foggy and we had 3km left of a descent through some rockey terrain before reaching our hotel, so our extremely experienced guide may Iadd, made the wise decision not to take this route , but decided to call for back up in the collection of us getting into trucks. These same so call rescue trucks were able to drive to us on the mountain and pick us up which we could easily have walked but for the only reason it was another 10km adding another 7km to our walk. The only reason that I am hylighting this that after all the laugh we had reading and hearing how much this was blown out of proportion is that there is a serious side to this and that is how much of it was blown out of proportion and how so called investicated journalism can get it so wrong. Our two guides were quite concerned as so as well was the charity guide dogs as how this ridiculous story would reflect on them and their business. I know the month of August is referred to silly season and I know that tabloid papers should be taken with a pinch of salt, but some times it is ridiculous reporting like this that can cause untold damage to individuals, their livelihood and their carreer.
This seems the crux of it, and I am not the least apologetic in thinking that's just too bad. Why blame the tabloids when the initial event happened, regardless of how it was reported in the end? It seems the guide's actions were responsible once everyone was in the middle of the dicey situation - but these situations don't happen without cause. Those 20 people who got up there were being guided, so obviously there was some miscalculation of risk, somewhere along the way.as how this ridiculous story would reflect on them and their business.
They are back home. It was just a 1 week trip with 5 days walking from SJPP to Estella. Perhaps the reason why they were inadequately equipped for a change of the weather. (Note: the poster said that he's not a member of the group).How is the rest of the journey going for ye now? I heard it is high temperatures again on the Camino.
I can't answer this and it's the reason why I usually translate bomberos as First Responders.Coming from Alps country it's kind of unusual for me that bomberos are doing these rescues.
So why bomberos here on this part of Pyrenees?
Coming from Alps country it's kind of unusual for me that bomberos are doing these rescues. I mean Pyrenees aren's just hills... Our firefighters deal with fires (of course), floods, car accidents and even cats in the trees etc. but all the mountain rescues are done by Mountain Rescue Service which contains experienced rock climbers and doctors. Accompanied by police or army helicopters if needed.
So why bomberos here on this part of Pyrenees?
On the contrary. Our Mountain rescue help on unmarked trails, in "walls" (climbing), but firefighters can help on flatter terrain in much different circumstances or usually not at all in mountains. But that's not important actually. @Kathar1na already mentioned different approaches. On that particular part of the Pyrenees they have bomberos to do the jobI'm from the UK originally and there we have 'Mountain Rescue' teams too.
But the walk over the Pyrenees is not really the same is it?
It's on a marked track, with open landscape and woods.
Most rescues I think involve driving their all terrain truck or a 4 WD up the mountain and 'collecting ' Pilgrims.
Sometimes in deep snow they have to cover a section on foot maybe.
I'm sure they are also trained in 'Mountain Rescue' as in abseiling with stretcher patients etc, but would seldom need those skills I think.
On the contrary. Our Mountain rescue help on unmarked trails, in "walls" (climbing), but firefighters can help on flatter terrain in much different circumstances or usually not at all in mountains. But that's not important actually. @Kathar1na already mentioned different approaches. On that particular part of the Pyrenees they have bomberos to do the job
and we had 3km left of a descent through some rockey terrain before reaching our hotel, so our extremely experienced guide may Iadd, made the wise decision not to take this route , but decided to call for back up in the collection of us getting into trucks. These same so call rescue trucks were able to drive to us on the mountain and pick us up which we could easily have walked but for the only reason it was another 10km adding another 7km to our walk.
I'm still trying to make sense of this. It seems that the group was right at the junction where the trail through the woods (the 3K) and the road down to Ibaneta (the 7K) meet, i.e. Lepoeder. The guides (rightly so) decided that the group should not take the route through the woods. They're saying that it was due to the conditions, but with four blind walkers that path shouldn't have been under consideration in the first place. So that leaves the road, an extra 7K for sure but shouldn't have been a problem even under foggy conditions as it's the easiest part of the day. Kind of monotonous for sure with the endless zig-zagging but should have gotten them to Roncesvalles in about two hours. Which is what makes me (and it seems a few other people) feel that there was something else going on.
Makes sense. I clocked the road down to Ibaneta at 4K.The road descent down is only about 400 metres longer than the steep descent through the woods, so less than half a km.
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