It's Different This Year

[David]

I met two of those 'terrible' American youngsters on Camino three years ago. This pair were Texans (Texicans, pilgrim)

They had been boyfriend and girlfriend and went on Camino together to see how they would respond to each other away from all home support and under duress - they had a wonderful time.

After that Camino they went home and married. I met them near Logrono on their second Camino, their honeymoon.

They were quite wonderful, they smiled a lot, they laughed a lot, they were young and in love and full of life and goodness - I wanted to take them home and keep them as pets.

I love the young - that energy, that openness, that belief that they already know lots, that willingness to learn more, that belief that the world can be made better, that willingness to love .... marvellous.

I say - get the young of the world out on Camino!

 

[Trekster]

I leave Toulouse tomorrow on the early train to begin my Camino. I promise to be nice, not steal other people's stuff or throw it on the floor and not book more than one albergue.

Most importantly, I'll do my best to be a good pilgrim, be of good humor and not sow discord.

 

[TREVOR GARRETT]

I leave Toulouse tomorrow on the early train to begin my Camino. I promise to be nice, not steal other people's stuff or throw it on the floor and not book more than one albergue.

Most importantly, I'll do my best to be a good pilgrim, be of good humor and not sow discord.

The route from Toulouse to Col de Somport is really beautiful well worth walking if you are back there again. Ultrea.

 

[David]

I leave Toulouse tomorrow on the early train to begin my Camino. I promise to be nice, not steal other people's stuff or throw it on the floor and not book more than one albergue.

Most importantly, I'll do my best to be a good pilgrim, be of good humor and not sow discord.

Hahaha - Buen Camino!!!

 

[colinPeter]

In the words of Sufi Muslim poet Rumi:
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase each other
doesn't make any sense."
Buen Camino.

Lovely sentiments.
However, try meditating on "ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing”, while driving down the freeway on the left in US, EU, (ect) or on the right in UK or Australia (ect). Good thing there were no cars in the 13th Century, or Rumi might have met his maker in “a Field”.

“Truth, of course, must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for we have made fiction to suit ourselves.” ― G.K. Chesterton, Heretics

Buen Camino
Colin

 

[robhay60]

In the words of Sufi Muslim poet Rumi:
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase each other
doesn't make any sense."
Buen Camino.

Lovely sentiments.
However, try meditating on "ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing”, while driving down the freeway on the left in US, EU, (ect) or on the right in UK or Australia (ect). Good thing there were no cars in the 13th Century, or Rumi might have met his maker in “a Field”.

“Truth, of course, must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for we have made fiction to suit ourselves.” ― G.K. Chesterton, Heretics

Buen Camino
Colin

Try meditating on "ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing", while driving down the freeway, well why not? If you think meditation only happens in particular places like a "cushion" or even a "Camino" then think again.. Its called by some to be a state of "Centred Awareness", and i believe it can actually improve your driving! Whether you are on the right or left side of the road...Or even walking right in the middle! Buen Camino :arrow:

 

[colinPeter]

...i believe it can actually improve your driving! Whether you are on the right or left side of the road...

On coming traffic might bring you back to the real world. Or not.

 

[clearskiescamino]

I met a lot of young people on the Camino (I am just back), including a group from an Irish college. They were the life and soul of the group I was walking with and really added to my time there. They always invited me to have dinner with them and thought of others. 'However' I did hear of some people who thought they were noisy and were negative to the fact that they needed to book albergues ahead (this was essential)
I'm Irish also and the camino changed me. Maybe they changed me? I'm not sure.

 

[NoorvanderVeen]

Well maybe these people are on the camino for us to learn a lesson from. Not to be judgemental of other people and decide for them whether they are a 'true pilgrim' (everyone makes his own camino), - not to go along with the negative vibes but be positive instead, (whatever comes on your way, you must deal with it) - realizing that it is much more relaxing and giving you much more satisfaction if you don't go along in the bed race and realizing the camino learned you to take a step back and take trust in the idea that the camino will always provide what you need.

That is what I learned, and it gave me great satisfaction. I took it with me after I went home; I'm much less judgemental of others and much more laid back. If you try to see every negative (camino) experience as a lesson, it's much easier to deal with.

For example; when my phone was stolen in O Cebreiro, I was able to say, 'hey, I'm glad it is my phone and not my photocamera (which carries photos that are of great worth to me)' or when the shoes of my boyfriend were stolen in Castrojeriz, we said to each other that we hoped the new owner would walk a good camino with them. > Also, when this happened, we realized there are SO MANY lovely people around that have the biggest heart and try to help you all they can. Negative experiences turning in to lovable memories.

 

[colinPeter]

That is what I learned, and it gave me great satisfaction. I took it with me after I went home; I'm much less judgemental of others and much more laid back. If you try to see every negative (camino) experience as a lesson, it's much easier to deal with.

For example; when my phone was stolen in O Cebreiro, I was able to say, 'hey, I'm glad it is my phone and not my photocamera (which carries photos that are of great worth to me)' or when the shoes of my boyfriend were stolen in Castrojeriz, we said to each other that we hoped the new owner would walk a good camino with them. > Also, when this happened, we realized there are SO MANY lovely people around that have the biggest heart and try to help you all they can. Negative experiences turning in to lovable memories.

Hola Noor,
That's a wonderful attitude you have.
Buen Camino.
Colin

 

[piogaw]

Hello annie

You are not mistaken. You are an experienced peregrina, and i know what you are talking. I, on the other hand, have walked only 2 caminos. However i am currently working as a hospitalero in sdc for the whole month of june.

I try not to be judgemental about the camino. I was very fortunate to be able to do the via de la plata this past winter via sanabres as compared to walk the camino frances may/june of last year. This is a big, big difference between the two and also at different seasons.

First of all i like to make some points, of course this is only my opinion. This forum is a forum for anyone to express their thoughts and feelings. Please refrain it from getting into a slugging match. Everyone is entiltled to their opinion whether you agree or not to what they are saying.

For the peregrinos doing the camino, remember this is your camino. You can do anything you want. You can take a taxi or bus or send yor mochillas to your next stage. The only stipulation to obtain a compostela, as mentioned numerous times in this forum, is if you are walking, you must walked the last 100 kilometres to santiago de compostela in order to receive your compostela. If you are starting from the last 100 kilometres from santiago, you must obtain 2 stamps (sellos) per day. You can get your sellos from the albergue, the ayuntamiento (city hall), church, police station, guardia civil office which is staffed 24 hours a day, restaurant, cafe-bars, etc. you will be asked at the pilgrim office whether you have walked the last 100 kilometres. It is up to you to answer honestly, as you will have to answer to a greater being upstair,- God.

Now, annie, i am really very sorry to hear of your problems. I also have some of the experiences you mentioned on the camino frances. However on the camino de la plata i have encountered other problems not very dissimilar to yours. The only good thing about walking the via de la plata is that i never have any problems of finding a bed. In almost all the albergues i was the only occupant. I met only about 8 peregrinos during a walk of 1000 kilometres in 36 days. My best friends on the via de la plata are: a cow, a horse, black pigs, ewes and sheeps, cows, bulls and more horses.

I hope this experience does not sour your thinking or anyone thinking of the camino. Come back to the
via de la plata in the spring and start from where you stopped off, and i am sure you will not find the problems you have encountered from astorga to sdc.

My experience as a hospitalero in sdc paints a very different picture of the peregrinos that come to stay at the albergues. My peregrinos here are mostly europeans and south americans of different ages, and they are the nicest most polite peregrinos that i have encountered. Of course my job here is to make them comfortable and to help them return to their homelands with the best memories while in sdc. We help them to buy airline tickets, bus and train tickets, help them with hotel reservations en route to their homes, help them to get around sdc in any way.

I think i have talk enough. To all present and future peregrinos, i like to say to you all.

Que tengan un buen dia y buen camino. Que dios os bendigas.

 

[Callea]

I'm currently walking my first Camino and I have to say I've thought about the particular thread for a few days now as I've walked. It has really bothered me, and I wasn't sure why. What I do know is that I couldn't let it go without adding my input, for what it's worth.

I wasn't bothered by the original post as much as I was by the reaction from some of the people who posted afterwards. One post in particular, by a moderator on this forum, really got under my skin where he mentioned that he sensed a new undercurrent on this forum. When someone questioned him about what he meant, he chose to answer in a pm rather than clarify his meaning in public. That's unfortunate, because I would like to know what he meant by that as well. Being new to the forum, it makes me wonder, am I part of this new undercurrent of negativity? There's no way for me to know if that's the perception unless the comment is clarified publicly.

I will say that I am having a truly magical experience here on the Camino. Not because I haven't run into any negative, nasty people walking and sharing the albergues with me, but in spite of those people. Maybe this isn't how it used to be. I have no idea. This is my first, and most likely only Camino. But the magic is still here for many of us first-timers. Perhaps we are having a different first time than those of you who have waked it in the past, but I'm ok with that. I've learned lessons from dealing with some of the most difficult people I've ever met along the way, that I'd never have learned if it had all been perfect. Or maybe, when I look back as a veteran, I will remember this first time for its magic alone, forgetting the bad times. And if I were to one day return, no longer having the filter of the first time magic, maybe I might say, "It's different this time." Who knows? I do know, the Camino always provides exactly what I need, exactly when I need it, even if it's a difficult person to teach me something about myself.

And so, I'll end by saying thanks for all the awesome advice I got from those who have gone before me. It's truly appreciated. If you have anything to say directly to me about what I have to say here, it will have to be on my blog, because I won't be back to the forum after this. I want to keep my magic, not focus on how awful the new pilgrims are.

 

[Jennifer Juniper]

NoorvanderVeen says"Negative experiences turning into loveable memories"That's an attitude we would all do well to adopt. Inspiring!Thank you for reminding us that often we can choose how to perceive our experiences. I say that with all respect to Annie, and real compassion for your disappointment. Like you, sometimes it doesn't take much to send me into a downward spiral, especially when something disturbing happens in a favourite, beloved place. I don't like it when ugliness or negativity interrupt my enjoyment of beauty-I'm just too stubborn to let it ultimately get the better of me. Since this thread began, and I posted about feeling heartbroken ( and a little scared, because my first Camino can't happen until next year), I've been wondering how I would have felt in Annies shoes.A lot of people, like NoorvanderVeen, have posted about how we should react; but the bottom line is we really don't know until it happens to us.Or, at least I don't. I can only try to do my best at the time.

 

[longwalker]

I leave Toulouse tomorrow on the early train to begin my Camino. I promise to be nice, not steal other people's stuff or throw it on the floor and not book more than one albergue.

Most importantly, I'll do my best to be a good pilgrim, be of good humor and not sow discord.

Nice.

 

[NoorvanderVeen]

NoorvanderVeen says"Negative experiences turning into loveable memories"That's an attitude we would all do well to adopt. Inspiring!Thank you for reminding us that often we can choose how to perceive our experiences. I say that with all respect to Annie, and real compassion for your disappointment. Like you, sometimes it doesn't take much to send me into a downward spiral, especially when something disturbing happens in a favourite, beloved place. I don't like it when ugliness or negativity interrupt my enjoyment of beauty-I'm just too stubborn to let it ultimately get the better of me. Since this thread began, and I posted about feeling heartbroken ( and a little scared, because my first Camino can't happen until next year), I've been wondering how I would have felt in Annies shoes.A lot of people, like NoorvanderVeen, have posted about how we should react; but the bottom line is we really don't know until it happens to us.Or, at least I don't. I can only try to do my best at the time.

You are absolutely right, sometimes we have no control over our feelings. I didn't mean to say that I always smile whenever something bad happens. All respect to Annie, I can totally imagine how she must feel. All I'm saying is that since we do not have te power to change things like this (you can't decide who is allowed on the camino and who isn't) we must make the best of it. Try to see the good instead of the bad. It makes no sense feeling all sad about the changing spirit on the camino; it is above all a personal journey and as long as you take strength and courage out of the good things and ignore the bad, the camino will still be magical. You might even value the little things more.

 

[Jennifer Juniper]

You are so right! Please note that what I said about Annie was addressed to her. I should have said "her", instead of "your". I realise how confusing that was.I so admire your positive attitude,NoorvanderVeen, and I wish I could do better with my own sometimes.

 

[peregrina2000]

I first saw this thread the day I arrived in Santiago and spent a lot of time thinking about it. I also wrote one or two replies which I then lost before posting, so here is try #3. First thing, though, is to say that I always appreciate anniesantiago's frank and no-holds-barred comments. You may disagree with her, you may insult her, but she won't take the bait and she sticks to her guns. So, thanks for that annie.

I walked the Levante from Valencia to Zamora and then Zamora to Santiago on the Sanabres, so my experiences are not going to be typical. On the Levante, I met (and walked with for 40 days) two French men, a French couple that walked a few days, a Dutch woman that may have left the camino after a few days, and two different Spaniards on one occasion in albergues never to be seen again. Plus a few cyclists in albergues, maybe 8 total. Like most of us, I have the first magical camino memories of the Camino Frances that I've tried mightily to preserve but not to use as a basis of comparison with others. So I would first say, that I would modify the title of this post a bit to say "it's different EVERY year." Last year I was totally alone for 20-odd days on the Vadiniense, this year I wound up walking with two others for what would have otherwise been another totally solitary experience. They were different, I can't compare them, but I wouldn't change a thing about either of them (well ok, I guess I would eliminate the bloody toes from the Vadiniense). But I know that's not what Annie is talking about. I was not going to have that kind of problem because of the numbers, so one way to avoid the problems caused by huge numbers is to go to a camino where there are not huge numbers.

North of Zamora, there were not huge crowds (we learned that this wave theory of the Vdlp seems quite accurate -- in Zamora, for instance, for the three days before we arrived, the albergue was full, on our night, there were about 12). But I did see a lot more of the kind of behavior that Annie described. People taking the bus and saying they walked (I have never seen this before so it was kind of a surprise to me), people trying to get something for nothing, people complaining about lots of silly little things, people "losing" food. But since the crowds weren't huge, it wasn't too hard to ignore and focus on the good stuff.

I've noticed that many of those who disagree with Annie's post are "first timers" -- I intend no disrespect or criticism, just want to point out that there is nothing more magical than your first camino, and that those of us who have done it before do it now with a different attitude maybe than those for whom this is the first time. When it's your first camino, you have no specific expectations, just a lot of excitement mixed with some anxiety, so you are much less likely to be disappointed, perhaps.

Sorry about blathering on here (chalk it up to jet lag), but I'll just add one little anecdote from my first Camino Frances in 2000. I met a woman who had walked it for the first time in 1993, I think, and she was wistfully remembering her first camino, in which she met a total of 12 pilgrims. She found the 2000 "crowds" to be terribly disruptive and that they had killed the true sense of pilgrimage she had experienced earlier. The more things change.....

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[DavidsRetired]

I like to relay a story from my recent Camino, while staying at an Albergue in Puerta de Najera. I was quietly sitting on the floor near my bunk, when a man about my age came along and stated, "Let's have a look at your feet". Although a tad abrupt and awkward, I understood that he was offering to help with blisters, and I simply smiled and said "No thank you". Well he was a bit put-off to say the least and mumbled a few words and ended by saying something along the lines of "….how I had plenty still to learn from the Camino…. and that this was his 3rd Camino and knew what he was talking about". Jokingly I said, "Would patience's be one of those lessons?" Suffice to say that my humour wasn’t appreciated.

Over the next hour, I watched this man try to interact with others and he seemed to grow more frustrated. As he was walking past me again, he noted me typing away on my Blackberry and said something unrepeatable about these damn devices; to which I mumbled, "yes, these damn vices". He didn’t get that either Anyway, I kept thinking about him and felt bad in some way, so I found him and asked him out for a beer. He was rather reluctant, but he eventually said yes. I said there was one caveat however; he had to listen to me talk for a minute or so, without interjecting and without getting mad.

The gist of what I said was…; just because you offer help, doesn't me others need nor have to accept it. In my case, I fortunately have no blisters, and was only stretching on the floor, when you interrupted me. As for devices on the Camino, I'm sure pilgrims of yesteryears took what conveniences they had with them as well. Therefore, what is the difference between a quill and parchment and a tablet or a phone? Or for that matter, a mule and a cart and a bus or taxi?

To further this point, I would add, what is the difference if someone wears rough cotton or high-tech clothing? It's simply the clothing of the day and if it was available 500-plus years ago, it would have been worn. As for where we sleep, whether in an Albergue, Hostal or Hotel makes no difference to the Camino. Some may enjoy the experience of staying at an Albergue, but this probably has more to do with the communal element than any other reason.

I find that many of our experiences, whether positive or negative can be attributed to mood or expectations; mostly our own. I once interrupted a discussion and was dismissed, to which I took it personally. Later on, I was told that I had simply arrived at the wrong time, and that the discussion was personal. The point is, we tend to make assumptions and judge far more often than we should with little or no basis of real information. As an example, I was typing away on my BB to my wife, who has always wanted to do the Camino as her father at age 80 (mid 1980's) walked the Camino. My wife now has MS, so I walked as her proxy and she enjoyed each days walk through my daily correspondence to her. If I didn’t have a phone, I would have been using a quill and parchment as noted above!

Anyway, I just wanted to share this experience and that in the end, I had a wonderful discussion with this gentlemen and that I found the Camnio to be a wonderful experience overall! P.S. I plan to walk again next May – can't wait!

 

[David]

But in the end we still have to respond from our heart, don't you think?

Buen Camino :wink:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvG1iVw8IjQ[/youtube]

 

[JabbaPapa]

You have a very pleasantly written blog, Callea

The simplicity that you express there is what the Camino is made of.

I will say that I am having a truly magical experience here on the Camino. Not because I haven't run into any negative, nasty people walking and sharing the albergues with me, but in spite of those people. Maybe this isn't how it used to be. I have no idea. This is my first, and most likely only Camino. But the magic is still here for many of us first-timers.

Callea, if we're to be perfectly frank about this, it's been that way since the Middle Ages. :wink:

Including the magic ... 8) :arrow:

Or maybe, when I look back as a veteran, I will remember this first time for its magic alone, forgetting the bad times.

hmmmm, all I'll say is that it looks like you're already starting to forget your own personal bad times on the Camino.

Personally, I've walked the Camino three times : each time was unique, the beauty was a different beauty each time, and the hardships very different too ; and if (God willing) I return back to the Camino in 2014, I most certainly do NOT expect that it will be the same again, either.

But I dunno -- I'm not generalising for other people either, and there certainly are some who seem to have some kind of personal affinity with the Camino that leads to a more sedate and less conflictual personal relationship with it.

 

[waxwing]

As a person who just bought her non-refundable tickets for her first Camino, I have found this thread to be both disturbing and inspiring. I want to thank all of you for your very well thought out perspectives.

With no experience with any past or current Caminos, I have only this to add, which I refer to often when people begin to tell me how much better (x) was in the (unspecified time in the past): http://xkcd.com/1227/ -- people have always felt this way about a multitude of things, but yet life, and the world, goes on. The only thing I can change is the future and my attitude.

Thanks again for all of your insights. I am excited and anxious (in a good way!) to begin in the heat and bustle of August and meet what comes.

 

[William Marques]

I think we get a post like this or more than one every year and they serve the very useful purpose of pouring cold water onto the expectations that some may have about the Camino. I doubt that anyone has walked from SJPP or wherever they start without some trouble or pain or loss on the way. We tend to forget those moments when we get home and remember the good times which is why sometimes this forum is almost too encouraging. A little deflating of dreams now and again is not a bad thing.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think we get a post like this or more than one every year and they serve the very useful purpose of pouring cold water onto the expectations that some may have about the Camino. I doubt that anyone has walked from SJPP or wherever they start without some trouble or pain or loss on the way. We tend to forget those moments when we get home and remember the good times which is why sometimes this forum is almost too encouraging. A little deflating of dreams now and again is not a bad thing.

Very well said !!!

The immediate psychological impact of the Camino is a combination of drudgery, disgust, and delight --- always has been ; always will be.

 

[jirit]

I think we get a post like this or more than one every year and they serve the very useful purpose of pouring cold water onto the expectations that some may have about the Camino. I doubt that anyone has walked from SJPP or wherever they start without some trouble or pain or loss on the way. We tend to forget those moments when we get home and remember the good times which is why sometimes this forum is almost too encouraging. A little deflating of dreams now and again is not a bad thing.

I am not sure it is case of pouring cold water onto the expectations of what some may have about the camino. I think we need to be respectful and sensitive to where people are coming from and what they have experienced.

For many this is their first camino (and maybe their only) camino and hence their expectations and experiences can be very different from somebody who has done it multiple times. An experienced pilgrim ( if one can actually use this term) might have a different set of expectations and thus experience some entirely different.

More so when we reference the camino, what camino are talking about? It is the camino Frances or some some our pilgrim trail? Each route is different and we should expect that individual experiences will vary depending on the route. And even if you decide the same route again like the camino frances, each time our expectations will be different and the experiences that follow, will vary.

As I suggested to one friend who was surprised by my comments on this forum, it is like falling in love - you rarely do not forget the first time. But is in life, the quality of our relationships that follow vary - some are great, others not so much.

Annie suggested "it's different this year". Rightly so, as it should be.

And to state you did not like something or something felt odd, or alternatively that you really did love something, is to be honest not with others but with yourself.

Annie should be applauded for her honesty.

 

[Jennybelle]

I'm leaving for the camino France's in six days and this has me in a bit of a panic. I have been dreaming of this camino for so long and I'd hate it to be ruined by Inconsideration and rudeness. I try and always lead by example and I hope my cheeriness, kindness and smiles will be contagious. Either way, I am sure that 90% of pilgrims will still be loving, open and kind. Or at least I hope so...

X

 

[Pieces]

then don't let "them" ruin it....

 

[Luka]

Re: Re: It's Different This Year

Hi Annie, still sad we just missed each other in rainy Caceres. The experiences you wrote about don't sound nice. I really hope things have changed for the better by now. Just a little thought: can it be that you are taking things more heavily this year?

Sorry about blathering on here (chalk it up to jet lag), but I'll just add one little anecdote from my first Camino Frances in 2000. I met a woman who had walked it for the first time in 1993, I think, and she was wistfully remembering her first camino, in which she met a total of 12 pilgrims. She found the 2000 "crowds" to be terribly disruptive and that they had killed the true sense of pilgrimage she had experienced earlier. The more things change.....

Overall, I think this is about the key! This would also explain the different reactions between (very) experienced pilgrims and first timers.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Camino de Santiago Forum mobile app

 

[Camino2014]

.....I've noticed that many of those who disagree with Annie's post are "first timers" -- I intend no disrespect or criticism, just want to point out that there is nothing more magical than your first camino, and that those of us who have done it before do it now with a different attitude maybe than those for whom this is the first time. When it's your first camino, you have no specific expectations, just a lot of excitement mixed with some anxiety, so you are much less likely to be disappointed, perhaps.

Sorry about blathering on here (chalk it up to jet lag), but I'll just add one little anecdote from my first Camino Frances in 2000. I met a woman who had walked it for the first time in 1993, I think, and she was wistfully remembering her first camino, in which she met a total of 12 pilgrims. She found the 2000 "crowds" to be terribly disruptive and that they had killed the true sense of pilgrimage she had experienced earlier. The more things change.....

Buen camino, Laurie

Laurie-

I think you hit a wonderful point. As a "first timer" myself, posts like these really have worried me, even to considering dropping my upcoming camino altogether!! But you are right in saying that without expectations, all we "newbies" have is a lot of excitement and anxiety. One negative post, and a lot of us, with no previous experiences to compare, are totally disheartened and convinced that this pilgrimage isn't worth the effort........ all without even taking the first step!

As a note to all others like me: As hard as it may be, don't use the experiences of others, positive OR negative, as a basis for YOUR camino!! The "best" albergue in 2013 might have a bedbug infestation by 2014! The beautiful views from the Route Napoleon, called "the best the Camino Frances has to offer" here on this forum, might be totally obscured on the particular day you walk thanks to rain! Not to say this all will happen, but don't go in with ANY ideas. It's a pilgrimage. Not a Trafalgar tour.

Rather, think of each day as box of surprises, which can be either good or bad. Thanks to many of the wonderful people on this forum, I will take my first steps on the Camino next year with this mentality. I encourage all others, first timers or veterans, to do the same.

Ultreïa!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The Camino is like Soylent Green; it's people. All kinds in all kinds of moods. Behind the inspiration, magic, religion, and spirituality is a lot of hard work. One of my regrettable moods was being rude to a hospitalero who was giving me a long and gracious greeting, when all I wanted wasa bed and shower. He had the Camino spirit and I did not. I partially atoned with an apology and a bottle of wine. I would have preferred having a time machine to reverse the event,'but I had packed lightly and left it at home.

It would have come in handy for walking in the good old days. There is too little typhus and too few bandits in the bad new days...

Go. Have a good time. Don't expect saints, even in yourself.

 

[jirit]

Discussing different caminos and different experiences...

I fondly remember all the wonderful times of my first camino - the camino Frances in Spain. And I have conveniently nearly forgotten all the difficult times. It was these experiences that motivated my wife and I decided to do another pilgrimage but this time in Italy walking the Via Francigena. However armed with a set of expectations from my first camino in Spain, I was both shocked and disappointed when I would learn the Via Francigena was nothing like the Camino Frances in Spain.

But it was not until I walked in Austria, that I would learn that each pilgrimage is different, much depends on the people you meet and friends you make, the surroundings, the mood you are in, and a host of other factors. By the time I finished this third pilgrimage, I was fondly remembering all the good things about the Via Francgiena and again conveniently forgetting all the difficult times.

For my fourth pilgrimage, I left on a week's notice to re walk the camino Frances again, after declaring I would not walk it again. I did not even have time to formulate a set of expectations and was pleasantly surprised by the outcome.

My fifth pilgrimage was from Le Puy to Lourdes and I could best described it has a pleasant enjoyable but at times wet walk through the french countryside.

While I have described my six pilgrimage this time from Seville to Santiago along the Via de la Plata as unsettling at times, I am sure I over time, I will start to fondly remember the good times and conveniently forget the more difficult moments. As we took the train back to Madrid I was already thinking about my next camino.

Such is life.

 

[pattymo97206]

Last fall I walked 200+ miles with Annie from SJPP to Santiago. We were on a bus part of the time and in taxis part of the time. Annie gave us good advice...go with no expectations..which I did and it was better than I ever imagined. I knew even before I left Spain, that I would return and walk the entire 790+k cause I felt as if I had left something unfinished. So, I"m going back in May 2014 and in many respects, I will be a "newbie". I'm going on my own (with another Newbie) and without plan and will let the Camino just unfold. I've read on another post that pilgrims are experiencing a lot of difficulty in finding a bed very early in the day. I must admit that has me put off..alot. And, I admit, that Annie's post had me worried, also. I don't want to be disappointed or disillusioned on my first complete pilgrimage (and maybe my last, due to my "advanced age" ). However, those are someone else's experiences and doesn't mean I will have the same and if I do, I'll deal with it. So, I'm going in May 2014, fear and anxieties be damned. BTW..Annie is an awesome person and fun to hang out with.

Patty

 

[Tedh]

Perhaps it's bit of the uncertainty in the world with a combination of commercialism and people who may be looking for something, but don't realize that they are. Just an idea to walk the path, but no real inner direction - If you see what I mean. That often spills out in anti-social ways - they're frightened.

I'm looking at the early part of September to start my first journey on the Camino, so it should be interesting to see if things have lightened up a bit.

 

[colinPeter]

I'm leaving for the camino France's in six days and this has me in a bit of a panic. I have been dreaming of this camino for so long and I'd hate it to be ruined by Inconsideration and rudeness. I try and always lead by example and I hope my cheeriness, kindness and smiles will be contagious. Either way, I am sure that 90% of pilgrims will still be loving, open and kind. Or at least I hope so...X

Hola Jennybelle,
Like others have said, the Camino is a bit like life, rude/inconsiderate people & polite people. In 2009 I recall a few rude/inconsiderate people, in 2012 I recall a few rude/inconsiderate people.
However, I met many, many wonderful people on both occasions, they're the ones I remember with fondness today.
I suspect your Camino will be very similar. Might be a bit more crowded in June, so a few more rudies but probably many more good people.
Buen Camino
Colin

 

[flyswatty]

I think we get a post like this or more than one every year and they serve the very useful purpose of pouring cold water onto the expectations that some may have about the Camino. I doubt that anyone has walked from SJPP or wherever they start without some trouble or pain or loss on the way. We tend to forget those moments when we get home and remember the good times which is why sometimes this forum is almost too encouraging. A little deflating of dreams now and again is not a bad thing.

Very well said !!!

The immediate psychological impact of the Camino is a combination of drudgery, disgust, and delight --- always has been ; always will be.

I've been enjoying all of the dialogues on the various dimensions of the Camino. It's such a metaphor for what happens in life. On the Camino, there are those high moments as well as the ones in which you struggle; there are individuals or groups of folks who might get under your skin and those with whom you may have incredible moments; there is the drudgery of the rain and mud and the warmth of the sun; there are the adjustments in expectations that one may have to make along the road. Anything and all is possible on the Camino. For me, all of the experiences of the past journey will be memorable and will contribute to a deeper level of depth and development. Each Camino that one does provides a different experience and that's what can make it so special. I embrace the surprises and possibilities (positive and negative) that the Camino reveals along the way. I look forward to what awaits when I return in the future!

 

[flyswatty]

Last fall I walked 200+ miles with Annie from SJPP to Santiago. We were on a bus part of the time and in taxis part of the time. Annie gave us good advice...go with no expectations..which I did and it was better than I ever imagined. I knew even before I left Spain, that I would return and walk the entire 790+k cause I felt as if I had left something unfinished. So, I"m going back in May 2014 and in many respects, I will be a "newbie". I'm going on my own (with another Newbie) and without plan and will let the Camino just unfold. I've read on another post that pilgrims are experiencing a lot of difficulty in finding a bed very early in the day. I must admit that has me put off..alot. And, I admit, that Annie's post had me worried, also. I don't want to be disappointed or disillusioned on my first complete pilgrimage (and maybe my last, due to my "advanced age" ). However, those are someone else's experiences and doesn't mean I will have the same and if I do, I'll deal with it. So, I'm going in May 2014, fear and anxieties be damned. BTW..Annie is an awesome person and fun to hang out with.

Patty

You Go Girl! Resiliency will take you far and through all of it. Enjoy!

 

[Caminomary525]

Before people get TOO critical of those who use luggage transport services, this short documentary seems to show that luggage transport has been part of the Camino for a long time, even in the good old days. However, I think the peregrinos in the documentary should have read the equipment section of this forum for clothing suggestions.

http://www.elcaminosantiago.com/Camino-Video-Peregrina ion-1963.htm

 

[grayland]

Before people get TOO critical of those who use luggage transport services, this short documentary seems to show that luggage transport has been part of the Camino for a long time, even in the good old days. However, I think the peregrinos in the documentary should have read the equipment section of this forum for clothing suggestions.

http://www.elcaminosantiago.com/Camino-Video-Peregrina ion-1963.htm

Your link seems to be broken. Perhaps you could edit it to get it working.

 

[JALAN JAUH]

Hi Caminomary525

Thank you for sending us a link to view the video. The website should have been: http://www.elcaminosantiago.com/Camino- ... n-1963.htm

Every era has its gaurdians (official as well as self appointed) for the Purity of The Walk. The degree of tolerance and strive to ensure harmony varies between individuals......but nothing beat the pure honesty expressed in this forum. Take heart Anniesantiago, you have brought this into the open and there has been many constructive comments (and a video) from your honest comments.

I would hate to see you withdraw from contributing in this forum, you are one of the key anchors who supplies much needed practical and pragmatic inputs. With MP (may he rest in peace) no longer contributing we need you more than ever.

Joe

 

[JALAN JAUH]

Hi Grayland,

I have fixed up the link so all can view the video which Caminomary525 so kindly led us to view.

Although I edited the web address so all can watch the tremendously beautiful black and white documentary, I could not re-insert the edited portion where they got lost and instead of asking the farmer where to follow the Yellow Arrows they whipped out their iPhone with GPS :mrgreen: to put them back on the right track.

Joe

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is quite natural to be irritated when you are denied a bed because of a baggage service. What you do with that irritation is the measure of the situation. For example if it ruins your day, you are letting others control your attitude, the only thing on the Camino that YOU control!

 

[JabbaPapa]

As a pilgrim, I've always been a "purist", but particularly after my walk to Rome in 2000, I've really learned not to judge other pilgrims on the basis of my own "purist" tendencies.

So, whilst I personally disagree with most of those who use a pack transport service, as I think they're making compromises with the Camino, I'll certainly never BLAME them, as I might have done in '93 or '94 ... and besides, some of those using those transport services or having motorised back-up can certainly NEED these things for medical reasons, so who am I to judge anyone in particular in the face of my complete ignorance about their state of health ?

Indeed, if I DO go with my neighbour back onto the Camino in 2014, his leg and state of health are worse than mine, and I'd actually point out this possibility for pack transport to him myself ...

These are not matters that should be causes for either guilt or recriminations ; though as a "purist" I can't help but point out that there is a great beauty to be found in walking every inch of the Way, and to carry your pack every inch of the Way too, and that compromises with the Camino or constraints that may be caused by having underestimated the number of days necessary for walking from one's starting point to Santiago do not help to provide that particular beauty, notwithstanding that in particular cases those compromises might be entirely unavoidable.

My position as a Camino "purist" these days would be to try and teach people that the uncompromising approach to the Way is the best, but to NEVER blame anyone for choosing differently.

Their Camino is NOT my Camino. I'm no "better" a pilgrim than they are, and the "purist" approach doesn't make you any "superior" to anyone else either, no more than the foot pilgrims might be "superior" to the cyclists.

 

[Daxzentzu]

I totally agree

 

[clearskiescamino]

Good point Jabbapapa

 

[colinPeter]

As a pilgrim, I've always been a "purist", …….
I've really learned not to judge other pilgrims on the basis of my own "purist" tendencies………
….though as a "purist" I can't help but point out that there is a great beauty to be found in walking every inch of the Way, and to carry your pack every inch of the Way…
My position as a Camino "purist" these days would be to try and teach people that the uncompromising approach to the Way is the best, but to NEVER blame anyone for choosing differently……..
…….. I'm no "better" a pilgrim than they are, and the "purist" approach doesn't make you any "superior" to anyone …..

Yes, I agree with that, although I’m definitely not a purist.
In 2009 I met a Frenchman, Jacque, in San Juan de Ortega, over dinner he asked me “do you bear your pack?” I affirmed that I did, an answer which seemed to gain his nodded approval.
In 2012 I met another Frenchman just outside of Portomarin, we walked a while but never exchanged names. He looked at me and said strongly, “You are crazy to carry a pack at your age.” He then went on to talk about how much more enjoyable it was walking with a day pack.
As JabbaPapa mentioned, one man’s view is not superior to the other.
However, I enjoy carrying my pack. In fact I love the feeling of putting that weight on my shoulders and setting off every morning. Portions of my day is spent “feeling” the weight as I walk and think or pray about people who are doing it tough. But that’s my Camino; the thought of not doing a section would take some of that from me.
Still, I know I’m not a purist, as my wife and I generally stay in Hostals/Pensions whenever we can, I ring ahead as we walk to book for the night. So, definitely not a purist.
So, just do what you feel you want to do and enjoy the journey.
Buen Camino
Colin

 

[Anniesantiago]

First, thise who continue to comment on my first post have not read the entire thread. I paused, let that group walk past, and things have greatly improved. I still believe things have changed, but im feeling more positive. Thanks to those who were supportive during my tough time

Second, i apologize for typos. I am on an iphone and have fat fingers! Lol!

Third. From my blog:

The Camino does not begin in St Jean or Roncesvalles. Traditionally, it begins at your front door. So a true 'purist' to me would walk and carry their pack from their front door, swimming across oceans and rivers and crossing great mountain ranges if necessary.

However, the Catholic Church and the pilgrim office in Santiago have set certain requirements for a person to receive their Compostela in recognition of completing those requirements. In other words, if you complete the requirements, you are a 'true pilgrim' in the eyes of the Church and of the pilgrim office. All other opinions are simply that...opinions... including my own. If you walk from Sarria and get two stamps per day in your credential, you qualify! If you walk for religious or spiritual reasons you get the Compostela. If you walk for any other reason you still get a beautiful certificate and are still considered a pilgrim.

I considered myself a pilgrim on my first Camino. I no longer walk a pilgrimage. I simply am here walking for my health.

Thanks to Sillydoll, I acted as facilitator for two small groups last year, charging just enough to cover my own costs and expenses. The trips were designed for those who were unable to take a full six weeks to walk from St. Jean to Santiago.

In my opinion, the people I helped are no less pilgrims than those who walk from anywhere else. If you start at your own doorstep, it is not always possible to walk. People don't swim across oceans. They fly or go by boat. Historically, many made this pilgrimage by horse, cart, or both.

My walkers did not generally take up space in albergues. We booked and paid for private lodging. But that doesn't matter because where you sleep is of no importance.

The ONLY criteria for this pilgrimage that I am aware of is that you walk the last 100 kilometers from Sarria and that you get two stamps per day.

You can walk, run, skip, hop, take a car, bus, train, fly on a broomstick, or go by horse or donkey. You can hire a man to give you a piggy back ride to Sarria. They don't care in Santiago.

You can walk barefoot, in boots, tennis shoes, sandals, or on stilts. You can roller skate to Sarria if you want to! They don't care in Santiago!

You can carry your pack, or have it transported. You can pull it on a cart or push it in a wagon. You can tie helium balloons to it or have it dropped each night by helicopter. You can tie it to your dog's back or give it to a local dragon in exchange for a daily roasted chicken! They don't care in Santiago!

You can wear the same clothes every day and carry no pack at all if you want. Nobody cares!

As far as where you sleep, you can sleep in an albergue, in a tent, in your car, under the stars, in a haystack or in a Parador. It does not matter in Santiago!

You can be Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Bahai, Moslem, pagan, Wiccan, or atheist. You can be straight, gay, bisexual, asexual, sleep by yourself or with a different partner each night and if you have walked from Sarria and have two stamps per day on your credential, nobody cares.

You can be nice, mean, funny, angry, mentally stable or totally whacked. You can whine and cry and moan and groan or you can pray and help others along the Way. You can be a criminal, a sinner, a prostitute or a virgin and if you walk from Sarria and have two stamps per day, you are as 'real' as it gets.

You can hire a porter to carry your pack right up to the pilgrim office desk and if you yourself have walked from Sarria and you have two stamps per day on your credential, you are considered to have completed the requirements for the pilgrimage.

So.

There you have it.
The answer according to Santiago to the question, "what is a REAL pilgrim?'

Whether or not Santiago's definition is the same as each person's own definition is another matter. Whether or not we like Santiago's definition is another, still.

But the fact remains...

If you walk from Sarria and you get two stamps per day in your credential...you ARE a pilgrim according to Santiago.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The Pilgrims in Lourdes are mostly in wheelchairs, pushed by others. I am not sure you even need St. James to be a pilgrim.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Well said, Annie !!!

 

[Susannafromsweden]

Really. I thought there were two compostelas, a real one and one which is just a diploma that you have walked 100 km. For those who aren't doing it for religious reasons. Having that one doesn't make your pilgrim, does it?

And. I got my credencial here next to me. It says: a pie, en bicicleta, a caballo.
I can't see "bus and taxi" there?
Surely they did not mean that one should travel by bus here and there all over Spain to visit just the nice cities, and then hop off and walk the last 100 km?

 

[Deleted member 22638]

Pilgrimage is a state of mind as well as specific actions. Many years ago I flew to Lourdes - I was a pilgrim, and the atmosphere I wager, closer to a medieval pilgrimage including the simple shrine, ornate church, and tacky gift shops, the sick and the dying.

Last year I flew to Rome, stayed at a religious hostal, took a coach to the many famous pilgrim shrines and sights including Assisi - ascended the Scala Sancta on my knees , I was a pilgrim. This year I flew to Biaritz, walked from SJPdP, when I was really tired or sore or needed a pick up I would use a pension, or Casa Rural - four times in all - I was a pilgrim - next year, God willing, I would like to fly to the Holy land and would look to take a coach to the famous biblical sites as a pilgrim.

The Camino was very special and I feel certain I will be back walking but it (walking) is not the only way to be a pilgrim.

However being uncharitable ( selfish / thoughtless) makes for a poor pilgrim and a poor pilgrimage and for those they meet. So I think the question is how should one respond to the uncharitable ? is walking away to get ahead the answer ?

 

[anniethenurse]

Hola Susanna,

there is one Compostela http://peregrinossantiago.es/eng/pilgri ... ompostela/

and one Certificate. Which one you get depends on

1) if you walked the last 100 km (or on a horse or a bike 200 km) and have the two stamps each day for the last 100 - 200 km
2) your purpose religious or not religious.

Info on the credentials http://peregrinossantiago.es/eng/pilgri ... redencial/

Sorry Annie, we hijacked your thread.
Buen camino and love to you Annie and all those on the camino on the longest day of the year 2013.

 

[William Marques]

I know the question "Who is a pilgrim?" is one worth asking and one which I suspect has as many answers as there are answerers but it deserves a thread of its own and is slightly off the topic which is "It's different this year". Please can we move back in that direction. Thanks

 

[Anniesantiago]

Really. I thought there were two compostelas, a real one and one which is just a diploma that you have walked 100 km. For those who aren't doing it for religious reasons. Having that one doesn't make your pilgrim, does it?

And. I got my credencial here next to me. It says: a pie, en bicicleta, a caballo.
I can't see "bus and taxi" there?
Surely they did not mean that one should travel by bus here and there all over Spain to visit just the nice cities, and then hop off and walk the last 100 km?

Pilgrim. From the Latin 'peregrinum' - one who journies in foreign lands. Also one who journeys to a sacred place. Places are sacred to all religions, including pagan ones. There is apparently evidence Finisterra was sacred long before the Christians arrived, as was the route under the Milky Way.

Yep. Walking the last 100 k and getting two stamps a day makes you a pilgrim. And if you want to bus to every city in Spain or even Europe, as long as you walk the last 100 k and get two stamps per day you are a pilgrim.

In my opinion, to insinuate someone who is not walking for religious reasons is any less valid; that is the judgmental person's problem, not the pilgrim's. Just as my feelings of change are my problem, not the ones who inspired those feelings. People walk for many different personal reasons.

And I have no idea 'what they meant' when they authored their credentials. I only know that NOW, the requirements are as I stated, to my knowledge.
:::shrug:::

 

[JALAN JAUH]

I am a pilgrim. I was made to sit at a breakfast table marked PILGRIM in a Convent off Via Dolorosa in the old City of Jerusalem for the entire week I was in Jerusalem. Falcon 269 wrote:

I am not sure you even need St. James to be a pilgrim

I was not too happy being labelled a PILGRIM when I had to take up the accommodation in the Convent because there were no hotel rooms during the period at that time when the Muslim and Jewish New year coincided. I was even more unhappy when my table of PILGRIMS, comprising of hardened learned international intellectual scholars of various ages and none were shy to express the most irreverent opinion of what they saw and heard on the tours they took around the Holy City.

Falcon 269, you can be sure that we did not need St. James to be labelled PILGRIMS, like it or not, in the eye of the Jerusalem Convent administration. It was nice coming from them as they did not know mass times as most of them were not Christians at the front desk.

Joe

 

[Pieces]

I would never take it upon myself do "teach others what was best" only tell them what was best for me and only when invited...

Actually, I firmly believe that such a thing as "best" is not even possible to identify, maybe not even for oneself...

 

[fraluchi]

Is it just me? Or is the Camino different this year?
People are not as kind. There are a lot of people acting more like tourists, complaining and even arguing with nuns about which bed they get. Stealing food. Stealing clothes and towels. I'm just getting more and more depressed.

This has happened occasionally to me over the past many "Caminos". Yet, being a hotelier, this sort of behaviour is not new. There always seems to be a black sheep within the flock. However, I didn't have the feeling (this past May) that there have been substantial comparative changes. :roll:
It is a fact, though, that one should always watch belongings. Whether in a "pilgrim albergue", a hostal or hotel, or at the airport (there are plenty of warnings in this respect!). As far as "kind" people are concerned, the more they are stressed, the less patience they have. "Tourigrinos" tend to suffer more from stress than "peregrinos". It's a social problem. :evil:
The mentioned nuns were probably not able to distinguish between one or the other. :|
Depending upon nationality, likes and/or dislikes may vary according to their habits and consequently their subjective behaviour. :?:
Personally I dislike the inevitable "french fries" on the pilgrim's menu and will ask for something more imaginative. If my mood is right I'll be diplomatic. If not I'll be a pain. :mrgreen:
Considering the above, I wouldn't frighten off any future pilgrims. :wink:
Ultreya :!:

 

[pattymo97206]

Last Fall, fairly early in the walk, I met a man from Canada and was totally "turned off" by his loud negative comments, complaining, whining, etc. etc. I managed to get behind him (I'm a pretty slow walker" and didn't see him again until Vianna and OMG!! A friend an I were walking around the village and we both saw him and couldn't believe our eyes. He was tanned, fit looking, smiling, laughing, relaxed surrounded by friends. I guess it had been a only a few days since I"d last seen/heard him, but my goodness, what a change! The Camino apparently worked it's magic!

 

[Phillypilgrim]

I am wondering.....
It is possible for us to omit the country of origin for our stories? Loud Canadian, irritating American college students etc. Perhaps it is only me, but I find it uncomfortable.

 

[grayland]

I am wondering.....
It is possible for us to omit the country of origin for our stories? Loud Canadian, irritating American college students etc. Perhaps it is only me, but I find it uncomfortable.

Sorry for your discomfort....but the posts you refer to do not seem to be out of line with the norm of the forum.
Maybe you are a bit sensitive for some of the threads and should be a bit more choosy about which threads in which you choose to participate. I don't think the forum is about to change old habits. :wink:

 

[efdoucette]

I am wondering.....
It is possible for us to omit the country of origin for our stories? Loud Canadian, irritating American college students etc. Perhaps it is only me, but I find it uncomfortable.

Sorry for your discomfort....but the posts you refer to do not seem to be out of line with the norm of the forum.
Maybe you are a bit sensitive for some of the threads and should be a bit more choosy about which threads in which you choose to participate. I don't think the forum is about to change old habits. :wink:

I take exception to your post. I am a Canadian and don't consider "us" to be a loud breed. Perhaps you are referring to the "norm of the forum" as the irritating moderators.

 

[Phillypilgrim]

Yep, I hear you Grayland. Still getting the "hang" of the forum and the interesting conversation.

 

[colinPeter]

I take exception to your post. I am a Canadian and don't consider "us" to be a loud breed. Perhaps you are referring to the "norm of the forum" as the irritating moderators.

I consider the moderators do a generally thankless job, very well.

 

[Kimmy]

Annie, I want to thank you for bringing this subject up and that you are being so generous with sharing your feelings. I hope you do not regret posting it, because this thread has become a very important one I think. When I first read your post and the following posts I became sad because I am about to do my second camino in September. I realized a lot has probably changed since my last one in 2006, but not to that extent. Then I became happy that I got to know a little bit of the new challenges I might encounter so that I did not set out with too much of expectations.

As for tourogrinos and peregrines I have to admit I started out from SJPP as a tourogrina, with no clue what a pilgrimage really was. In the beginning i even felt uncomfortable saying the word pilgrim out loud. I just wanted an adventure with more soul to it than a normal hike. Of course my soul really wanted and needed a Camino but I was not aware of it at that point. In the beginning I was speed walking and in my head the Camino was some sort of competition, unclear of what kind, but still. I was never rude to anyone and was always respectful both towards the church and to other people, but I definitely did not see my trip as a pilgrimage. It took me quite a while to calm down and just find my way into myself, but when I walked into Santiago a couple of weeks later it was as a pilgrim, no doubt. And in the years ever since I have become more and more of a pilgrim over time. My life has changed completely, all in a good way. Before the Camino I was looking for the answers in the wrong places, but with the help of the Camino I have found my true core within and so look forward to do a second and conscious camino

So, what am I saying - Maybe the camino has changed lately. The whole society is more ego today so it would be strange if it was not reflected on the camino as well. If more and more people with only a dim picture of what a pilgrimage is are walking the Camino we should welcome them with open hearts and embrace them. Not all people will perhaps become peregrinos during their walk, but maybe the Camino will nestle into their hearts and become a starting point for something new and good. People may be rude and seem to be in the wrong place, but I would like to think that that is why they need to be on the Camino. They may not know it, but their hearts led them there, in one way or another. So I believe that all senior peregrinos play a very important part as role models for the new ones. People will not always thank you for showing the proper and an unselfish behaviour, but in the end it may be that one thing that you say or do that is making them see things clearly.

Now that I have been thinking about this thread for a few days I came to the conclusion that it is great that the camino is not filled with only those who are already true pilgrims at heart, but also with those who REALLY, REALLY NEED a camino. If more of those who really needs it would find the footpath to Santiago the world would definitely be a better place. And better do it an un-pure way, than not doing it at all. So Annie, and all you experienced peregrinos out there please do not leave CF. People need you there, they just don't know it. And you need to be there, but maybe not in the way you expected. The Camino provides. Magic!

 

[jirit]

We really have to thank Annie for posting this topic - in just over a week, it has received over 6,500 views and 162 replies. Clearly it has impacted many on this forum.

I like to believe that one of the takeaways from this discussion is that the camino is "different", each and every time, for each of us.

It is different from our everyday lives (unless we have discovered a way to walk the camino continuously and make a living from doing this). I am sure there are some veteran camino posters that might have something to say about this.

And based on the range of comments it is different for each of us and different each time we do it.

That is maybe why so many people are attracted to it and why even today the topic invites much discussion and passion.

Good on you, Annie

 

[grayland]

[quote="efdoucette
I take exception to your post. I am a Canadian and don't consider "us" to be a loud breed. Perhaps you are referring to the "norm of the forum" as the irritating moderators.[/quote]

Good Grief.... :cry:

 

[Kitsambler]

Sorry, folks, but I believe the point has been missed.

It is possible for us to omit the country of origin for our stories?

I think Phillypilgrim is attempting to encourage civility, rather than unintentional (or even intentional) stereotyping. This is a virtue! Let's cheer him/her on!

 

[annakappa]

Hi Camillis, I love your post. I think you have expressed what many pilgrims, maybe unconsciously have discovered. Thank you! Anne

 

[flyswatty]

I am wondering.....
It is possible for us to omit the country of origin for our stories? Loud Canadian, irritating American college students etc. Perhaps it is only me, but I find it uncomfortable.

Yes, absolutely! I made a generalization in one if my posts and have had a good chance to reflect on a lot - the posts and my own recent walk. The feedback on a lot of different threads (mine included) has been interesting and lessons learned. Thanks for the feedback. S

 

[Hope-ologist]

Wow, bad attitudes and behavior has no place on the Camino. One of the reasons I'm walking the Camino is to raise money here in the US for head and neck cancer research. Another reason is because I'm an active cancer fighter. I'm excited to be alive and have recovered enough after four long years fighting. We'll be handing out t-shirts and wrist bands to people just like us. The point is that unless anyone whining, complaining and acting out can top what I've been through and physically struggling to get from Sarria to Santiago, they would serve themselves better by not bringing that stuff around around us. People grow and change on the Camino. Baby miracles happen all to often. If someone can't get their arms around that and have more respect for the Camino, then stay away from it.

 

[colinPeter]

I am wondering.....
It is possible for us to omit the country of origin for our stories? Loud Canadian, irritating American college students etc. Perhaps it is only me, but I find it uncomfortable.

I'm not sure how practical it is to sanitized a forum to the extent that nationalities can't be mentioned. Of course, it is certianly not right to denegrate a particular nationality, because of the actions of individuals, but I don't think it appropriate to " ban" all references to nationalities.
For example, do we ban referring to the good qualities of various nationalities. The beautiful Frenchwoman, the handsome Italian, the kind Spaniard, the gentle Canadian, the very polite Amercan student... Are these expressions OK?
Again let's resist over generalization, but let's be able to "tell it how it is", and let's try not be be overly sensitive when people express their story in detail.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I would never take it upon myself do "teach others what was best" only tell them what was best for me and only when invited...

Actually, I firmly believe that such a thing as "best" is not even possible to identify, maybe not even for oneself...

Fair enough -- though I would also point out that the very heart of any teaching is to be open to the needs and desires and opinions of the other, in the first place ... and to be fair, you're simply trying to teach something else yourself, by saying that

Anyway, bottom line : Ultreia !!!

 

[Tia Valeria]

One of the different things this year seems to be some 'over-sensitivity' to some situations on the Camino (not referring to Annie here) and also posts on the forum. This is not to forget some lack of sensitivity too by some posts, some of which have been deleted from various threads.

Not mentioning nationalities however would leave the forum lacking something surely. Meeting one 'loud Canadian' doesn't mean all are loud. We encountered loud Germans, English and Spanish - to the point of desperation at 2.00am one morning near Santiago. We also encountered some lovely Germans, English and Spanish............

If we can read/talk about the good then sometimes we must read/talk about those who are not so good and the possible solutions.

 

[Annie Little]

HOPE_OLOGIST - I hope your post in not overlooked by others..... puts everything in perspective doesnt it ?? I have not suffered your delemna but work for those who do ... I wish you well... we all need a positive outlook to survive life.... I thought that was what the Camino is all about... welll I still do... but this forum shows we are human no matter what we think we know..... your journey puts it all in perspective

Buen Camino
A

 

[Pieces]

I believe that the fact that there are people out there dying and starving really doesn't give anyone the right to judge the hardships of those who does not happen to fall into one of these categories...

besides, one cannot really tell anyone's hardships by looking at them...

pain and suffering, as the Camino, is not really a competition...

 

[TerryB]

I have been reading this thread with interest and some concern. Having joined the Forum back in February 2008 and walked a "long" Camino in 2009, I would be the first to admit that things are different in 2013. However, as always there have been changes for the better and worse :?
There is always the temptation to say "When I were a lad . . . . ." and our rosy memories of the past may not be an accurate reflection of events!
I was wondering- did we actually need moderators in those days? I recall some very 'robust' discussions on 'religion', 'what is a real pilgrim?' etc. without descending into name calling and abuse. As has already been said, it may be a reflection of the outside world showing through on the Forum - Hopefully it will remain a place - "Where past pilgrims share and future pilgrims learn".

Having been on the Northern Caminos every year since 2009, yes there have been some changes.
There seem to be more 'long distance walkers' as here :-
http://christine-on-big-trip.blogspot.c ... -tips.html
Those that seem to be walking so that it can be "ticked off" on their list!
There is a more cautious attitude by our Spanish hosts (that is what they are!). Last year, for the first time, I was asked to pay 'up front' for our room in the hostal. Some had sneaked out of the side door in the early morning without paying! I stayed there in 2009 and the owner was only too pleased to see me. By 2012 he had a more jaundiced view of pilgrims, which made me sad!
So - yes there have been changes, but I need to recognise that I am 5 years older and perhaps more intolerant in MY views and MY rights (as a "customer"!!)
However, the Camino is still the Camino! It was there long before I discovered it and will be there long after I have gone. And where hearts and minds are open, it will continue to bless those who walk.

Annie, you and I go back a long way! It sounds as though you have bounced back somewhat, for that I give thanks. Take care how you go and "Noli illegitimi carborundum"

Blessings on your walking
Tio Tel

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I was first in a dormitory of eight beds in bunks with several other dorms still empty. I showered, did laundry, and laid some equipment on the top bunk.

Two other pilgrims arrived, and spread out over the other six beds. The single chair was in my domain, so I moved it to neutral territory, and cleared my top bunk in case more pilgrims arrived.

One did, and pilgrims two and three cleared a bottom bunk for pilgrim four, who took the chair for equipment storage.

We all had dinner on a demipension, which was unadvertised vegetation. The only protein was a bit of egg in the brown rice, which would have sent vegans running. Pilgrim four dominated the first food distribution, and got all the seconds because no one else wanted it. No offense to vegetarians, but your food is terrible!

Pilgrims two and three stuffed their pockets with everything from the table that did not move, mostly a lot of flies.

Pilgrim three moved to a closed dorm to sleep. The hosts probably did not clean it the next day, not knowing that it was used.

Breakfast was surprisingly extensive, though no one ate the cereal because there were no bowls and no cold milk. Several items were packaged pastries. Pilgrims two and three stuffed their packs with bread, butter, jam, and the packaged items. They had ordered, then cancelled, box lunches at dinner. Pilgrim four was a late riser, and probably thought breakfast was pretty slim since it already had disappeared into the packs of two and three.

Pilgrim four never objected to me removing the equipment from the chair, having slept through it. Using a bed for putting in boots does not work for anyone over 5'2", by the way, so I suggest that chairs are for sitting, not equipment, unless there is one chair per bed.

Is there anything in this anecdote that could irritate a pilgrim or host?

As to gender and nationality, I will say only that I am from the USA, male, and not from Philly. :twisted:

 

[LTfit]

Hope_ologist :

Wow, bad attitudes and behavior has no place on the Camino.

Nor anywhere else, full stop. But reality teaches us otherwise. The Camino, life and this forum are but a reflection of the society we live in today and we are all a part of it. And if we do not like it well, take action. We can only control our own behavior, attitude and how we react (or not) to others.

Hope_ologist:

The point is that unless anyone whining, complaining and acting out can top what I've been through and physically struggling to get from Sarria to Santiago, they would serve themselves better by not bringing that stuff around around us.

Not all handicaps are visible and some may choose not to share their internal "battles" with others. People deal with hardship in different ways. Maybe, just maybe that "whining, complaining and acting out" person is there for all of us to learn to be more compassionate.

I believe that Terry sums up my feelings precisely:

And where hearts and minds are open, it (the Camino) will continue to bless those who walk. .

 

[Phillypilgrim]

Yes, I get it, as I already posted. I do believe I am a little too sensitive, and promise to get that in check before my first steps September 1st. BTW, Philly rocks, check it out!

 

[lynettefoo]

When I was walking last year, I just told myself, if someone rubbed me up the wrong way, I would just walk away. That is what I did. I didnt put up with S*IT.

I also made it a point to stay in private accomodation so that I could choose who I wanted to mix with.

The Camino is not all about "we are all best friends and we all love each other so let's all be nice". Just bear in mind that it attracts many different types of people and you will meet both nice people who will become life long friends and people you want to run a mile from.

When I started walking from Leon, I had terrible blisters. I got absolutely no sympathy from these 2 ladies who had walked from SJPDP. They just said to my face "suck it up!". I didnt waste time being all sensitive and wonder why were they so mean to me. I just walked away and that was the best thing.

Remember, negativity always attracts negativity. The Camino will always bring you people who you want to meet. As Paulo Coelho says - "And, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it." So only think positive thoughts.

My walking partner dumped me in Rabanal after 4 days and I had done no planning because I was totally reliant on him. But I went on to walk the Camino by myself and made so many new friends. I proved to myself I was self reliant, strong and can overcome adversity.

So focus on the good stuff. Stop, listen and take it easy. Filter the bad stuff out. Go stay in a beautiful place and it will calm your mind.

Good Luck!

 

[newfydog]

I

Is there anything in this anecdote that could irritate a pilgrim or host?
:

Irritate? sure! Send you home? unlikely. A great description, falcon! Reminds me why we have migrated from the albergue world to the private accommodation/restaurant mode.
(I prefer the term refugio, we only go there now when we are refugees.)

Anyway, everyone heading out should read that, Then picture days when the other pilgrims are wonderful, days when they are awful. Then decide if this trip is for you, and how you want to do it.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I was first in a dormitory of eight beds in bunks with several other dorms still empty. I showered, did laundry, and laid some equipment on the top bunk.

Two other pilgrims arrived, and spread out over the other six beds. The single chair was in my domain, so I moved it to neutral territory, and cleared my top bunk in case more pilgrims arrived.

One did, and pilgrims two and three cleared a bottom bunk for pilgrim four, who took the chair for equipment storage.

We all had dinner on a demipension, which was unadvertised vegetation. The only protein was a bit of egg in the brown rice, which would have sent vegans running. Pilgrim four dominated the first food distribution, and got all the seconds because no one else wanted it. No offense to vegetarians, but your food is terrible!

Pilgrims two and three stuffed their pockets with everything from the table that did not move, mostly a lot of flies.

Pilgrim three moved to a closed dorm to sleep. The hosts probably did not clean it the next day, not knowing that it was used.

Breakfast was surprisingly extensive, though no one ate the cereal because there were no bowls and no cold milk. Several items were packaged pastries. Pilgrims two and three stuffed their packs with bread, butter, jam, and the packaged items. They had ordered, then cancelled, box lunches at dinner. Pilgrim four was a late riser, and probably thought breakfast was pretty slim since it already had disappeared into the packs of two and three.

Pilgrim four never objected to me removing the equipment from the chair, having slept through it. Using a bed for putting in boots does not work for anyone over 5'2", by the way, so I suggest that chairs are for sitting, not equipment, unless there is one chair per bed.

Is there anything in this anecdote that could irritate a pilgrim or host?

As to gender and nationality, I will say only that I am from the USA, male, and not from Philly. :twisted:

Ultreia E Sus Eia !!!

As a pilgrim friend of mine who has been involved with the Camino since 1965 translated this for me : "Go on, and get out of here !!!". (he may have used a less polite translation than I do)

 

[Dubbydub]

I'd say those who bother you with their antics, are probably JUST as bothered by you and YOUR antics that THEY don't like!

Such is life.

Seeing it from the other perspective might help.

But theft and general bad manners are a no no, it is not that hard to be polite and honest, whatever about attitude :wink:

 

[carriedavey]

We are unable to choose who walks the path with us. Our fellow walkers may not always be whom we would like to be walking with, this is not their responsibility or ours. The point is to make the Camino an experience that you will remember for good reasons. Our Camino completed in May of this year has many memorable moments, and many memorable and wonderful people for us to recall. We also encountered some of the worst aspects of human nature; thats life.
I will never do another Camino, but would never tell anyone else not to set off on the journey.
Someone far wiser than I put it this way: "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

 

[Doodles]

Is it just me?
Or is the Camino different this year?

People are not as kind. There are a lot of people acting more like tourists, complaining and even arguing with nuns about which bed they get. Stealing food. Stealing clothes and towels. I'm just getting more and more depressed.

Last night I had my stuff on a chair next to my bed. I came back from dinner to find it all dumped on the floor and another 'pilgrim' had their pack on the chair.

There was a fight in the albergue last night. People screamed at each other and it became physical.

People were overheard booking 2-3 places, saying they'd walk to wherever they could and wouldn't bother cancelling. They just wouldn't show up. No problem.

I put a nice piece of melon in the fridge for my breakfast and came back to find it smashed under bags of heavy wine and beer. When I was trying to rescue it, I got a stern lecture from some guy about how unenvironmentally aware I was being by holding the fridge door open. Sheesh !

I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.
I'm so depressed I wish I knew how to get an earlier flight home.

Is it me???

I agree with most of what you say. We just finished and probably will never do another. I think the problems will only get worse so I'm glad we did it when we did. As for our future hiking there are just too many other less spoiled places in the world to visit.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Where are the less spoiled places with albergue-like places every 5km and potable water everywhere? What shots and visas will I need?

 

[NoorvanderVeen]

Where are the less spoiled places with albergue-like places every 5km and potable water everywhere? What shots and visas will I need?

The all new cammino di Assisi and then on to Rome? :mrgreen:

(http://www.camminodiassisi.it/EN/index.html)

 

[newfydog]

We did the italian part of the Francigena last year, and had dinner with an Assisi group where the paths joined. It is an entirely different experience. Few businesses along the route know they even exist. I had to explain to one restaurant what the trail marker painted on their building was.

Very few facilities for pilgrims, but fine if you can afford hotels.

I think the closest you'll find to an unspoiled Frances is the Frances in the off season.

 

[mspath]

...
I think the closest you'll find to an unspoiled Frances is the Frances in the off season.

Indeed. The Camino Frances off season can be very special. It may be lonely, wet and cold, but off season there is often a strong sense of true grit amongst the few fellow pilgrims as well as prevailing caritas offered along the way. The welcome at those albergues which are open is most sincere.

Walking off season I have never worried about what I would find but only whether I were strong enough to endure. When dusk falls early a simple albergue shelter with preferably a bottom bunk, heat, working toilet, hot shower, and something to eat are simple bliss.

In January 2009 after walking up the Valcarlos road in 5 hours through strong wind, heavy rain, sleet and eventually heavy snow at Roncevalles I was the only pilgrim. The monk who stamped my Credential invited me to the evening benediction. As always the service was held in the ancient Romanesque church (wonderfully heated) in front of the magnificent silver sculpture of the Virgin. Three monks assisted and asked me to stand with them at the altar. ...In retrospect how special it was to be the single pilgrim that stormy night where crowds have stood throughout time.

Twice during winter caminos I have sat out true blizzards; in Villafranca Montes de Oca, February 25, 26, 2006 and Foncebadón, March 5,6, 2009. Even late November 2012 the climb up to O Cebriero was packed with snow. Luckily open albergues offered welcoming shelter, heat and companionship. What pleasure it is to share a steaming cup of hot tea; smiles returned by new friends are some of the Camino's many joys.

No Camino is easy but a daily juggle of the topography and the weather plus your health and pack weight as well as personal strength and ability to endure. Yet those who wish to return to Camino basics might consider walking off season.

Margaret Meredith

 

[inspiredjen]

Hold up, folks.

First of all, I give due respect to Annie and recognize the perspective that she brings.

I also want to say that I am one of the 2013 crew. Despite assertions that it's different this year, I met some of the most amazing people on my Camino (which ended 3 weeks ago) -- some of whom will be lifelong friends - who were selfless, spiritually aware, generous, helpful, funny, insightful, and kind. One woman had money stolen -- and several pilgrims gave her enough to get dinner and cover her albergue until she could get to an ATM. A German woman purchased all the ingredients, made us a sumptuous dinner, and would not accept money for it. I translated for an EMT when my Camino buddy got a fever and pneumonia because she did not speak Spanish. When a pilgrim got hypothermia, a group found her, shared their clothing, and walked with her all the way to Roncesvalles. When we sat awed by the sunset in Finisterra, a German guy we didn't know brought us two plastic cups with wine, just to share. All of these happened this year.

Entitlement and selfishness are everywhere, the world around. If you start looking for it, you will find it. In fact, you'll only notice more of it.

So whether you've just gone on the Camino, are currently walking, or are about to -- just hold on a moment -- and choose to look for the good. You're as likely to find it as the bad, so why not choose the better of the two? Here's the thing: when crappy people show up, they're messengers. They're here to tell us something. So listen -- and be curious about what they have to convey.

It's summer, it's busy, and yes, the Camino is changing, but it's still a really awesome journey.

 

[Jennifer Juniper]

Thank you for posting your refreshing point of view!All experience depends on how we choose to perceive it, and at the end of the day,that's what we need to remember-WE CHOOSE.

 

[colinPeter]

It's summer, it's busy, and yes, the Camino is changing, but it's still a really awesome journey.

Thanks for an "inspired" post.

Buen Camino
Colin

 

[createspace]

I returned from walking from SJPP to Santiago on July 5. This was my experience in the albergues: noise starts at 5:30 AM usually without regard to anyone who wanted to sleep later. The headlamps were on, talking, and banging their gear around. Many nights people had to "shush" people up who were talking at 11 PM, laughing without any regard to anyone trying to sleep. It was rare to have peace and quiet at 10 PM. There were many pilgrims talking on their phones as they walked. We let them pass by to regain our peace and quiet.One night after Sarria, boys were kicking a soccer ball down the hallways. Youth groups were the worst offenders of the lights out and quiet after 10:30 policies. I had to get up and admonish the Germans from Hamburg who had chaperones to be quiet. It didn't ruin my Camino but I wish their was more enforcement of the quiet after xyz policy. I think it's easy to get irritated because we are tired, out of our normal environment, not eating well, and not sleeping well.

 

[Doodles]

Where are the less spoiled places with albergue-like places every 5km and potable water everywhere? What shots and visas will I need?

We'll be thru-hiking the AT (Appalachian Trail) next. Plenty of shelters adequately spaced apart and although they may not be as plush as an albergue they are free as opposed to 5-6 Euro/night. Adequate water assuming you carry a filter, no shots, no visas.

 

[Doodles]

I returned from walking from SJPP to Santiago on July 5. This was my experience in the albergues: noise starts at 5:30 AM usually without regard to anyone who wanted to sleep later. The headlamps were on, talking, and banging their gear around. Many nights people had to "shush" people up who were talking at 11 PM, laughing without any regard to anyone trying to sleep. It was rare to have peace and quiet at 10 PM. There were many pilgrims talking on their phones as they walked. We let them pass by to regain our peace and quiet.One night after Sarria, boys were kicking a soccer ball down the hallways. Youth groups were the worst offenders of the lights out and quiet after 10:30 policies. I had to get up and admonish the Germans from Hamburg who had chaperones to be quiet. It didn't ruin my Camino but I wish their was more enforcement of the quiet after xyz policy. I think it's easy to get irritated because we are tired, out of our normal environment, not eating well, and not sleeping well.

We had similar experiences, mostly during the last third of the trip like from Leon to Santiago. The worst was from Sarria to Santiago. We met a German couple doing their fourth Camino who said from now on (they were planning more) they would stop at Sarria and just take a bus on the Santiago thereby avoiding the worst offenders.

 

[AJ]

Rather than being contemplative, spiritual, walking for the inner experience, a lot seemed to just be having a holiday, staying in hotels, using Wifi and tablets, catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc.

I have to humbly disagree with you. I don't think using wifi or a tablet makes you any less a pilgrim, nor does catching a bus or taxi. Nor does staying in a hotel. And some of the "tourigrinos" (which I regard as a pejorative term) become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation."

Bill

I agree with Bill. And I don´t use wifi or catch buses or taxis. The remark about tourigrinos gells with something an hospitalero told me on my first camino: how some ¨tourists¨ become pilgrims along the way.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I returned from walking from SJPP to Santiago on July 5. This was my experience in the albergues: noise starts at 5:30 AM usually without regard to anyone who wanted to sleep later.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

The headlamps were on, talking, and banging their gear around.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

Many nights people had to "shush" people up who were talking at 11 PM, laughing without any regard to anyone trying to sleep.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

It was rare to have peace and quiet at 10 PM.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

There were many pilgrims talking on their phones as they walked.

Normal. Was the same 10 years ago.

We let them pass by to regain our peace and quiet.

Ultrea e Sus Eia !!!!!

One night after Sarria, boys were kicking a soccer ball down the hallways.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

Youth groups were the worst offenders of the lights out and quiet after 10:30 policies.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

I had to get up and admonish the Germans from Hamburg who had chaperones to be quiet.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

It didn't ruin my Camino but I wish their was more enforcement of the quiet after xyz policy. I think it's easy to get irritated because we are tired, out of our normal environment, not eating well, and not sleeping well.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

-----

Buen Camino !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[alexwalker]

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

he, he. Agree. But earplugs and eyeblinds will help a long way!

The first days of my first Camino all these aspects irritated me, but luckily I entered Camino mode quickly. Live and let live. Also, the 5.30 noise isn't all that bad (And that coming from me: B-man all my life, who enjoys sleeping!): Getting up and away early, and finish before the heat becomes too hard is not that bad.

What WAS irritating on a few days of my VdlP was the old Scottish couple: He got up at 4.30-5.00 with lots of noise, headlight, full packet, was making lots of noises in the kitchen, then returned to the dorm at 5.00-5.30 and proclaimed in a loud and proud voice: "Tea is ready, dear!". Then she would get up equally noisy. And all the time they came back to get forgotten items for their morning preparations. At 7.30 when all others had left, they were still in the kitchen... They brought special food with them (lots of it...), so they needed obviously 2.5-4 hours for preparations each morning... :shock:

I coped with them for 2 nights; 3rd day I visited a bar after a couple of hours walk and watched (from inside) them walk by, then got me a bed for the night, and didn't see them again until Santiago... But he was spooky, that Scot: I was sitting in a cafe is SdC and who dumped down at the next table? The Scots... I left and went to the bus station in order to buy a ticket to Burgos: Went to the restroom for a leak: Who stood behind me in the line? The Scot. I got a creepy feeling, but luckily, they were not on my bus...

Ahhh: Forgot: They were also on the same bus as me to Finisterre, arguing loudly with each other: When in Finisterre they continued their arguments on the bus stop... :shock:

From other pilgrims I later learned that they had become famous on VdlP as "The pilgrims from Hell" ;-)

Edit: I should also mention the young "lady" next to my bunk in Pamplona who obviously thought that the quiet of the night was ideal for texting and talking to friends from 2.30 to 4.30 AM...

Buen Camino!

 

[lettinggo]

Hola

Thank you JabbaPapa for your post.
This thread has been all over for some time and it was insightful to read your comment.
The Camino is what we, ourselves, makes it to, as it was for the pilgrims before us.
Maybe as well in the future..

noise starts at 5:30 AM usually without regard to anyone who wanted to sleep later.

Normal. Was the same 20 years ago.

Normal. Will be the same in 20 years.


Profound words from alexwalker, live and let live.
Life is all that matters.

Buen Camino
Lettinggo

 

[alexwalker]

My lesson learned: Avoid the bad. Join the good.

 

[ajp]

I am planning my second Camino starting SJPP in second week of September, and frankly have been thinking in terms of many things being the same as when I first walked it in fall of 2009.
This thread has been somewhat disturbing to me, because in 2009 I experienced nothing but friendliness and good feelings from the pilgrims I met. There were a few exceptions, but that is to be expected in any interaction with groups of people. I am therefore feeling a bit of trepidation about the coming walk, and really hoping there has not been any fundamental change in the Camino spirit, which was so evident in the many pilgrims I interacted with in 2009.

 

[Thengel1]

I am planning my second Camino starting SJPP in second week of September, and frankly have been thinking in terms of many things being the same as when I first walked it in fall of 2009.
This thread has been somewhat disturbing to me, because in 2009 I experienced nothing but friendliness and good feelings from the pilgrims I met. There were a few exceptions, but that is to be expected in any interaction with groups of people. I am therefore feeling a bit of trepidation about the coming walk, and really hoping there has not been any fundamental change in the Camino spirit, which was so evident in the many pilgrims I interacted with in 2009.

I can't comment on other people's experiences. I wasn't there, how would I know what it was like for them.

But, what it is worth, I finished walking the camino less than 2.5 months ago, and my interactions with people were almost uniformly positive.

I stayed in albergues most nights and had very little problems with the wide variety of people I encountered in them. Maybe sometimes people could have been a little quieter in the morning, maybe. But, you stay in a shared sleeping quarters, you have to expect a certain amount of noise in the morning and I did not have a single experience where I thought people crossed a line into unreasonable behaviour.

I am an introvert and was travelling by myself, and I one of my fears before I started was that I would feel very isolated walking the camino. I can't say that I never felt isolated while on it, and due to my slow walking speed, usually walked alone, but I had dozens upon dozens of conversations with people who were friendly and supportive.

I would love to be able to do it again (however unlikely that seems at this moment)

Glen