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Same here. People just need to be aware that permethrin doesn't deter bedbugs or kill them on contact, so you can still get bit. However it does kill them with prolonged contact. I'm less concerned about being bit (I have been on past Caminos, but I don't get much of a reaction), and more concerned about transporting the pests to the next Albergue - or home. That's why I treat my backpack, sleep gear, and all my cloth stuff sacks. The little critters may get in my stuff, but they aren't coming out alive!Permethrin has worked for me on the Camino all these years.
I will continue to use it.
In addition, I practice isolation with my packing. I have a large pack liner with a roll-top closure, that my backpack and everything else goes into for the night.
So funny!You've been bitten EVERY time on the Frances? Remind me not to walk behind you!
Right. IF you do have an encounter with bedbugs it really doesn't take much to de-bedbug your things. Even though I treat my gear with permethrin, if I suspect that I have been in contact with bedbugs I head to a place with a dryer that I can put all my cloth items into for 30 minutes. That will kill the bugs and their eggs. Don't worry about washing first, in fact some items, like down blankets and merino wool clothing is probably better off put into the dryer without getting wet. It's the heat of the dryer that kills the critters.My final word of advice, is to recognize that there ARE bedbugs and you might still get bitten, but rarely is that a huge disaster. Take what precautions you can, but don't let it dominate your camino!
Did you really contaminate the albergue property like this? For a start, if a bed-bug mattress protector is being used, there would be no need to apply further treatment. If not, it might be appropriate to treat your own gear, whether it be with permetrin, DEET or essential oils, but interfering like this with someone elses property seems to be completely unwarranted and unjustified. For a start, not everyone is going to be tolerant of essential oils spread around the place in even small doses in dormitories. I know I would prefer not to sleep anywhere with the offensive smells that seem to emanate from most 'essential' oils.I use simple mint essential oil, in a few drops placed on the mattress protector
I agree with you I have used permethrin and have been bedbug free while around me people had them. So problem solved permethrin works for me.I use permathrin and will continue. You sound like a creative person and all the best to you as you improvise to find another method to deter those critters. I'm sure I would feel claustrophobic and too warm with what you are proposing to use for yourself. My suggestion would be to plan to walk in cooler temperatures.
Did you really contaminate the albergue property like this?
but interfering like this with someone elses property seems to be completely unwarranted and unjustified.
Since bedbugs live in the bed frames, clean sheets are no guarantee of being bed bug free! I have a friend who got her only bed bug bites while staying in a pensión, and using the provided clean sheets rather than her own silk liner.I never experienced Bed Bugs!
Because I slept on clean sheets every night.
Do you have a list of these hotels that offer free laundry service? I have never encountered one, at least not in the 25-35€ range!I almost never paid for sheets and towels or to do a laundry - always free at hotels.
I have heard these same stories from others; hotels provide no guarantee either...although it sure feels good to slide my body between those fresh sheets after days and days in a sleep sack/bag!Since bedbugs live in the bed frames, clean sheets are no guarantee of being bed bug free! I have a friend who got her only bed bug bites while staying in a pensión, and using the provided bedding,
I smile when ask -Laundry was Free at these places.Since bedbugs live in the bed frames, clean sheets are no guarantee of being bed bug free! I have a friend who got her only bed bug bites while staying in a pensión, and using the provided clean sheets rather than her own silk liner.
Do you have a list of these hotels that offer free laundry service? I have never encountered one, at least not in the 25-35€ range!
exaggerated!!!
but what did you think?
I use a few drops of mint essential oil on my sleeping bag and on the mattress cover (disposable) that I use to place under the sleeping bag. I put it on before dinner.
It's natural (maybe you thought about those chemicals .... nobody gives you the right), does not stain, evaporates and does not saturate the room.
And to tell the truth it is most appreciated by those who realized my use.
True or not, it is part of the sadness of our age that we would not be surprized to find this so.Certain world leaders are now saying that mint oil will protect you from the Corona Virus particularly if mixed with household cleaners.
thank you for the "respectable" source.So here's a respectable source for a refutation: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/essential-oils-fail-killing-bed-bugs/
In the morning, all my sleeping things go into a dry bag that is closed up and put into my pack.
No, not more clothes! I have one dedicated evening/sleeping outfit and another day/walking outfit. That also reduces the laundry need - my evening outfit can go a few days without washing, and my day outfit can be a bit dirty. I wash only my socks and underwear (including a merino tank top "undershirt") every day. Other things when needed. My warm layer occasionally is needed for double duty, but I simply try to be aware of that, and examine and shake it out carefully before wearing or packing.I am having trouble figuring out how to incorporate your step of isolating clothing. I assume your method requires separate dedicated sleeping clothes, which would mean more clothes to carry
Exactly my "system", too, and it works great...wouldn't change a thing.No, not more clothes! I have one dedicated evening/sleeping outfit and another day/walking outfit. That also reduces the laundry need - my evening outfit can go a few days without washing, and my day outfit can be a bit dirty. I wash only my socks and underwear (including a merino tank top "undershirt") every day. Other things when needed. My warm layer occasionally is needed for double duty
That would be the best place to walk. Then by the time you come through the bedbugs are full and sleepingThis seems like a good idea. It's interesting though, that in three caminos, I have never even once seen anybody do this, even though I see it recommended on this forum fairly often.
Lots of good suggestions in your post, CC. You've been bitten EVERY time on the Frances? Remind me not to walk behind you!
Oh crap, of course somebody got to weasel in a political remark on here.Certain world leaders are now saying that mint oil will protect you from the Corona Virus particularly if mixed with household cleaners.
The placing of the backpack in a trash bin liner is actually very practical. The liner weighs nothing to carry and it and the say clothes pins to seal it up with can easily be carried in an outside pocket. Easy to use and easy to stow away and if sealed will absolutely prevent any stowaways from getting in your pack. The bin liner also has the ability for double duty (something very important when packing light). It can be used as another layer of waterproofing inside the pack on really rainy/snowy days and could even if necessary be used as a poncho in an emergency. Before you start walking roll up your sleeping bag or liner and put inside the trash bin liner/bag and cinch up tight. That way if by some small chance there is a stowaway in it, you have isolated it away from your other stuff and can inspect your bag or liner before using at the next albergue. I always try and pack all my stuff together before I walk in a lighted area in the albergue or outside. I inspect my sleeping bag or liner before putting in the stuff sack and also give it a lot of shaking out. The liner really light colored and has nowhere for a bug to hide and I would see it immediately anyway. A good argument for light colored bedding.I treated my rucksack with Permethrin both inside and out. Everything in my rucksack was separated in either dry sacs or ziplock food bags. I took 2 large black bin liners and when I had reached my Albergue everything was placed in a bin liner including the rucksack and sealed with a clip. I had a permethrin under sheet and used a treated silk liner large enough to pull over my head to sleep in. I didn’t get bitten. When you arrive at any accommodation, inspect the room, mattress and bedding for signs of bugs. Don’t let this issue put you off enjoying your Camino and embrace it as all part of the experience! All clothes and bedding can be put in a dryer at high temperature as long as they are dry, without risk of them shrinking, even Lycra sports kit seems to tolerate this!
RJM makes this point very well. I personally prefer to bring a big roll-top dry bag, but I admit it is more expensive and heavier than a plastic trash bag.The placing of the backpack in a trash bin liner is actually very practical.
Estimates of this are really all over the map. That 5% figure came from another referred paper that I couldn't access, so I would not have much confidence in it. But certainly many people are not sensitive to bedbug bites and the exact percentage is not particularly important.According to this source, it's only 5% of people who have the itchy immune response to bedbugs, at least at first,
I think people will live and let live, and I don't see why a simple arrangement wouldn't be allowed. (Although "contraption" conjures up some not-so-simple images, and perhaps Covid restrictions will have the acceptability of additional materials on your bed.) For me, though, I find that I do not want to be bothered with any contraptions on the Camino, when I am packing, unpacking, going to bed, etc. If I made anything complicated, I would end up not using it, given that this is not a major health issue. That is why I suggest a simple silk liner that closes up well and is big enough to pull over your head. A silk liner can also serve as a hot-weather sleeping bag by itself, or as a cold-weather insulation layer. The netting would not serve in that way. Combine that with some simple isolation techniques and you will reduce your risks considerably.if I show up with some sort of insect net contraption, how judgey are people likely to be? Might some albergue owners forbid it? Or would everyone just live and let live?
I use a white trash compactor bag inside my pack, not a trash bag. The size is roomy without being humongous, it has enough length to roll up at the top and one serves the abuse of at least two+ caminos.RJM makes this point very well. I personally prefer to bring a big roll-top dry bag, but I admit it is more expensive and heavier than a plastic trash bag
@C clearly - Pyrethrins are derived from pyrethrum plants. Permethrin is a pyrethroid (ie mimics the action of the natural pyrethrins) first made in the early 1970s.Permethrin (derived from a natural product) kills bedbugs, unless they are resistant. The necessary type and length of exposure can be argued.
DEET, picardin and some proprietary compounds have been shown to be effective repellents, but the concentration is important. Low concentrations (~5%) offer little protection. I recall finding the full text of this article through my work library, which doesn't help the sceptics who downplay anything they cannot read themselves even when it is published in peer-reviewed journalsThere is no proven repellent.
Hey, DevereUx, when you write your bag is sprayed before you leave, do you mean before you leave home, or every morning before you leave the albergue?I agree with all the above. While they do exist (everywhere in the world), I've used permethrin and never had a problem().
I do have a little spray bottle of the stuff and on occasion, I've sprayed the corners of the bed frame and the feet of the bed. My bag is sprayed before I leave and my sleep sack is (in theory) bug proof. On the Camino, stay tuned to what others are saying. Quite often, someone has a friend ahead who has knowledge of problems. I've not had a problem. So, I wouldn't consider it a big issue. If you don't feel comfortable in a place, move.
actually, as we move forward, given the present pandemic, I think we will never see a cleaner Camino in our lifetime! Everyone is spraying everything!!
@TAF comment basically provided me the proverbial light bulb above the head when she mentioned putting her pack in a bin bag everyday. I have done that when on actual outdoor backpacking treks where I leave my backpack outside and the heavy mil bin bag keeps it dry, but for some reason it never occurred to me to do that as a way to keep my stuff protected from others cross contaminating in albergues. It could also have the added benefit of another layer of deterrent (very minor) from a thief. Having to open the bin bag up takes time and a bit more noise added to the attempt. I believe on my next Camino (God willing) I will bin bag the backpack daily. Takes only a minute and not invasive to anyone around me. In fact may convert fellow pilgrims to doing the same when they see it.@RJM... Great and thorough advice.
Hi, Mycroft.Hey, DevereUx, when you write your bag is sprayed before you leave, do you mean before you leave home, or every morning before you leave the albergue?
I use a few drops of mint essential oil on my sleeping bag and on the mattress cover (disposable) that I use to place under the sleeping bag. I put it on before dinner.
There is clearly a word usage issue here. I would clearly distinguish between a disposable sheet and a mattress protector fitted to a mattress - they are two quite different things to me.I use simple mint essential oil, in a few drops placed on the mattress protector
So before leaving home--what brand of spray do you use? Is there a particular strength I should look for? Thanks!Hi, Mycroft.
Before I leave. It lasts a good while.
l also sprayed (really soaked) my backpack inside and out and used dry bags to separate stuff.
They're just bugs. Funny how big a deal it's made. Forty five days on the Camino it was of so little concern to me and fellow walkers. Most bites were on women on their lower legs. I wonder if not bedbugs but insect bites from going out to the brush to go potty..Hi all. This is my first post, although I've been reading for awhile to get an idea of what sorts of things to think about in advance of walking the Camino. One that jumps out is the bedbug problem. Many pilgrims bring permethrin-treated sleeping bag liners, etc. But I found one thread where several people claimed that this doesn't work. I've now done enough research on my own to know that many bedbugs have developed resistance to permethrin, and so the treatment does not work if the particular bugs you encounter are resistant. The other complication is that not everyone is allergic to the bites, although repeated exposure increases the likelihood and speed of the reaction. So many people claim that they do X and haven't had a problem, but it might just be that they are being bitten but not reacting to the bites.
So my plan at this point is to make a sack out of insect netting or tulle that is big enough to get completely inside with my stuff and zipper shut. It would have some sort of plastic pop-up structure over the head, like a bivy-style tent, to keep the netting off my face. It looks like there are some bed-size pop-up mosquito-net tents being sold on amazon, although they don't fold down enough to go into a backpack.
Does the wisdom of the forum foresee any problems with this? Thanks in advance for any replies.
Jennifer
This is what I use
Thanks, t. I will look for it!This is what I use
View attachment 79014
Thanks. I have edited my post, and hope it is more accurate now.@C clearly - Pyrethrins are derived from pyrethrum plants. Permethrin is a pyrethroid (ie mimics the action of the natural pyrethrins) first made in the early 1970s.
DEET, picardin and some proprietary compounds have been shown to be effective repellents, but the concentration is important. Low concentrations (~5%) offer little protection. I recall finding the full text of this article through my work library, which doesn't help the sceptics who downplay anything they cannot read themselves even when it is published in peer-reviewed journals.
I think that you may misunderstand why so many posters in this forum make "a big deal" out of bed bugs. The primary concern of most, even those who may have little or no reaction to the bugs, is the risk of taking them home to multiply. They can thoroughly infest a home, feast on, and cause severe reactions in, susceptible persons who enter the home, and be very difficult to get rid of. An expensive and time-consuming process by professional exterminators is sometimes necessary. Some of us go through an elaborate process of decontamination when we arrive home post-camino, to avoid this.They're just bugs. Funny how big a deal it's made. Forty five days on the Camino it was of so little concern to me and fellow walkers. Most bites were on women on their lower legs. I wonder if not bedbugs but insect bites from going out to the brush to go potty..
You do have a valid point. By far I see more concern and discussion about bedbugs on this forum than I ever have on almost 200 days on the various Camino routes. Sure, a few times, but so few and unimportant I barely even remember them.They're just bugs. Funny how big a deal it's made. Forty five days on the Camino it was of so little concern to me and fellow walkers. Most bites were on women on their lower legs. I wonder if not bedbugs but insect bites from going out to the brush to go potty..
I think a better way to phrase my question is, if I show up with some sort of insect net contraption, how judgey are people likely to be? Might some albergue owners forbid it? Or would everyone just live and let live?
Hi all. This is my first post, although I've been reading for awhile to get an idea of what sorts of things to think about in advance of walking the Camino. One that jumps out is the bedbug problem.
Does the wisdom of the forum foresee any problems with this? Thanks in advance for any replies.
Jennifer
Yes, both times I was bitten (2 different Caminos) it was in a nice (expensive) apartment with clean sheets.Since bedbugs live in the bed frames, clean sheets are no guarantee of being bed bug free! I have a friend who got her only bed bug bites while staying in a pensión, and using the provided clean sheets rather than her own silk liner.
Do you have a list of these hotels that offer free laundry service? I have never encountered one, at least not in the 25-35€ range!
I agree with you, I have a sensitivity with many strong scents, especially essential oils which I find very strong. I have had to change rooms due to people using essential oils.There is clearly a word usage issue here. I would clearly distinguish between a disposable sheet and a mattress protector fitted to a mattress - they are two quite different things to me.
My objection to people using any unnecessary chemicals, natural or otherwise, stands. Treat your own gear by all means, but I object to people using them in a dormitory or common area. You are not in your own home, and you have no idea how other people might react to something you use. As for others finding 'essential' oils pleasant, don't kid yourself - not everyone does.
Yay, Bedbugs!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for asking!
Every time I've been on the Camino Frances, I have been bitten. Permethrin generally kills them, but not necessarily before they bite you.
What I see as the biggest problem with your suggestion is the nuisance factor and looking weird with a popup structure. Everyone else will be ignoring the bedbug problem. I like to have something subtle and simple. My current method is to use a fairly large silk liner. (Silk only because it is a good lightweight fabric that feels soft against the skin). I and my sleeping bag fit inside it, with enough length that I can cover my head if I choose. With lightweight silk, you can still breath through it, so you don't need a structure to hold it up. I added a zipper to the silk liner (it came only with ties) but it does not go all the way around. Realistically, I sleep with my face peeking out - if I think I am in bedbug territory, I put Deet repellent on my face.
In addition, I practice isolation with my packing. I have a large pack liner with a roll-top closure, that my backpack and everything else goes into for the night. In the morning, all my sleeping things go into a dry bag that is closed up and put into my pack. If I don't develop any itchy spots by arrival at my destination, I assume I was not invaded during the previous night. If I do develop itchy spots, my first stop would be at a laundromat to put things through the dryer. Having isolated the most exposed things (from sleeping), the decontamination process is a bit simpler and I don't need to sanitize my actual pack.
My final word of advice, is to recognize that there ARE bedbugs and you might still get bitten, but rarely is that a huge disaster. Take what precautions you can, but don't let it dominate your camino!
is that the potty on which to lower the bum or "going potty" as in "barking mad" from reading these posts?They're just bugs. Funny how big a deal it's made. Forty five days on the Camino it was of so little concern to me and fellow walkers. Most bites were on women on their lower legs. I wonder if not bedbugs but insect bites from going out to the brush to go potty..
My elaborate process when arriving home was leaving my bag outside and entering the house in my scivies. Not a big deal. To me it just seems like an over reaction.I think that you may misunderstand why so many posters in this forum make "a big deal" out of bed bugs. The primary concern of most, even those who may have little or no reaction to the bugs, is the risk of taking them home to multiply. They can thoroughly infest a home, feast on, and cause severe reactions in, susceptible persons who enter the home, and be very difficult to get rid of. An expensive and time-consuming process by professional exterminators is sometimes necessary. Some of us go through an elaborate process of decontamination when we arrive home post-camino, to avoid this.
I also don't want to be the person who is spreading them along the Camino from albergue to albergue.I think that you may misunderstand why so many posters in this forum make "a big deal" out of bed bugs. The primary concern of most, even those who may have little or no reaction to the bugs, is the risk of taking them home to multiply. They can thoroughly infest a home, feast on, and cause severe reactions in, susceptible persons who enter the home, and be very difficult to get rid of. An expensive and time-consuming process by professional exterminators is sometimes necessary. Some of us go through an elaborate process of decontamination when we arrive home post-camino, to avoid this.
RJM makes this point very well. I personally prefer to bring a big roll-top dry bag, but I admit it is more expensive and heavier than a plastic trash bag.
Estimates of this are really all over the map. That 5% figure came from another referred paper that I couldn't access, so I would not have much confidence in it. But certainly many people are not sensitive to bedbug bites and the exact percentage is not particularly important.
I think people will live and let live, and I don't see why a simple arrangement wouldn't be allowed. (Although "contraption" conjures up some not-so-simple images, and perhaps Covid restrictions will have the acceptability of additional materials on your bed.) For me, though, I find that I do not want to be bothered with any contraptions on the Camino, when I am packing, unpacking, going to bed, etc. If I made anything complicated, I would end up not using it, given that this is not a major health issue. That is why I suggest a simple silk liner that closes up well and is big enough to pull over your head. A silk liner can also serve as a hot-weather sleeping bag by itself, or as a cold-weather insulation layer. The netting would not serve in that way. Combine that with some simple isolation techniques and you will reduce your risks considerably.
Since the onset of Covid, I have developed a new understanding of how there are many people who will not accept scientific information as the basis for their beliefs and decisions. This is certainly true about bedbugs. It is not difficult to research the subject and separate the knowns from the unknowns and understand the differences. The knowns:
Edited to correct some statements in points 3 and 5 above.
- Bedbugs are transferred along the Camino by pilgrims, to all types of accommodation. The seasonal and price variations can be argued.
- Some people are allergic to bedbug saliva and some people are not. The percentage can be argued.
- Permethrin and related chemicals kill bedbugs, unless they are resistant. The necessary type and length of exposure can be argued.
- Heat kills bedbugs at all stages (roughly 20 minutes over 55 C), as does cold (several days at -17C). Not much argument here.
- The effectiveness of typical Insect repellents has not been well-enough studied to provide certainty. My guess is that many insect repellents would have some effect on bedbugs, which is why I sometimes use DEET on exposed skin. Many people believe that essential oils work, and it might be so, but that is in the "unknown" category. Many people intensely dislike the smell of DEET and essential oils, or have concerns about safety. Incidentally "natural" does not mean "safe."
Because some strains are still sensitive, I might spray at least some of my gear with permethrin. I hate to contribute to the problem, though, since the more it's used, the more the bugs will become resistant.
I think a better way to phrase my question is, if I show up with some sort of insect net contraption, how judgey are people likely to be? Might some albergue owners forbid it? Or would everyone just live and let live?
There is clearly a word usage issue here. I would clearly distinguish between a disposable sheet and a mattress protector fitted to a mattress - they are two quite different things to me.
My objection to people using any unnecessary chemicals, natural or otherwise, stands. Treat your own gear by all means, but I object to people using them in a dormitory or common area. You are not in your own home, and you have no idea how other people might react to something you use. As for others finding 'essential' oils pleasant, don't kid yourself - not everyone does.
Very funnyMost bites were on women on their lower legs. I wonder if not bedbugs but insect bites from going out to the brush to go potty..
I had a friend who walked the CF in 2005,2006 & 2009. He was telling me that if bedbugs were reported, the albergue had to close until treatment had eradicated them. I totally believed him and I never came across any bedbugs either of the times I have walked the CF. However, it seems to be that the bedbug situation has become more prevalent and persistent in recent years. My advice is check the mattress and bed frame. If you see them or signs of them, report it to the hospitalero and find another place to sleep.Hi all. This is my first post, although I've been reading for awhile to get an idea of what sorts of things to think about in advance of walking the Camino. One that jumps out is the bedbug problem. Many pilgrims bring permethrin-treated sleeping bag liners, etc. But I found one thread where several people claimed that this doesn't work. I've now done enough research on my own to know that many bedbugs have developed resistance to permethrin, and so the treatment does not work if the particular bugs you encounter are resistant. The other complication is that not everyone is allergic to the bites, although repeated exposure increases the likelihood and speed of the reaction. So many people claim that they do X and haven't had a problem, but it might just be that they are being bitten but not reacting to the bites.
So my plan at this point is to make a sack out of insect netting or tulle that is big enough to get completely inside with my stuff and zipper shut. It would have some sort of plastic pop-up structure over the head, like a bivy-style tent, to keep the netting off my face. It looks like there are some bed-size pop-up mosquito-net tents being sold on amazon, although they don't fold down enough to go into a backpack.
Does the wisdom of the forum foresee any problems with this? Thanks in advance for any replies.
Jennifer
A number of Bedbug threads do stress not allowing your pack to come into contact with the bed mattress and coverings. This is to avoid picking up or transferring bed bugs to / from the bed. Where possible I use a strap on my pack with a snap hook to clip it onto the framework of the bed well clear of the mattress. I also use strong PVC rubble bags to store my clothes and stuff in. A blast of permethrin in the pack helps with the control of insects.Same here. People just need to be aware that permethrin doesn't deter bedbugs or kill them on contact, so you can still get bit. However it does kill them with prolonged contact. I'm less concerned about being bit (I have been on past Caminos, but I don't get much of a reaction), and more concerned about transporting the pests to the next Albergue - or home. That's why I treat my backpack, sleep gear, and all my cloth stuff sacks. The little critters may get in my stuff, but they aren't coming out alive!
This topic has been rehearsed so many times on this forum that @ivar seriously considered changing the name to CaminodeBedbug. Sadly the great menthol myth has been given a revival. So here's a respectable source for a refutation: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/essential-oils-fail-killing-bed-bugs/
My advice is check the mattress and bed frame. If you see them or signs of them, report it to the hospitalero and find another place to sleep.
Especially lavender oil. Yuk!Mint essential oil (or Lavender, choke!) would not bother a bedbug, but it WOULD bother me. Please don't.
I think that given the current COVID situation, bedbugs may be least of your problems. The sanitary conditions will probably be much, much better and as such will help to alleviate this problem. Do you really want to carry the extra weight?Hi all. This is my first post, although I've been reading for awhile to get an idea of what sorts of things to think about in advance of walking the Camino. One that jumps out is the bedbug problem. Many pilgrims bring permethrin-treated sleeping bag liners, etc. But I found one thread where several people claimed that this doesn't work. I've now done enough research on my own to know that many bedbugs have developed resistance to permethrin, and so the treatment does not work if the particular bugs you encounter are resistant. The other complication is that not everyone is allergic to the bites, although repeated exposure increases the likelihood and speed of the reaction. So many people claim that they do X and haven't had a problem, but it might just be that they are being bitten but not reacting to the bites.
So my plan at this point is to make a sack out of insect netting or tulle that is big enough to get completely inside with my stuff and zipper shut. It would have some sort of plastic pop-up structure over the head, like a bivy-style tent, to keep the netting off my face. It looks like there are some bed-size pop-up mosquito-net tents being sold on amazon, although they don't fold down enough to go into a backpack.
Does the wisdom of the forum foresee any problems with this? Thanks in advance for any replies.
Jennifer
This is the focal point of the bedbugs topic. And it's the first thing I wrote in my first post. But the arrows have fallen on something elseif bedbugs were reported, the albergue had to close until treatment had eradicated them.
Yes, I'm planning on walking in either the fall or spring, and I'm not particularly prone to claustrophobia. The idea of a tiny tent sounds cozy.
I immediately apologize for any incorrect terms or for the absence of particular details: the English language is not my native language. And I also want to apologize to @jag, which probably had to absorb interventions that were not in keeping with the question presented. Having said that, I will look good in the future, in expressing a point of view.
Wish you a serenity time
So before leaving home--what brand of spray do you use? Is there a particular strength I should look for? Thanks!
There really isn't any need to do that. I doubt very many of us here have native language levels of skill in a second language, and generally don't expect that from others. After all, there are two major versions of English used on this forum, with the attendant misunderstandings from both different word usage and grammatical convention. Even if it takes a couple of posts to clarify what we mean, it is generally worth it in the end.I immediately apologize for any incorrect terms or for the absence of particular details: the English language is not my native language.
Yes, I found it easy to apply, it lasts 6 weeks or so, works for a whole Camino. A bottle did 2 packs and 2 sleeping bags (outside only) so was quite cost effective. It seems to be readily available as we can get it in New Zealand (and we are as remote as it gets).I use what Trecile used. Good stuff!
None of the Sawyers products have been registered for sale in Australia. An alternative is Equip Debugger, which can be obtained from serious outdoors stores.Yes, I found it easy to apply, it lasts 6 weeks or so, works for a whole Camino. A bottle did 2 packs and 2 sleeping bags (outside only) so was quite cost effective. It seems to be readily available as we can get it in New Zealand (and we are as remote as it gets).
It's not something to worry over, but it's smart to be prepared and know what to do if you encounter bedbugs.I would recommend not starting your journey with this worry.
You were just luckyBecause I found that I could not get a good night's sleep in shared accomodations (plus I snore) I almost never stayed in crowded Albergues, choosing pensions, casa rurals, quintas and hotels always getting a private room.
I never experienced Bed Bugs!
Because I slept on clean sheets every night.
Hotels, even high end are no guarantee to be bed bug free.Thanks, everyone, for the responses.
C Clearly, I like the idea of isolating sleep gear in case it needs to be heated in a dryer. I was already planning on using a pack liner to keep things dry, but will add a second sealed bag for my sleep system.
Around here (Tennessee) we have problems with chiggers and poison ivy, and I react very badly to both of those. Either will produce weeks to months of misery for me. I actually have a discolored scar on my arm from poison ivy. So I'm highly motivated to avoid anything in nature that will provoke an immune response.
According to this source, it's only 5% of people who have the itchy immune response to bedbugs, at least at first, and maybe I'd be one of the 95% who don't. But I'd rather not find out the hard way, if I can help it.
Terry, I can't really afford to stay in hotels every night, and really would prefer the albergues anyway.
Peregrino_Tom, I have read these fora extensively, which is why I wasn't asking for general advice, but proposing a solution that I haven't seen discussed before.
Regarding permethrin, here are some studies discussing the problem of bedbugs becoming resistant, apparently moreso in Europe than the US. This has also been discussed on the forum previously, but I can't find the thread that I'm thinking of specifically
European bedbugs
Testing permethrin-treated sheets
Here is the most relevant graph from the second link. The four lines are four strains collected from four US locations. As you can see, the strain represented by the red line is resistant to being killed by the permethrin-treated fabric. View attachment 79005
This article found that a bit more than a third of Paris bedbugs are resistant to pyrethroids, the class of insecticides that permethrin belongs to.
Because some strains are still sensitive, I might spray at least some of my gear with permethrin. I hate to contribute to the problem, though, since the more it's used, the more the bugs will become resistant.
I think a better way to phrase my question is, if I show up with some sort of insect net contraption, how judgey are people likely to be? Might some albergue owners forbid it? Or would everyone just live and let live?
I would imagine that with all the disinfecting they have to do for covid, the little creatures don't have much chance of survival.Hi all. This is my first post, although I've been reading for awhile to get an idea of what sorts of things to think about in advance of walking the Camino. One that jumps out is the bedbug problem. Many pilgrims bring permethrin-treated sleeping bag liners, etc. But I found one thread where several people claimed that this doesn't work. I've now done enough research on my own to know that many bedbugs have developed resistance to permethrin, and so the treatment does not work if the particular bugs you encounter are resistant. The other complication is that not everyone is allergic to the bites, although repeated exposure increases the likelihood and speed of the reaction. So many people claim that they do X and haven't had a problem, but it might just be that they are being bitten but not reacting to the bites.
So my plan at this point is to make a sack out of insect netting or tulle that is big enough to get completely inside with my stuff and zipper shut. It would have some sort of plastic pop-up structure over the head, like a bivy-style tent, to keep the netting off my face. It looks like there are some bed-size pop-up mosquito-net tents being sold on amazon, although they don't fold down enough to go into a backpack.
Does the wisdom of the forum foresee any problems with this? Thanks in advance for any replies.
Jennifer
Bedbugs laugh at disinfectants!I would imagine that with all the disinfecting they have to do for covid, the little creatures don't have much chance of survival.
OK I will admit that has freaked me out slightly. Is that common? How did you catch them, did you find out?I hesitated to mention this, as it may further freak people out. I never got bedbugs, but I DID come home from the Camino with scabies. Easy to get rid of with proper treatment (and not likely to spread in your house). But man, NOT comfortable before treatment.
OK I will admit that has freaked me out slightly. Is that common? How did you catch them, did you find out?
Amen to that!Oh how I wish bedbugs were our only problem right now
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