For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
My experience with the creatures confirms this.
In 2012 I was bitten in Via Lactea. In 2013 I was not. In 2009, 10 , 11 I was not bitten in Monte do Gozo. In 2013 I was. I will stay in both of these Albergues in the future.
I was thinking of bringing a large, light silk sheet to wrap around the mattress rather than using a chemical....does this make sense?
As aggravating as bites can be, the real tragedy will be taking them home as live bugs or eggs! The potential problem does not stop at the airport
I do not know about burning the pack but I certainly will not take it or the contents into my house without taking some precautions, i.e., take the washables out and put them in a plastic bag and head straight to the washer/dryer. Putting everything else in quarantine outside until I can wash/spray.SCAREY...... I have thought about burning pack before returning home
I am wondering what prophylactic benefit you are expecting from a silk sheet. The bug(ger)s don't just live in mattresses, they live in cracks and crevices in walls, floors and ceilings; gaps in bed-frames; the rucksack of the careless pilgrim in the next bunk and anywhere else they can hide from the light of day. Known effective bug detection and detterence methods have been re-iterated on this forum ad-nauseum. Unfortunately much wishful thinking has also been offered as fact. The bug has been a succesful parasite of humans, for that is all it is, for most of our evolution: it is not likely to have succeeded for so well for so long if it could be deterred by a nice smell or a bit of fine fabric.
Yes, they are remarkably successful parasites.....and I agree that vigilance with bug detection is essential. If they are in so many places....spraying the mattress with a pesticide or wrapping the mattress to provide a barrier would perhaps deal with mattress and .....I assume.....there is not much else that can be done with infinite number of walls and cracks.I am wondering what prophylactic benefit you are expecting from a silk sheet. The bug(ger)s don't just live in mattresses, they live in cracks and crevices in walls, floors and ceilings; gaps in bed-frames; the rucksack of the careless pilgrim in the next bunk and anywhere else they can hide from the light of day. Known effective bug detection and detterence methods have been re-iterated on this forum ad-nauseum. Unfortunately much wishful thinking has also been offered as fact. The bug has been a succesful parasite of humans, for that is all it is, for most of our evolution: it is not likely to have succeeded for so well for so long if it could be deterred by a nice smell or a bit of fine fabric.
There are a lot of techniques suggested on websites about bed bugs, but not a lot of them have been adopted on the Camino. The spraying of albergues seems to be the most common treatment method. Pilgrims move the bugs and their eggs along the Camino. By the time you see them, they have had a week to hatch from eggs, they have traveled from where you came, and they have traveled to where you are going. You are in danger, or perhaps more accurately, your equipment is in danger right up to being put on the airplane. Bugs may live in walls and crevices, but they can end up in your pack, equipment, or clothes; their eggs, too. Everything should be treated as contaminated when you return home. I have had success with putting everything into a large plastic garbage bag (my wife insists that the pack go into it at baggage pickup at the airport), which is then spayed with permethrin and left closed for two weeks in the garage (it includes what I wore on the plane). I then do the post-camino cleanup of my clothes and equipment.there is not much else that can be done with infinite number of walls and cracks.
I am a teacher and work in schools where the kids live with bedbugs. I have opened homework binders and found bugs...seen them crawl out of backpacks....yes, they can get into anything. Fortunately, I never brought them home. I think the precautions mentioned make sense. I also know that they are sensitive to UV rays. Exposing everything to sunlight will kill a lot....but not the eggs. I hope to expose my gear to as much sun as I can and to seal most things in plastic. I do not want too worry about these ugly...remarkable creatures....just minimize their impact.Please don't spray pesticides inside an Albergue unless you are qualified to do so. Pre-treat your Rucksack and sleeping bag / sheet, use a repellant on exposed skin. Search carefully for bug-sign and if you see any move on - having advised the hospitalero. The vast, vast majority of pilgrims do not get bitten. Some do. As Ivar advises above reports of infestations are usually out-of-date by the time they are published. The most notorious places are well known to the pilgrim network and yet people sleep in them every night of the year, and emerge unscathed.
On your return home follow the sensible and practical advice already published.
And please don't burn your pack at the Lighthouse.
Except you can never really tell when a lodging is going to be suspect!!! My son and DIL picked up bedbugs in the first class cabin of their aircraft to Barcelona in 2015. (good news is they got upgraded to first class, bad news is they spent the next day in Barcelona washing everything)....When I am in a suspect albergue (or hotel/pension) I put the pack into the plastic bag before I set it down.
Except you can never really tell when a lodging is going to be suspect!!! My son and DIL picked up bedbugs in the first class cabin of their aircraft to Barcelona in 2015. (good news is they got upgraded to first class, bad news is they spent the next day in Barcelona washing everything).
Bed bugs need food, and there is none in a car! It is not an impossible mode of transport, but the bed bugs are likely in the packs, not in the taxi.The van itself may be the source.
They were pretty adamant about this.
True, but they don't need to eat often. See this info sheet.Bed bugs need food, and there is none in a car!
... The same backpacks would still arrive at the same albergues.
There's a specially designed mattress net cover you can order from the Internet I've got one it's very lightweight plus pillow cover.I was thinking of bringing a large, light silk sheet to wrap around the mattress rather than using a chemical....does this make sense?
What Internet site did you find this special cover pls?T
There's a specially designed mattress net cover you can order from the Internet I've got one it's very lightweight plus pillow cover.
What Internet site did you find this special cover pls?
THANK YOU! I've added it to my list of de-bugging arsenalThis is the one I use http://www.jackson-sports.com/en/Li...tm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=UnitedKingdom
No idea if it really works but makes me feel better and adds 100g to my pack
There are so many variables. Those bugs may very well be in the van but the van is also picking up from the same places and they may have the extra guests.You are right. No way to know.
That is why I said I should do it every time.
I was talking with some Albergue owners this winter and they were saying that the pack transport service are becoming under suspicion as a source of transmission and spread.
The packs are all piled together in the back of a van in most cases. The van itself may be the source.
They were pretty adamant about this.
I am not sure if there is any precautions that you could take if you use pack transfer services. The packs are all just piled together and in contact for a few hours.
A clear bag would deal with any confusion.Putting it in a big, sturdy rubbish bag? But then it might be confused with being garbage and put into a completely other kind of truck ... ;-) Buen Camino, SY
In the bed bug forum you will see reports from pilgrims regarding bed bugs.
Please know that although an albergue is reported to have had bed bugs, it does not automatically mean that this albergue is a bad albergue. Pilgrims stay in new albergues every day, and someone might have walked in that day with bed bugs... and some other pilgrim might have picked it up before they had time to clean it.
That said, if a particular albergue comes up again and again with bed bugs, that might be an indication that hygiene might not be ideal there.
If you are reporting a particular refugio/albergue please include a date in your title so that people scanning this forum can see when the problem occurred.
Thanks!
Ivar
SYates is always modest, but her article is spot on and, as always, well written.And when you get home consider https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/resources/de-bed-bugging-your-camino-gear.483/
Yes, it is my resource, but it really does work! Buen Camino sin chinches, SY
In the bed bug forum you will see reports from pilgrims regarding bed bugs.
Please know that although an albergue is reported to have had bed bugs, it does not automatically mean that this albergue is a bad albergue. Pilgrims stay in new albergues every day, and someone might have walked in that day with bed bugs... and some other pilgrim might have picked it up before they had time to clean it.
That said, if a particular albergue comes up again and again with bed bugs, that might be an indication that hygiene might not be ideal there.
If you are reporting a particular refugio/albergue please include a date in your title so that people scanning this forum can see when the problem occurred.
Thanks!
Ivar
No, unfortunately she did not. I asked her to please call the albergue.Has your fellow pilgrim (or anybody else) reported the problem to the hospitaler@s? Buen Camino, SY
Whose word are you taking? There are many products that claim to be really effective but independent testing shows very limited value. Of course, it is worth trying almost anything.there is a product out there called Insect Shield that is really effective.
And if you encounter them, tell the next albergue before you enter! The worst that could happen is they refuse to serve you—and you can congratulate yourself for making a sacrifice that benefits many other pilgrims. But more likely they will do you and everyone else the favor of helping you to get completely rid of them. At least I hope that's the majority. It's SO much easier (and less expensive) to spray an empty backpack and wash all the clothes than to treat a room and hope the treatment was good enough.Please know that although an albergue is reported to have had bed bugs, it does not automatically mean that this albergue is a bad albergue. Pilgrims stay in new albergues every day, and someone might have walked in that day with bed bugs... and some other pilgrim might have picked it up before they had time to clean it.
That's exactly what I did last year when I got to Albergue la Senda in Rabanal del Camino. The hospitalera there was wonderful. She took over, and helped me debug all my stuff.And if you encounter them, tell the next albergue before you enter! The worst that could happen is they refuse to serve you—and you can congratulate yourself for making a sacrifice that benefits many other pilgrims. But more likely they will do you and everyone else the favor of helping you to get completely rid of them. At least I hope that's the majority. It's SO much easier (and less expensive) to spray an empty backpack and wash all the clothes than to treat a room and hope the treatment was good enough.
Good post!Do your best and remember they don't transmit disease, they cannot jump or fly, and have a plan for how to deal with all this hassle when you get home
They li e on a feed for months...Bed bugs need food, and there is none in a car! It is not an impossible mode of transport, but the bed bugs are likely in the packs, not in the taxi.
....Using heat, you must get the temperature up to 50 degrees Celsius. People often use a steamer which certainly gets hot enough but can be awkward and not likely to be one sitting around for you to use on the Way. If you think there are eggs (you should always assume there are), retreat in about 15 days.
Booked accommodation is no guarantee against bedbugs, neither are sheets, silk or otherwise.I am thinking the same .... even though I intend to stay in booked accommodation for "need to sleep" reasons ....... Although I think the bugs can also book in these places too.... but a single silk sheet made sense to me too ....
Did anyone try to put all clothes and other fabrics which one carries along when walking into zip-bags? Of course the backpack still can be contaminated with bedbugs, but at least I wouldn't have to worry about the clothes. And when returning home, one could leave the backpack in the garage or elsewhere, but take out the clothes and there'd be no danger of getting bedbugs into ones home. Or is this only wishful thinking?For packs and things that don't go in the dryer - you can put them in a sealed black garbage bad out in the hot sun. If those things are available....
Isolation is an excellent approach. At night I put my whole backpack, and all my belongings that I don't need during the night, into a large dry bag with a foldover top. That protects those things from bedbug invasion. In the morning, I put my sleeping bag and clothes into another dry bag that is closed and goes into my pack for the day. If I don't discover any bites during the day, I assume everything is OK. If I do discover bites, then I know that I need to go straight to a hot dryer and treat the sleeping bag and the night clothes before spreading them out in the albergue.Did anyone try to put all clothes and other fabrics which one carries along when walking into zip-bags?
The Osprey dry bags are very lightweight. My 12 liter Osprey bag weighs 1.2 ounces.@C clearly, which brand/type of large dry bag do you use to hold your backpack in at night? Great idea if it does not weigh too much to carry while walking.
Also, I keep my hipsack with all valuables in the bottom of my sleeping bag/or sack, but I like your idea of encasing it in a ziplock as I never thought of the little critters taking up residence there!
I do usually put mine in ziplock bags to compartmentalize everything. I hope that works. Does anyone know how devious they are - can they get through the fastening? Or like moths do they bite through the plastic? By the time I reached Finisterre though I was more in holiday mode, and less tidy..Did anyone try to put all clothes and other fabrics which one carries along when walking into zip-bags? Of course the backpack still can be contaminated with bedbugs, but at least I wouldn't have to worry about the clothes. And when returning home, one could leave the backpack in the garage or elsewhere, but take out the clothes and there'd be no danger of getting bedbugs into ones home. Or is this only wishful thinking?
I don't understand. How would my 36L Osprey pack fit inside a 12 L Osprey drybag to fully enclose it from exposure to bedbugs?The Osprey dry bags are very lightweight. My 12 liter Osprey bag weighs 1.2 ounces.
Sorry, I misread. I thought that we were talking about putting sleeping gear, clothing, etc into separate dry bags. I think that if I wanted to enclose my entire backpack I would use a plastic trash bag.I don't understand. How would my 36L Osprey pack fit inside a 12 L Osprey drybag to fully enclose it from exposure to bedbugs?
Hi Kanga. I live in Australia and am leaving for the Camino Frances on 15 September. What brand of spray do you use for your backpack and liner before you leave Oz. Many thanks.Heat kills the eggs as well as the bugs. So if you use heat properly you will not need to re-treat. Steam can blow the eggs and bugs away if not directly applied. So not foolproof.
The following information is available elsewhere on the forum, but bears repeating.
It is relatively easy to de-contaminate your gear while walking the camino. I've had to do it several times. I assume that If I have been bitten by bed-bugs, then the chances are high that some of the little critters are hiding somewhere in my pack.
The trick is to find a large commercial dryer (like those found in a laundromat - in Spain called an auto-servicio - and put everything dry into the dryer. I say a large commercial dryer because with more room for everything to tumble the heat will reach every bit of everything. Dry because that way the required heat (50℃ or 122℉) is reached much faster and is more evenly spread. Plus it does not hurt merino (whereas if you put wool in hot water it is likely to felt and shrink it), nor have I had any problem with other natural fibres such as silk or cotton or down sleeping bags. For artificial fibres you need to check - my dry bags, and my Macabi skirts have been good but my technical leggings finished up as a small hard plastic ball.
Provided the dryer is hot enough it does not have to be a long cycle. A loosely filled dryer on high will kill bedbugs and their eggs on a 30 minute cycle (Dini M. Miller, Ph.D., Department of Entomology, Virginia Tech).
Drying racks (like those in ski lodges) would be great, for boots and shoes and books and packs - but I've never seen any in albergues, and again, they would need to get the heat to penetrate everything and up to the right temperature.
For anything that cannot go in the dryer, the best non-toxic option is a freezer, but that needs to be for at least 3 days, so not practical on the camino.
If you need to use pesticides then the carbamates and the organophosphates are more effective than the pyrethrins (Sydney University Dept of Medical Entomology). But not for use next to the body, and you need to take care not to get the stuff on yourself or to inhale any. I have not had to do this, but if I did I would do it outside in the open and use gloves and a face covering. And then take a shower!
I hoped to walk the Camino in Oct. 2019, but this has me really leaning toward cancelling. I’ve distance hiked a lot of places & this was on my list. I grew up in an area with swamps & every bug imaginable, but I still can’t stand bugs & these sound like a nightmare you can’t escape even with all the precautions people describe. Even if you protect your stuff, the person next to you or any place you sit down could have them. I’ve read all of the precautions & remediations. A few people have said not to let it prevent you from going, but I don’t see how.
I do not know about burning the pack but I certainly will not take it or the contents into my house without taking some precautions, i.e., take the washables out and put them in a plastic bag and head straight to the washer/dryer. Putting everything else in quarantine outside until I can wash/spray.
I just walked my first Camino starting the end of May till the beginning of July. Like you I was quite put off about all the stories about bedbugs, crime in albergues, not being able to sleep because of snorers etc.I hoped to walk the Camino in Oct. 2019, but this has me really leaning toward cancelling. I’ve distance hiked a lot of places & this was on my list. I grew up in an area with swamps & every bug imaginable, but I still can’t stand bugs & these sound like a nightmare you can’t escape even with all the precautions people describe. Even if you protect your stuff, the person next to you or any place you sit down could have them. I’ve read all of the precautions & remediations. A few people have said not to let it prevent you from going, but I don’t see how.
I hoped to walk the Camino in Oct. 2019, but this has me really leaning toward cancelling. I’ve distance hiked a lot of places & this was on my list. I grew up in an area with swamps & every bug imaginable, but I still can’t stand bugs & these sound like a nightmare you can’t escape even with all the precautions people describe. Even if you protect your stuff, the person next to you or any place you sit down could have them. I’ve read all of the precautions & remediations. A few people have said not to let it prevent you from going, but I don’t see how.
This is exactly what I do. Everything is quarantined!I do both - I keep my sleeping gear in a separate fold-down drybag (I like the Exped ones), and put my whole pack at night into a very large drybag - it is made as a liner for a 70 litre pack, and my 30 litre pack fits inside it easily. Other people use garbage bags, and those work, but they do tend to tear.
Crazy because I’m here now (day 35 Francés) and I’d say 50% of the people I know have experience with bed begs. Hostels are not helpful and can be downright mean about it. Sheets are never cleaned or changed so it’s just a disaster waiting.
I wish you had not offered such an inaccurate guess, based on your experience of no experience with bedbugs.I cannot offer a reliable probability of getting bit by bed bugs but it must be incredible low, less than 1% chance.
...inaccurate guess, based on your experience of no experience with bedbugs
...take 100% ownership of the decision, knowing the risks.
If I had a friend who had an extreme bedbug phobia and was thinking about the camino, I would stay completely out of their decision.
I'm like you. If I suspect that I have been exposed to bedbugs I take steps to ensure that I'm not that person who is spreading the critters on the Camino.Most people don't bother doing anything and they are usually lucky enough not to take them home. There are ways to ensure you get rid of any hitchhikers, and I prefer to use those control measures.
Anyone here in pharmaceuticals? I’ve had an idea for ages.
There is an oral flea treatment given to dogs which protects them from fleas for about a month. Basically the flea bites the dog but dies due to the treatment the dog has been given. It completely breaks the lifecycle.
I would gladly be part of any trial that tests something like this that was developed for bedbugs.
Anyone? Feel free to cut me in when you make millions
Thanks for the balanced reply to my objection.the tell tale skin reaction from 3 bites or more on a straight line during their Camino? Maybe I’ll do a poll on this question.
Thank you, what a great answer. I can imagine your career would’ve been fascinatingThe medication is Ivermectin. it is available for humans and was originally developed to deal with internal parasites.
Ivermectin results in a kill AFTER the insect feeds. For a bedbug, this makes it a failure as a preventative. As a method for killing off bedbug populations, there are a couple of issues involved.
From an article I have on file:
1. The dosage of the drug used for bedbugs requires a 6-fold higher dose than the needed using the FDA-approved single dose in humans for internal parasites and lice. Ivermectin can have central nervous system side effects in large doses, although studies have found no adverse effects at doses even 10 times higher than the FDA approved single dose.
2. The other issue with Ivermectin is its relative short half-life of 15-20 hours, which might necessitate multiple treatments for all bedbugs to have a chance to ingest the drug. This works great for lice, but not so much for bedbugs.
While with public health, I became very involved with issue of lice treatment protocols, issues with bedbugs, and a few other 'nuisance' concerns. I spent several months researching the literature for a protocol for an effective lice treatment (complete killing of the entire life cycle of the louse on a person infested), which ended up being published in our state for School District Nurses. We trained our local medical community providers who dealt with lice treatments on the Protocol, and even worked with the local pharmacies to stock the needed equipment and treatment solutions.
What started driving this project was the aspect of the total number of school days of instruction being missed by students with lice, as schools (reasonably) excluded students from attending until successfully treated. School nurses would inspect and give a thumbs up or down for attendance.
One of the things that I had found was an esoteric study, reproduced by a couple of other researchers, on the use of Ivermectin for intransigent lice infestations. At that time, using Ivermectin for this purpose was exceedingly uncommon. But given the failure rate of topical head lice treatments due to resistance and user failures to follow directions, Ivermectin seemed like a good, last ditch method to add to the toolbox.
I ended up working with the Chief of Pediatrics at the local hospital/medical clinics to determine Ivermectin's use in a medical treatment algorithm. Quite frankly, he had not been aware of Ivermectin being used for lice, but he quickly adopted its usage after consulting with a variety of medical resources, including tropical medicine specialists and the huge Children's Hospital facility in Seattle.
Anyway, Ivermectin works well as a tool in the lice killing toolbox, but it is not easy to implement as a way of containing bedbug infestations in the environment.
Thank you, what a great answer. I can imagine your career would’ve been fascinating
The good news is that we might get less sensitive with age!
You're just getting TASTIERWhat am I doing wrong???!!!
Nothing. There may just be more bugs. There are certainly more pilgrim vectors.What am I doing wrong???!!!
You are defying the aging process!What am I doing wrong??
Well that would be great news, but it is certainly not my experience. I have been bitten in 3 of the last five years and I have been walking for twenty years. What am I doing wrong???!!!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?