- Time of past OR future Camino
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grayland said:Actually, I have the same vibes that Annie has. Even here on the forum there seems to be a different undercurrent of expectations and understanding of the Camino than a year or so ago.
Many people now on the Camino or just returned have shared that the Camino spirit has flown and that there are a lot of people problems.
I wonder if Annie has noted if the problem is mainly with a particular group or groups?
It will be a shame if the Camino has changed that much and that the much loved comradeship is gone.
Hola Annie,Anniesantiago said:I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.
CaminoGen said:I have to say I'm not surprised to hear this. With all the talks of the "best" albergues, the "boring" parts to skip, etc. it is bound to change and become an "all-inclusive" type of vacation.
Anniesantiago said:Seems I hit a nerve
Here is this morning's comment to my blog
"Just read your post on Ivar's forum. I think you are talking nonsense. Why? Because you are a tourigrino like many others and not a real pilgrim. You have taken the bus for a large part. You walk very slowly like a tourist. You have an attitude problem. Your blog is full of negativity. If you are so unhappy, just leave"
blog comment said:"Just read your post on Ivar's forum. I think you are talking nonsense. Why? Because you are a tourigrino like many others and not a real pilgrim. You have taken the bus for a large part. You walk very slowly like a tourist. You have an attitude problem. Your blog is full of negativity. If you are so unhappy, just leave"
.
CaminoGen said:I have to say I'm not surprised to hear this. With all the talks of the "best" albergues, the "boring" parts to skip, etc. it is bound to change and become an "all-inclusive" type of vacation. The camino needs time and effort. Sorry if I offend anyone but I do believe that walking 4 days on the Camino does not mean you've done the Camino, just like spending a weekend on the Appalachian Trail doesn't make you a thru-hiker. I hope the camino will be a little quieter by mid-September when I rejoin the CF at Puente La Reina...
marigold said:For me the whole point of walking the Camino is to make do with very little, to be quiet and with myself, and to challenge myself. What's the point of doing it in luxury and comfort? You don't learn anything or experience anything different.
:
I have to humbly disagree with you. I don't think using wifi or a tablet makes you any less a pilgrim, nor does catching a bus or taxi. Nor does staying in a hotel. And some of the "tourigrinos" (which I regard as a pejorative term) become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation."marigold said:Rather than being contemplative, spiritual, walking for the inner experience, a lot seemed to just be having a holiday, staying in hotels, using Wifi and tablets, catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc.
annakappa said:if I can return next year, I will seriously give a thought to moving away from the Francés. Anne
billbennettoz said:I have to humbly disagree with you. I don't think using wifi or a tablet makes you any less a pilgrim, nor does catching a bus or taxi. Nor does staying in a hotel. And some of the "tourigrinos" (which I regard as a pejorative term) become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation."marigold said:Rather than being contemplative, spiritual, walking for the inner experience, a lot seemed to just be having a holiday, staying in hotels, using Wifi and tablets, catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc.
Stephen Nicholls said:Greetings from Suffolk! I have just returned from walking the southern half of the Camino Portuguese, from Lisbon to Porto. When I say 'walking' that included bus, train, taxi, car, lift and, of course, walking.
I'm writing up my diary now, and doing the sums, but I think I walked just over 50% of the route. I consider myself a true pilgrim. I cannot physically walk more than 20 kms a day. After the second day I had blisters which needed hospital attention. I still walked every other day, using transport in between. I found the pain was quite severe, but after ten or twelve kilometres it didn't get worse.
A wonderful journey, staying in small hotels and albergues where I was the only person. And, yes, I consider myself a pilgrim!
JabbaPapa said:4) catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc. --- I can actually understand this
David said:Annie, hi - so sorry that you have had to encounter these experiences - dropping back a couple of days and staying in 'intermediate' refugios might be improve things for you - I hope so. You were honest and open posting as you did but there will always be the type who respond in an accusatory way - stick your head above the parapet and someone will shoot at you ... ah well.
I thought it was just me ... I went to the Camino Frances earlier this year with my first aid equipment and noticed a difference .. I couldn't quite put my finger on it and assumed that it was me, that I was feeling different in some way. I met some wonderful pilgrims, bound them up, shared meals with them, and laughter - marvellous.
But .. well, a number of times I would arrive at a refugio and ask if anyone needed first aid and would just be waved away, as if I was a street trader with a handful of dodgy replica watches, and they would carry on talking to each other, leaving me just standing there - it was very rude, they didn't even speak to me, this happened quite a few times and rather put me off going to the refugios ... I couldn't work out why bon talking to each other, leaving me just standing there - it was very rude, they didn't even speak to me, this happened quite a few times and rather put me off going to the refugios ... I couldn't work out why. Was it me? Was it them?
At a service in that beautiful church in Los Arcos a number of pilgrims came in and were walking around chatting and taking photographs, ignoring all those on the pews - I was astounded!
Later I sat in the square and just observed the pilgrims, and noticed how many had really expensive clothing, fully 'kitted out' - so many more than in other years ...
... I put this rudeness that I met down to my having a jaded outlook and that I had just missed all that before - but now, after your post, I don't think so ...
to be honest it has rather put me of going again ... I will, of course ... but .. well .. but .. perhaps our time has passed? :|
The only 'rule' is that the pilgrim walks the final 100kms into Santiago.reg2450 said:I had the most wonderful Camino. Like many I hit the wall somewhere, and experienced my pilgrimage by walking through that, but I broke a lot of rules. apparently because my daughter and I caught a bus for 90kms, and therefore only walked 725 of the 830km from France, we were the "bus Catchers". Did anyone get that?
We walked 725kms.
I'm pretty sure God was impressed, particularly considering He never asked us to walk it in the first place....
Susannafromsweden said:JabbaPapa said:4) catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc. --- I can actually understand this
I don't. The best way to deal with the boring bits, I think, is to walk much faster. In that way, after a while, one enters "runners high", (or walkers high in this case :wink: ). That's an intense feeling of happiness. So when thinking back, these boring bits on my walks may have been the happiest. It's nice to think of that its not necessary that something fantastic must happen, or that you must have nice people around you, you can just walk on a boring road and still be happy.
If the weather is bad, then it's almost even better, because of the contrast between the outer misery and the inner happiness.
Ok I think so anyway.
Annie Little said:I have found this post and all the responders very enlightening.... all in different wayss..... David No-ones time has "passed" .... you may just be having a different experience than before....... as somoen else said ( (Zen I think he was) we are all " attached" to our own views ideas, etc...... that observation is enlightening in itself ....
Annie
bsewall said:I walked from Sevilla to Santiago this Spring. It was the most profound experience of my life.
And, yes, for a portion of the walk I took a bus. And what I learned - the Camino exists in your heart, not on a map. And - each pilgrim's experience is unique, there is no value in judging how another pilgrim walks their way.
One last comment - this has got to be one of the most disturbing, thought provoking and inspiring threads I've read on this forum. Some truly excellent comments. Thanks to you all.
Bill
Whatever the cause, it's temporary, as is everything in this life.Maybe it was the crazy weather, which at times seemed to wear some of us down. Or maybe it is the Spanish economy, which must be affecting Spaniards and foreigners alike.
JabbaPapa said:I have to humbly disagree with you. I don't think using wifi or a tablet makes you any less a pilgrim, nor does catching a bus or taxi. Nor does staying in a hotel. And some of the "tourigrinos" (which I regard as a pejorative term) become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation."
I agree mostly with you on this one, Bill.JabbaPapa wrote:
billbennettoz said:haha - JB - then what DON'T you agree with??
ha ha - as with most of your posts JabbaPapa, I am going to have to mull over that for a couple of days before I reply. You have done the "pure" pilgrimage, which I admire and respect.JabbaPapa said:billbennettoz said:haha - JB - then what DON'T you agree with??
hmmmmm, to tread carefully on the eggshells that you have been kind enough to spread before my feet, Bill, there's a virtue in the "pure" pilgrim experience with zero compromises that is lost every time that you accept a compromise -- with the usual caveats for medical or other serious difficulties or just the "trademarked" Camino Surprises that can sometimes force such compromises upon people's personal Way.
A good perspective, nicely said.giorgio said:Am very thankful for all encounters and situation the Camino 's brought and that's why i hope i'll be able to to keep going back again, and again, and again....
Giorgio
David said:" When you are a truly happy Christian, you are also a Buddhist and vice versa "
JabbaPapa said:David said:" When you are a truly happy Christian, you are also a Buddhist and vice versa "
Don't the Rules forbid discussing religion like this ? (as in : "1) Posts about your personal political or religious beliefs are not allowed." ?) (Or shall I post a Catholic critique of the above statement ?)
I feel exactly the same, as the father of two American college students.Phillypilgrim said:As a mother of an American college student, I would be thrilled if my son wanted to walk The Way as a rite of passage. And if I run into any American college students while I walk, I will most probably ask them where they go to school!
So yeah, I don't get it.
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