Billy Buell
Walking Willie
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Le Puy to sjpdp, next planned Norte.
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On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
I corrected that.See a doctor. Andconsider usinguse poles.
... @Billy Buell ... and learn how to use them.Andconsider usinguse poles..
I'd go to see a Physio as a first step.On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
That is also a useful comment.You're possible walking wrong.
On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
Hmm. one could sit on one's arse and slither down?I would only add to the guidance above is that when walking downhill a) go slowly b) gently place your foot down and not "bang" it down as it is so easy walking down rather than up c) when very steep slalom is good but also, as I have big feet, is to go down at an angle using poles if a narrow track i.e. facing at 45 degrees to the descent not straight down.
Myself, I make good use of my poles to make sure yhe ground is solid and for balance. No matter how " steep", I never walk straight down, I create my own switchbacks, zigzag or slalom, call it what you will, and take my time.On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
Interesting that you should mention backwards walking. I’ve just been reading about that, and have ordered a bicyclist’s rear view mirror which should arrive today. Good for you for trying it.Agree a good PT is in order, and the suggestions offered here are all consistent with the advice I received from mine. I did the Norte/Primitivo last spring, and I think the combo of poles (I think two are best for this purpose), bent knees and smaller steps worked for me. I still had some swelling after some of the longer descents, but with some ibuprofen and an application of Bio Freeze to aid recovery it was manageable.
For what it's worth, I will add that as part of my recovery from an earler knee injury, my PT recommended including backwards walking in my training - the idea being if you're only walking forward, you only develop part of your leg muscles; walking backwards helps develop the whole muscle (and that to prevent knee injuries you also need to strengthen the muscles above and below the knee).
The advice was to alternate 1-2 minutes of backwards with 3-6 minutes of forward throughout the walk. Although the injury healed before I began my Camino, I found that it was so helpful that I continue to try to do it 2-3 times/week - I found it really works leg muscles in ways that forward walking doesn't - I seem to be able to walk for miles going forward feeling almost nothing in my legs, but after a few minutes walking backward, I feel the fatigue in the muscles and particularly on uphills/downhills feel a different stretch in the psoas, which makes me think it's doing something and must be helpful, so I've kept it as part of weekly routine. Your foot also strikes the ground in a different fashion, toe to heel instead of heel to toe.
It's probably safest to do this on a local school track, but I live in a relatively low-traffic area and found a nice 4 mile loop with relatively smooth roads, crossing to the other side of the road for the backwards portions so that while walking backwards I can see cars coming. I know where the smooth parts of the road are, so that's where I turn around to walk backwards, using the side of the road and the middle lane marker to stay centered; I've been doing it long enough now that I barely turn my head to keep on track or avoid bumps/holes. It's slow going at first until you get used to it, and obstructions in the road can be a real hazard. At the time my PT recommended this strategy, I remember reading several articles on it (mostly about backwards running - some claim that you burn more calories backwards, even if it is slower - who knows, that's not why I do it ). It's also an interesting conversation starter! I've had runners, cyclists, even people in cars stop to ask me about it, hahaha!
Great! Go for it! Eager to hear if you find it helpful!Interesting that you should mention backwards walking. I’ve just been reading about that, and have ordered a bicyclist’s rear view mirror which should arrive today. Good for you for trying it.
Why walking backwards can be good for your health and brain
During the 19th Century, the activity of "retro-walking" was little more than an eccentric hobby, but today research is revealing it can have real benefits for your health and brain.www.bbc.com
Hey Billy, Checking with you doctor for starters is good advice. That may lead to referral to physical therapy and/or trainer to work on this area. If you’re cleared to do so, consider training with a dummy load in your pack and poles and include some downhill work. Kind of hard to do downhill here in Florida, so I trained going up and down steep bridges and golf course berms. Good luck!On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
This! Huge number of YouTubes out there; search on "fix senior knee pain" and choose one or two you can do regularly.You can check online for knee strengthening exercises, and try these while you wait for your doctor / physio appointment. But do get that expert opinion.
Practice down hill with your poles to determine the technic that works best for you. Poles are an absolute game changer on down hill hikes. They take a significant amount of stress off of your knees.On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
Suggest you get opinion from a physio well in advance. Knee pain can originate from a hip problem, for example, and a professional can diagnose and advise re course of action. I have a dicky right knee and find poles invaluable, particularly going downhil.On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
Excellent advice.Barring any foot misalignment problems (which many of us have), the most common cause of knee problems is weak hips. The poster who spoke of soreness on outside of knees going downhill described an iliotibial (IT) band problem. The IT band does not stretch, so no amount of stretching will fix it. The fix is a prevention with a series of hip strengthening exercises. An appointment with a physio or exercise physiologist should be your first move. It is what they do. Forget doctors--they do not have anywhere near the training for those issues.
By weak hips do you mean weak glutes?Barring any foot misalignment problems (which many of us have), the most common cause of knee problems is weak hips. The poster who spoke of soreness on outside of knees going downhill described an iliotibial (IT) band problem. The IT band does not stretch, so no amount of stretching will fix it. The fix is a prevention with a series of hip strengthening exercises. An appointment with a physio or exercise physiologist should be your first move. It is what they do. Forget doctors--they do not have anywhere near the training for those issues.
I mean glutes (maximus and medius), adductors, hip flexors, psoas, quadriceps, deep core... Strengthening all adds stability that takes pressure off the joints.By weak hips do you mean weak glutes?
According to my PT (I recommend a sports medicine PT, not a regular physical therapist), the glute is the muscle most missing in action in the United States. Ironically, it is our biggest muscle. I had to be taught how to “kick it on” with some exercises. Nothing fancy, just some basic exercises where I could feel the glute tightening.I mean glutes (maximus and medius), adductors, hip flexors, psoas, quadriceps, deep core... Strengthening all adds stability that takes pressure off the joints.
I completely agree that the best exercise for walking up and down hills is walking up and down hills. That's been my own approach. My addition and caution is that you probably want to take it slow and easy with this, gradually increasing until you get to a point you are comfortable and confident. I usually start a good few months in advance and gradually increase frequency and duration. You don't want to damage your knees before you leave while you are trying to prepare them so that they won't be damaged on the Camino.I find that the best exercise for walking up and down hills is – walking up and down hills. I live where I can do this almost every day. The month before a Camino, I try to exercise with a pack double my Camino weight and try to stretch everything that bends every couple of days.
It is often remarked, explicitly or implicitly, on this forum that walking a Camino can have an addictive-like nature, noting that some addictions are pleasurable whilst others can be harmful. (Not an academic discourse on addiction theory.)I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
From everything I've read (and selection bias may be at work, I admit), doing a lot of walking is a net positive for our health as we age, rather than something likely to lead to long-term damage and suffering. Certainly that's what I've been hearing from my family doctor.It is often remarked, explicitly or implicitly, on this forum that walking a Camino can have an addictive-like nature, noting that some addictions are pleasurable whilst others can be harmful. (Not an academic discourse on addiction theory.)
Have you given much thought that walking a Camino of more than a 100 km or so (insert any number of your choice) may not be in your long term best interests?
Many people at some stage develop imperfections that limit their ability to do some things in life and may lead to further damage and suffering. (Demanding sports often have most people retire from them in their 30s, more or less.) In which case it could be time to let-go, and retire from that activity (or do the retirement-adjacent version), and pursue other interests involving less physical damage.
I don't think I was giving advice to that effect, but rather for him to question whether it is in his best interest to undertake a lot of walking given he has some form of bodily impairment.Personally, I'm not ready to advise that the best thing to do is give up Caminos.
I don't think it is clear he has a bodily impairment and don't know why you would assume that. Suggesting he reconsider undertaking a lot of walking isn't really all that different from suggesting he reconsider walking any future Caminos.I don't think I was giving advice to that effect, but rather for him to question whether it is in his best interest to undertake a lot of walking given he has some form of bodily impairment.
This is different from the normal walking everyone's doctors recommend, and I am not familiar with doctors who recommend walking a Camino. I had a Seniors check-up a few months ago - a question was "Can you walk 100 metres." Answer "Yes".
After the check-up I made a comment that I was a little amused about the 100 metres as I have just returned from walking over 1,000 kms across Spain.
Recovery time from activity is critical, more time is required as we age. People with some form of impairment may do more damage and require even more recovery time, and possibly so much that a Camino might become a slow and well-spaced staccato, and perhaps less pleasurable.
Yes poles help and I always use them. Yet there are occasions when the steep downhills still cause pain. At times ( when its safe) I walk downhill backwards to ease my knees. I march up any grade efficiently and then everyone passes me on the downhill as I go slowly zig zagging to the bottom.... @Billy Buell ... and learn how to use them.
It is not complicated but I see many people don't get the benefit of poles. For you a good technique is necessary.
I appreciate your comments. My sore knees were first experienced on the Francigena coming from the Gran Bernardo Pass. Days of downhill.I don't think it is clear he has a bodily impairment and don't know why you would assume that. Suggesting he reconsider undertaking a lot of walking isn't really all that different from suggesting he reconsider walking any future Caminos.
I had terrible knee issues on my 2016 Camino Frances from Roncesvalles. I needed knee braces, lots of ibuprofen, and hiking poles to continue my Camino and, to the end, if I tried to stop with the ibuprofen or knee brace, I found that I couldn't make it and needed to resume them. I don't think that is far off from taking an occasional rest day for my knees. (I also took a couple of rest days in the course of my Camino after the knee problems emerged.)
I don't think I have a bodily impairment. If I did, I wouldn't have been able to walk the San Salvador and Primitivo last summer without any knee brace or ibuprofen or pain. Two routes much more challenging to the knees than the Frances. I just needed to let my knees heal and support them better on future long walks. Which is apparently what Billy is doing.
While my doctors have never proactively recommended a Camino, they have suggested it is a good thing, as long as I pay attention and listen to my body. They haven't responded that it would wear my body out like a professional athlete's body leading to early retirement.
In addition to seeing a PT to determine why you have knee pain and using poles, check out ChiWalking. I used to be a ChiWalking and ChiRunning certified coach and for most people our form and gait is incorrect. You can google it and there are YouTube videos. You may be able to find a coach where you live. Dialing in form and gait will absolutely help on the downhills.On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
Best piece of advice I received was from a sports physical therapist...the trick is to not put blunt pressure on your knees to begin with . We tend to lock our knees in place to brace for a decent, akin to planting a stump on the pavement. This jars the joint. The idea behind reducing knee pain in decent is to pay attention to loose knees, soft landings. Make sure to bend at the knees, lift knees higher than in a usual flat terrain gait. Think 'walking like a stork' or similar tall bird.On 2 previous caminos I had to take rest days due to my knees becoming very sore from going down steep hills. Is there any exercise or precaution I can practice to avoid this reoccurring. I'd like to do Norte in September but fear the down hills will injur my knees.
I had horrible knee pain when walking downhill from arthritis. I used poles and did a switch back strategy. Worked a little at first. A wonderful woman came to my rescue on the long down hill approach to Ribadiso coaching me to walk backwards. I used this the rest of my journey and it made it possible for me to complete my way. It does get some odd looks, but it works! Buen Camino.Agree a good PT is in order, and the suggestions offered here are all consistent with the advice I received from mine. I did the Norte/Primitivo last spring, and I think the combo of poles (I think two are best for this purpose), bent knees and smaller steps worked for me. I still had some swelling after some of the longer descents, but with some ibuprofen and an application of Bio Freeze to aid recovery it was manageable.
For what it's worth, I will add that as part of my recovery from an earler knee injury, my PT recommended including backwards walking in my training - the idea being if you're only walking forward, you only develop part of your leg muscles; walking backwards helps develop the whole muscle (and that to prevent knee injuries you also need to strengthen the muscles above and below the knee).
The advice was to alternate 1-2 minutes of backwards with 3-6 minutes of forward throughout the walk. Although the injury healed before I began my Camino, I found that it was so helpful that I continue to try to do it 2-3 times/week - I found it really works leg muscles in ways that forward walking doesn't - I seem to be able to walk for miles going forward feeling almost nothing in my legs, but after a few minutes walking backward, I feel the fatigue in the muscles and particularly on uphills/downhills feel a different stretch in the psoas, which makes me think it's doing something and must be helpful, so I've kept it as part of weekly routine. Your foot also strikes the ground in a different fashion, toe to heel instead of heel to toe.
It's probably safest to do this on a local school track, but I live in a relatively low-traffic area and found a nice 4 mile loop with relatively smooth roads, crossing to the other side of the road for the backwards portions so that while walking backwards I can see cars coming. I know where the smooth parts of the road are, so that's where I turn around to walk backwards, using the side of the road and the middle lane marker to stay centered; I've been doing it long enough now that I barely turn my head to keep on track or avoid bumps/holes. It's slow going at first until you get used to it, and obstructions in the road can be a real hazard. At the time my PT recommended this strategy, I remember reading several articles on it (mostly about backwards running - some claim that you burn more calories backwards, even if it is slower - who knows, that's not why I do it ). It's also an interesting conversation starter! I've had runners, cyclists, even people in cars stop to ask me about it, hahaha!
Works for me too. This is how I got down all 268 stone steps from the chapel of Saint Michel d’Aiguilhe in Le Puy.I had horrible knee pain when walking downhill from arthritis. I used poles and did a switch back strategy. Worked a little at first. A wonderful woman came to my rescue on the long down hill approach to Ribadiso coaching me to walk backwards. I used this the rest of my journey and it made it possible for me to complete my way. It does get some odd looks, but it works! Buen Camino.
I highly recommend not taking the official Camino trail down to Roncesvalles. There is a gentler way to the right. It is on the Buen Camino app, and shown here on the Gronze website.This is all so interesting. Thanks to everyone sharing your experiences. I’m wondering how I will do on the descent to Roncevalles next week and will keep these tips in mind.
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