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I walked my first two caminos using a Spanish language guidebook. I have not used a printed guidebook since. And I would not be carrying Brierley's guide no matter what language it was translated into.I don't recommend limiting yourself by looking for clues like that - Someone who is carrying a French or German guidebook is quite likely to speak some English.
And I would not be carrying Brierley's guide no matter what language it was translated into.
Not all North Americans are citizens of the US - the OP is from CanadaWhat a wonderful opportunity to widen your horizon.
Why would you worry about being right away identified as US American? You may want to consider that not everybody likes Americans.
Survival word would be: Thank you good day good evening good by. When where how much. And I am so sorry I only speak a little bit castilliano. Madame would be nice and counting to ten. If you totaly lingual challenged remember you learnt English once. Write it on a card and practice. I taught for a very long time a two week warm up course to young guys - next to dos and don'ts. After two weeks they could count introduce themselves, ask for directions. What was left after ther exams was. I am Bob from the USA. One beer please and where is the train station.
By the way not all Spanish speakers in the US are imigrants and French is spoken as well...
Have fun.
Come on, you're from Thunder Bay and you don't speak Ukrainian or Finnish? Shame on you!I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
Do you need to let everyone know? Doesn't it become clear enough when you speak English to them? I am puzzled by the question, since you have walked in 2013, 2015 and 2017, and presumably managed fine.My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I used to feel this way - as if I were lazy by speaking my mother tongue. However, now I think that there needs to be an international language and that English is a good one to take that role. It is a very flexible language, it grew from the common people, has no academic academy in control, is very forgiving of mistakes, and it will continue to adapt.Sometimes I feel embarrassed that my mother tongue is English! We are monopolizing all over the World. Very unfair, I think
Sorry my badNot all North Americans are citizens of the US - the OP is from Canada
(Mexico in in North America too)
But then folks could assume that he is Québécois!You could wear a sign:
''Monolingual North American''.
‘Mime’ is my favourite language when I’m really stuck
I agree that it would be nice if there was a universal language and in the given circumstances English would be the obvious choice, if one must chose an existing language. Still I find that I am feeling a little irritation when English speaking people come up with this argument. It has to do with power I feel and can lead to a lack of openness. You can see this for instance in the behaviour of many French people who still feel that French is still the universal language, and refuse to talk any other language. Another example which I still remember after 30 years is an American handbook of history, that only mentioned books in hat were translated in English. That would be unthinkable in EuropeI used to feel this way - as if I were lazy by speaking my mother tongue. However, now I think that there needs to be an international language and that English is a good one to take that role. It is a very flexible language, it grew from the common people, has no academic academy in control, is very forgiving of mistakes, and it will continue to adapt.
I too am from North America and look not one iota of Latin lineage. They’ll know at one glance that I’m not Spanish. I still attempt to greet and make basic statements in Spanish. With an app like Duolingo it’s not hard to at least learn some basics, such as asking where the toilet is or ordering a coffee. I encourage you to make the effort. It’s easier than you might think. There is absolutely zero risk that in making one statement in Spanish the listener is going to mistakenly assume you’re fluent.
[/QUOTE
Do you think it's the bearpaw snowshoes that give it away?
Good idea, after all Galician is spoken everywhere in Spain except the 16 Autonomous Regions where they speak Castilian, Catalan/Valencian or Basque.I'm planning to go with Galician phrases instead of Spanish. If I'm going to learn some it might as well be the ones relevant to where I am.
Never going to happen. The first thing a person from Quebec is likely to say is that they're from Quebec!But then folks could assume that he is Québécois!
MAKATON can be good and Justin Fletcher is adorable!It is really fun! Though even mime can be misunderstood at times. Just smile, do your best, and have a good time!
"back packer 'ovel"Sorry my bad
But to my apology have never heard monolingual worries from people from Mexico.
Since we are stereo typing Europeans. Let me quote out of French Kiss Do you speak English Of course Madame this is the Georg V not some back packer auberge... Thank you for the fascinating lecture on our cultual differences...
Don't forget nobody outside of Île-de-France speaks proper FrenchI also walked three caminos previously, in 2015, 2016, and 2017. I did manage fine, except for occasionally sharing a bunk with a man on a couple of occasions who went to bed after I did and I never seemed to have a chance to introduce myself. I am somewhat shy and find that I am not always confident to try to introduce myself to persons with whom I share a space but possibly not a language. For example, I have sat down at tables in, or outside, a bar and not spoken to another person at the table, if he or she did not take the first step. And I am not monolingual. I speak fair French, some German, and am working on learning Spanish. I have spoken German with a monolingual elderly German gentleman and French with a very rude monolingual Frenchman, who amused himself criticizing my French. Each meeting is unique and the best thing to get me to talk to anyone is simply to either introduce yourself or express a need. But I know that I have to work harder at meeting whomever is open to an encounter. I don't have any answers, only not to give up and to reach out whenever an appropriate situation presents itself. This is my major project for my next camino.
If you come from a place where Bs are not clearly distinguished from Vs, and Ls are not clearly distinguished from Rs ... you might easily conclude that 'ovel and auberge share a common root. On some stretches of some Caminos , it sure feels that way.'ovel
Good idea, after all Galician is spoken everywhere in Spain except the 16 Autonomous Regions where they speak Castilian, Catalan/Valencian or Basque.
You missed the point. The guy in the movie is French. The French do not aspirate the letter h (it's pronounced ermay not Hermes), he actually says "back packer hovel".If you come from a place where Bs are not clearly distinguished from Vs, and Ls are not clearly distinguished from Rs ... you might easily conclude that 'ovel and auberge share a common root. On some stretches of some Caminos , it sure feels that way.
I'm just over excited about getting my laptop back after relying on a tablet over the long weekend!While that's true, I'll be in Galicia exclusively (also, I feel like the humorous tone I intended didn't quite make it through)
No. I got that. I just made a joke that didn't amuse you.You missed the point. The guy in the movie is French. The French do not aspirate the letter h (it's pronounced ermay not Hermes), he actually says "back packer hovel".
Aren't you taking the OP's question way too seriously? For starters, even if he learns to say a few words in Spanish which he probably knows anyway by now he will still be a monolingual North American because knowing a few words in a foreign language doesn't make you a competent speaker let along a bilingual one no matter how that is defined.
Secondly, the OP looks for clues for identifying other pilgrims' language competencies without hearing them speaking first. That's the task at hand. We are not talking locals here. If last year is any indication and as we are approaching the month of May, more than 70% of the pilgrims are not Spanish. Among those, the country with the highest number of pilgrims will be Germany, followed by Italy and then already the United States. Unfortunately, the statistics of the Santiago pilgrims office focusses on nationality and not on mother tongue.
Learning Galician is laudable of course. I don't know enough about language politics in Galicia, neither on the political nor on the individual level. In my personal experience from other areas with a setup of two official languages, local people on a personal level are quite forgiving towards the foreign tourist when he or she uses one of the two official languages of a region and not the one that may be perceived as "the other one". It seems that the percentage of people who say that they speak mainly or only Galician is roughly the same as the percentage of people who say that they speak mainly or only Spanish (Castellano)? How would one identify them?
But then folks could assume that he is Québécois!
Well, galician is not so uncommon in other places. Bierzo does use it officially, northern portugal speaks it, but writes differently and some south american communities still maintain it.While that's true, I'll be in Galicia exclusively (also, I feel like the humorous tone I intended didn't quite make it through)
Are they? Never stayed in Canada, sorry. Preconception is a little bit different (more like the the european french).And Québécois are bilingual, whether their mother tongue is French or English.
Well it certainly bemused me - so almost there!No. I got that. I just made a joke that didn't amuse you.
They've given up on Joual then?Even if it's written in English?
And Québécois are bilingual, whether their mother tongue is French or English.
To paraphrase Eddie Izzard (on his first visit to Montreal) "Why do people keep talking to me in French? Do I look French?"Even if it's written in English?
And Québécois are bilingual, whether their mother tongue is French or English.
Even if it's written in English?
And Québécois are bilingual, whether their mother tongue is French or English.
I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
Quo Vadis, non wifi!I would agree that Montrealers are generally bilingual, but I have spent too long in Rimouski and Chicoutimi among francophone monoglots to say that of Québécois in general. As one drilled through years of Latin, I always regret that it has lost its status as the international language. Habeasne wifi?
Trilingual then. Not counting Malamut.They've given up on Joual then?
I as a Galician am very happy about your intention of learning some phrases of my language. Many locals will also be pleased of hearing you.While that's true, I'll be in Galicia exclusively (also, I feel like the humorous tone I intended didn't quite make it through)
After you take out the Aussies, Kiwis. British, Irish, Canadians, Americans and a few others from the Commonwealth, you are left with the French, Germans, Slavs, Chinese, Koreans, Portuguese, etcetera, whose pilgrim numbers far outweigh ours and whose first languages are not English. Oh yeah, I believe the Spanish have a different primary language, and live on an isolating peninsula with a barrier, (called the Pyrenees,) which keep the riffraff out. I'll bet most of THEM, as well as some of US, make an effort to communicate in more than one way, at least WE try.I am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
No. Disputatio ad invicem.Habeasne wifi?
Although I have so far walked three caminos, all ending in Santiago, including the VdlP, I have only had one close encounter with Galego (is this the proper name of your language?). This was in Santiago, on a Sunday, when I left the Cathedral mass, where the Botafumeiro was encouraging the usual misbehaviour of the tourists, and went to a local church for a Sunday service. It was a church dedicated to San Benito. Suddenly, I was attending a service where the members of the congregation were worshiping together as a community. There were books with a printed service and hymns, which made it easier for me to figure out what was going on. And, if I remember properly, I found the language of the service much easier to follow than the Spanish of the Cathedral. I thought then that Galego is closer to Latin than Spanish, as I could dredge up my early Latin lessons to understand much of what was going on. After the service, almost everyone in the congregation went en masse to a local restaurant for lunch, very good food. I don't remember the name of the restaurant, but I could locate it again and I certainly will the next time that I am in Santiago. What was going through my mind throughout that experience was, "So this is where the church is here."I as a Galician am very happy about your intention of learning some phrases of my language. Many locals will also be pleased of hearing you.
Galician is also spoken in western Asturias (from Navia), western Bierzo (from Villafranca) and Zamora (from puerto de Padornelo).
Even in Extremadura there is a region (Val de Xalima) where the local language is Galaico/Portugues.
Brilliant.No. Disputatio ad invicem.
(In mime if that's necessary....)
And in Greece nodding up-down when saying NO, and left-right when saying YES at the same timeTo be helpful
travelling in notern Cyprus. No English left hand traffic. My Turkish counting fast forgotten I managed with evet for yes. The only thing in classy Turkish I could say thank you, effendim for Mister, madame. Toilet, and merhaba because everybody said it to me. Pointing rubbing my fingers for how much, they showed me the number. And the klicking sound with tongue while you raise your eye brows for no. Works in Andalucia too. Ah getting a check writing in the air.
Let's collect minimalistic useful words?
Vale OK
Yes, I understand this and it is why I used to feel guilty. That attitude remains with some people and I reject it as old fashioned and unpleasant. I am not trying to excuse historical wrongs. I also support the learning of other languages and have worked hard over the years to become competent in Spanish.Still I find that I am feeling a little irritation when English speaking people come up with this argument. It has to do with power I feel and can lead to a lack of openness.
Hi Jeff now I am sure we are cousins. I thought only Germans like to correct. Thank you."back packer 'ovel"
There is no reason why you should feel guilty about loving your language. It is the way that people act when you meet other language speaking people that makes the difference. If you expect other people to adapt to the language you speak that is not so nice.. That is even the case when for instance Dutch people on the camino sometimes talk negative about the fact that hospitales, shopkeepers a.s.o. speak only a little English. At the same time they did not make any effort to learn some basic Spanish, although they walked caminos more than once. I am myself also influenced by this situation. Last year I walked for a week with a woman from the UK and a woman from Germany, they both did not speak each others language. This left me in a little bit awkward position. Typical was that I felt a little bit irritated about the fact that the German could not/did not try to speak English. I felt nothing of the kind towards the English womanYes, I understand this and it is why I used to feel guilty. That attitude remains with some people and I reject it as old fashioned and unpleasant. I am not trying to excuse historical wrongs. I also support the learning of other languages and have worked hard over the years to become competent in Spanish.
However, sometimes a good result can come even when the original motivation was not admirable. The world has changed, and English has emerged as the international language - perhaps originally due to wielding of colonial powers, but it has taken root and spread (unlike, say, French or Latin) perhaps in part because of its intrinsic characteristics of flexibility and ability to adapt. As languages go, it is democratic and inclusive - qualities we value today.
The change in my attitude solidified one day when I observed a group of diverse backpackers at a table in a fast food restaurant in Prague, all speaking with each other in English, even though not one of them was a native English speaker. No one was imposing narrow-minded attitudes. They were simply getting on with modern life.
From that point I decided to take joy in my language, English, instead of guilt.
So the English Lady spoke German or tried to speak German oh wait she did not.And the German not English. So far no other language skill with the Ladies. Did both speak Dutch? No so why were you irritated. Don't get it. Ah you spoke German and left the English Lady out or maybe not. My solution speak all Mandarin. No one feels bad that way.There is no reason why you should feel guilty about loving your language. It is the way that people act when you meet other language speaking people that makes the difference. If you expect other people to adapt to the language you speak that is not so nice.. That is even the case when for instance Dutch people on the camino sometimes talk negative about the fact that hospitales, shopkeepers a.s.o. speak only a little English. At the same time they did not make any effort to learn some basic Spanish, although they walked caminos more than once. I am myself also influenced by this situation. Last year I walked for a week with a woman from the UK and a woman from Germany, they both did not speak each others language. This left me in a little bit awkward position. Typical was that I felt a little bit irritated about the fact that the German could not/did not try to speak English. I felt nothing of the kind towards the English woman
The only word which I know in Mandarin is the word for hello, which is unfortunate, as I suspect that Mandarin would be a good competitor to English for an international language.So the English Lady spoke German or tried to speak German oh wait she did not.And the German not English. So far no other language skill with the Ladies. Did both speak Dutch? No so why were you irritated. Don't get it. Ah you spoke German and left the English Lady out or maybe not. My solution speak all Mandarin. No one feels bad that way.
Perhaps the Dutch haven't forgiven the Spanish for their occupation of the Low Countries yet?There is no reason why you should feel guilty about loving your language. It is the way that people act when you meet other language speaking people that makes the difference. If you expect other people to adapt to the language you speak that is not so nice.. That is even the case when for instance Dutch people on the camino sometimes talk negative about the fact that hospitales, shopkeepers a.s.o. speak only a little English. At the same time they did not make any effort to learn some basic Spanish, although they walked caminos more than once. I am myself also influenced by this situation. Last year I walked for a week with a woman from the UK and a woman from Germany, they both did not speak each others language. This left me in a little bit awkward position. Typical was that I felt a little bit irritated about the fact that the German could not/did not try to speak English. I felt nothing of the kind towards the English woman
The only word which I know in Mandarin is the word for hello, which is unfortunate, as I suspect that Mandarin would be a good competitor to English for an international language.
I guess if we look at a language that most people speak as their native langiuage it maybe a Chinese language or maybe Spanish after all?
Yes, we must be related - aged 4 my (blonde, blue eyed daughter) learned that a judicious <merci> or <s'il vous plaît> in certain shops would end up in the little baskets of sweets being profered. It was a moment of great pride when a waiter in a French restaurant said "You are English, no?" "Yes we are." "But your children eat proper food and say 'thank you'!" (ie not hamburgers or ham and chips). SO proud!Here my 2 cents about adult foreign language speakers.
Some are realy worried to say the wrong thing and look stupid.
I used to ask who is more stupid the one who walks into a bakery and with much pointing and incorrect words gets the sweet. Or the one who goes into the same bakery makes no mistakes and leaves empty handed?
Fighting talk, Bradypus! Woudl you like to tell us why?I walked my first two caminos using a Spanish language guidebook. I have not used a printed guidebook since. And I would not be carrying Brierley's guide no matter what language it was translated into.
Probably notFighting talk, Bradypus! Woudl you like to tell us why?
Never read them but they sound like they've been ripped from the Imperial Indian Army Lists:Probably notIt often seems that expressing any criticism of the Brierley guides is the last great taboo in Camino circles. It always generates more heat than light. For a lot of reasons - some of which are fairly specific to my own background - I dislike Brierley's guides. If you would like to test the character limit of the forum's private conversations or chat on Facebook I will be happy to explain my opinions at ridiculous length privately....
Google translator works in Spanish and Basque.. HelloI am a Retired Monolingual North American.
When I'm walking the Camino.... I often wonder.... Do they speak English?
I am look for help in how to find (or elicit) clues.
Two things I already do....
I don't say “Buen Camino” I say “Hello, Buen Camino”
My hope is to let people know I am an English speaking Pilgrim.
I look for others with the John Brierley Guide Book.
I assume it is only in English and therefore they must speak English.
Any more ideas ?
How can you dislike a guide book? It's a map from A to B. I used to use Lonely Planet, Shoestring???Probably notIt often seems that expressing any criticism of the Brierley guides is the last great taboo in Camino circles. It always generates more heat than light. For a lot of reasons - some of which are fairly specific to my own background - I dislike Brierley's guides. If you would like to test the character limit of the forum's private conversations or chat on Facebook I will be happy to explain my opinions at ridiculous length privately....
When I lived in Fife in the 1990s one of the older members of the local church was a retired half-colonel who had served in the (British) Indian Army as a young officer in Skinner's Horse. A very friendly man but I could never bring myself to tell him that the phrase "in Skinner's Horse" always conjured up a mental image of a pantomime horse...Never read them but they sound like they've been ripped from the Imperial Indian Army Lists:
Bombay Light Horse
Calcutta Scottish
The Gilgit Scouts
The Brierley Guides . . . . .
Galego is in Galician and Gallego is in Spanish. So both are correct.Although I have so far walked three caminos, all ending in Santiago, including the VdlP, I have only had one close encounter with Galego (is this the proper name of your language?). This was in Santiago, on a Sunday, when I left the Cathedral mass, where the Botafumeiro was encouraging the usual misbehaviour of the tourists, and went to a local church for a Sunday service. I think it was a church dedicated to St Dominic, but my memory may fail me. Suddenly, I was attending a service where the members of the congregation were worshiping together as a community. There were books with a printed service and hymns, which made it easier for me to figure out what was going on. And, if I remember properly, I found the language of the service much easier to follow than the Spanish of the Cathedral. I thought then that Galego is closer to Latin than Spanish, as I could dredge up my early Latin lessons to understand much of what was going on. After the service, almost everyone in the congregation went en masse to a local restaurant for lunch, very good food. I don't remember the names of the church or restaurant, but I could locate them again and I certainly will the next time that I am in Santiago. What was going through my mind throughout that experience was, "So this is where the church is here."
I used to feel this way - as if I were lazy by speaking my mother tongue. However, now I think that there needs to be an international language and that English is a good one to take that role. It is a very flexible language, it grew from the common people, has no academic academy in control, is very forgiving of mistakes, and it will continue to adapt.
Some 5.000 words in English originate from us Vikings. Really.Plus the fact that a lot of English words are actually already words in another language. Would make it easier
It's true, like . . . . KioskSome 5.000 words in English originate from us Vikings. Really.
Some 5.000 words in English originate from us Vikings. Really.
It was not a big point, to say that I was irritated is put to strongly. My point was that I felt some irritation towards the German woman and not towards the English woman who did not try to talk German either. That proves that I myself, not consciously, consider English to be the universal language. My awkward position was that I was in the middle. When the German woman talked to me I had to decide whether to answer in German or in English and exclude one of them.So the English Lady spoke German or tried to speak German oh wait she did not.And the German not English. So far no other language skill with the Ladies. Did both speak Dutch? No so why were you irritated. Don't get it. Ah you spoke German and left the English Lady out or maybe not. My solution speak all Mandarin. No one feels bad that way.
Indeed. The English "language" is an international mix. Do not forget all the words stolen from Spanish...Just shared that with my daughter who responded with:
"So that leaves 745,000 words we stole from Latin, Greek, French, German and Hindi . . " (SO much her father's daughter)
I couldn't agree more.There is no reason why you should feel guilty about loving your language. It is the way that people act when you meet other language speaking people that makes the difference. If you expect other people to adapt to the language you speak that is not so nice.. That is even the case when for instance Dutch people on the camino sometimes talk negative about the fact that hospitales, shopkeepers a.s.o. speak only a little English. At the same time they did not make any effort to learn some basic Spanish, although they walked caminos more than once. I am myself also influenced by this situation. Last year I walked for a week with a woman from the UK and a woman from Germany, they both did not speak each others language. This left me in a little bit awkward position. Typical was that I felt a little bit irritated about the fact that the German could not/did not try to speak English. I felt nothing of the kind towards the English woman
3) If you're looking for native english speakers to talk to, you'll probably hear them coming.
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