- Time of past OR future Camino
- Yearly and Various 2014-2019
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Indeed--especially on more remote Caminos, where it could save one's own!In retrospect I would NEVER walk without a phone. Carrying one may help save someone else's life.
Nice, Margaret, indeed--long may it be so.Usually walking late in the year during the 'off' season and often in inclement weather the few pilgrims met on the route or in those albergues which were open generally were more interested in sharing resources, stories and assistance then typing their tales home. ...Happily the camino spirit of human interchange can and still does continue despite technology. Long may it be so.
I will use technology very differently when I'm in an albergue with a group of pilgrims but for these weeks it has been my lifeline.
That's the double-edged sword of this technology, isn't it--both lifesaver and potential isolater.I agree about the intentionality of dealing with it but it seems almost impossible to buck the tide.
Ha, ha, Stuart...or free food? Not a bad idea.As for the conversation starter - loudly announce 'free beer? free wine?'.
Good point Felice--especially for those of us thinking we might use the GPS on our phones on some less well-trod Camino.When you really need to use one, as mspath says, will there be reception? I got lost last week - well, I went off the official path by accident. I had a pretty good map on my ipad, having scrolled the route before I set off, but there was a small portion of the map that I had not bothered with, which was in less detail. And of course it was the vital bit!
Good point Felice--especially for those of us thinking we might use the GPS on our phones on some less well-trod Camino.
In March, I had a similar experience as you did. It made me really wish I just had a simple old-fashioned paper map!
And so what got me thinking as I read this article--and wondering what you all would think--was this line:
"Given the fact that cell phone and social media use will remain a reality along the Camino from now on, our observations have taught us that we need to develop a more intentional set of rules to limit our use of this technology."
1) Learn how to use your devices before doing the camino.And so what got me thinking as I read this article--and wondering what you all would think--was this line:
"Given the fact that cell phone and social media use will remain a reality along the Camino from now on, our observations have taught us that we need to develop a more intentional set of rules to limit our use of this technology."
So how do you manage your electronics--and what guidelines (if any) do you follow for yourself when you walk? What works, and what challenges you in this area?
1) Learn how to use your devices before doing the camino.
2) Be careful about what you promise.
Peg kept complaining about all the time I was playing with the tablet we brought. Actually I was spending that time trying to get it to work and resented that tablet time more than she did. But we had promised newsletters home. Next time we will probably still screwup but in a different way.
we need to develop a more intentional set of rules to limit our use of this technology
Thank you. I believe that @Viranini indeed stumbled on a very thought provoking subject.Wonderful post Wokabaut.
Wonderfully expressed as is your whole post. I laughed at your book points as I am guilty of all four.And I agree that we need to be aware of both the negatives and positives of constant electronic communication, and manage them as best we can. I just object to some of the "tut tutting" about modern times!
It was perfectly possible to walk all day in July and August and to sleep in many refugios without encountering another walker. I think that was a massive factor in forging direct personal relationships.
But do consider that the person looking at her electronic device in a public space may just be shy and uncertain of her, or his, linguistic competence.
While I enjoy the company of others, I also need an introvert's quiet time to regain my energy and focus for the day ahead.
To give a different outlook, try changing the word "phone" (or "new technology") to "book."
You all in your different ways have touched on something fascinating and important aspect of this that we don't often consider in the rush to be concerned about new tech--how it can also be a means to be both social in a crowd, not too social. When there are very few walkers around, that's a moot point--as @Bradypus has pointed out so well.Thank you. I believe that @Viranini indeed stumbled on a very thought provoking subject.
Wonderfully expressed as is your whole post. I laughed at your book points as I am guilty of all four.
Yes, also. It IS complicated, indeed!I think about how much pleasure this brings to me and how fortunate I am to have this technology.
Be careful about what you promise.
This is my tactic, as well. That said, I sure do enjoy the updates people post here, and realize I'm actually using their posts for a 'Camino hit.' Mea Culpa. I hate it when I use people.loved ones will need to wait for my return for updates.
That's I think the crux of what's concerning--is when people are so engrossed that they can't. And you mention Respect, Meri...and I think that's the core of it.if someone spoke to me, I gave them my full attention.
I managed to lose 4,000 pictures from Barcelona and the Camino from SJPdP up to the border of Galicia when a micro-SD card snapped. I did manage to keep 500 or so from those though when every couple of days I copied favorites from the card to the tablet. However what I did was not a regular copy but a cropping and then doing a screenshot. So I got a lower image quality and the ones saved this one weren't necessarily my best ones.I am promising to take photos (on an old fashioned thing called a camera) and to have a phone from which I may send the odd text.
I loved this, Rick! I thought of starting a thread to allow people to post their pictures of iconic places. It'd show us just how connected we are!For proof see this picture by @VNwalking and its comment:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/camino-photos/a-wet-morning-toxibo.4998/
I really like this idea. I just created a new thread "Coming up with threads for iconic images" to discuss this a bit first.I thought of starting a thread to allow people to post their pictures of iconic places. It'd show us just how connected we are!
I managed to figure this out without a lot of analysis and rules!Hence the need to figure out how not to walk into the lampost...
Ah the joy of being raised in a household that honors introverts...Lucky you, C clearly!By the way, we were also allowed to read at the table most of the time when I was a kid.
And the people around them as well, yes? Because there's nothing like walking into a room full of texting and posting people to feel very alone in a crowd. The posters may be connected to someone but that someone could be half a world away, not here and now.Does the technology isolate? It depends. IMHO, isolation is a feeling so we would need to ask the people using technology if they feel isolated or not.
Is it necessary to limit the use of technology while you are on the camino? IMHO, no if you are confortable with the use you make of it and don't put yourself at risk by using it. As simple as that.
Does the technology isolate? It depends. IMHO, isolation is a feeling so we would need to ask the people using technology if they feel isolated or not.
And the people around them as well, yes? Because there's nothing like walking into a room full of texting and posting people to feel very alone in a crowd.
I actually don't have an argument with technology; it's much more nuanced than that. It depends on the intention of the journey.
I am not so sure that "isolation is a feeling."
It may be a condition of lack of contact with those around you
Does reading at the table equate with being introverted? Do extroverts not like to do so?Ah the joy of being raised in a household that honors introverts..
Ha ha, @C clearly, I have no idea, because I'm not one. But from the experience of sharing the table with extroverts, I'd say they rather prefer to talk over each other.Does reading at the table equate with being introverted? Do extroverts not like to do so?
Does reading at the table equate with being introverted? Do extroverts not like to do so?
Ha ha, @C clearly, I have no idea, because I'm not one. But from the experience of sharing the table with extroverts, I'd say they rather prefer to talk over each other.
I agree. There are times when being alone together can be lovely, like watching a sunset together, reading a book in front of a warm fire, etc .I protest! I think being alone together can be quite lovely.
If you saw the same couples, walking along hand in hand, not speaking, each with involved in their own thoughts but without devices, would you also view it as odd? Who is to say that they are "lost" in their devices or thoughts? I say the couples are content and complete - as individuals and as a couple. What's the problem? I've been married 35 years and don't talk constantly with my husband. And how is kids sharing jokes "worse"than something?I agree. There are times when being alone together can be lovely, like watching a sunset together, reading a book in front of a warm fire, etc .
It is just odd to see couples walking hand in hand together, surfing the net, stopping at various intersections to reply to an email, or a group of four sitting a table waiting for their meals to arrive, each lost in their respective devices, words not spoken, or worse kids sharing jokes between themselves via email ( or I should say texting ) while lazing around the park.
OK. I am the devil's advocate here!
If you saw the same couples, walking along hand in hand, not speaking, each with involved in their own thoughts but without devices, would you also view it as odd? Who is to say that they are "lost" in their devices or thoughts? I say the couples are content and complete - as individuals and as a couple. What's the problem? I've been married 35 years and don't talk constantly with my husband. And how is kids sharing jokes "worse"than something?
That's a slightly different take on the matter, and addresses something different from the "alone together" question.people that walk along a busy city street heads down focused on the devices, alone or together, crossing intersections without even a glance or two to check for traffic is simply odd.
Isn't it great to be able to be free of all that and really connect?still engage fully with the online world (hence this post for example) but I do it in manageable chunks - and 'deliberate' times, rather than allowing it to dominate me.
I have found it very liberating and refreshing. I don't miss it at all now.
Isn't it great to be able to be free of all that and really connect?
How to curb the use of these amazing devices so we don't become slaves to them is the basic question--of course important for both the Camino and the journey of life.
But when people are together and on their devices--there is a kind of absence, because each person is someplace else, communicating with someone else. If this happens over a meal, they're missing the meal and missing the occasion to be with each other here and now.
Sure, OK, it doesn't do any harm as @Castilian says. But I think it's sad, for many reasons.
How to curb the use of these amazing devices so we don't become slaves to them is the basic question
I resonate more with Jirit and understand the pleasure of being alone together as well.
It's possible to be alone together, not talking but being here and quietly with whatever is happening. For example, in some cultures people tend to eat in silence but are totally present with the experience of eating and sharing a meal. It's lovely.
the "alone together" question
I am trying to figure out why someone would post a comment in a question form on a forum while forbidding any reply or response.(so no replies/discussion about this approach in order to respect forum rule number 2): Aren't most of us alone together with God?
I am trying to figure out why someone would post a comment in a question form on a forum while forbidding any reply or response.
As I said, to provide some food for thought. The problem is that starting a discussion about the thoughts that question may arise would probably be ending in a breaking of forum rule number 2 (no discussions about religion -among other subjects- because they usually end in a fight) and the thread would be closed sooner than later so I'm afraid we can't discuss about it on the thread (even though, I, personally, wouldn't have any problem with it). Maybe out of the thread in a private conversation? Otherwise, consider it to be a rethorical question even if you don't agree with the point I'm making or if you don't think I'm making a point at all.
After all, the alone together approach I introduced isn't related with technology so it could be considered (a bit) off-topic and I don't want to (risk to) get a thread that I didn't open closed due to a (bit) off-topic discussion.
Perhaps there should be a private sub-forum on religion where camino pilgrims could share the topic which is so central to the intentions of so many of us without being ejected.
@Castilian:
Perhaps there should be a private sub-forum on religion where camino pilgrims could share the topic which is so central to the intentions of so many of us without being ejected.
I hope that you are mistaken, as I have found so many persons of different religious persuasions who are open-hearted and profound on this forum. It is wonderful for me to be able to hear about their special experiences on the camino. I am indebted to all of them for their willingness to share as much as the forum regulations permit.This is a nice idea but sadly there are so many religious bigots with big mouths and no brains and more importantly no respect for other fellow humans that the sub forum would quickly fall over
I hope that you are mistaken.
Isn't discovering that exactly the reason many are walking the Camino (whatever one calls 'God")?Aren't most of us alone together with God?
I suppose I am replying to that other thread. I have participated in many silent retreats, most within religious communities. None fulfilled for me the spiritual purpose that I intended, although I always followed all the required behaviours and waited on inspiration. My camino last fall provided for me, without my doing anything but walking, pretty much a lifetime's worth of spiritual renewal. I knew that I was there in obedience to a call and I responded openly to what happened. That was all. For me, the camino fulfilled the promise of Isaiah 50: "Ho, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters." For me, it was a place of refreshment. But the hike and the retreat were completely inseparable. And use of technology was irrelevant.Isn't discovering that exactly the reason many are walking the Camino (whatever one calls 'God")?
And more to the point of this discussion--doesn't this require being completely present here and now rather than somewhere else? (Rhetorical question...because I feel pretty strongly that it does. My opinion.)
In meditation retreats, there is often the requirement of silence. Which includes besides vocal speech no reading, no writing, and certainly no devices--so as to really be present with what is, here and now, 100%. The Camino can be a hike or a retreat, and there are many possibilities partway in between those two options. So technology use needs to be appropriate to the intention of the peregrina/o.
You're right @Castilian. Definitely another thread.
Voila, Albertagirl! Well, whatever floats your boat. For some it's relevant, for you, obviously not. One thing I did notice is that you were exercising quite a bit of restraint. Hardly an addiction, I'd sayFor me, the camino fulfilled the promise of Isaiah 50: "Ho, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters." For me, it was a place of refreshment. But the hike and the retreat were completely inseparable. And use of technology was irrelevant.
I reported home to family and friends via email about once a week, when wifi was available...I used it relatively little for entertainment or communication purposes.
@Albertagirl, please don't be so harsh on your nephew, at least not yet. You say he is a resident of China, and you refer to his visits to family in Canada. I expect that his friends in China have become his 'family' and when he visits his family in Canada, he does what his 'family' in China does. I am no expert but I believe that sitting down at a table for a meal with family and/or friends, and actually visiting with each other, is a learned behaviour. If his family of original used to do that, he may well have forgotten what it is like. From my own observations, and from what my kids have told me over the years, not every family sits down for a meal on a regular basis and, sad to say, not every person has 'family' with whom to get together in the first place. Perhaps your nephew just needs it drawn to his attention just how very fortunate and privileged he is to be part of a family that gets together once in a while. You didn't say how old this nephew is, but my guess is that he will be grateful, eventually anyway, to have had this brought to his attention......I have a nephew who is resident in China, where this habit of being online while eating is even more common. When he visits family in Canada and we are dining in a restaurant, he will send a picture of the food on his plate, and by the end of the meal he may have 75 "likes". This came to its ultimate end at our 2015 "family" Christmas dinner, filmed in its entirety by the nephew for dissemination in China. I did not know that this would happen, had no choice about it, and said hardly a word during the whole of the dinner. I no longer wish to spend time with my family when that nephew is present.
Isn't discovering that exactly the reason many are walking the Camino (whatever one calls 'God")?
So technology use needs to be appropriate to the intention of the peregrina/o.
It depends on preferences, aim of the trip and many other personal questions. I don't think we can't make general statements here.
I may not be addicted to the internet in general, but there is no doubt in my own mind that I am severely addicted to this forum. However, I don't suppose that I shall miss it when I am walking in the mountains for ten days, starting next week.Voila, Albertagirl! Well, whatever floats your boat. For some it's relevant, for you, obviously not. One thing I did notice is that you were exercising quite a bit of restraint. Hardly an addiction, I'd say:
I may not be addicted to the internet in general, but there is no doubt in my own mind that I am severely addicted to this forum. However, I don't suppose that I shall miss it when I am walking in the mountains for ten days, starting next week.
Surprisingly - as it was both unintended and with the full access and use of technology - I had a very similar experience.I have participated in many silent retreats, most within religious communities. None fulfilled for me the spiritual purpose that I intended, although I always followed all the required behaviours and waited on inspiration. My camino last fall provided for me, without my doing anything but walking, pretty much a lifetime's worth of spiritual renewal. I knew that I was there in obedience to a call and I responded openly to what happened. That was all.
Like that! Perfectly said, thank you.Truly a time of walking and being fully in the World.
Ha ha ha ha......I always treasure a silent retreat that neighboured a property undergoing extensive earthworks. It was hysterical. Everyone used our brief daily meeting with our teacher to complain about the noise! The last couple of days were the weekend so no work, no more noise - and everyone was complaining that they couldn't meditate as it was 'too quiet'
You point out the potential, Meri...using the technology skillfully and well so that it's both useful and not a source of disconnection but a source of deeper inquiry and understanding. I wish I could remember each time I log in to ask myself 'Why am I doing this?'...and not logging in if the answer is not something that's strictly necessary.I choose to look at technology as both noise and necessity in the modern world.
Is it ever!Interesting because a meditation or spiritual retreat, particularly a silent one, can also be viewed as Alone Together
I love paper maps, but google earth is a pretty good invention. It was a game changer for me when someone told me that you dont need phone signal to have really detailed maps there on a device. Now all I need is to work out how to carry my ipad in a more accessible way, rather than in the rucksack itself. As for not having the bit of the map that you need, well, I think that paper maps are even worse on that score! Remember trying to work out where you were, in a howling gale, and needing to put 2 (or more) paper maps together to do so?!!!!
Just a thought - I can read a map, and can generally work out where I am without GPS. How many people have that old fashioned skill nowadays?
I am a professional geographer (GIS Expert) and use GPS regularly in my work, however I did the Camino with my daughter low-tech. I am happy to say that my daughter can indeed read a hard copy map (I pretended to get us lost, acted frustrated and turned the job over to her...wink) and she rose to the challenge. However I can tell you that many people have no ability/experience in using a traditional map, orienting themselves by sun or shadow. When my daughter would ask if we were lost, I would look at our shadow and tell her it was in front of us, so we must be headed west. Being able to read a map was especially useful in the larger towns, such as Lugo and Santiago. And will add that Santiago is worth exploring outside the cathedral area for those who have time. A very pedestrian city with a terrific downtown too, completely accessible by foot from the old town.
When my daughter would ask if we were lost, I would look at our shadow and tell her it was in front of us, so we must be headed west.
When my daughter would ask if we were lost, I would look at our shadow and tell her it was in front of us, so we must be headed west.
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