- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2012
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And now I wonder: do I really serve the common good by providing answers to every question? I understand that for first time travellers any adventure is the big adventure but I am not sure that I serve them well with my list of beds, meals, beers and beautiful views. Where is their opportunity for discovery if I serve them 'camino on a plate'? Where is their opportunity for growth if I confine them to a nice tidy, tight, "camino box'?
Hasta que punto es el siguente pueblo? Hay un bar?
... maybe a more satisfactory and ultimately rewarding approach would be to leave well enough alone and leave the guidebooks for the heavily traveled caminos.
You've provided this new pilgrim with much knowledge and humor and encouragement, so that I'm looking forward to the unexpected, the unplanned, and learning to live in the moment. I don't think any first timer has a clue what to expect until they experience it. Thanks for what you've done for me. And I, too, can't find my glassesA few recent posts and members' scratchy responses (me too) have made me ponder one of those questions for the Internet Age. The one posited in this thread title.
The first time I went hiking in Spain the 'The Leader' was still on his throne and the Guardia Civil certainly weren't civil to a hairy youth of dubious means. My 'guide books' were Homage to Catalonia; As I walked Out One Midsummers Morning; A Moment of War, and South from Granada amongst others. I 'navigated' by compass and the sun for general direction and following the notion that as there was a road / track it was bound to go somewhere: and where it went was where I was going. I learnt a lot; encountered many surprises and found that Spain was just like home only different. The landscapes were spectacular, or dull. The weather was what it was. The people kind, or not. Some bars did wonderful food, some didn't. That a barn on some high vega was more likely to be bug-free than a shared bed in a fonda.
I can pour a glass of rough wine, nibble a chalky piece of sheep or goats cheese, close my eyes and be back on those 'caminos' even now when age dictates that I have no idea where I have put my glasses. The self-confidence, acuity and adaptability I gained from those adventures were life skills that have served me well. And now I wonder: do I really serve the common good by providing answers to every question? I understand that for first time travellers any adventure is the big adventure but I am not sure that I serve them well with my list of beds, meals, beers and beautiful views. Where is their opportunity for discovery if I serve them 'camino on a plate'? Where is their opportunity for growth if I confine them to a nice tidy, tight, "camino box'?
Hasta que punto es el siguente pueblo? Hay un bar?
As I walked Out One Midsummers Morning - great book
interesting thread, cheers
it seems worth it to me that we, as a forum, continue to provide the aid of our experience and common sense with patience for those considering the exterior pilgrimage . . . so that they might more readily make the interior one.
...we all need a little help along the way, Laurie. Some of us more so than others. Thanks for the help...This is a great thread, hope to get a lot of thought provoking responses. It has made me think about my own approach to the Camino. I will readily admit that I fall in the category of trying to be helpful helpful helpful, maybe to a ridiculous degree, and probably in the process I remove some of the mystery and challenge for others. My MO is that I walk an untraveled Camino, the less known the better, which means that I get lost frequently, don't know what to expect, and revel in the freedom and sense of competency that comes from having figured it out and having enjoyed it. And then, once back home, I set about trying to help others who may want a bit more understanding of what lies ahead. But maybe I lessen their own experience in some way, because now they have more crutches than I did. Hmmmmm. True, no one has to read the perhaps ridiculously meticulous detail of the guides that I've helped to write, but maybe a more satisfactory and ultimately rewarding approach would be to leave well enough alone and leave the guidebooks for the heavily traveled caminos.
...re writing guides with 'ridiculously meticulous detail', I'm so glad there are those who can. I learnt how to hike using trail books like these: turn right at X, turn left at Y, follow the signs. Now I'm more relaxed...
... Laurie, keep on writing. Bless you.
I read Battlefield Earth as a teenager, and, after saving pretty much the entire universe, Johnny Goodboy Tyler reflects with regret on how his son has all these great advancements, but has never tracked and hunted a puma using a club. Thank you, Tinca Goodboy Tinker for such a great thread!However I have a genuine concern that the capacity for adventure, enterprise, self-reliance, personal responsibility and managed risk-taking are being eroded.
A few recent posts and members' scratchy responses (me too) have made me ponder one of those questions for the Internet Age. The one posited in this thread title.
The first time I went hiking in Spain the 'The Leader' was still on his throne and the Guardia Civil certainly weren't civil to a hairy youth of dubious means. My 'guide books' were Homage to Catalonia; As I walked Out One Midsummers Morning; A Moment of War, and South from Granada amongst others. I 'navigated' by compass and the sun for general direction and following the notion that as there was a road / track it was bound to go somewhere: and where it went was where I was going. I learnt a lot; encountered many surprises and found that Spain was just like home only different. The landscapes were spectacular, or dull. The weather was what it was. The people kind, or not. Some bars did wonderful food, some didn't. That a barn on some high vega was more likely to be bug-free than a shared bed in a fonda.
I can pour a glass of rough wine, nibble a chalky piece of sheep or goats cheese, close my eyes and be back on those 'caminos' even now when age dictates that I have no idea where I have put my glasses. The self-confidence, acuity and adaptability I gained from those adventures were life skills that have served me well. And now I wonder: do I really serve the common good by providing answers to every question? I understand that for first time travellers any adventure is the big adventure but I am not sure that I serve them well with my list of beds, meals, beers and beautiful views. Where is their opportunity for discovery if I serve them 'camino on a plate'? Where is their opportunity for growth if I confine them to a nice tidy, tight, "camino box'?
Hasta que punto es el siguente pueblo? Hay un bar?
What a great thread!
Thanks Tincatinker and all the others who answered, very interesting read.
From my point of view, the Camino will teach you not to worry too much, not to plan too much, when you're walking it. Even when you planned everything in detail before you went there, you'll realize it wouldn't have been necessary at all. It's another lesson to learn.
But for some, that is absolutely unthinkable until they have actually experienced it. If you have been raised a certain way, it can be difficult to shake that off. In my family nobody would ever just have walked off alone, that far from home, with little money and planning. I, and I guess many others also, have grown up believing that it's not safe, and thus something you should never do (At least not alone. Definitely not alone, as a woman. And surely not without having a plan. And a backup plan. And a backup plan for that one. ect., ect., ect...).
Getting information about what you're about to do may be – for some – the only way to find the courage to actually do it. Especially when there's people trying to talk you out of it. In that case, a forum with people who encourage you probably is even more helpful than a guide book.
Doing a lot of planning, in this case, might be an opportunity to learn to plan less.
Me to. That everyone can ask for help or tel his / here story that makes the Forum what it is today.Thank you to all who have posted, and especial thanks for some complimentary remarks and all those 'likes'. I still think that it is a strange world we live in, but it was ever thus. We have all been 'a stranger in a strange land' at least once in our lives. There was a suggestion that there is an air of melancholia to my post, perhaps. Sometimes Churchill's Black Dog nags my heels too. However I have a genuine concern that the capacity for adventure, enterprise, self-reliance, personal responsibility and managed risk-taking are being eroded. If you doubt this put "adventure, enterprise, self-reliance" into Google and see how many packages you get sold.
I am heartened by the many who will keep on answering, reassuring and even forecasting. I will too. If a stranger in my local pub wants to know where the loos are I'll tell them. If a lorry driver wants to get to Slonk Hill from the by-pass I'll give the best directions I can. If a Pilgrim wants to know the best Albergue on the Frances I will say 'the one where you lay your head on a cold and rainy night' but I'll point them at Gronze and the Resources page and I will wish them well in my heart if not in my post.
This Forum is amazing. I'm proud to be a member.
I agree. Also having too many choices cause so much stress!I think the instant knowledge we can have has made people more unsure of things, like having too many choices for a meal in the city you always wonder if something else would have been better. When choices or options are limited or unknown then we have the best experience, imho
Tincatinker,
I am a professor of nursing at a university. The questions my students ask are ones that have been answered many times in many ways. Sometimes when I am tired or a little grouchy I want to just tell them to look at the syllabus or read the assigned readings or actually listen in class rather than ask me the same question for the jillionth time. Then I remember that they are excited and a little bit afraid and that they consider me wise and I sigh deeply on the inside and patiently reassure them.
In some ways that is like the forum. Most of the information has been repeated and repeated, but new and excited peregrinos do not know what they do not know and so they ask. Frankly when I tell people that I am undertaking the Camino this year, I either get a blank stare or and excited barrage of questions. For me the forum and guide books are a way to begin my pilgrimage before it even starts. I can dream and read about it. I can see that others are also excited and dreaming about it, too. Your patient wisdom is a blessing to us. We will build our own memories soon and cherish them just as you do.
Janet
You've provided this new pilgrim with much knowledge and humor and encouragement, so that I'm looking forward to the unexpected, the unplanned, and learning to live in the moment. I don't think any first timer has a clue what to expect until they experience it. Thanks for what you've done for me. And I, too, can't find my glasses
A few recent posts and members' scratchy responses (me too) have made me ponder one of those questions for the Internet Age. The one posited in this thread title.
The first time I went hiking in Spain the 'The Leader' was still on his throne and the Guardia Civil certainly weren't civil to a hairy youth of dubious means. My 'guide books' were Homage to Catalonia; As I walked Out One Midsummers Morning; A Moment of War, and South from Granada amongst others. I 'navigated' by compass and the sun for general direction and following the notion that as there was a road / track it was bound to go somewhere: and where it went was where I was going. I learnt a lot; encountered many surprises and found that Spain was just like home only different. The landscapes were spectacular, or dull. The weather was what it was. The people kind, or not. Some bars did wonderful food, some didn't. That a barn on some high vega was more likely to be bug-free than a shared bed in a fonda.
I can pour a glass of rough wine, nibble a chalky piece of sheep or goats cheese, close my eyes and be back on those 'caminos' even now when age dictates that I have no idea where I have put my glasses. The self-confidence, acuity and adaptability I gained from those adventures were life skills that have served me well. And now I wonder: do I really serve the common good by providing answers to every question? I understand that for first time travellers any adventure is the big adventure but I am not sure that I serve them well with my list of beds, meals, beers and beautiful views. Where is their opportunity for discovery if I serve them 'camino on a plate'? Where is their opportunity for growth if I confine them to a nice tidy, tight, "camino box'?
Hasta que punto es el siguente pueblo? Hay un bar?
Hola, @PeterD1951. No need for concern. All the world walks the Caminos... the destitute, the fabulously wealthy and every convolution between. The pilgrims who contribute to forums are but a few.......My major concern is that, after reading the forums for several months, walking the Camino seems to have become a very middle class thing to do. A bit like music festivals really.
Thank you to all who have posted, and especial thanks for some complimentary remarks and all those 'likes'. I still think that it is a strange world we live in, but it was ever thus. We have all been 'a stranger in a strange land' at least once in our lives. There was a suggestion that there is an air of melancholia to my post, perhaps. Sometimes Churchill's Black Dog nags my heels too. However I have a genuine concern that the capacity for adventure, enterprise, self-reliance, personal responsibility and managed risk-taking are being eroded. If you doubt this put "adventure, enterprise, self-reliance" into Google and see how many packages you get sold.
I am heartened by the many who will keep on answering, reassuring and even forecasting. I will too. If a stranger in my local pub wants to know where the loos are I'll tell them. If a lorry driver wants to get to Slonk Hill from the by-pass I'll give the best directions I can. If a Pilgrim wants to know the best Albergue on the Frances I will say 'the one where you lay your head on a cold and rainy night' but I'll point them at Gronze and the Resources page and I will wish them well in my heart if not in my post.
This Forum is amazing. I'm proud to be a member.
My oldest son is 17 too, and I lose about 5 IQ points each week because I don't understand him or his world. I'm patiently waiting for the day far into the future when he asks what in essence is the very question @Tincatinker asked, albeit in a very different world. He'll be surveying the long arc of his own life, and that of his children and possibly even grandchildren. I'll smile because it will be the very same question that my grandfather 100 generations before me asked, and I will be a genius once more in my son's eyes. As well, all heaven will likely rejoice as another person, after long life, discovers wisdom is not the same thing as knowledge.He wants to study physics and he wants to change the world... he's 17. He says that we're just looking at the world through our eyes... his adventures will be very different than ours. He says his age group are children from the internet age and that we just cant imagine what it's like walking in their footsteps.
My oldest son is 17 too, and I lose about 5 IQ points each week because I don't understand him or his world. I'm patiently waiting for the day far into the future when he asks what in essence is the very question @Tincatinker asked, albeit in a very different world. He'll be surveying the long arc of his own life, and that of his children and possibly even grandchildren. I'll smile because it will be the very same question that my grandfather 100 generations before me asked, and I will be a genius once more in my son's eyes. As well, all heaven will likely rejoice as another person, after long life, discovers wisdom is not the same thing as knowledge.
Yes, it is amazing how incredibly brilliant I became once each of my 5 daughters turned about 22 lolMy oldest son is 17 too, and I lose about 5 IQ points each week because I don't understand him or his world. I'm patiently waiting for the day far into the future when he asks what in essence is the very question @Tincatinker asked, albeit in a very different world. He'll be surveying the long arc of his own life, and that of his children and possibly even grandchildren. I'll smile because it will be the very same question that my grandfather 100 generations before me asked, and I will be a genius once more in my son's eyes. As well, all heaven will likely rejoice as another person, after long life, discovers wisdom is not the same thing as knowledge.
Great thread and excellent discussion going on.@Tincatinker, I read this to my son last night over dinner and asked him if he felt it was all a bit too easy these days... that perhaps our generation had 'been there and done that' (his words not mine); he was a little put out at the idea
He felt that his age group have different discoveries to make and their own different priorities.
He wants to study physics and he wants to change the world... he's 17. He says that we're just looking at the world through our eyes... his adventures will be very different than ours. He says his age group are children from the internet age and that we just cant imagine what it's like walking in their footsteps.
It was an interesting conversation and it reminded me again how articulate my son has become and that he is no longer a boy... I like the way he thinks and his outlook on the world. Anyway... thank you for the question as it provided an interesting topic.
This thread is the best I've read in a long, long time. It was a broad enough query to get everyone thinking. I love the way that the thinking evolves over several days, and it's clear that people take away the cue, let it resonate, and come back to pontificate. This will be one for the books.
I'll never forget when my two nephews drove down through France (from the UK) to visit me in the Haute Savoie (an easy 800 km trip using well sign posted motorways). On their return home, their stepfather asked what route they had taken and what departments they had driven through. Their response? ''We don't know, we just followed the SatNav instructions''.Personally, I hate GPS etc, but I'm old enough to have known that you can manage without those things and that getting lost isn't a major tragedy...
Personally, I hate GPS etc, but I'm old enough to have known that you can manage without those things and that getting lost isn't a major tragedy, but I think there are a great many folks in the world now who have never known that or have long forgotten it and their stress level without these things would be astronomically higher than anybody's would have been forty years ago, regardless of circumstances.
We live in a world that finds it profitable to keep everyone fearful all the time and people are just going to bring that with them, so why make it harder?
Sorry I hit post too soon. Supposed to say well saidSaid
A few recent posts and members' scratchy responses (me too) have made me ponder one of those questions for the Internet Age. The one posited in this thread title.
The first time I went hiking in Spain the 'The Leader' was still on his throne and the Guardia Civil certainly weren't civil to a hairy youth of dubious means. My 'guide books' were Homage to Catalonia; As I walked Out One Midsummers Morning; A Moment of War, and South from Granada amongst others. I 'navigated' by compass and the sun for general direction and following the notion that as there was a road / track it was bound to go somewhere: and where it went was where I was going. I learnt a lot; encountered many surprises and found that Spain was just like home only different. The landscapes were spectacular, or dull. The weather was what it was. The people kind, or not. Some bars did wonderful food, some didn't. That a barn on some high vega was more likely to be bug-free than a shared bed in a fonda.
I can pour a glass of rough wine, nibble a chalky piece of sheep or goats cheese, close my eyes and be back on those 'caminos' even now when age dictates that I have no idea where I have put my glasses. The self-confidence, acuity and adaptability I gained from those adventures were life skills that have served me well. And now I wonder: do I really serve the common good by providing answers to every question? I understand that for first time travellers any adventure is the big adventure but I am not sure that I serve them well with my list of beds, meals, beers and beautiful views. Where is their opportunity for discovery if I serve them 'camino on a plate'? Where is their opportunity for growth if I confine them to a nice tidy, tight, "camino box'?
Hasta que punto es el siguente pueblo? Hay un bar?
A few recent posts and members' scratchy responses (me too) have made me ponder one of those questions for the Internet Age. The one posited in this thread title.
The first time I went hiking in Spain the 'The Leader' was still on his throne and the Guardia Civil certainly weren't civil to a hairy youth of dubious means. My 'guide books' were Homage to Catalonia; As I walked Out One Midsummers Morning; A Moment of War, and South from Granada amongst others. I 'navigated' by compass and the sun for general direction and following the notion that as there was a road / track it was bound to go somewhere: and where it went was where I was going. I learnt a lot; encountered many surprises and found that Spain was just like home only different. The landscapes were spectacular, or dull. The weather was what it was. The people kind, or not. Some bars did wonderful food, some didn't. That a barn on some high vega was more likely to be bug-free than a shared bed in a fonda.
I can pour a glass of rough wine, nibble a chalky piece of sheep or goats cheese, close my eyes and be back on those 'caminos' even now when age dictates that I have no idea where I have put my glasses. The self-confidence, acuity and adaptability I gained from those adventures were life skills that have served me well. And now I wonder: do I really serve the common good by providing answers to every question? I understand that for first time travellers any adventure is the big adventure but I am not sure that I serve them well with my list of beds, meals, beers and beautiful views. Where is their opportunity for discovery if I serve them 'camino on a plate'? Where is their opportunity for growth if I confine them to a nice tidy, tight, "camino box'?
Hasta que punto es el siguente pueblo? Hay un bar?
Today I'm 37 days out from landing in Madrid pre my camino start on 6/3 from Ponferrada.Tincatinker... Yes, some questions might seem triviaand borrow someone else brain Yet, there is a bigger picture...Your valuable service is not influencing my choices unless i choose to. I deeply value developing intuition. The planning part is useful for keeping a concerned husband at peace or the ego fear quiet! For me, been informed is part of the anticipation, but been rigid with expectations is a sure set up for missed opportunities.
At 55, I now have the freedom to do the things that were only seeds of hopes while raising children, paying taxes ... you get the idea... What was most available as inspirations while in my 30's and 40's was the accounts of other fortunate travelers and adventurers. I even read with devastation that there was a name for people like me... "armrest traveler"...WHAT!!! Should I bother dreaming? Was I to be left in the dust because the first baby boomers saw it all before it got "ruined" by popularity? The Annapurna circuit in Nepal? (The apple pie circuit) The Inca Trail? (The gringo trail) The Camino?
(Perigrinos tech- knows? I made this one up) I almost did not answer the call of the Camino as i questioned if i was romanticizing it... But was encouraged by like minded people as on this forum, people who think with their heart!
Nobody knows was a post might stir, for instance, someone shared not looking forward to crowd. A concerned I had as well but would have had difficulty been so transparent about... Some of the most positive replies helped me to reflect on my apprehension of the inevitable "crowd", I now have an open attitude rather than a"dislike"...
I am so grateful for the future pilgrim that asked if it was a good idea to just go with a pair of old comfy shoes? I wonder the same!!! I thought that perhaps I was getting a little vain in buying new equipment... I had no idea that my most loved light hikers (that feels like slippers) were probably going to fail me on the Camino and yes, my new Keen could now be broken without guilt!
Then there are the odd silly questions that has me rolling my eyes and talk back to my computer: "You got to be kidding?" ... Well if my computer was a mirror I might have seen a Camino snob looking back at me!
Thank you to all who dare ask and those who care to answer! The road is sweeter with family!
Well said, this is what the Forum is al about .Tincatinker... Yes, some questions might seem triviaand borrow someone else brain Yet, there is a bigger picture...Your valuable service is not influencing my choices unless i choose to. I deeply value developing intuition. The planning part is useful for keeping a concerned husband at peace or the ego fear quiet! For me, been informed is part of the anticipation, but been rigid with expectations is a sure set up for missed opportunities.
At 55, I now have the freedom to do the things that were only seeds of hopes while raising children, paying taxes ... you get the idea... What was most available as inspirations while in my 30's and 40's was the accounts of other fortunate travelers and adventurers. I even read with devastation that there was a name for people like me... "armrest traveler"...WHAT!!! Should I bother dreaming? Was I to be left in the dust because the first baby boomers saw it all before it got "ruined" by popularity? The Annapurna circuit in Nepal? (The apple pie circuit) The Inca Trail? (The gringo trail) The Camino?
(Perigrinos tech- knows? I made this one up) I almost did not answer the call of the Camino as i questioned if i was romanticizing it... But was encouraged by like minded people as on this forum, people who think with their heart!
Nobody knows was a post might stir, for instance, someone shared not looking forward to crowd. A concerned I had as well but would have had difficulty been so transparent about... Some of the most positive replies helped me to reflect on my apprehension of the inevitable "crowd", I now have an open attitude rather than a"dislike"...
I am so grateful for the future pilgrim that asked if it was a good idea to just go with a pair of old comfy shoes? I wonder the same!!! I thought that perhaps I was getting a little vain in buying new equipment... I had no idea that my most loved light hikers (that feels like slippers) were probably going to fail me on the Camino and yes, my new Keen could now be broken without guilt!
Then there are the odd silly questions that has me rolling my eyes and talk back to my computer: "You got to be kidding?" ... Well if my computer was a mirror I might have seen a Camino snob looking back at me!
Thank you to all who dare ask and those who care to answer! The road is sweeter with family!
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