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I got to thinking that the owners of these places probably do quite nicely thank you very much!
You try it.I got to thinking that the owners of these places probably do quite nicely thank you very much!
Yeah, uh-huh. But everybody doesn't.If everyone did that that’s €160.
I’m not suggesting the owner was a millionaireI have no idea of donative on the Norte nor the Frances but about the only donative in Portugal I know that 20€ per person is usance.
It is not only the food and drinks.
The (privat) owners have to cope with e.g.cleaning , energie and water costs, washing the sheets every day, and debugging the albergue. Every 2 months or so there comes a specialist to research the premisses for bedbugs and he certificates . I saw it once while being hopitaleiro .That was not cheap.
Then they have to reserve money for renewing things now and then like matrasses , sheets , blankets and at longer term renovations of bathrooms and sanitairy stuff.
The saddest thing I saw was that they had a kind of cardboard whisky container , the folks put the donative money into.
Some instead of putting it in , took the money outSo my wife and I decided to buy them a strong metal postbox with a lock , fixed at the wall so forever it was secured the money kept in. Untill today it is still working .
I do not think the owners will become millionaires and it is very hard working .
I am happy thanks! It was lovely and as long as the owner makes a decent living out of it I’m happy for him too.Financially, not really. For those who own/run an albergue on a donation basis, it's a labour of love and a struggle to pay the bills. But they do it with their hearts. Some give generously, some give less generously and some so called 'real pilgrims' expect others to give them a bed, food and wash their clothes for nothing, but still manage to complain.
Making assumptions about the albergue owner's tax affairs is a bit disingenuous. You got a bed, a shower, your dinner and breakfast for your €20, perhaps you got your clothes washed and free WiFi too.
Be happy.
Gracias!BUen camio, Chris!
You try it.
You'll see the other side.
Yeah, uh-huh. But everybody doesn't.
Sometimes people can't afford anything. And sadly there is no shortage of well-off cheapskates and freeloaders too.
It's a labor of love.
as a comment to all this interesting posts in this topic I can tell you that most albergues in Portugal are privat . The one I am talking about is privat too. So the 20 € per person per night is a correct price I think.I have no idea of donative on the Norte nor the Frances but about the only donative in Portugal I know that 20€ per person is usance.
It is not only the food and drinks.
The (privat) owners have to cope with e.g.cleaning , energie and water costs, washing the sheets every day, and debugging the albergue. Every 2 months or so there comes a specialist to research the premisses for bedbugs and he certificates . I saw it once while being hopitaleiro .That was not cheap.
Then they have to reserve money for renewing things now and then like matrasses , sheets , blankets and at longer term renovations of bathrooms and sanitairy stuff.
The saddest thing I saw was that they had a kind of cardboard whisky container , the folks put the donative money into.
Some instead of putting it in , took the money outSo my wife and I decided to buy them a strong metal postbox with a lock , fixed at the wall so forever it was secured the money kept in. Untill today it is still working .
I do not think the owners will become millionaires and it is very hard working .
Yes, it was at Grañón where the average gift was 3 euros per pilgrim per day in 2018.I remember, in the donativo in Granon, the donation box was open and it had a sign "give what you can, take what you need".
This kind of places are not a normal business. I haven't worked as a volunteer nor run a donativo albergue, but that's the firm impression I got. It is about helping pilgrims of all kinds of backgrounds, even the poor, so that they can safely be on their way to Santiago. Even the less fortunate who can't pay or can't pay much. From what I've seen most of these places are not run by private people who "own" it, but the parrish, a pilgrim association or the town, and staff are usually volunteers who work there because they want to give back to the Camino and help other pilgrims.
I was in a private "donativo" in France one, and a pilgrim asked if he could stay without money if he helped around the place (pay by work). They said no, and later I heard them make fun of it, "what does he think, this is ia a business, not charity". Something like that. It was a donativo with fixed prices (you we're told how much you have to "donate", and *there* I did get the Impression it was done to avoid tax... But maybe it was a misunderstanding, my french is not very good).
I've often heard hospitaleros in donativos say, when everybody was at the dinner table, "the dinner today has been payed for by the donations of the pilgrims yesterday. The pilgrims today will pay for tomorrow's pilgrims". So basically, the more you donate, the better the pilgrims of the following days will eat.
So when you find the dinner in a donativo to be very basic, that might be the reason. Not because an owner wants to make more profit. The hospitaleros try to work with what they get. If there's no money in the box, it will be a soup and bread. If there's plenty, you might get wine and dessert. That's at least how I understood it.
It's a wonderful concept. It reminds you that you're on a pilgrimage, not on just another touristic hike. It's not always all about business and money.
(Of course donativos need money to function and stay open, but it's not their main goal to make profit, from what I understand).
Buen Camino!
That's sad. It is a wonderful place and deserves so much more.Yes, it was at Grañón where the average gift was 3 euros per pilgrim per day in 2018.
I'm not sure where that came from! Given the cynicism you expressed in your OP, those who appear to have a better understanding than you are displaying here are pointing out that this is a genuine labour of love for the owners. It is something I see often in Spain, and more often associated with the charity sector where I come from in Australia. Perhaps it is the same in the UK that we rarely come into contact with non-profit enterprises unless we are needy or have a philanthropic bent, and don't get exposed to what I see as a genuine willingness of the people in towns along the various Camino paths to help pilgrims.So are we saying that no donativos make a profit? I find that hard to believe.
We loved our service there. It is considered the Queen of Albergues in our hospitalero circles and an honor to be posted there. The idea is that if you can manage at Grañón then you can manage anywhere...That's sad. It is a wonderful place and deserves so much more.
I’m currently walking Del Norte which is wonderful! The weather is great along with the food, people and accommodation!
I’ve stayed in a couple of donation Albergues which again have been decent, offering dinner, bed and breakfast for a donation.
I got to thinking that the owners of these places probably do quite nicely thank you very much!
There was 8 of us staying, I threw €20 in the box on my way out, which felt about right? (I have no idea). If everyone did that that’s €160.
Whilst the meal was decent it was inexpensive to make, the breakfast was toast & coffee which is fine. The overheads looked like they were minimal. I’d say if he’s averaging 8, more in the summer, less in the winter. He’s probably doing ok. I can’t imagine the tax man knows too much about it either.
Anyway - just an observation. Long May they continue!
I am not sure if the Camino and the spirit and love of Camino is right for you. I grew up in The Bronx and there sure isn't much that offends me. I am probably about the least politically correct person you could meet. But your cynicism and complete lack of understanding of what a donativo is astounds me. As others have said for every 20E contribution there are way more people who leave nothing or just some loose change. I know this from personal experience after sitting in many reception areas of donativos watching people leave nothing or just some loose change. These people wake early and go to bed late. They cook, clean, pay taxes, pay skyrocketing energy costs, food, supplies for the albergue, albergue maintenance to fix things ungrateful tourists break, steal or abuse, buy food, the list goes on and on. You should be thankful and feel blessed that there are people who have way more love and generosity than you or I have working tirelessly in their labor of love. Pilgrims should walk each day giving thanks that they are lucky enough to walk these sacred steps.I guess like any business- some people just aren’t cut out for it. If your keeping your takings in a cardboard box then maybe the jobs not for you!
Sorry, I haven't read the previous comments (will go back and do so) but I had quite an immediate visceral reaction to your post which is quite uncommon for me. Why? Well after 12 years walking Caminos (14 different routes) and volunteering in donativo albergues 6 times, it is my experience that your comment is far from correct. In fact, the opposite is usually the case which is exactly why FICS and 19 other Camino associations are fighting to get the traditional (i.e. donation and volunteer based) albergues on the UNESCO list in order to protect them.I’m currently walking Del Norte which is wonderful! The weather is great along with the food, people and accommodation!
I’ve stayed in a couple of donation Albergues which again have been decent, offering dinner, bed and breakfast for a donation.
I got to thinking that the owners of these places probably do quite nicely thank you very much!
There was 8 of us staying, I threw €20 in the box on my way out, which felt about right? (I have no idea). If everyone did that that’s €160.
Whilst the meal was decent it was inexpensive to make, the breakfast was toast & coffee which is fine. The overheads looked like they were minimal. I’d say if he’s averaging 8, more in the summer, less in the winter. He’s probably doing ok. I can’t imagine the tax man knows too much about it either.
Anyway - just an observation. Long May they continue!
Again, thanks for giving your gift. You can now share what you know with others who may also have misinterpreted the Donativo model.Blimey that took a turn for the worse!
It’s gone from me suggesting someone has a decent business model and long may it continue to being told I shouldn’t be on the Camino!
There were 8 Pilgrims all decked out in Osprey and Berghaus gear and it didn’t occur to me for one second that one of them wouldn’t pay.
Anyway…lesson learnt. I guess it’s harder than I thought.
Long May they continue!
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