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It crossed my mind more than once when I watched this same storm from safely inside an albergue in September. Not my video - on a Navarra news website.In all my 4 caminos I've never once thought about the chances of getting hit by lightning.
I experienced a storm with my daughters on the Salvador with lighting all around and the rain pelting down. We were in the middle of a meadow and applied what I had learned from a discussion on French tv after there had been a terrible accident in a Paris park - the children and parents of a birthday party had taken shelter under a tree and were struck by lightning. We were told to crouch down into a “boule” at a few metres distance from each other. My problem was afterwards, trying to “unboule” myself without taking my pack off my back in the pouring rain!Probably crouch down and become as low as I could.
I'm envisioning this comical sounding scenario, but at least a good thing you were not on your back.We were told to crouch down into a “boule” at a few metres distance from each other. My problem was afterwards, trying to “unboule” myself without taking my pack off my back in the pouring rain!
Very similar principle to the brace position in an airplane. The first step in kissing your backside goodbye....“If caught in open country in a thunderstorm crouch down with your head between your knees”
Having left very early, I was right n the middle of that Sept 2nd storm up in the hills and it was very scary - so much water and rushing "rivers" with no place to shelter. There was no choice but to keep moving.On September 2nd there was a terrific thunderstorm on the eastern side of the Camino Frances. A topic of conversation along the Way thereafter, exchanging experiences. I had spent the night in Navarrete and was slightly later leaving than usual. So when the storm began I was still within the village. I tucked under an eave with my back to the hail and rain. The thunder and lightning rolled around and it was very scary. I decided to make my way back to a cafe but the rain pouring down the streets formed a torrent and on reaching a deeper eave I just tucked in again and counted the seconds between the thunder and lightning. I had on an Altus poncho which kept me dry. Just my feet and lower legs were soaked. Once the lightning was more than 5 miles away and didn't seem to be coming back I set off. The path was very muddy with a lot of flooded and washed out sections. The rain continued for most of the day but the lightning did not come back. Most of the people we met later had taken buses or taxis. Some pilgrims caught out near a road ha been given lifts by locals. Quite a few had been taken into Spanish homes to shelter. I'm not sure what I would have been done if caught further down the path. Probably crouch down and become as low as I could. A pilgrim told me he had thrown his sticks away and laid flat on the ground. In fact the lightning I observed was mostly horizontal, between the clouds. But not all! Some days later I was shown a video of some Korean Pilgrims trying to wade through a stream of very fast flowing muddy flood water. They said that one young woman had fallen over doing this and her pack meant she couldn't turn over and she was face down. Fortunately a quick thinking pilgrim saw and grabbed her and helped her become upright.
The biggest problem, I think, is that we are so programmed to keep walking forwards on the Camino. I always started early. In retrospect I could easily have stayed in a cafe for an hour or two. I'd seen a forecast but thought the lightning could miss my path. Walking in the rain is something I accept on the Camino. Thunder storms need serious attention.
That is when a wooden staff would be the better option if caught in a Camino storm...no need to pass it on to someone, or toss it aside.Lightning risk on a Camino has never crossed my mind until now.
I’d probably adapt advice I was given when climbing in the alps -‘give your ice axe to a friend’
What is the difference, could have not happen walking in your own yard. I would say don't stand under a tree.Much has been spoken in Camino forums about how and what to pack for rain on the Camino. But I don’t see much sharing on protecting oneself against lightning.
What do pilgrims do when they chance into an electrical storm with bolts of lightning crashing to the ground, especially when they’re already far out in open country with no shelter in sight?
Unlike rain, lightning kills and is not to be taken lightly (no pun intended).
This scenario was played out in the book I’m reading at the moment titled, To The Field Of Stars, by priest pilgrim Kevin A. Codd, where he describes a storm he encountered between Astorga and Rabanal during his own pilgrimage back in August 2003.
In his account, he admits being terrified at the thought of being roasted by the lightning and began praying to Saint James, who apparently was known in the Gospel as one of the “Sons of Thunder”.
He writes:
“I don’t suppose many will believe this, but it is the absolute, factual, meteorological truth: at this very moment, the massive storm begins ever so slowly to divide into two cells one drifting to the south, and the other sliding ever so slowly away to the north … I am still being rained upon, but the sky directly above me is no longer the ash-gray of death. There is lightning to the north and lightning to the south, but I and the others are walking between those strikes, far from dry shod, but we are safely walking between those strikes”.
Well, I suppose prayers, faith and miracles can indeed keep one safe, but I’d just like to hear the experiences of those who have walked through an electrical storm such as this with bolts landing in their midst. What did you do to keep safe, if at all?
unfortunately a friend of mine was involved in rescuing a couple of guys caught in mountains by lightening. No marks on poles and ice axes - simply up through one foot and exit through the head. Utterly fried internally and very dead. Not to be toyed with.That is when a wooden staff would be the better option if caught in a Camino storm...no need to pass it on to someone, or toss it aside.
Btw, in spite of the jokes, I think this is a very good thread the OP started and I have learned a few safety tips I didn't know before.
The pilgrims' office in SJPdP said there was a risk of lightning on the day we started. We took the Valcarlos route that day.Lightning risk on a Camino has never crossed my mind until now.
It seems to me that this imagining of what Kevin Codd was describing might not be quite as the events actually occurred. I don't imagine that these were lightning strikes that were hitting the ground metres away, or even perhaps 10s or 100s of metres from him. But then, I wasn't there, and what I might imagine were storm cells moving a kilometre or two to the north or south might have been much closer.Well, I suppose prayers, faith and miracles can indeed keep one safe, but I’d just like to hear the experiences of those who have walked through an electrical storm such as this with bolts landing in their midst. What did you do to keep safe, if at all?
Don't lay flat on the ground.If on the Camino and unable to shelter quickly, get as low as possible. That means laying flat on the ground, if needed, like on the Meseta
Thanks Doug, this saved me some writing. I wanted to point out the keeping your knees together during your squat is a help too. You want to prevent the easiest path for a current to be through your organs, most importantly through your brain and heart. So be careful double poling and wearing aluminum foil hats.ps standing with your feet together is important. If your feet are even a short distance apart, the electrical ground current close to the strike will be quite high, and result in a significant voltage difference in even a short distance. This will be enough to make your feet, legs and torso an alternative path for that current if your feet are apart, with the result that someone with their feet apart could suffer severe electrical burns from the current that passes through their body.
From CDC via @trecile: If you are in a group during a thunderstorm, separate from each other. This will reduce the number of injuries if lightning strikes the ground.
Thx. I have edited my earlier comments to reflect keeping your knees together as well as your feet.Thanks Doug, this saved me some writing. I wanted to point out the keeping your knees together during your squat is a help too. You want to prevent the easiest path for a current to be through your organs, most importantly through your brain and heart. So be careful double poling and wearing aluminum foil hats.
And someone may be able to do first aid on the rest.
From my 1st Camino to my 4th and not last I have used a Lightning App which warns me if Lightning is a possibility at anytime walking .Much has been spoken in Camino forums about how and what to pack for rain on the Camino. But I don’t see much sharing on protecting oneself against lightning.
What do pilgrims do when they chance into an electrical storm with bolts of lightning crashing to the ground, especially when they’re already far out in open country with no shelter in sight?
Unlike rain, lightning kills and is not to be taken lightly (no pun intended).
This scenario was played out in the book I’m reading at the moment titled, To The Field Of Stars, by priest pilgrim Kevin A. Codd, where he describes a storm he encountered between Astorga and Rabanal during his own pilgrimage back in August 2003.
In his account, he admits being terrified at the thought of being roasted by the lightning and began praying to Saint James, who apparently was known in the Gospel as one of the “Sons of Thunder”.
He writes:
“I don’t suppose many will believe this, but it is the absolute, factual, meteorological truth: at this very moment, the massive storm begins ever so slowly to divide into two cells one drifting to the south, and the other sliding ever so slowly away to the north … I am still being rained upon, but the sky directly above me is no longer the ash-gray of death. There is lightning to the north and lightning to the south, but I and the others are walking between those strikes, far from dry shod, but we are safely walking between those strikes”.
Well, I suppose prayers, faith and miracles can indeed keep one safe, but I’d just like to hear the experiences of those who have walked through an electrical storm such as this with bolts landing in their midst. What did you do to keep safe, if at all?
During this age, the risk to be crushed by a mammoth was even greater, I guess ? ;-)All this said, I have been on the camino scene since the Stone Age
Who would wear such a hat?Thanks Doug, this saved me some writing. I wanted to point out the keeping your knees together during your squat is a help too. You want to prevent the easiest path for a current to be through your organs, most importantly through your brain and heart. So be careful double poling and wearing aluminum foil hats.
And someone may be able to do first aid on the rest.
Who would wear such a hat?I used to know how to fold newspapers to make a sailor's hat, but...
Thank you, every day is a school day.Everything You Need to Know About Aluminum Foil Hats - Aluminum Profile Blog
Learn about the history of aluminum foil hats, how they are used in pop culture, and everything you need to know about protecting yourself from EMF radiation with an aluminum foil hat. Get a comprehensive guide to making your own aluminum foil hat.www.museoinclusivo.com
That’s interesting… an app dedicated to lightning? Which one in particular? Do you find it any help?I have used a Lightning App which warns me if Lightning is a possibility at anytime walking
Possibly he took an early retirement.…and survived I think!?
He did, and died aged 71…and survived I think!?
???Only a foolhardy (AKA stupid) pilgrim deliberately walks in a thunderstorm with lightning strikes occurring in the vicinity. A pilgrim that wants to join the Darwin club.
Heard the crack, turned around to see sparks in the wind from 2 poles away...didnt unpucker all dayWhether you believe this or not, I don't care.
My own lightning strike story is from my first mostly failed but nevertheless completed Camino in 1993.
Three of us from Paris started at Logroño, then were joined by one from Normandy, and one he fell in love with a lovely peregrina from Germany.
Prior to starting ; one of my friends from Paris, and the one who got me interested in all of this in the first place, proposed a pact whereby we should encourage each other in case of discouragement. So, of course, we had our discouragement on the exact same day, between Astorga and Rabanal.
And instead of continuing (though I did end up finishing after a pause on that 1993, and she ended up walking from Le Puy to Santiago a couple of years later), we resolved to hitch-hike back to France.
In the exact instant when I dropped my pack on the ground, lightning struck the nearest telephone pole, about 10 metres away.
We thought -- well, that's weird, resolved to carry on : then a second lightning strike occurred onto the exact same pole.
Easy. They prayedCant help but imagine what pilgrims did in the ages past...
Well go have fun in a lightning storm, then. Personally for me walking the Camino isn't an activity worth risking getting zapped by a million volts over. I don't see that as being a hardship to endure to be a true pilgrim???
If you're in woods, or a Western European rural area with many trees and farm buildings and whatnot, the risk to you is pretty much nil.
Out in the wide open meseta in Spain, sure be more careful, but then I have not ever once seen such lightning storm conditions there ; and not all of the meseta is so wide open.
Lightning fatality stats per annum in Spain, France and Portugal are around 0.1 to 0.2 per million population. That's one fatality per 5 to 10 million people living there. The risk during a typical Camino of a few weeks is microscopically tiny.
Assuming an "average" 4-week Camino, that's about a 0.01% risk per million pilgrims, or a median risk of death to every 10 billionth pilgrim.
Not something that I would rely on when I've been given a brain to make decisions to keep me safe.Do not forget that James, together with his brother John are called "sons of thunder" ((Mk 3,17): therefore probably James can protect his pilgrims against lightning...
A strange comment.Well go have fun in a lightning storm, then. Personally for me walking the Camino isn't an activity worth risking getting zapped by a million volts over. I don't see that as being a hardship to endure to be a true pilgrim.
I certainly wouldn't have sought shelter among trees or next to even a small body of water. Finding the lowest point in the open, and then taking the other precautions already discussed would be my preference were I to face a similar set of circumstances.Several years ago on the Via Francigena, was caught in a sudden lightening storm unlike anything I had ever seen…and I grew up in Land of Lightening Storms, Florida. Like much of the VF, it was in the middle of nowhere, with no shelter. We were on a big open agricultural field when it started, and as strike after strike hit all around, we ran across the field to a wooded area and crouched down in a small gully that was filled with runoff water. All was well but it led to a discussion that night of what to do in lightening storms. I still don’t know the answer but instinct says to get out of the open but likely not to crouch in water gullies. Thoughts, anyone?
I fully appreciate where you’re coming from but please remember that same brain is perfectly capable of deciding that you should try Heroin; that getting a lift home from the pub with the guy whose had a skin-full is perfectly safe. That dumping your friends for that smiley girl in the disco is ok because “that” only happens to the careless.Not something that I would rely on when I've been given a brain to make decisions to keep me safe.
That's pretty much everything acording to Murphy's Law, "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong (and at the worst possible time)."If you want a real risk to health and sanctity on Camino try focusing really hard on what could really go wrong….
You weren't hit by lightning either! QED times 2!I had never previously seen a Pine Martin. I never did see a European Brown Bear in the Cordillera Cantabrica but I did see the Pine Martin.
Quod erat demonstrandum
Lying down on the ground is not recommended. If the frequency is such that you must take immediate action, backpackers and hikers are advised to get into a crouched position and to stay several feet away from other people. The CDC adds this:On September 2nd there was a terrific thunderstorm on the eastern side of the Camino Frances. A topic of conversation along the Way thereafter, exchanging experiences. I had spent the night in Navarrete and was slightly later leaving than usual. So when the storm began I was still within the village. I tucked under an eave with my back to the hail and rain. The thunder and lightning rolled around and it was very scary. I decided to make my way back to a cafe but the rain pouring down the streets formed a torrent and on reaching a deeper eave I just tucked in again and counted the seconds between the thunder and lightning. I had on an Altus poncho which kept me dry. Just my feet and lower legs were soaked. Once the lightning was more than 5 miles away and didn't seem to be coming back I set off. The path was very muddy with a lot of flooded and washed out sections. The rain continued for most of the day but the lightning did not come back. Most of the people we met later had taken buses or taxis. Some pilgrims caught out near a road ha been given lifts by locals. Quite a few had been taken into Spanish homes to shelter. I'm not sure what I would have been done if caught further down the path. Probably crouch down and become as low as I could. A pilgrim told me he had thrown his sticks away and laid flat on the ground. In fact the lightning I observed was mostly horizontal, between the clouds. But not all! Some days later I was shown a video of some Korean Pilgrims trying to wade through a stream of very fast flowing muddy flood water. They said that one young woman had fallen over doing this and her pack meant she couldn't turn over and she was face down. Fortunately a quick thinking pilgrim saw and grabbed her and helped her become upright.
The biggest problem, I think, is that we are so programmed to keep walking forwards on the Camino. I always started early. In retrospect I could easily have stayed in a cafe for an hour or two. I'd seen a forecast but thought the lightning could miss my path. Walking in the rain is something I accept on the Camino. Thunder storms need serious attention.
Science says Mammoths came to Spain from France, via the Basque Country... they took the Camino del Norte! https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-mammoths-in-spain-lived-mainly-on-the-plainsDuring this age, the risk to be crushed by a mammoth was even greater, I guess ? ;-)
Hopefully, that one never happens again. Hair raising experience, to say the least.I certainly wouldn't have sought shelter among trees or next to even a small body of water. Finding the lowest point in the open, and then taking the other precautions already discussed would be my preference were I to face a similar set of circumstances.
I am curious. Does anyone know why it is advisable to avoid rocky overhangs for shelter or inside caves, as was mentioned in another post in this thread?Lying down on the ground is not recommended. If the frequency is such that you must take immediate action, backpackers and hikers are advised to get into a crouched position and to stay several feet away from other people. The CDC adds this:
- Seek shelter immediately, even if caught out in the open.
If you are caught in an open area, act quickly to find shelter. The most important action is to remove yourself from danger. Crouching or getting low to the ground can reduce your chances of being struck, but it does not remove you from danger.- If you are caught outside with no safe shelter nearby, the following actions might reduce your risk of being struck by lightning:
- Immediately get off elevated areas such as hills, mountain ridges, or peaks.
- Never lie flat on the ground. Crouch down in a ball-like position with your head tucked and hands over your ears so that you are down low with minimal contact with the ground.
- Never shelter under an isolated tree. If you are in a forest, shelter near lower trees.
- Never use a cliff or rocky overhang for shelter.
- Immediately get out of and away from ponds, lakes, and other bodies of water.
- Stay away from objects that conduct electricity (such as barbed wire fences, power lines, or windmills).
Just a guess but maybe a lightning strike might precipitate a rockfall?I am curious. Does anyone know why it is advisable to avoid rocky overhangs for shelter or inside caves, as was mentioned in another post in this thread?
Just a guess but maybe a lightning strike might precipitate a rockfall?
Exactly. And being in a cave it might be awhile before anyone finds your body. No problem for you but that could upset your family.The danger, as far as I know, is not primarily rockfall. But the lightning wants to take the easiest way vertically down, and a person is apparently a better path than rock. So, the electricity will jump from the top of the cave into the person's head, through the body, and then through the feet into the ground to continue its path.
A scavengers dream - fresh food delivered to the doorstep. What a wonderful way to complete the circle of Life!Exactly. And being in a cave it might be awhile before anyone finds your body. No problem for you but that could upset your family.
I understand that the advice is to avoid any such space, including, for example, an shed or garage with an open front.I am curious. Does anyone know why it is advisable to avoid rocky overhangs for shelter or inside caves, as was mentioned in another post in this thread?
Interesting. The advice from the CDC says no rocky overhangs but doesn't mention caves, sheds or garages. It does, however, start with the bolded advice to seek shelter immediately. I can easily imagine folks not aware of the intricacies seeking shelter in a cave, garage, or shed if that were what was encountered first.I understand that the advice is to avoid any such space, including, for example, an shed or garage with an open front.
Several years ago a friend and I were caught in a lightning storm while wade fishing in a bay. It came in fast. No place to go. We got up on the marsh grass ditched the fishing poles and lay down prone in the grass in our neoprene waders about 50 meters apart and rode it out, the bolts cracking overhead and hitting who knows where as we didn't dare look up. It was scary as hell. Lasted probably half an hour as the storm blew past. As soon as it was gone the blue skies came back and we resumed fishing. I know they recommend that one sits in a crouch with only the balls of their feet making contact, but it was marsh grass and mud and to be quite honest making as low a profile as possible was instinctual.Interesting. The advice from the CDC says no rocky overhangs but doesn't mention caves, sheds or garages. It does, however, start with the bolded advice to seek shelter immediately. I can easily imagine folks not aware of the intricacies seeking shelter in a cave, garage, or shed if that were what was encountered first.
I wasn't saying a shed was a good idea. Just that when we are in a storm and told to "seek shelter" I think most of us lay people would think it more of a shelter than crouching in the rain. We would be wrong, but without the guidance that tells us otherwise (which the CDC advice quoted didn't provide) we wouldn't know that we were wrong.A shed is a very bad idea, unless it is closed on all sides and has plumbing/electricity/lightning rod (garage with closed doors would be different than an open wooden shed for example, and more like a house).
I mean, a shed does help to get out of the rain, so if your concern is mainly hypothermia because of inadequate clothing, then it's at least something, but you're NOT safe from lightning.
In Germany, about ten years ago, four women died from lightning in an open wooden shed during a storm. They had been golfing and had sheltered together in the shed:
Blitz auf Golfplatz in Waldeck: Vierte Frau stirbt
Es war ein dramatisches Unglück auf einem Golfplatz in Nordhessen: Nach einem Blitzeinschlag waren drei Frauen sofort tot, eine vierte Spielerin konnte zunächst wiederbelebt werden. Nun ist sie in einer Klinik gestorben.www.spiegel.de
Three of them died instantly and one a few days later.
Such simple shelters are not really different from standing directly under a tree.
The only really safe places are inside a closed building (house with plumbing/electricity or best a lightning rod, or inside a closed metallic vehicle like a car (Faraday cage).
The full CDC advice on this can be found here: https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/lightning/safetytips.html. It is quite clear that you shouldn't shelter in open structures.I wasn't saying a shed was a good idea. Just that when we are in a storm and told to "seek shelter" I think most of us lay people would think it more of a shelter than crouching in the rain. We would be wrong, but without the guidance that tells us otherwise (which the CDC advice quoted didn't provide) we wouldn't know that we were wrong.
I wasn't saying a shed was a good idea. Just that when we are in a storm and told to "seek shelter" I think most of us lay people would think it more of a shelter than crouching in the rain. We would be wrong, but without the guidance that tells us otherwise (which the CDC advice quoted didn't provide) we wouldn't know that we were wrong.
They probably looked the other way thinking you were doing something else.I felt like a complete idiot crouching all alone in a bush, even though it was what is recommended! The other pilgrims probably thought I must have lost my mind!
In a past life, I was a telecommunications technician. We were always careful to install a lightning protector on twisted pair cables where they entered a building. My memory is vague on the specification, but they significantly reduced the voltage in the case of a lightning strike. You would still have got a shock, which it appears you did, but not the full force of the unattenuated lightning strike taking a shortcut to the handset and through your body.Can one be struck by secondhand lightning? If so, then I was. Summer 67, I was a seasonal Ranger at Montezuma’s Well Nat. Monument.
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