SacredSteps
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2021
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I’m a bit of an old traditionalist myself Mike - and I’ve learned not to treat a village-to-village walk through Spain’s modern infrastructure as a wilderness expeditionSo complicated. I wear inexpensive tee shirts and a fleece. Normally, have a cotton sweat short in my pack with my waterproofs.
Don't understand complicationSo complicated. I wear inexpensive tee shirts and a fleece. Normally, have a cotton sweat short in my pack with my waterproofs.
Full kit is over at my blog. I thought it best not to link a bunch of items so that the post wasnt deemed commercial. I got into headaches once for too many links to on a kit post with amazon, decathlo, and rei, etc.I suspect that the issue of "complication" comes partly from the fact that it is difficult to extract the guiding principles from your specific brand name recommendations. To understand better, we would have to search each of those specific brands/models and figure out what features they have and how they can be mixed and matched, or how other items could be substituted.
I see no base layer bottom, or references to hat, gloves, buff, etc., which can be important in enhancing what minimalistic other layers you might choose.
Don't understand complicationI use practically the same system I was 65 in 2003 when I first got involved and am ex forces, as well as mountain rescue. I have a lung condition on top of all my other impediments and know the value of good gear. I stay away from cotton. now 83 in July and haven't found much reason for changing my approach. I do change brands however and keep an eye on the forum for threads like this. I wish you well and buen camino,
Samarkand.
I understand, and you were prudent. I was just thinking that the list of products without discussion of the layering concept mentioned in the title became, well, just a list of branded products!Full kit is over at my blog. I thought it best not to link a bunch of items so that the post wasnt deemed commercial.
Enjoy the California Mission Trail. I live at the southern end of it and have walked parts of it up from San Diego - not the whole way in one go. Lots of pavement and busy streets and next month could be quite warm.I know layering comes up *a lot* but with advances in textiles and new products coming to market every year, I've spent more time than I would care to admit re-working my layers for both pilgrimage and my non-supported walks on the Appalachian and Florida Trails. I'm headed to the California Missions Trail next month and wanted to share an OVERSIMPLIFIED VERSION of my three-season layers.
BASE LAYER
150wt Merino Wool Short Sleeve (Woolly), or
150wt Merino Wool polo (Woolx, Smartwool, Minus33, Woolly)
MID LAYER
170wt Merino Long Sleeve 1/2 zip (REI, Smartwool, etc), or
Lightweight Grid Fleece (Patagonia R1, Arcteryx Delta, etc), or
35+cfm Wind Layer (Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell, Patagonia Airshed)
*The Kor Preshell and Airshed both have DWR treatments, so they resist some light rain
RAIN/WIND *might be an addition to or replace a midlayer
Montbell Peak Dry, or
Montbell Versalite (with pit zips), or
Outdoor Research Helium HD (with pit zips)
*While the Peak Dry does not have mechanical venting, it is BY FAR the most breathable at 80Kcfm
OUTER/THERMAL
North Face Thermoball Vest, or
Patagonia Down Sweater Vest
MOST FLEXIBLE COMBINATION
Woolx Short Sleeve Polo,
Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece,
Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell
I've found the 150wt merino with the Kor Preshell keeps me warm/cool/dry from approximately 10-22C/50-72F without having to stop to remove layers. The Preshell does well in most light rain; however the Peak Dry is the ultimate "walk all day in the rain without getting wet" piece. It's pricey but exceptionally good. If it's colder, I'll add the Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece over the merino / under the Preshell. Using this system, I've gotten down to just two shirts, and the two mid layers for most walks. I've put some pictures on my blog and some links to different options, but I hope this short overview helps you.
I appreciate the time that you spent doing this research for yourself. The was checking the prices of everything you have suggested and taking one from columns A-E cost more than all my gear that I spent on my first Camino. I have walked 5 Caminos and about 5,000K and still have most of the gear that I used on my first one. Still use the same backpack that cost me about $85 at REI. I have no idea what a similar pack to that one may be now. Altus rain poncho that is now about $35. I have new trail runners now that cost me 120. I buy closeout quick dry shirts for about 25 each. Have been wearing the same two for the last 3 casinos. On my second set of two quick dry shorts about 35 for the set. 3 pairs of socks that I bought new that were about 35. Last camino bought 2 pair of mid weight REI socks $40. Down Hoodie REI $80. One midlevel base long sleeve REI quick dry wicker, $40. At a garage sale I got a pullover quick dry long sleeve and quick dry long johns from Under Armour that were both new, still with the tags on them for $12. Hopefully for my next camino starting in Seville I only bought new trail runners that I referenced above for $100. They are Brooks Cascadias and are last years, model. Have always worn the Cascadias and they are great. This is not a criticism but an alternative for people who are on much tighter budgets. If you start early and go to all the closeout stuff from lots of good manufacturers you can do great. Oh yea, when I did my winter Camino I traded my a great sleeping bag that is way to heavy and big for the camino for a sleeping bag that was really small and was rated to 40 Farinheit. I was never cold. Some nights I slept in my base layer. I forgot I also bought a sleep sack on my first camino. It was about $50 on sale and I still use it.I know layering comes up *a lot* but with advances in textiles and new products coming to market every year, I've spent more time than I would care to admit re-working my layers for both pilgrimage and my non-supported walks on the Appalachian and Florida Trails. I'm headed to the California Missions Trail next month and wanted to share an OVERSIMPLIFIED VERSION of my three-season layers.
BASE LAYER
150wt Merino Wool Short Sleeve (Woolly), or
150wt Merino Wool polo (Woolx, Smartwool, Minus33, Woolly)
MID LAYER
170wt Merino Long Sleeve 1/2 zip (REI, Smartwool, etc), or
Lightweight Grid Fleece (Patagonia R1, Arcteryx Delta, etc), or
35+cfm Wind Layer (Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell, Patagonia Airshed)
*The Kor Preshell and Airshed both have DWR treatments, so they resist some light rain
RAIN/WIND *might be an addition to or replace a midlayer
Montbell Peak Dry, or
Montbell Versalite (with pit zips), or
Outdoor Research Helium HD (with pit zips)
*While the Peak Dry does not have mechanical venting, it is BY FAR the most breathable at 80Kcfm
OUTER/THERMAL
North Face Thermoball Vest, or
Patagonia Down Sweater Vest
MOST FLEXIBLE COMBINATION
Woolx Short Sleeve Polo,
Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece,
Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell
I've found the 150wt merino with the Kor Preshell keeps me warm/cool/dry from approximately 10-22C/50-72F without having to stop to remove layers. The Preshell does well in most light rain; however the Peak Dry is the ultimate "walk all day in the rain without getting wet" piece. It's pricey but exceptionally good. If it's colder, I'll add the Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece over the merino / under the Preshell. Using this system, I've gotten down to just two shirts, and the two mid layers for most walks. I've put some pictures on my blog and some links to different options, but I hope this short overview helps you.
With food and water I am at about 8.5 but I attribute some of that to the fact that I walk later in the year. If Spain opens and I can do the Via De La Plata I will not get to Santiago until about December 10. If it is still closed I will be looking at a mid February 2022 start. I am still thinking about my gear and I think I may take less then I have planned. When are you walking? I think 8.5 is definitely not a problem but less is a whole lot more when you have a 1,000K in front of you.No offense taken, @lt56ny.
My goal is to walk with two shirts and two layering pieces for all three-season weather. Lightweight gear is more expensive; no way around that if it's your aim. Sales, clearance, closeouts, and used gear are worth finding.
My last pack weight for the Camino was 8#. With these changes on the same pack, I've dropped 2#. (Of course, I gained the Covid 19 pounds, so there's that!)
I'll be walking the California Missions Trail in April 2021 and then - with a little luck - walking in the UK in the late summer: Way of St. Cuthbert, Pilgrims Way from London to Canterbury, and then beginning the Via Francigena from Canterbury into Europe towards Rome. In 2022, I'd like to walk a Camino loop from Santiago/Muxia/Finisterre/Santiago Holy Door and if possible walk in the Holy Land - perhaps Jordan to Jerusalem or the shorter Jesus Trail. It would be a dream to arrive in Jerusalem, Santiago and Rome all in the same year. I still would like to walk the Shikiko Temples in 2023 and back to the Camino Frances in 2023. Buen Camino!With food and water I am at about 8.5 but I attribute some of that to the fact that I walk later in the year. If Spain opens and I can do the Via De La Plata I will not get to Santiago until about December 10. If it is still closed I will be looking at a mid February 2022 start. I am still thinking about my gear and I think I may take less then I have planned. When are you walking? I think 8.5 is definitely not a problem but less is a whole lot more when you have a 1,000K in front of you.
Enjoy the California Mission Trail. I live at the southern end of it and have walked parts of it up from San Diego - not the whole way in one go. Lots of pavement and busy streets and next month could be quite warm.
Discussing outdoor clothing with my brother, I once remarked that "polyester is the walker's friend." He thought about it for a moment and replied "he's probably the only friend it's got."
I certainly agree with the first half of your sentence, and I'm pretty certain no one would stand next to me in a bus queue after a day's walk, but I find that washing my polyester garments (underwear, polyester/cotton shirt) in travel laundry soap followed by a good blast of the hottest water the shower can provide usually renders them acceptable. And, when I get the opportunity, a proper wash in a machine restores them to pristine condition.But man, polyester picks up stink quickly, and once it grabs it, never lets go.
I certainly agree with the first half of your sentence, and I'm pretty certain no one would stand next to me in a bus queue after a day's walk, but I find that washing my polyester garments (underwear, polyester/cotton shirt) in travel laundry soap followed by a good blast of the hottest water the shower can provide usually renders them acceptable. And, when I get the opportunity, a proper wash in a machine restores them to pristine condition.
I know what you mean. My wife can smell the future.apparent evolutionary bonus for females to have far more sensitive olfactory sense
To my occasional regret my wife can smell the recent past with uncanny precision.I know what you mean. My wife can smell the future.
Well said! Just keep it simple.So complicated. I wear inexpensive tee shirts and a fleece. Normally, have a cotton sweat short in my pack with my waterproofs.
I have been amazed, but Oxyclean Odor Blasters has alleviated that problem for me. I won't buy polyester again, but until it shreds off my body, this works for me.Before merino was being spun into lightweight layering options, maybe. But man, polyester picks up stink quickly, and once it grabs it, never lets go.
Maybe that’s why the Persil detergent that is so overpowering is so ubiquitous in the preloaded machines on the way, but that stuff burns my nostrils and my skin. I have to use UN scented things myself (and use soap nuts/ soap berries because they are frangrance free and extremely light to carry).
But I fear that if I were to wear polyester base layers I’d quickly find myself unbearable after about 5 days in a row of 1 or 2 shirts in rotation on 25-30k days in those stinking hot temperatures....
Thanks very much for the information. This is very helpful.I know layering comes up *a lot* but with advances in textiles and new products coming to market every year, I've spent more time than I would care to admit re-working my layers for both pilgrimage and my non-supported walks on the Appalachian and Florida Trails. I'm headed to the California Missions Trail next month and wanted to share an OVERSIMPLIFIED VERSION of my three-season layers.
A good layering system consists of base layers for moisture management and moving sweat away from your body, mid-layers for insulation and retaining the warmth, and outer layers to protect you from wind and rain. While it may seem counter-intuitive, wearing/carrying several high-performing layers can keep you more comfortable outdoors than a basic shirt+jacket system.
BASE LAYER
150wt Merino Wool Short Sleeve (Woolly), or
150wt Merino Wool polo (Woolx, Smartwool, Minus33, Woolly)
MID LAYER
170wt Merino Long Sleeve 1/2 zip (REI, Smartwool, etc), or
Lightweight Grid Fleece (Patagonia R1, Arcteryx Delta, etc), or
35+cfm Wind Layer (Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell, Patagonia Airshed)
*The Kor Preshell and Airshed both have DWR treatments, so they resist some light rain
RAIN/WIND *might be an addition to or replace a midlayer
Montbell Peak Dry, or
Montbell Versalite (with pit zips), or
Outdoor Research Helium HD (with pit zips)
*While the Peak Dry does not have mechanical venting, it is BY FAR the most breathable at 80Kcfm
OUTER/THERMAL
North Face Thermoball Vest, or
Patagonia Down Sweater Vest
With a goal to get my kit down to two shirts and two mid-layers, here is the most flexible system for my routes on the Camino, California Missions Trail, Florida Trail, and Appalachian Trail.
MOST FLEXIBLE COMBINATION
Woolx Short Sleeve Polo,
Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece,
Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell
This means I'm packing just two shirts and two layers.
I've found the 150wt merino with the Kor Preshell keeps me warm/cool/dry from approximately 10-22C/50-72F without having to stop to remove layers. The Preshell does well in most light rain; however the Peak Dry is the ultimate "walk all day in the rain without getting wet" piece. It's pricey but exceptionally good. If it's colder, I'll add the Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece over the merino / under the Preshell.
Using this system, I've gotten down to just two shirts, and the two mid-layers for most walks. I've put some pictures on my blog and some links to different options, but I hope this short overview helps you.
Edited for clarity as suggested below.
Thanks very much for the information. This is very helpful.
It's certainly an expensive option but I expect the quality is also top notch.
I have always found wool to be quite itchy on my skin, but admittedly I haven't had any wool products for decades, and I expect they weren't merino wool.
So I think I'll order one of the merino t shirts and give it a try, as my first step.
Merino is a long fibre and that is why it is not itchy. Shetland wool is thick but short, and the fibres stick out all the way along every woven strand. Merino is far more similar to the old, good quality cashmere that was not fluffy but rather a tight, long-haired strand woven into sturdy and soft threads.Thanks very much for the information. This is very helpful.
It's certainly an expensive option but I expect the quality is also top notch.
I have always found wool to be quite itchy on my skin, but admittedly I haven't had any wool products for decades, and I expect they weren't merino wool.
So I think I'll order one of the merino t shirts and give it a try, as my first step.
Same here, SacredSteps. You've started me dreaming again!I'll be walking the California Missions Trail in April 2021 and then - with a little luck - walking in the UK in the late summer: Way of St. Cuthbert, Pilgrims Way from London to Canterbury, and then beginning the Via Francigena from Canterbury into Europe towards Rome. In 2022, I'd like to walk a Camino loop from Santiago/Muxia/Finisterre/Santiago Holy Door and if possible walk in the Holy Land - perhaps Jordan to Jerusalem or the shorter Jesus Trail. It would be a dream to arrive in Jerusalem, Santiago and Rome all in the same year. I still would like to walk the Shikiko Temples in 2023 and back to the Camino Frances in 2023. Buen Camino!
thanks so much for all the info.Honestly, @PatCambridge, I wasn't a "wool guy" at first because I thought of wool as the itchy sweater I had to wear throughout the church service growing up. Fast forward a few more decades and the 150wt merino is - to me - much more comfortable on the skin than the "dri-fit" polyester, better for the economy, and a NIGHT & DAY contrast in terms of odor. I've tried a bunch. The Woolly brand has a little more natural scent when you open the package; Woolx is just amazingly good; same for Smartwool but an even greater price premium. You can find all on their websites, Amazon, etc.
I know layering comes up *a lot* but with advances in textiles and new products coming to market every year, I've spent more time than I would care to admit re-working my layers for both pilgrimage and my non-supported walks on the Appalachian and Florida Trails. I'm headed to the California Missions Trail next month and wanted to share an OVERSIMPLIFIED VERSION of my three-season layers.
A good layering system consists of base layers for moisture management and moving sweat away from your body, mid-layers for insulation and retaining the warmth, and outer layers to protect you from wind and rain. While it may seem counter-intuitive, wearing/carrying several high-performing layers can keep you more comfortable outdoors than a basic shirt+jacket system.
BASE LAYER
150wt Merino Wool Short Sleeve (Woolly), or
150wt Merino Wool polo (Woolx, Smartwool, Minus33, Woolly)
MID LAYER
170wt Merino Long Sleeve 1/2 zip (REI, Smartwool, etc), or
Lightweight Grid Fleece (Patagonia R1, Arcteryx Delta, etc), or
35+cfm Wind Layer (Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell, Patagonia Airshed)
*The Kor Preshell and Airshed both have DWR treatments, so they resist some light rain
RAIN/WIND *might be an addition to or replace a midlayer
Montbell Peak Dry, or
Montbell Versalite (with pit zips), or
Outdoor Research Helium HD (with pit zips)
*While the Peak Dry does not have mechanical venting, it is BY FAR the most breathable at 80Kcfm
OUTER/THERMAL
North Face Thermoball Vest, or
Patagonia Down Sweater Vest
With a goal to get my kit down to two shirts and two mid-layers, here is the most flexible system for my routes on the Camino, California Missions Trail, Florida Trail, and Appalachian Trail.
MOST FLEXIBLE COMBINATION
Woolx Short Sleeve Polo,
Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece,
Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell
This means I'm packing just two shirts and two layers.
I've found the 150wt merino with the Kor Preshell keeps me warm/cool/dry from approximately 10-22C/50-72F without having to stop to remove layers. The Preshell does well in most light rain; however the Peak Dry is the ultimate "walk all day in the rain without getting wet" piece. It's pricey but exceptionally good. If it's colder, I'll add the Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece over the merino / under the Preshell.
Using this system, I've gotten down to just two shirts, and the two mid-layers for most walks. I've put some pictures on my blog and some links to different options, but I hope this short overview helps you.
Edited for clarity as suggested below.
You make a good point but Cashmere is too warm for my three season list. I do like a heavy layer as needed in winter, thoug.Don’t forget cashmere! You can find older ones at thrift stores and it’s really warm!
I ... wanted to share an OVERSIMPLIFIED VERSION of my three-season layers.
You lost me at kilt, @AlwynWellington.I have devised a mix 'n match approach.
I usually walk warm, and warm-up quite quickly.
For me, polypropolene (and other technical fabrics) are a no-no. They work very well at retaining heat and for me this means I am perspiring very heavily. And getting thoroughly wet through, even with only one layer.
Which leaves merino tops.
I carry three tops (two short-sleeve and one long) with a long coat that is impervious to rain and wind.
My usual start is one short sleeved merino top.
If it is especially cold and likely to stay that way I will start with the long sleeved top.
Normally I will continue for several hours, only changing when I stop for some other reason. In other words my starting decision is quite important.
When I stop, if it is cold and I am likely to stop for a while, I will put the long sleeve over the top. And usually remove it before re-starting.
Because the long coat does not breathe, I will usually only have a short sleeve top on. To keep the arms from being in a sauna I will often push the sleeves up.
I also pack a tent. When using that I will wear as many tops as are needed, with the long coat as an extra layer over the sleeping bag (again, if needed).
The one part of me that suffers most from the cold, especially on cold mornings, is my hands. Here I wear waterproof dexshell gloves. These can be easily taken off when walking and stuff in a packing cell strung across my front and anchored to the shoulder straps.
@SacredSteps, you have mentioned several brands which are not available in just about all the places I get to.
Here is my three and a half seasons list
Merino - short sleeve - 150 gsm - 130 g as worn
Merino - short sleeve - 150 gsm - 130 g as worn
Merino - long sleeve - 150 gsm - 170 g as worn
Altus - knee length with hood - 300 g as worn
Dexshell - gloves - ??? g as worn
As I wear the kilt when walking I also wear long (ski) hose over pressure hose (for incipient varicose veins). With the various layers of the kilt (which has built in air-conditioning!) I am usually as snug as a bug in a rug when underway in just about all but the most extreme weather.
Kia kaha (take care, be strong)
PS: I also wish to walk the California Mission Trail - looking like 2023 at the earliest for me. Love to read of your adventures, whether as an occasional blog or as a complete trip report.
I don't think kilts are usually layered with much of anything over them...or under them.I went on a hike yesterday, and since it was a Wednesday the trail wasn't too busy. I saw three men on the trail - two were wearing kilts.
Wonderful suggestion! I have used the Outdoor Research Sleeves for sun protection (very thin, breathable, UPF50) but I hadn't considered using a warmer sleeve until you mentioned it. Makes great sense!For probably 6 months on the Camino, shorts and t-shirts work fine. Rather than layers, I take a pair of arm warmers. Short-sleeved tech shirt plus arm warmers, which typically come off after walking 15-20 minutes in the morning. Can put on or take off without breaking stride. I was shocked at the number of people who commented on them, and did not seem to know what they were.
Don't forget to try them out in rain and mud...both with and without socks.One change I might well make next time is to wear sandals rather than trail shoes, or perhaps take them instead of the flip-flops. I've been wearing them for a while on walks out in the UK and they are super comfy all day long, never get blisters, feet are cool etc. Must be worth an experiment, to see if they can be used for weeks on end on a camino?
One change I might well make next time is to wear sandals rather than trail shoes, or perhaps take them instead of the flip-flops. I've been wearing them for a while on walks out in the UK and they are super comfy all day long, never get blisters, feet are cool etc. Must be worth an experiment, to see if they can be used for weeks on end on a camino?
After using trail runners for my first two Caminos I switched to sandals for the last few. I have now walked the Norte, the Salvador, the Frances from SJPDP to León, and the Portuguese Camino from Porto exclusively in sandals. I wear them with socks while I'm on the Camino - I have waterproof socks for particularly soggy days. They are great in the rain and mud, especially since they are quick and easy to wash and dry.Don't forget to try them out in rain and mud...both with and without socks.
I went on a hike yesterday, and since it was a Wednesday the trail wasn't too busy. I saw three men on the trail - two were wearing kilts.
I use the same type of layering system and have done for over 20 years now and would agree in principal with the items you are using although its all personal choice.I know layering comes up *a lot* but with advances in textiles and new products coming to market every year, I've spent more time than I would care to admit re-working my layers for both pilgrimage and my non-supported walks on the Appalachian and Florida Trails. I'm headed to the California Missions Trail next month and wanted to share an OVERSIMPLIFIED VERSION of my three-season layers.
A good layering system consists of base layers for moisture management and moving sweat away from your body, mid-layers for insulation and retaining the warmth, and outer layers to protect you from wind and rain. While it may seem counter-intuitive, wearing/carrying several high-performing layers can keep you more comfortable outdoors than a basic shirt+jacket system.
BASE LAYER
150wt Merino Wool Short Sleeve (Woolly), or
150wt Merino Wool polo (Woolx, Smartwool, Minus33, Woolly)
MID LAYER
170wt Merino Long Sleeve 1/2 zip (REI, Smartwool, etc), or
Lightweight Grid Fleece (Patagonia R1, Arcteryx Delta, etc), or
35+cfm Wind Layer (Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell, Patagonia Airshed)
*The Kor Preshell and Airshed both have DWR treatments, so they resist some light rain
RAIN/WIND *might be an addition to or replace a midlayer
Montbell Peak Dry, or
Montbell Versalite (with pit zips), or
Outdoor Research Helium HD (with pit zips)
*While the Peak Dry does not have mechanical venting, it is BY FAR the most breathable at 80Kcfm
OUTER/THERMAL
North Face Thermoball Vest, or
Patagonia Down Sweater Vest
With a goal to get my kit down to two shirts and two mid-layers, here is the most flexible system for my routes on the Camino, California Missions Trail, Florida Trail, and Appalachian Trail.
MOST FLEXIBLE COMBINATION
Woolx Short Sleeve Polo,
Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece,
Mountain Hardwear Kor Preshell
This means I'm packing just two shirts and two layers.
I've found the 150wt merino with the Kor Preshell keeps me warm/cool/dry from approximately 10-22C/50-72F without having to stop to remove layers. The Preshell does well in most light rain; however the Peak Dry is the ultimate "walk all day in the rain without getting wet" piece. It's pricey but exceptionally good. If it's colder, I'll add the Arcteryx Delta Zip Grid Fleece over the merino / under the Preshell.
Using this system, I've gotten down to just two shirts, and the two mid-layers for most walks. I've put some pictures on my blog and some links to different options, but I hope this short overview helps you.
Edited for clarity as suggested below.
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