Sara_Dhooma
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances (14), Portuguese (15), Le Puy (17), Ingles (17), VDLP (18), Lana (18), Madrid (19) + more
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I love the wilderness and hiking at high elevation for the big mountain views. I also adore places with historical Camino de Santiago significance. Visiting churches and castles along the way would add to my experience, but I am not a fan of big, bustling modern cities.
I'm looking for suggestions for current European long-distance trail segments that are natural & stunningly beautiful, with a connection to the historic medieval pilgrimage route. I prefer staying up high in the mountains, rather than hiking through valleys or plains.
Hi, Sara,Hello,
Since I am at home in Canada during pandemic times I have time to research future hikes.
I am currently hoping to complete an epic solo hike that will cross the European continent and end at Santiago de Compostela (or perhaps continue further south to Gibraltar) in spring 2021. I am in the initial planning stages deciding with countries and trails to piece together. I may begin the hike at Istanbul, but am open to a different start point.
I will be on a small budget and will hope to tent the majority of the time - until I join the Camino routes in Spain and can utilize the albergues. When wild camping is not permitted, I will ask permission from local landowners. I'm an experienced backpacker and comfortable with food carries for up to ten days without resupply.
I love the wilderness and hiking at high elevation for the big mountain views. I also adore places with historical Camino de Santiago significance. Visiting churches and castles along the way would add to my experience, but I am not a fan of big, bustling modern cities.
I'm looking for suggestions for current European long-distance trail segments that are natural & stunningly beautiful, with a connection to the historic medieval pilgrimage route. I prefer staying up high in the mountains, rather than hiking through valleys or plains.
Thanks!
,
Although a lot of trails outside of Spain and France have been labelled "camino" or "Saint James Way" in recent years, they are really just an effort to retrace old trade routes. Not really particular pilgrimage routes.I love the wilderness and hiking at high elevation for the big mountain views. I also adore places with historical Camino de Santiago significance. Visiting churches and castles along the way would add to my experience, but I am not a fan of big, bustling modern cities. I'm looking for suggestions for current European long-distance trail segments that are natural & stunningly beautiful, with a connection to the historic medieval pilgrimage route. I prefer staying up high in the mountains, rather than hiking through valleys or plains.
Looks like the first one who walked it really messed up! Is it the Alpine pub crawl?Although a lot of trails outside of Spain and France have been labelled "camino" or "Saint James Way" in recent years, they are really just an effort to retrace old trade routes. Not really particular pilgrimage routes.
If you want to follow a very special pilgrimage route, have a look at www.4kmh.com. Via Alpina Sacra, a 2700 mile pilgrimage across the Alps. Recently walked by a Catholic priest, brother Johannes (full name: Johannes Maria Schwarz). A lot of it is in German (he is Austrian) but he posted also in English. The link above is in English. Also on Youtube. Truly deserves the label "epic". Makes me wish I was younger. Quote: A pilgrimage traversing the Alps and 8 countries to visit the highest, oldest, most beautiful, most interesting chapels, churches, monasteries and shrines.
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You can start in Trondheim, Norway, and cross the Norw. mountains
Hi Sara from a fellow Ontarioan. I was just wondering if you would run into problems with the 90 day max stay in the schengen countries on such an ambition route?
Really?(although if you apply in advance to the first Schengen country you expect to enter (providing an approximate entry date) you can get a standard 180 day (six month) tourist visa.
Really?
I did not think this was possible...so it would be good news....
Sara, why not start in Moscow?
(Though I have to agree that Northcape would be a wonderful place to start....)
No.Is Russia in the Schengen Treaty??
Really?
I did not think this was possible...so it would be good news....
Hi Sara from a fellow Ontarioan. I was just wondering if you would run into problems with the 90 day max stay in the schengen countries on such an ambition route?
I believe that the Schengen zone countries allow US passport holders to stay for up to 90 days within a rolling 180-day period. (The days that you enter and exit the Schengen zone are counted as full days).BTW if you cross into Gibralter you would likely be going out of the Schengen area and it might be possible to get a reset on the 90 days
To take advantage of the bilateral visa waiver with Denmark, Sara could do a south to north trip (the waiver won't be applicable if she starts in the Nordic countries). So she could walk from Italy or Spain to arrive at the Danish border within 90 days, and then use 90 days to continue through Denmark and the Nordic countries.To stay legally more than 90 days in the Schengen area, research about the Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreements that Canada has with other Schengen countries. For example, Denmark has a Bilateral agreement with Canada: https://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/practical-information/visa/bilateral-visa-agreements/
This won't help, at least for Canadians on the normal Schengen visa. The departure does not reset to 90 more days. You are still only allowed 90 days cumulatively over a rolling 180 day period. On any day, you must be able to count back 180 days and only have been in the Schengen area for 90 of those days. So, leaving for 2 days will only add 2 days to the allowable time.I took the option of a cheap flight to the UK for 2 nights, obtaining an exit and entry passport stamp, and had no trouble on my final exit from Europe.
Very cool that Australians can make back-to-back, 90-day visits to Germany within a 180 day period, on the basis of the bilateral agreement between Germany and Australia. I didn't know that. But I don't think that this legal immigration status in Germany will permit you to cross borders into Schengen countries that don't have a similar bilateral agreement with Australia -- For example, if you spent 90 days in Germany, then made a quick roundtrip to London to "reset the clock," then returned to Germany, and then crossed into Poland or Switzerland, which don't have bilateral agreements with Australia, you would be overstaying in the Schengen area, wouldn't you?Sorry to disagree, but no - it does help. Depending on the bi-lateral trade agreement between countries there is often an extra number of days allowed. We (Australia) have a bi-lateral trade agreement with, among other countries, Germany. Thus I am allowed to stay in Germany for 90 days. At any time, prior to the 90 day deadline expiring if I leave the country for a non Schengen zone and return (it only needs to be a day in this case) then I am able to spend another 90 days in that same 180 day turnaround.
returned to Germany, and then crossed into Poland or Switzerland, which don't have bilateral agreements with Australia, you would be overstaying in the Schengen area, wouldn't you?
For example, if you were unaware that you were overstaying, and you attempted to board a flight in Warsaw or you walked all the way through Poland and attempted to enter Belarus or Ukraine, they would find out. Hence my post.Yes you would, but then how would they know as there weren't border checks prior to Covid_19?
This page might be a good starting point - but should not be considered legal advice. Very wise to carry written evidence from a reliable source to show border agents:Germany is not the only country that has bi-lateral trade agreements with Australia, but as I said previously, each one needs long and arduous research to find out what rules apply. The first task is to find the countries which do, then to find the agreement itself, and then to wade through and establish what can and cannot be done. The German bi-lateral trade agreement dates from 1952 and I must admit it was only by a chance discussion with someone at the embassy that I even found out about it - it would never have occurred to me to research such things back as far as 1952! This is not widely advertised, and I would never use this option without the letter of confirmation / explanation from the embassy.
From there the Sultan's Trail passes through eastern Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia end ends at Vienna. More information is at Sultan's Trail and Wikipedia.
I prefer staying up high in the mountains, rather than hiking through valleys or plains.
Sara, here's a website that might be helpful in your planning. The author devised a high mountain route across Europe: The Trans-European Alpine Route.
I don't think you can do this because of visa problems. Say you have used your 90 day Schengen visa getting to Denmark. You might have permission to spend an extra 90 days in Denmark but that does not give you permission to enter Norway.OPTION 1: SOUTH - NORTH
Sara, what a stroke of luck to have met Dylan and been able to talk to him about his walk. I was impressed with the careful explanations he gave of why he chose a particular route. You are certainly going to have a grand adventure out of this!I met Dylan in Oviedo
I don't think you can do this because of visa problems. Say you have used your 90 day Schengen visa getting to Denmark. You might have permission to spend an extra 90 days in Denmark but that does not give you permission to enter Norway.
It does seem that way but it gets confusing if you look at the Danish text (Google translation)It seems in the wording that Denmark and the other Nordic countries are lumped together.
The Nordic countries (Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland) belong to the Nordic Passport Union. That’s why the wording is like that. Nordic Passport UnionIt seems in the wording that Denmark and the other Nordic countries are lumped together.
I would submit my hiking plan to the Denmark Embassy before booking anything, just in case!
I personally don't worry about overstaying by a few days,
I don't understand the concept of avoiding overstaying by too much. For me, the risk of a temporary ban from visiting a country would oughweigh the benefit of overstaying by a few days. But you're doing your research and only you know how the cost-benefit analysis works out for you so I'll leave it there.I think it may be possible to avoid overstaying by too much in the Schengen zone on the way to the ocean.
I don't understand the concept of avoiding overstaying by too much. For me, the risk of a temporary ban from visiting a country would oughweigh the benefit of overstaying by a few days. But you're doing your research and only you know how the cost-benefit analysis works out for you so I'll leave it there.
do you know anyone who has actually completed it?
Wow! Christine has been everywhere!I would take a look at Christine's blog as she has walked all of Europe from N to S and W to E too. Think she recently finished the E3.
You may well have come across her blog before. She has done the Bibbulmun track three times I think!
Yea visas are a hassle. As a Brit I now sympathise with you over Schengen! If you ever wanted to be based in Europe longer term then I'd recommend Portugal. By having residency here you have free reign to be in the rest of Schengen, providing you don't work. I know quite a few Americans who have done this. Good luck.
https://christine-on-big-trip.blogspot.com/
I've completed the last 100 metres into Hagia Sofia in early August 1995
And at that time I drove a small part of the distance to Edirne before heading south west to Gelibolu (Gallipoli) and on to Ari Burnu, and Chunuk Bair before returning to Istanbul.
Sultan's Way came to my attention when reading BBC news over last weekend. The dedicated website looked reasonable, their kindle publication for walkers was inexpensive and it had been mapped with quite a bit of detail coming to attention prompted me consider it had the feel of a real pilgrimage. And that it had been walked. And so suggested it to @Sara_Dhooma for her consideration.
It would be challenging as to accommodation (I have a tent in my pack) and regularity of meals. And the many languages might be an issue. Not to mention navigation. And recharging a smart phone (tablet in my case) and camera.
But what an adventure to now travel through Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Slovakia as these were "out of bounds" when I drove from Athens to Vienna in July 1971.
@Bad Pilgrim, kia kaha (Take care, be strong, get going when you can)
Wow! That is a game-changer!So it is legally allowed for me to continue travelling northbound from the Danish border up through the Nordic countries.
The great gift to the world, from our countriesEnjoy the allemannsretten!
Regarding Canada and bilateral visa treaties, I found some stuff in the Treaty Law section of the Global Affairs Canada website. The documents are *in force* but really old (1940-1950s). Sadly, the Spain treaty is not available online - I was really curious to see what it said!
(here is an example for San Marino: https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=102555)
The Entry-Exit-System will make it super hard for individuals to fudge cumulative trips more than 90 days within the 180-day period. I personally don't worry about overstaying by a few days, but when that system is live -NOPE. The officials in Madrid and Barcelona barely glanced at my passport when I exited the last few years.
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OPTION 1: SOUTH - NORTH
Denmark seems to be the only country that is openly advertising the ability to extend the Schengen visa. Hiking from Denmark to Nordkapp, Norway would be difficult to complete in three months. If following the E1 route for example, I would need to average about 42km a day. Plus, the short weather window would be an issue in the far north. The Italy/Switzerland/Germany section of the E1 would have me averaging 38km a day. It *is* possible for a continuous footpath in a six-month period without overstaying - however, I would need to be very disciplined.
If walking segments (rather than continuous) I would rather start at Europe's southernmost point at Tarifa, and meander along the Camino routes up to Santiago, before exiting eastward out of Spain. A neat bonus would be connecting with Europe's westernmost point at Cabo da Roca in Portugal on the way up.
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OPTION 2: EAST - WEST
Elaine, thanks for the link! I met Dylan in Oviedo and he told me he was putting his GPS tracks and information into a website for others. I may just modify his segments to suit my needs. To start out with I'd probably take the Sultan's Trail from Istanbul to connect with Dylan's TEAR route later.
It has been so much fun learning about the different long-distance trails in Europe like the Via Egnatia (which also could be an option departing from Istanbul). The route variations are endless. Research continues, but I think it may be possible to avoid overstaying by too much in the Schengen zone on the way to the ocean. I would need to leave a minimum of 20 days to reach the Spanish border (if going from SJPDP to Finisterre along the Frances).
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The two options are both are equally intriguing for adventuring through different areas of Europe. Perhaps I'll be lucky enough to experience both one day. Until then at home..... my research notebook is filling up!
Hi Sara,
If you will take Sultan's Trail from Istanbul to connect with Dylan's TEAR route later take into account that some countries are not in schengen area, so you can stay/travel for instance through Croatia during 90 days and you will not spend any of 90 days of shengen visa.
Hi SaraThank you everyone for your suggestions! I have lots to research.
Terry - the reason why I want to do this hike in 2021 is before the ETIAS visa system further complicates travel in Europe. And before more countries join in the Schengen-visa program! I'll try my best not to overstay through my routing. If I need to jump around and spilt up the hike - that is also a possibility.
It would be much simpler with a EU passport.
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