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Thanks!! No, I don't want to buy another pack. I do plan to wear a long sleeve sun protection shirt, I am very sun sensitive with skin cancer history. I think I will try wearing a light merino tank under my shirt and see if that helps.I am one of those who can't quite do the fresh look when walking in the heat - I am a red faced, puffy, sweaty mess (but very happy!) and my back gets sweaty. It did with my Osprey Aura, with an air flow gap - though it felt amazing, my back was just as sweaty - and it does now with my Osprey Tempest, which sits closer to the back but has a ridged and mesh covered back panel. You have your pack already so re-investing in a different one is probably not what you want and it might not even help that much. You say your back sweats uncomfortably - could it be that your choice of top adds to the dicomfort? If you walk in synthetics, could you try wool or a silk mix or vice versa? I found getting sweaty in my clever sun protective shirt was a lot more uncomfortable than in my merino T-shirt. I take it you are not wearing cotton, which soaks up moisture and holds on to it. Going for a walk with a top in a different material might be worth a try and works out cheaper than getting a different pack.
(That said, you still have time to to so and get used to a new one if you decide to do so.)
You may want to experiment by taking an outdoor seat cushion with a hard plastic weave and attaching that to the back of the pack. That may give you the air flow you need and may be light enough and comfortable enough. It will be cheaper than a new pack and if it doesn't work at least you have a seat cushion.On warm, not hot days (68F-20C) my back sweats really uncomfortably from my backpack. Any suggestions on how to mitigate this?
On all three of mine (Gregory, Osprey, Z-Pack), they're all slightly different, and almost a hybrid system. The stays are either on the inside like a normal internal frame pack or in enclosed ribs of pack fabric, and the mesh attaches to either an extrusion or to the rib.@koilife, as a technical point, trampoline suspension packs (there are a variety of names given to this style of mesh frame) are external frame packs. They do not have the frame components on the inside of the pack - they are all outside.
I agree. Suggesting that there is one simple, 'correct' solution to a problem with as many dimensions as this doesn't appear particularly helpful to me. Clothing, pack type and load, and most of all, the rate of effort one is making all influence whether your body produces more sweat than can be evaporated in the prevailing ambient conditions. In the circumstances where @lmsundaze is less than a month away from leaving, one might infer that any major equipment and clothing decisions have already been made. While there might be some new, last minute, purchases that she is prepared to make, I expect good advice needs to be framed in the context that she is going with what she has already.There's no magic answer -I have a pack with a small gap between my back but also bring a change of shirt - the warmer it is, the quicker it will dry
We are clearly going to differ on this. I would have considered all of the trampoline frame models from these makers as external frames. Attaching the bag to the frame with a strip of fabric, or in other designs, in pouches at the corners held under tension by the frame, does not seem to me to alter the fundamentals that the frame is outside the body of the pack.On all three of mine (Gregory, Osprey, Z-Pack), they're all slightly different, and almost a hybrid system. The stays are either on the inside like a normal internal frame pack or in enclosed ribs of pack fabric, and the mesh attaches to either an extrusion or to the rib.
Hi! I have the same issue. I've found that items like cooling ties around my wrists (yes, wrists) seem to help cool me down overall. There's also the idea of an evaporative cooling towel attached to the back of the bra...this also helps cool me down. Then of course, there's always the option of considering an actual Cooling Vest or shirt. Just my 2 cents worth....my back sweats really uncomfortably from my backpack. Any suggestions...
I am using ULA Ohm 2.0. I mostly really like it except my back gets hot. It has a lot of good features and is very light.@lmsundaze - out of curiosity, what pack are you using?
I am impressed with 10 lbs! I have Osprey Sirrus 36L - carry ~ 16 lbs, air suspension that works. But you have already stated not an option to buy new. But perhaps a merino wool base layer for $25? My new fav piece of gear.Thanks Nidarosa -- I will try that -- appreciate the help. I am keeping my total weight under 10 pounds, so that will be a help.
I am impressed with 10 lbs! I have Osprey Sirrus 36L - carry ~ 16 lbs, air suspension that works. But you have already stated not an option to buy new. But perhaps a merino wool base layer for $25? My new fav piece of gear.
Does 10lbs include water?
Buen Camino,
Janice
Wow, just wow. You go, girl!Yes, Janice, 10 pounds includes water and trekking poles and everything. It does not include what I am wearing. I'm not taking any extras.
I too am impressed! WOWWow, just wow. You go, girl!
What I meant by "external frame" was something like this, where there is a full and stable exterior frame onto which is attached the bag itself. I grew up with these, and they do a reasonably good job with back ventilation. However, compared to an internal frame pack, they are prone to shifting, aren't nearly as comfortable, and they tend to be heavy unless they are (as in the case of this image) minimizing fabric by assuming one attaches to the outside frame with straps.We are clearly going to differ on this. I would have considered all of the trampoline frame models from these makers as external frames. Attaching the bag to the frame with a strip of fabric, or in other designs, in pouches at the corners held under tension by the frame, does not seem to me to alter the fundamentals that the frame is outside the body of the pack.
Interesting idea! (I know what they areMet a guy recently who was utilising female panty liners.
In case you are unaware, they are sticky one side, absorbent on the other.
He'd got his wife to buy him the thickest ones available.
Trial and error found the exact spot to position them.
One positioned around where the hip belt locks the pack on the hips. The other higher, where the top of the pack hits the back when cinched in by the load lifters.
Regards
Gerard
Me too -- with this pack the sweat is uncomfortable but with my old Gregory I was having back pain. I just returned from today's walk, took Nidarosa's advice, wore merino wool shirt and made the straps real lose. My pack is light enough I can carry it that way. I didn't feel that bad, but of course soaking wet. Next time will try Gold Bond as Rebekah suggested. Thanks so much to everyone on this forum!Because of back pain I cannot use backpacks that are far off the back, the extra traction on my back is a killer. Be sure to try a bag before buying it.
One thing I do that helps a lot is periodically let the pack straps slide back down my arms to create a large gap between the pack and my back, kind of "hinging" the pack back on the waist belt, thus letting the wind and sun dry off my sweaty back. I can do this without stopping and let the packstraps kind of hang on my elbows as I walk. Works and feels great, if it may look bit strange. I learned this backcountry skiing, where it is imperative to stay dry.My Camino is getting closer -- 34 days -- and I am training more and more with my full pack. On warm, not hot days (68F-20C) my back sweats really uncomfortably from my backpack. Any suggestions on how to mitigate this? Thanks!
Thanks!! No, I don't want to buy another pack. I do plan to wear a long sleeve sun protection shirt, I am very sun sensitive with skin cancer history. I think I will try wearing a light merino tank under my shirt and see if that helps.
Having spent some months in deserts as a soldier (Marine) I have never heard of wearing heavy coats in that extreme heat and sun. Sure, the sweat won't evaporate, but you will sweat more under the heavy coat. That would actually be an invitation to death. There is just no way we would have entertained that concept. If they did that in the 1940's it was based on a misconception.I have to go with Doug on the exterior frame pack.
The only other option is to camino when the weather is colder.
Putting merino under a shirt will not aid.
Soldiers in the desert in WWII used to wear heavy coats to limit evaporation due to sweating ... this helped prevent dehydration.
Wouldn't this by your definition then mean that every pack is an external frame pack? The earlier internal frame packs had the larger aluminum bent frames inside the pack itself but just a pad and the thin material of the bag separating the back and pack. Now they have progressed and use lightweight wires, rods, leafs, stays, etc but fundamentally, they are still 'inside' the pack with only padding and a thin piece of material between the back and pack. My earliest external packs had the entire frame and harness outside and simply hung/attached the bag to that frame with nothing inside the pack. We dual-purposed those pack by removing the bag altogether and carried heavy items in the bush by tying them directly to the external frame.We are clearly going to differ on this. I would have considered all of the trampoline frame models from these makers as external frames. Attaching the bag to the frame with a strip of fabric, or in other designs, in pouches at the corners held under tension by the frame, does not seem to me to alter the fundamentals that the frame is outside the body of the pack.
Having spent some months in deserts as a soldier (Marine) I have never heard of wearing heavy coats in that extreme heat and sun. Sure, the sweat won't evaporate, but you will sweat more under the heavy coat. That would actually be an invitation to death. There is just no way we would have entertained that concept. If they did that in the 1940's it was based on a misconception.
The purpose of sweat is that the air passing over it on the skin causes a cooling of sorts.
Yes, desert cultures do wear thin, loose fitting clothing, but the clothes have no insulating properties at all (we all bought some to bring home as souvenirs). Designed to cover one from the sun's rays yet loose and breezy.The cooling occurs due to evaporation of moisture. More sweating would have to result, speeding the process of dehydration.
The coat trapped the moisture slowing the rate of evaporation. I would guess a large loose coat would aid in cooling convection under the coat. Think long loose clothing favored by Bedouin.
All tech fabrics are going to "sour" over time, even with good washing machines and really hot water (both a luxury on the Camino). The only way that I've found to eliminate the sour, "funky" smell is an extended soak in an enzymatic cleaner from time to time, which can break down the proteins and bacteria that accumulate to produce the sour smell. In the US, we have Resolve / Spray and Wash, which does a really good job.Can you do anything about sour sun-protection shirt?
Did you happen to purchase your pack from REI? If so no problem returning it for a different model and manufacturer (and the end roof season clearance is going on now too I think)...Also, thanks Doug Fitz for recognizing that buying new stuff really isn't an option at this point.
@koilife, as a technical point, trampoline suspension packs (there are a variety of names given to this style of mesh frame) are external frame packs. They do not have the frame components on the inside of the pack - they are all outside.
Reminds me of what I was brought up with. "Horses sweat, men perspire and ladies glow"You just gonna sweat (or as southern ladies say, "glow"). Nothing you can do about it. Comes with physical exertion, and walking 15-30 km a day, up and down hills wearing a backpack is definitely physical exertion.
Wear lightweight, tech type clothing designed to dry quickly and when you take a break, make sure to remove your pack.
Thanks Great Dane, no REI where I live. I am going to "glow" with itDid you happen to purchase your pack from REI? If so no problem returning it for a different model and manufacturer (and the end roof season clearance is going on now too I think)
I know Osprey use the term 'peripheral frame', and Deuter describe those packs that do have an internal frame as such, but I have never seen a trampoline suspension system referred to as an internal frame. I would be interested if you could refer me where you think they have. The distinction is one of design, not semantics!Packs, such as those by Osprey, with ventilated back panels are internal frame packs... at least as defined by those who make the packs and those with a historical knowledge of the evolution of backpack designs
Hi Doug - are there a set of internationally recognized standards that state trampoline systems are external frames?I know Osprey use the term 'peripheral frame', and Deuter describe those packs that do have an internal frame as such, but I have never seen a trampoline suspension system referred to as an internal frame. I would be interested if you could refer me where you think they have. The distinction is one of design, not semantics!
Why? It really is about the common English language meanings of the words. I have four packs in various sizes with trampoline suspension systems, from Salewa, Deuter and North Face. I can tell you that all the frames are external to the bag itself - I can see the frames from outside the pack. I have both internally framed packs and an older external ladder frame pack as well. I consider it an internal frame if I have to open up the bag to get access to the frame. It isn't any more complicated than that - it is clearly inside the bag, ie internal, if I have to get at the frame from the inside of the bag.Hi Doug - are there a set of internationally recognized standards that state trampoline systems are external frames?
I know Osprey use the term 'peripheral frame', and Deuter describe those packs that do have an internal frame as such, but I have never seen a trampoline suspension system referred to as an internal frame. I would be interested if you could refer me where you think they have. The distinction is one of design, not semantics!
When I say semantics, I mean that, when considering which pack works best for you, the name of the design isn't really relevant. It's kind of a geek distinction, I guess. "External frame" connotes the old Kelty or Trailwise packs, as a previous poster pictured. I wrote to my friend Mike, who is the founder/owner of Osprey packs to ask him. (He and I backpacked together when we were teenagers).
My 'why' is because I have a different point of view about this topic but am interested in learning more. In the past I have noticed when some Posters have a different point of view as another Poster they ask them if they have any official documentation that validates their stance and I think this is a smart approach as there certainly may be such documentation that exists. In this case I have looked at a variety of classification societies and patents but can find nothing conclusive either way so was simply curious to know if there was any such that you knew of that the would imply the designers and manufactures of these various packs were using improper terminology.Why? It really is about the common English language meanings of the words. I have four packs in various sizes with trampoline suspension systems, from Salewa, Deuter and North Face. I can tell you that all the frames are external to the bag itself - I can see the frames from outside the pack. I have both internally framed packs and an older external ladder frame pack as well. I consider it an internal frame if I have to open up the bag to get access to the frame. It isn't any more complicated than that - it is clearly inside the bag, ie internal, if I have to get at the frame from the inside of the bag.
Osprey describe its approach as a peripheral frame in the promotional literature I have read. That might be to avoid any negative associations there might still be with externally framed packs being old-fashioned and not suitable for certain types of outdoor activities.
@JillGat, thank you for making this effort. I will be interested in the response.
I'm sorry that plain English doesn't work, but you might want to read the Wikipedia article at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpack#External_frame_packs. It's probably vague enough to satisfy both camps in this discussion. In the meantime I will continue to use the simple test that if I don't have to open the bag to see the frame, it's an external frame.My 'why' is because I have a different point of view about this topic but am interested in learning more. In the past I have noticed when some Posters have a different point of view as another Poster they ask them if they have any official documentation that validates their stance and I think this is a smart approach as there certainly may be such documentation that exists. In this case I have looked at a variety of classification societies and patents but can find nothing conclusive either way so was simply curious to know if there was any such that you knew of that the would imply the designers and manufactures of these various packs were using improper terminology.
My language skills are just fine. I just have a different set of definitions. Anyway, moving on...I'm sorry that plain English doesn't work, but you might want to read the Wikipedia article at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpack#External_frame_packs. It's probably vague enough to satisfy both camps in this discussion. In the meantime I will continue to use the simple test that if I don't have to open the bag to see the frame, it's an external frame.
I'm sorry that plain English doesn't work, but you might want to read the Wikipedia article at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpack#External_frame_packs. It's probably vague enough to satisfy both camps in this discussion. In the meantime I will continue to use the simple test that if I don't have to open the bag to see the frame, it's an external frame.
You are right, but the mesh panel is attached to the frame and often forms an integral unit with it.The trampoline suspension system is not the frame.
I did a check of the local outdoor retailers today. There seem to be four design variants:From Mike, who has designed all the Osprey packs: "The frames internal so I think they're internal frames, but whatever. I'd like to do an external frame for all those people who are afraid of "internal frames"."
Good idea @imsundaze I only wear merino next to my skin. I’ve done both hot and cool caminos and it’s great. A 150gm base layer (¾ sleeve) is fine in summer. You can get a size bigger than normal too for a bit more freedom against your body.Thanks!! No, I don't want to buy another pack. I do plan to wear a long sleeve sun protection shirt, I am very sun sensitive with skin cancer history. I think I will try wearing a light merino tank under my shirt and see if that helps.
Thanks! Yes I had much less problem on the Camino than training, but I think because the weather was very cool in April and May when I walked. If I go again, it will be in the spring the next time too.I'm late to this party. Glad you had a great Camino! Can't wait to do mine. I too love merino. Did you find you sweated less on your Camino than at home training? Just curious. I have an Osprey pack with a suspended mesh back panel, so that should help. Cheers!
I use an Osprey Tempest 30 It has a mesh air pocket between your back and the pack to allow air to circulate. It works quite well. My daughter uses a Decathlon Forclaz 30 air which is similar (and about half the price!!!) However if you've already purchased a pack and cannot change it, I don't have any words of wisdom. Hope someone else can help.My Camino is getting closer -- 34 days -- and I am training more and more with my full pack. On warm, not hot days (68F-20C) my back sweats really uncomfortably from my backpack. Any suggestions on how to mitigate this? Thanks!
I’d suggest light weight merino wool shirt and change it half way through your day and hang it off your pack to dry…which it will very quickly. Even the “air flow vent” backpacks will make your back sweat, although maybe not so much.My Camino is getting closer -- 34 days -- and I am training more and more with my full pack. On warm, not hot days (68F-20C) my back sweats really uncomfortably from my backpack. Any suggestions on how to mitigate this? Thanks!
Nice thought. Note you are replying to a thread that is several years old. The OP has walked the CF and CP since then, but some newer members may get benefit from this thread being re-activated.I’d suggest light weight merino wool shirt and change it half way through your day and hang it off your pack to dry…which it will very quickly. Even the “air flow vent” backpacks will make your back sweat, although maybe not so much.
Thanks…I realized that after I posted…Nice thought. Note you are replying to a thread that is several years old. The OP has walked the CF and CP since then, but some newer members may get benefit from this thread being re-activated.
Yep, it’s hot, you sweat , generally dries fairly quickDon't sweat the sweat.
Besides, it's your body's way of keeping you cool.
wear a lycra base layer top, it wikes the sweat away, it feels cold on putting it on but soon warms up. I wear a lycra top as well - check out cycling kit -Thanks!! No, I don't want to buy another pack. I do plan to wear a long sleeve sun protection shirt, I am very sun sensitive with skin cancer history. I think I will try wearing a light merino tank under my shirt and see if that helps.
You are responding to a post from 2016 by a member who hasn't been on the forum since Jun this year. That said, the advice you are offering is more general in nature, and might be useful to someone now this quite old thread has been re-activated.wear a lycra base layer top, it wikes the sweat away, it feels cold on putting it on but soon warms up. I wear a lycra top as well - check out cycling kit -
if your pack is not spaced off your back, put your clothes inside your pack in a plastic bag or you may find sweat wets the stuff in your pack. - it is also a good idea as rain may get in as well.
I had not thought of sweat wetting the backpack....With the material used today, is that a real problem?wear a lycra base layer top, it wikes the sweat away, it feels cold on putting it on but soon warms up. I wear a lycra top as well - check out cycling kit -
if your pack is not spaced off your back, put your clothes inside your pack in a plastic bag or you may find sweat wets the stuff in your pack. - it is also a good idea as rain may get in as well.
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