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Don't forget to swim the Pacific first.Technically your Camino starts from your front door, or so I've read. I was planning on getting a ride to the airport and taking a plane over to Paris. From there a train to Le Puy-en-Velay. Will I not be considered a real pilgrim?
That's the long way...I was considering the Atlantic.Don't forget to swim the Pacific first.
That's the long way...I was considering the Atlantic.
That would be cheating!That's the long way...I was considering the Atlantic.
Btw, is swimming allowed? Crikey, we might be cheating....
To all the Real Pilgrims,
Just finish my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago. I had my son meet up with me in Sarria. Unfortunately it rained the final 4 days of our walk. The first day, we had to have pass 200 pilgrims along the way. The next 4 days we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
Definitely not. Only walking on the water is acceptable.
That's the long way...I was considering the Atlantic.
I once had a biology teacher who noted a number of students who were copying classmates' notebooks to turn in at the end of the year. Those of us who struggled to create a good piece of work were resentful.
The teacher's attitude?
He acknowledged it happened. Said they had cheated only themselves. BUT in the process of doing what they did, they were learning something. Different than the rest but still learning
To all the Real Pilgrims,
Just finish my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago. I had my son meet up with me in Sarria. Unfortunately it rained the final 4 days of our walk. The first day, we had to have pass 200 pilgrims along the way. The next 4 days we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
It is when they take the taxi, not out of necessity, by choice and get the last bunk, or all the bottom bunks, or use up the last hot water in the shower. That is what bothers me about 'taxi pilgrims', (also referred to as 'stamp collectors').
Sorry to hear that. Perhaps walking back would help.i can't help feeling angry...
To all the Real Pilgrims,
Just finish my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago. I had my son meet up with me in Sarria. Unfortunately it rained the final 4 days of our walk. The first day, we had to have pass 200 pilgrims along the way. The next 4 days we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
Would Fred Flintstone be cheating since he did have to use his feet to get power and to brake?
Good point! This is the only kind of vehicle [IMAGE] that should be available to taxigrinos!
I just got 200th "like" for my posts, Senqu fellow Pilgrims
That is just so strange. I do not understand that, nor do I ever want to understand that.I saw the young and smiling employees from "Camino companies", with cute logos on their t-shirts, going into Pilgrim's bureau and leaving moments later with plastic bags full of compostelas -maybe twelve or fifteen each.
Taxis, trains, and busses are there for those who need or want them for whatever reason. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using them. (Just as the early pilgrims may have used a little help from a donkey or horse cart if available).
The problem with accepting a Compostela is that it states right in the "stamp collecting" credencial that one must walk at least the last 100km of one's pilgrimage. If you need or want to take a taxi, that's fine but then don't accept a Compostela.
... we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
... People in "organized Caminos"apparently buy the right not only for vans waiting them at next road intersection in case of rain, fatigue or just boredom, but also for a "queue free" compostela or certificate. I saw the young and smiling employees from "Camino companies", with cute logos on their t-shirts, going into Pilgrim's bureau and leaving moments later with plastic bags full of compostelas -maybe twelve or fifteen each.
Well, it is as it is. Just don't let this ruin your experience. It is unique, it is yours.
Yes!Technically your Camino starts from your front door, or so I've read. I was planning on getting a ride to the airport and taking a plane over to Paris. From there a train to Le Puy-en-Velay. Will I not be considered a real pilgrim?
That is strange, I saw the opposite happen when I picked up my last Compostela. Somebody tried to pick up Compostelas for members of their group (that were not present) and the pilgrim office staff was very strict and refused to give out Compostelas for pilgrims that weren't present. Perhaps somebody like @JohnnieWalker oder somebody that has volunteered there could clarify the different procedures? Buen Camino, SY
There is most definately a second queue for "groups". At the old place it ised to be the little office to the right of the main entrance. Now singles queue to the right while "groups" are taken elsewhere. The collector can be the tour orgaiser who then hands them out at mass, like I saw yesterday. And I put " group" in " " because it is a lossly used word: for paid organised trips but also bunches of people who met each other on the tral and who walk in together. I don't get it either.It happens and when I see it, I just pity them, poor pilgrims what they have missed!
That is strange, I saw the opposite happen when I picked up my last Compostela. Somebody tried to pick up Compostelas for members of their group (that were not present) and the pilgrim office staff was very strict and refused to give out Compostelas for pilgrims that weren't present. Perhaps somebody like @JohnnieWalker oder somebody that has volunteered there could clarify the different procedures? Buen Camino, SY
I don't know what you call "application". One man walks in the office with a pile of credenciales and walks out with Compostelas.mSo application has to be made by every single member of a group but collection can be made by one person, does make sense to me! Thanks, SY
Congratulations to your completed pilgrimage BillyB! I hope you and your son had a great time
To the people passing by in taxis - yes, they might have been the kind who were simply too lazy to walk or didn't want to get wet because they found it too uncomfortable.
Or, they might have been sick or injured and in pain, maybe crying their eyes out because they couldn't walk, and recognizing the pilgrims their taxi passed, feeling ashamed because they knew how badly those would think about them.
You simply can't know who belongs to the one group, and who to the other.
So, don't judge – just enjoy your walk, other people's business is other people's business, you won't change it anyway. It is as it is.
Buen Camino (it never ends).
...in the end, what does it matter which mode of movement or transport a body takes to reach a Holy site? Are’nt all who arrive there pilgrims? Some of us walk, that’s all….
peregrina a pie...pèlerine à pied...pilegrim til fots...pilgrim fods...Pilgerin zu Fuß...Walking pilgrim...peregrino a pé...pellegrina a piedi...προσκυνητής με τα πόδια...pelgrim te voet...romar peš...zarándok gyalog...poutník pěšky...pielgrzymujący pieszo...pilgrims fots...צליין הליכה ....etc......
You're absolutely right!
There is nothing in the Compostela which says, or even implies, that you have to get there by walking, riding, flying, swimming or any other way. It's simply a recognition that you have visited the Cathedral in an act of worship and respect. In a sense even if you live right next door and worship there as an act of piety you meet all the conditions specified on the Compostela itself. It's hard, very hard, for me to express what I feel, but tying issuance of a Compostela to a requirement that people should have walked, cycled, or ridden on horseback a certain distance to qualify in a way debases the concept of pilgrimage, although it may have a basis in tradition. I don't think we are in any position to judge a person's motives in paying homage at the Cathedral, or to tie a judgement of them to how the person arrived there.
De Colores
Bogong
We have recently finished the via francegina in Italy and it was a wonderful journey. Did we walk every step? No we didn't as on 2 occasions we had to get a bus. Due to time constraints,we were walking long distances and on one occasion I was almost "done in" and could not walk another step. In fact I was asked if I needed a hospital.!! I didn't think I looked that bad!! The second time was a long Tarmac section which plays havoc on the feet. Did we feel guilty? Certainly not! On a few occasions we met a 92 year old lady journeying from Lucca to Rome with her daughter. She would walk about 12-14 km a day and then get a bus. She was pulling a heavy case on wheels behind her(heavens knows what was in that case but it was heavy!!) I felt it a privilege one day when she let me pull it for a km or so. A deeply religious woman--- did she deserve her compestelas?? Certainly she did.To all the Real Pilgrims,
Just finish my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago. I had my son meet up with me in Sarria. Unfortunately it rained the final 4 days of our walk. The first day, we had to have pass 200 pilgrims along the way. The next 4 days we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
Well said .. This is my second attempt , first one on 2014 put me in los arcos with bone spur on L 5 and a slipped disk . I had to go homeCongratulations to your completed pilgrimage BillyB! I hope you and your son had a great time
To the people passing by in taxis - yes, they might have been the kind who were simply too lazy to walk or didn't want to get wet because they found it too uncomfortable.
Or, they might have been sick or injured and in pain, maybe crying their eyes out because they couldn't walk, and recognizing the pilgrims their taxi passed, feeling ashamed because they knew how badly those would think about them.
You simply can't know who belongs to the one group, and who to the other.
So, don't judge – just enjoy your walk, other people's business is other people's business, you won't change it anyway. It is as it is.
Buen Camino (it never ends).
You are speaking for me. I have walked many caminos, only have one credencial, and it is sleeping in their tube since the very moment I got it.Good thoughts by all.
I travelled from SJPDP to Santiago last year. I covered every inch by foot - that was a personal thing. I loved every second on my Camino.
However, My compostera is still its original tube.
When I arrived at Santiago, it was a real anti-climax. I was totally under-whelmed for 24 hours. It made me realise that it is the journey that's so important, not the destination. A bit of paper isn't the important thing - it's the memories, the experiences, the joy and the sheer sense of wonder that I experienced. That is makes the Camino such a wonderful thing. This year, my wife & I walked from SJPDP to Burgos - and she felt it too
I think if you are doing what you honestly can, you are a very respectable person. Keep you head up, Peregrino. Take care of your knee, enjoy. Buen Camino.Well said .. This is my second attempt , first one on 2014 put me in los arcos with bone spur on L 5 and a slipped disk . I had to go home
Im back now in Viana started in Los Arcos and have a bursa on my left knee . Can hardly walk . Im resting for a couple days in logrono .. if it doesnt improve i might have bus/taxi part or all of it. Maybe I should keep my head down case I get judged?
Hello. I became sick when hearing the words "dont be judgemental". It could be very difficult to accept this when you are observing year after year how so many of those "injured souls" whom are traveling by taxi day afther day, can party all nigth long, walk all the streets of Santiago , and wait for hours at Pilgrims Office´s queue to get a piece of paper they don´t deserve. Yes, you are rigth, some of them are injured, sick, elder people, whom are been trying to do the best they can. Bravo for those valiants, hardworking Pilgrims. They know who they are. But for those cheaters, those who want to savor the honey of succes, but dont like to pay the price of pain, sweat and efforts...For those ( they know who they are) only shame is what they deserve.
And yes, I will be judgemental sometimes, because sometimes I know who they are too, and I like to feel they are paying with shame every time we exchange glances.
Is it making me a bad person? Maybe, but this is the way I think, the way a feel.
Buen Camino to you all, honest people.
I lived on the streets from when I was 17. I'm 50. I have lived indoors only for five years since I was 17. It was a hard life. I was a beggar, could not receive benefits, spat on, humiliated by society, judged by my refusal to die and be quiet/unseen, not even allowed to vote. But everyone in the world is my brother and sister, rich or poor, and many people of the world are poorer than a beggar in England. I was lucky my friend. Don't judge, don't expect, just be thankful.
On my first Camino I met a lady from Belgium who had been walking non stop for 8 years. She was 76 years old. She is called Anita. When I asked her why she has been walking so long she said "because of you". I did not understand until she added "Pilgrims, you are the best society in the world, you keep me alive" Please don't let her down.
Respect
on foot or riding for one hundred thousand meters,
Since 2015 or even some time in 2014,
This is no longer true. Since 2015 or even some time in 2014, the Latin text on the Compostela mentions perfecto itinere sive pedibus sive equitando post postrema centum milia metrorum, birota vero post ducenta which means: on foot or riding for one hundred thousand meters, by bicycle for two hundred thousand meters. Nobody has bothered to update the text and its translations on their website ... is this perhaps a sign of how little it all matters?
I would not compare a Compostela to a medal for a soldier. It's more like the medal you get when you complete a marathon - and where you are among the rank and file and not the elite runners who are professionals. It's a private thing.
. I have no idea how modern Latin works. When I had figured out what the text means, I verified at least three times that I had got it right and, yes, one hundred thousand meters is the same as 100 km.
100,000 km @ 25km average per day would only be 4000 days ( if you did not take any rest days).
Piece of cake.
Give you something to do for the next 10.95 years
Unless...I got a decimal in the wrong place.
To all the Real Pilgrims,
Just finish my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago. I had my son meet up with me in Sarria. Unfortunately it rained the final 4 days of our walk. The first day, we had to have pass 200 pilgrims along the way. The next 4 days we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
Let me correct you. This is what the Pilgrim's Office says:
In the 20th century the growth of pilgrims arriving in Santiago by vehicular transport gave rise to a concern that the aspects of effort and sacrifice previously characteristic of the pilgrimage may be lost or diminished. It was also the case that there was a growth in certificates issued by other bodies which sought to imitate the traditional Compostela. Therefore the Cathedral of Santiago decided that to gain a Compostela a pilgrim had to provide evidence on a credencial that they had walked or travelled on horseback at least the last 100kms of their journey to Santiago and, if travelling by bicycle, the last 200kms. That rule still stands today.
http://peregrinossantiago.es/eng/pilgrimage/the-compostela/
No choice, here. This is how it is supposed to be done. Then, everybody is free to observe it or not.
Hmm,so why were you all so upset when I told you I used my Unicorn
To all the Real Pilgrims,
Just finish my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago. I had my son meet up with me in Sarria. Unfortunately it rained the final 4 days of our walk. The first day, we had to have pass 200 pilgrims along the way. The next 4 days we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
Is it allowed to say buttock?
The last time I tried to find out in how far the sola fide sola gratia concept is part of current Catholic teaching (it is a major element of the Reformation) the thread was shut down so I'm not trying to address this anymore. Ignorance is bliss, they say.
As frustrating as you found this, try not to let it interfere with your experience. People approach the Camino in different ways and it's not for you or me to judge them. A couple of years ago, I took a week out of my very busy life to walk from Logrono to Burgos. One of the days I got talking to a guy en route and explained that I was (unfortunately) there for just a week but hoped to return to finish at a later date. To which he replied ' Oh you're one of THOSE'. I have to admit, it really stung. I felt judged. Here was someone who didn't know me or anything about my journey deciding to become judge and jury. Funnily, he claimed to be a travel writer, despite much googling I have yet to come across any published works by him.Just finish my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago. I had my son meet up with me in Sarria. Unfortunately it rained the final 4 days of our walk. The first day, we had to have pass 200 pilgrims along the way. The next 4 days we found ourselves almost alone (a Good thing) and the brigade of Taxis passed us everyday. It was very disappointing to see the same faces in the pilgrims office getting compostella's that were using the Taxis. I didn't do The Way for a piece of paper, but i can't help feeling angry that these people will go home talking about the Camino as if they actually know what it is.
The last time I tried to find out in how far the sola fide sola gratia concept is part of current Catholic teaching (it is a major element of the Reformation) the thread was shut down so I'm not trying to address this anymore.
Thanks, but you have in a sense confirmed exactly what I said. The Compostela, in Latin, welcomes as pilgrims all who visit and worship in reverence and piety. It says nothing about distance,or the need to produce a signed credencial. The rule you referred to is a stricture imposed for administrative purposes , but in no way is it a definition of who is or isn't a pilgrim. The idea of effort or sacrifice as a means of earning salvation, or getting an indulgence, is medieval and to my knowledge not current theology of any branch of the catholic (small "c") church. They all follow the dictum that salvation is by grace, through faith, and not of human works or sacrifice.
If the distance rule was taken to define who was or was not a pilgrim it would run counter to the wording of the Compostela.
De Colores
Bogong
To which he replied ' Oh you're one of THOSE'. I have to admit, it really stung. I felt judged. Here was someone who didn't know me or anything about my journey deciding to become judge and jury.
Over the years I have lost count of the many different ways in which I have been told I have failed to be a "real pilgrim". I walk too fast. I carry too much gear. I am not Catholic. I walk routes other than the One True Camino. I walk alone (mostly). I have been known to drink alcohol on rare occasions. I sometimes choose my own path rather than follow the yellow arrows. I do not walk all the way from my doorstep (which is tricky as I live on a small island off the coast of France). I wear boots rather than walk barefoot. I like to sleep indoors most nights. I carry money rather than allow the Camino to provide my needs (ie. sponge off others who are self-evidently even less genuine pilgrims than myself). I read maps and guides before I set off rather than be guided entirely by the Spirit of the Camino..... Most of the time these criticisms pass like water off a duck's back. I like to think of myself as serene, tolerant and liberal. It can be difficult at times. When my patience is very severely tested I try to remember the maxim usually misattributed to Voltaire: "I think you are talking out of your **** but I will defend to the death your right to do so." (my own loose paraphrase)
I hope you didn't just focus on those unhappy comments, and also noticed that the tolerant posters far exceed the number of harshly judgemental ones. This is an internet forum; there are always a few (or more) angry posts on any open forum, on any topic.I read some of the comments on this forum about "who the real pilgrims are."
You will! Buen camino!I will enjoy this and make the most out of it.
Actually, this kind of discussions is rather unusual in the Camino. Besides some casual and rare remarks, people are helpful and cheerful. And there are so many walkers in the Sarriá-Compostela stages that you can choose your company (this does not happen in more isolated ways, where you meet the same people again and again, for good or for bad).My husband and I are starting "our camino" from Sarria on June 4th. We were so excited that we got the opportunity to do what we can. My excitement faded as I read some of the comments on this forum about "who the real pilgrims are" But now I decided, I don't care what the judgmental people say. I will enjoy this and make the most out of it.
My gosh, Rebekah, you have outdone even yourself with this post. I think you will be sending a lot of people, myself included, scurrying off to do some soul-searching. Thank you.I think it goes deeper than people cheating on requirements to get a meaningless paper souvenir.
I think what really bothers some of us is this: We know the Camino de Santiago was held sacred for hundreds of years, by millions of people -- the same people whose footsteps and hoofbeats made the trail a sacred place.
We feel honored to join those past travelers along the trail, we marvel that we can take part in this holy journey, stripped-down to minimum possessions, passing through places where our basic needs are met for minimal costs; a social infrastructure built over years to support the pilgrims' journey of transformation. We put our own blood and sweat into the journey.
So we are upset, seeing this sacred place and holy itinerary turned into a low-budget holiday hike, or a backdrop for attention-seeking stunts. "Fellow pilgrims" are self-absorbed trend-chasers who have no clue what the camino is about and not much interest in finding out -- because being a pilgrim often means personal sacrifice, change, pain, and thinking beyond one's self, possessions, addictions, and preconceptions.
It's not the Camino to the tomb of St. James any more. It's "the journey." It's "My personal inner path." It's MY Camino, done MY way, and don't you dare offer advice or counsel or anything outside what I've decided, because that would be "judging." The Camino is no longer about a silly, idealistic community of holy travelers. It's about Me, Me, Me, getting my needs met.
And of course the marketers, hucksters, cab drivers, gurus, and hoteliers swarm like flies to this consumer honey-pot. Bunkhouse beds meant for low-income hikers are full of middle-class freeloaders. Newer, shinier, costlier bunkhouses eventually replace them. The poor are sent back into the streets to sleep.
None of us is poor -- a truly poor pilgrim doesn't post on internet forums. But when we see short-haul tourists zipping past in taxis, collecting the rewards meant for "true" pilgrims -- it violates our sense of justice.
We see something we honor and love being desecrated. That's why it rankles.
I am very much with you on this one, Rebekah; For example, when I was walking 30+ kms. to get some assistance from Reb & Scotty (30 is a bit out of my comfort zone...) , I paused in St. Juan de Ortega, at the albergue Jaques de Molay. I had a good rest there, knowing I had a place to stay a further 6 kms away, so I asked the ""pilgrims" there if they knew the importance of the name of their albergue for the day: "Jaques de Molay". Noone knew the meaning or background. Interesting, to say the least: have pilgrims become clueless, or are they simply tourists?I think it goes deeper than people cheating on requirements to get a meaningless paper souvenir.
I think what really bothers some of us is this: We know the Camino de Santiago was held sacred for hundreds of years, by millions of people -- the same people whose footsteps and hoofbeats made the trail a sacred place.
We feel honored to join those past travelers along the trail, we marvel that we can take part in this holy journey, stripped-down to minimum possessions, passing through places where our basic needs are met for minimal costs; a social infrastructure built over years to support the pilgrims' journey of transformation. We put our own blood and sweat into the journey.
So we are upset, seeing this sacred place and holy itinerary turned into a low-budget holiday hike, or a backdrop for attention-seeking stunts. "Fellow pilgrims" are self-absorbed trend-chasers who have no clue what the camino is about and not much interest in finding out -- because being a pilgrim often means personal sacrifice, change, pain, and thinking beyond one's self, possessions, addictions, and preconceptions.
It's not the Camino to the tomb of St. James any more. It's "the journey." It's "My personal inner path." It's MY Camino, done MY way, and don't you dare offer advice or counsel or anything outside what I've decided, because that would be "judging." The Camino is no longer about a silly, idealistic community of holy travelers. It's about Me, Me, Me, getting my needs met.
And of course the marketers, hucksters, cab drivers, gurus, and hoteliers swarm like flies to this consumer honey-pot. Bunkhouse beds meant for low-income hikers are full of middle-class freeloaders. Newer, shinier, costlier bunkhouses eventually replace them. The poor are sent back into the streets to sleep.
None of us is poor -- a truly poor pilgrim doesn't post on internet forums. But when we see short-haul tourists zipping past in taxis, collecting the rewards meant for "true" pilgrims -- it violates our sense of justice.
We see something we honor and love being desecrated. That's why it rankles.
I appreciate what you are saying. But I have to admit that I am shrinking back into a corner trying to stay invisible. I doubt that I qualify as a true pilgrim although something about it has certainly captured my interest. I hope that, as a middle-class traveler, I do not detract from the experience of others, whatever their class or motives may be.I think it goes deeper than people cheating on requirements to get a meaningless paper souvenir.
I think what really bothers some of us is this: We know the Camino de Santiago was held sacred for hundreds of years, by millions of people -- the same people whose footsteps and hoofbeats made the trail a sacred place.
We feel honored to join those past travelers along the trail, we marvel that we can take part in this holy journey, stripped-down to minimum possessions, passing through places where our basic needs are met for minimal costs; a social infrastructure built over years to support the pilgrims' journey of transformation. We put our own blood and sweat into the journey.
So we are upset, seeing this sacred place and holy itinerary turned into a low-budget holiday hike, or a backdrop for attention-seeking stunts. "Fellow pilgrims" are self-absorbed trend-chasers who have no clue what the camino is about and not much interest in finding out -- because being a pilgrim often means personal sacrifice, change, pain, and thinking beyond one's self, possessions, addictions, and preconceptions.
It's not the Camino to the tomb of St. James any more. It's "the journey." It's "My personal inner path." It's MY Camino, done MY way, and don't you dare offer advice or counsel or anything outside what I've decided, because that would be "judging." The Camino is no longer about a silly, idealistic community of holy travelers. It's about Me, Me, Me, getting my needs met.
And of course the marketers, hucksters, cab drivers, gurus, and hoteliers swarm like flies to this consumer honey-pot. Bunkhouse beds meant for low-income hikers are full of middle-class freeloaders. Newer, shinier, costlier bunkhouses eventually replace them. The poor are sent back into the streets to sleep.
None of us is poor -- a truly poor pilgrim doesn't post on internet forums. But when we see short-haul tourists zipping past in taxis, collecting the rewards meant for "true" pilgrims -- it violates our sense of justice.
We see something we honor and love being desecrated. That's why it rankles.
It's not the Camino to the tomb of St. James any more. It's "the journey." It's "My personal inner path." It's MY Camino, done MY way, and don't you dare offer advice or counsel or anything outside what I've decided, because that would be "judging." The Camino is no longer about a silly, idealistic community of holy travelers. It's about Me, Me, Me, getting my needs met.
I posted this in another, related, thread but I think I post it here again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peregrinus_(Roman) Peregrinus lat. means the (free) stranger that comes over the fields. The original meaning makes no reference so ever to the method to cross those fields used. Buen Camino, SY
It is only the second time in a year that I notice that someone mentions this.
For many people - and according to the assorted vast Camino literature - pilgrimage, at least pilgrimage on foot, needs an element of hardship, pain, effort, sacrifice, otherwise it's not a proper pilgrimage. Hence the disdain for those who opt for a more effortless pilgrimage (why doesn't English have a single verb for 'going on a pilgrimage'?)
The last time I tried to find out in how far the sola fide sola gratia concept is part of current Catholic teaching (it is a major element of the Reformation) the thread was shut down so I'm not trying to address this anymore. Ignorance is bliss, they say.
I'm the same as you. I'm not Catholic, or Christian, or religious in any way. I won't be asking for a Compostela because I'm not walking for religious reasons. I am walking to walk, and experience the culture, landscape and people of this part of Spain, and hopefully make some friends along the way. I have respect for everyone walking the Camino regardless of their reasons. I'm sorry if my existence on the Camino offends any "real pilgrims".I appreciate what you are saying. But I have to admit that I am shrinking back into a corner trying to stay invisible. I doubt that I qualify as a true pilgrim although something about it has certainly captured my interest. I hope that, as a middle-class traveler, I do not detract from the experience of others, whatever their class or motives may be.
I sincerely hope that you will not let this discussion dampen your enthusiasm. I have, from time to time, had to come to terms with the fact that I am regarded by some as a second-class pilgrim because I camino on a bike. Like me, you will feel great admiration for those you meet who have walked great distances to get to Santiago. That does not diminish my own experience and effort. The distance travelled is irrelevant, except in terms of the Compostela rule, and that is not supposed to be the definition of a pilgrim. It is your motivation that will determine the personal (and frequently spiritual), benefit you gain.My excitement faded as I read some of the comments on this forum about "who the real pilgrims are"
I tend to avoid these discussions but now I must chime in.Ages ago I read a book with the title of something like "If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him." The title came from a Buddhist saying and its meaning was essentially that one must find one's own path.
These bookends of Rebekah's post say a lot.We know the Camino de Santiago was held sacred for hundreds of years, by millions of people -- the same people whose footsteps and hoofbeats made the trail a sacred place....we see something we honor and love being desecrated. That's why it rankles.
I'd agree wholeheartedly with that!it's about honesty, respect, and attitude
I think it goes deeper than people cheating on requirements to get a meaningless paper souvenir.
I think what really bothers some of us is this: We know the Camino de Santiago was held sacred for hundreds of years, by millions of people -- the same people whose footsteps and hoofbeats made the trail a sacred place.
We feel honored to join those past travelers along the trail, we marvel that we can take part in this holy journey, stripped-down to minimum possessions, passing through places where our basic needs are met for minimal costs; a social infrastructure built over years to support the pilgrims' journey of transformation. We put our own blood and sweat into the journey.
So we are upset, seeing this sacred place and holy itinerary turned into a low-budget holiday hike, or a backdrop for attention-seeking stunts. "Fellow pilgrims" are self-absorbed trend-chasers who have no clue what the camino is about and not much interest in finding out -- because being a pilgrim often means personal sacrifice, change, pain, and thinking beyond one's self, possessions, addictions, and preconceptions.
It's not the Camino to the tomb of St. James any more. It's "the journey." It's "My personal inner path." It's MY Camino, done MY way, and don't you dare offer advice or counsel or anything outside what I've decided, because that would be "judging." The Camino is no longer about a silly, idealistic community of holy travelers. It's about Me, Me, Me, getting my needs met.
And of course the marketers, hucksters, cab drivers, gurus, and hoteliers swarm like flies to this consumer honey-pot. Bunkhouse beds meant for low-income hikers are full of middle-class freeloaders. Newer, shinier, costlier bunkhouses eventually replace them. The poor are sent back into the streets to sleep.
None of us is poor -- a truly poor pilgrim doesn't post on internet forums. But when we see short-haul tourists zipping past in taxis, collecting the rewards meant for "true" pilgrims -- it violates our sense of justice.
We see something we honor and love being desecrated. That's why it rankles.
Amen.No one said you have to be a Christian to walk the camino. Just be respectful, is all. Don't expect the Camino to conform to your wishes. Conform your wishes to the camino. Honor the people around you, even the scruffy ones.
If you are not utilizing the holy path for a holy reason, give way to those who are. If you are not homeless, don't take a bed in a homeless shelter.
"Judging" has become a dirty word, but good judgement is needed when you're a secular person in an overtly religious place.
Can it not be both, Katharina? It's not so black and white as that, I think.Are you saying that the Camino de Santiago is a holy place, holy space, a sacred journey, and no longer a cultural heritage route?
I think what really bothers some of us is this: We know the Camino de Santiago was held sacred for hundreds of years, by millions of people -- the same people whose footsteps and hoofbeats made the trail a sacred place. We feel honoured to join those past travellers along the trail, we marvel that we can take part in this holy journey, stripped-down to minimum possessions, passing through places where our basic needs are met for minimal costs; a social infrastructure built over years to support the pilgrims' journey of transformation. We put our own blood and sweat into the journey.
So we are upset, seeing this sacred place and holy itinerary turned into a low-budget holiday hike, or a backdrop for attention-seeking stunts. "Fellow pilgrims" are self-absorbed trend-chasers who have no clue what the camino is about and not much interest in finding out -- because being a pilgrim often means personal sacrifice, change, pain, and thinking beyond one's self, possessions, addictions, and preconceptions.
It's not the Camino to the tomb of St. James any more. It's "the journey." It's "My personal inner path." It's MY Camino, done MY way, and don't you dare offer advice or counsel or anything outside what I've decided, because that would be "judging." The Camino is no longer about a silly, idealistic community of holy travellers. It's about Me, Me, Me, getting my needs met.
And of course the marketers, hucksters, cab drivers, gurus, and hoteliers swarm like flies to this consumer honey-pot. Bunkhouse beds meant for low-income hikers are full of middle-class freeloaders. Newer, shinier, costlier bunkhouses eventually replace them. The poor are sent back into the streets to sleep.
None of us is poor -- a truly poor pilgrim doesn't post on internet forums. But when we see short-haul tourists zipping past in taxis, collecting the rewards meant for "true" pilgrims -- it violates our sense of justice.
We see something we honour and love being desecrated. That's why it rankles.
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