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Good description. Wikipedia also notes that the style "was identifiably Medieval and prefigured the Gothic, yet maintained the rounded Roman arch and thus appeared to be a continuation of the Roman tradition of building."Romanesque architecture refers to a period of time from the 6th century to 12th century before the Renaissance Age. The architecture was sturdy and symmetrical, almost clunky, with thick walls and barrel vaults, there were rarely soaring spaces and audacious towers because the constructors were not as daring as they would become years later.
I guess it is all relative, but it puzzles me a bit, as those buildings don't strike me as being of profoundly human scale.the profoundly human scale
Did they continue to be used with the transition to Gothic?Decorative carved figures DO appear on a lot of Romanesque churches, some of them pretty spectacular and even racy! They appear especially around the doorways and along the rooflines...
I will have to go back and read that again.Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth
I guess it is all relative, but it puzzles me a bit, as those buildings don't strike me as being of profoundly human scale.
Did they continue to be used with the transition to Gothic?
Yes, I've started to explore the subject on the internet. I keep thinking I should study more, in order to answer my own questions before I ask them in public, but I've decided to display my ignorance and encourage others to join in.You can find numerous tutorials/videos on youtube.
Certainly. But I'm glad tou posted this, @C clearly — it's fun and more interactive to discuss it here.You can find numerous tutorials/videos on youtube.
I'll give you a few words:to say in one sentence, how they recognize Romanesque when they see it.
Here are @caminka’s photos from her wililoc track: the guy picking his teeth made me chuckle out loud. And then someone has a toothache...and is that woman giving birth!? From this fortunate vantage point it makes me ponder the common and universal woes in the 12th C., when toothaches and birth would have been much more dangerous events than they are now.
@peregrina2000 described it well. I would just add the comparison between a soaring light-filled jewel box like the Gothic Leon Cathedral, which draws the mind out and up, and the more dark, quiet, and internal space of a Romanesque church.it puzzles me a bit, as those buildings don't strike me as being of profoundly human scale.
Wonderful link!! Gracias.for Romanesque lovers, @romanicoespana is a great follow on Instagram.
gothic architecture has a lot of decorated and human figure capitals.
It is indeed stunning but also quite unusual. Because of the height and the pointed arches I agree with @Kanga that it’s a transitional style between Romanesque and Gothic. Romanesque features I can see are the light-coloured stone and tiled roof, and possibly the ‘flat’ tower tops?That is stunning! How would one recognize the Romanesque?
Yes, and a feeling of heaviness about the buildings, as opposed to airiness. Contrast @Kanga 's photo of the outside of La Romieu (which may indeed be transitional) with this, the high Gothic of Leon Cathedral:I'm left with the round arches and windows combined with sturdy and symmetrical support, as the hallmark of Romanesque.
VNWalking,Yes, and a feeling of heaviness about the buildings, as opposed to airiness. Contrast @Kanga 's photo of the outside of La Romieu (which may indeed be transitional) with this, the high Gothic of Leon Cathedral:
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The flying buttresses are a Gothic innovation that allowed soaring ceilings and lighter walls:
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I'm hoping @mspath chimes in with her deeper expertise...
I don't think that Saint-Pierre de La Romieu is Romanesque. My first impression: It doesn't have flying buttresses which makes it look sturdy like Romanesque churches and not as light (weightless) and elegant as Gothic sacral buildings. But not all Gothic churches are light and elegant, far from it. The windows of La Romieu look Gothic (shape, i.e. the pointed arches AND geometric pattern within the windows and probably also their tall and wide size make them Gothic), the cloister is Gothic (shapes).That is stunning! How would one recognize the Romanesque?
That is correct, of course. But there must be a reason why the architectural style in England is generally called Norman and not Romanesque while the style in France and Spain (and Italy and Portugal) is just called Romanesque. I am vaguely familiar with some outstanding Romanik/Romanesque sacral buildings in Germany and other northern countries, and have even visited a few, and, yes, wonderful and admirable. But when I think of Romanesque now, of the kind that touches me the most and makes me want to see more of it or see it again, it's in the southern parts of France and the northern parts of Spain.also just learned that the Romanesque style is that which is called "Norman" in England. I have long had a vague idea of what "Norman" looked like. So I am making progress with recognizing the basic building style.
Regional differences are way beyond my discernment capacity. I'd love to know what you are seeing that I am missing.it's in the southern parts of France and the northern parts of Spain.
Yes, exactly. If I recall correctly, what we call Gothic was referred to as 'French style' at the time because that was its origin, so the 'time and place' part of your comment is interesting and important. When they were starting to build in Gothic buildings in France, they were likely still building Romanesque ones in Spain. Plus you have the other styles impacting local architecture in various places (e.g. mudéjar in Spain, which is sometimes combined with Romanesque). And now that I've led myself down this rabbit hole, and since this seems relevant to the topic and unmentioned yet, here's an example.I also think that these categories are a bit fluid. It’s not like there was a romanesque church-building instruction book for use in the 9th - 12th centuries, which was then swapped for the gothic book. The transitions happened gradually and in a disperse manner over time and place. And given the many years it took to build, many of the churches started out in one style and were finished in another.
Don't forget about the useful reminder in your purse, with images of the rounded heavy appearance of the Romanesque portal and of the pointed Gothic window with typical fine tracery.some pointers on how to recognize different styles of architecture in Spain [...] let's start with one style that is often mentioned in connection with the Camino - Romanesque
I haven't looked this up (although that seems to be the theme of this threadThat is correct, of course. But there must be a reason why the architectural style in England is generally called Norman and not Romanesque while the style in France and Spain (and Italy and Portugal) is just called Romanesque. I am vaguely familiar with some outstanding Romanik/Romanesque sacral buildings in Germany and other northern countries, and have even visited a few, and, yes, wonderful and admirable. But when I think of Romanesque now, of the kind that touches me the most and makes me want to see more of it or see it again, it's in the southern parts of France and the northern parts of Spain.
Isn't it?Certainly. But I'm glad you posted this, @C clearly — it's fun and more interactive to discuss it here.
That's the difference in a nutshell, isn't it?The more complicated the visual geometry, the less Romanesque it is. That goes for the building as a whole as well as for individual elements.
Yet despite being simpler, Romanesque is still better!And the gradual shift from one style to the next is an incremental increase in geometric complexity and elaboration.
These images are ideal representations of an European style and not of any particular structure. Read more here re Euro banknote design images.Don't forget about the useful reminder in your purse, with images of the rounded heavy appearance of the Romanesque portal and of the pointed Gothic window with typical fine tracery.
Rule of thumb: The more complicated the visual geometry, the less Romanesque it is. That goes for the building as a whole as well as for individual elements.
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Isn't simple always better?Yet despite being simpler, Romanesque is still better!
To put it at its most crude, the arches are rounded not vaulted/pointed. But that is really simplistic.As a person with very limited knowledge of architecture and history, I'd like to get some pointers on how to recognize different styles of architecture in Spain. It is overwhelming to google and find the huge amount of detail available - I need something a little more friendly, to get me started.
Rather than trying to go chronologically through history, let's start with one style that is often mentioned in connection with the Camino - Romanesque.
My challenge is for those unnamed members who wax poetic about Romanesque, to say in one sentence, how they recognize Romanesque when they see it. Feel free to write more, of course, but try to include your single-sentence summary of the essence of the style. I know the subject is more complex than that, but it is sometimes interesting to try to describe the essence.
If you have a photo or two on which you can point out specific features, that would be helpful, but this isn't meant to be a photo album of all your favourite churches! I have just Googled "romanesque style" and found 17,000,000 hits, and more than a few of them are photos! What I need is simple commentary on what to look for.
If it is any excuse, I come from a part of the world where there are virtually no buildings dating even to Victorian times, let alone medieval!
Great and simple explanation of romanesque!Certainly. But I'm glad tou posted this, @C clearly — it's fun and more interactive to discuss it here.
I'll give you a few words:
Simple, even austere.
Rounded arches.
Small windows.
Heavy columns.
Grounded, rather than soaring and light-filled.
No flying buttresses.
I am always charmed by the small natural sculptures under the eaves and above doors— like the sweetness of the cows at the Diomondi. Nearby, on the outskirts of Chantada, there was a church with squirrels.
Then on the Viejo and the first part of the Olvidado, there are some Churches with quite racy images on the corbels (under the eaves):
@peregrina2000 described it well. I would just add the comparison between a soaring light-filled jewel box like the Gothic Leon Cathedral, which draws the mind out and up, and the more dark, quiet, and internal space of a Romanesque church.
Wonderful link!! Gracias.
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Hey, I'm no expert either, but hope this helps... Romanesque (as opposed to Gothic) is sturdy with-OUT any flourishes, characterized by meticulous brickwork usually orange/brown or grey (sometimes Fortress-like), built from the 6th Cent. through the Middle Ages up to the 11th Cent. (12th Cent. brings the Gothic-style).As a person with very limited knowledge of architecture and history, I'd like to get some pointers on how to recognize different styles of architecture in Spain. It is overwhelming to google and find the huge amount of detail available - I need something a little more friendly, to get me started.
Rather than trying to go chronologically through history, let's start with one style that is often mentioned in connection with the Camino - Romanesque.
My challenge is for those unnamed members who wax poetic about Romanesque, to say in one sentence, how they recognize Romanesque when they see it. Feel free to write more, of course, but try to include your single-sentence summary of the essence of the style. I know the subject is more complex than that, but it is sometimes interesting to try to describe the essence.
If you have a photo or two on which you can point out specific features, that would be helpful, but this isn't meant to be a photo album of all your favourite churches! I have just Googled "romanesque style" and found 17,000,000 hits, and more than a few of them are photos! What I need is simple commentary on what to look for.
If it is any excuse, I come from a part of the world where there are virtually no buildings dating even to Victorian times, let alone medieval!
Most of the Norman churches we have where I live (Kent) are quite petite with heavy columns and small windows - except the ones that were butchered by Victorian "restorers". Even the castles - Dover, Rochester and the Tower of London, have small windows. Don't forget glass would have been a luxury and England didn't offer the same climate as Sicily!I haven't looked this up (although that seems to be the theme of this thread), but I would guess that Romanesque and Norman are not close enough to have the same name. You often see buildings from that era in England referred to as Anglo-Norman, which perhaps serves to differentiate them from the Norman-Arab-Byzantine fusion heritage in and around Palermo. Perhaps there was influence from the Norman kingdom in Sicily in spreading Mediterranean-style architecture back to England? But my memory of the Norman buildings in England is that they include what would appear to be Gothic elements (e.g. larger interior spaces) more so than Romanesque?
Isn't it?
It's probably to do with the English obsession about being invaded and conquered and not feeliing very romantic about it.That is correct, of course. But there must be a reason why the architectural style in England is generally called Norman and not Romanesque while the style in France and Spain (and Italy and Portugal) is just called Romanesque. I am vaguely familiar with some outstanding Romanik/Romanesque sacral buildings in Germany and other northern countries, and have even visited a few, and, yes, wonderful and admirable. But when I think of Romanesque now, of the kind that touches me the most and makes me want to see more of it or see it again, it's in the southern parts of France and the northern parts of Spain.
The Normans in Sicily were associated with Normandy and France, not with those Normans who had conquered England. My remembrance of Norman history would not support any Sicilian architectural influence into England by Normans. Interesting stuff though.You often see buildings from that era in England referred to as Anglo-Norman, which perhaps serves to differentiate them from the Norman-Arab-Byzantine fusion heritage in and around Palermo. Perhaps there was influence from the Norman kingdom in Sicily in spreading Mediterranean-style architecture back to England?
Yes, the buildings seem fort-like. That's why I find the charming carved embellishments to be a little out-of-place on the otherwise simple austere buildings. Of course, that conflict is what is so interesting, in addition to the actual story telling!Romanesque architecture was fort-like for several reasons. The primary reason is that such a building was not centered in a village or city, but just in the country.
I took a course on Gothic architecture from Yale
I wonder whether it's the same course that I didYes, the buildings seem fort-like.
I also started the Age of Cathedrals course but I don't think I got very far for reasons unknown. I went though a MOOC craze about 6 years ago and have over 50 certificates but this one might have been when I was a bit burnt out! I should probably go back and complete it. Here's the link for anyone interested.I wonder whether it's the same course that I did.
@C clearlyYes, the buildings seem fort-like. That's why I find the charming carved embellishments to be a little out-of-place on the otherwise simple austere buildings. Of course, that conflict is what is so interesting, in addition to the actual story telling!
Can anyone enlighten us about the carvings - were they always done at the time of construction, or added later? Can we draw any conclusions from their presence or absence? As I asked before, do Norman buildings in England have carvings?
I would recommend Philip Ball's Universe of Stone, about the triumph of Gothic architecture, but noteworthy for its discussion of Romanesque. He describes the different look in terms of the stones being for the purpose of holding up the building, whereas Gothic represents an enormous intellectual transition. I usually note the timber ceilings of the Romanesque and the absence of glazing (easier to stand a building up if not pockmarked with pesky holes). I carry the book on my phone when walking, as it's a great reference.As a person with very limited knowledge of architecture and history, I'd like to get some pointers on how to recognize different styles of architecture in Spain. It is overwhelming to google and find the huge amount of detail available - I need something a little more friendly, to get me started.
Rather than trying to go chronologically through history, let's start with one style that is often mentioned in connection with the Camino - Romanesque.
If it is any excuse, I come from a part of the world where there are virtually no buildings dating even to Victorian times, let alone medieval!
There were lots of internal threats in England. Henry I arguably stole the throne from his big brother and there were lots of internal squabbles about who should be king. (My ancestor backed the wrong guy and was stripped of his barony.) But defence aside, this may have simply been the only way their builders knew how to make a big church.I do not know why the church at Church Hanborough was so fortress-like in style, as it was built after the Norman Conquest, when I can see no reason for internal threat in England. Perhaps the style was imported from elsewhere.
They certainly can look defensive. But at least in the case of Northern Iberia, I'm guessing the need for that is rooted in defense against the Moors.He does say that the Romanesque style emanated from the great period of defensive retreat into the countryside after the collapse of the Carolingian empire in the 9th century.
The Romanesque stone carvings that I have seen, first in real life on the way to Santiago from about Poitiers in the south west of France onwards and later in Spain on the Camino Francés from about Estella onwards, and still later on photos, again mainly from southern France and northern Spain, are a main reason why I’ve joined the ranks of those who (quote) “wax poetic about Romanesque” (end quote). I think parts of Italy, for example Lombardy, ought to be included here but I know little about it. To my knowledge, nothing even remotely comparable can be found in England although it found its way into Norman architecture, too.Can anyone enlighten us about the carvings - were they always done at the time of construction, or added later? Can we draw any conclusions from their presence or absence? As I asked before, do Norman buildings in England have carvings?
This is my favorite part.And then there are of course also the sculptures on the Romanesque corbels. Let’s not forget about the corbels.
Thank you. Now I know! I had noticed that but did not know the name for it. Like this?The chess like pattern, btw, above the corbels is called Jaca pattern or something like this, and you can detect it in a number of places along the Camino Francés.
Just to be clear, it is the whimsy rather than the raciness that I find appealing.This is my favorite part.
Yes, that's it. The proper name in Spanish for these "chessboard" decorative bands is taqueado jaqués or ajedrezado jaqués, named after the model on the 12th century cathedral of Jaca. Apparently, this pattern is typical for Spanish Romanesque architecture and can be found in particular on buildings of the Camino de Santiago (which is, broadly speaking, the wide corridor around the Francés / Aragonés / Invierno ...)I had noticed that but did not know the name for it. Like this?
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Oh, thanks for this clarificationJust to be clear, it is the whimsy rather than the raciness that I find appealing.
This reminds me of something the guides told us once when we visited the monastery at Batalha, a great Portuguese late gothic creation. At the completion of the church, the architect or engineer or someone in charge offered to sleep inside overnight to prove to everyone that it was indeed safe. There was apparently a lot of disbelief that human construction could soar so high. @jungleboy, I may have my details fuzzy on that, does this story ring a bell with you?He describes the different look in terms of the stones being for the purpose of holding up the building, whereas Gothic represents an enormous intellectual transition.
Me, too!Loving this thread!
Thank you for these excellent photos of these three interior capitals from San Martín in Fromista, @jungleboy.The church of San Martín in Frómista has been mentioned upthread as a beautiful Romanesque church on the Francés and some outside photos were posted but it must be time to talk about the incredible interior capitals. I spent a long time inside looking at and photographing them! I'll put the third one behind a spoiler because of sculptural nudity.
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This church is awesome. And best of all, it is still in active use!Yes, exactly. If I recall correctly, what we call Gothic was referred to as 'French style' at the time because that was its origin, so the 'time and place' part of your comment is interesting and important. When they were starting to build in Gothic buildings in France, they were likely still building Romanesque ones in Spain. Plus you have the other styles impacting local architecture in various places (e.g. mudéjar in Spain, which is sometimes combined with Romanesque). And now that I've led myself down this rabbit hole, and since this seems relevant to the topic and unmentioned yet, here's an example.
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This is the 12th-century Romanesque-Mudéjar church of San Gervasio and San Protasio in Santervás de Campos on the Camino de Madrid.
The triple apse is the church’s most significant architectural feature. The outer two apses are in Mudéjar style (Muslim-influenced architecture on Christian buildings in Spain), including the use of brick, the many arches, and the geometric patterns above the arches. The stone central apse, however, is Romanesque. The combination of these two architectural styles in one building is not uncommon; the San Tirso church in nearby Sahagún is another good example.
The church of San Martín in Frómista
This church is awesome.
This reminds me of something the guides told us once when we visited the monastery at Batalha, a great Portuguese late gothic creation. At the completion of the church, the architect or engineer or someone in charge offered to sleep inside overnight to prove to everyone that it was indeed safe. There was apparently a lot of disbelief that human construction could soar so high. @jungleboy, I may have my details fuzzy on that, does this story ring a bell with you?
Loving this thread!
It doesn't, sorry, although I have been to Batalha and it is a very impressive complex.
PS: I’m not sure but I think that sculptured corbels and historiated capitals disappeared in Gothic art/architecture while the tympanum flourished.
The proper name in Spanish for these "chessboard" decorative bands is taqueado jaqués or ajedrezado jaqués, named after the model on the 12th century cathedral of Jaca. Apparently, this pattern is typical for Spanish Romanesque architecture and can be found in particular on buildings of the Camino de Santiago
The Jaca pattern seems to be a 3-D pattern of block placement that creates a light and dark shadow effect. I like such patterns and will remember this feature.The proper name in Spanish for these "chessboard" decorative bands is taqueado jaqués or ajedrezado jaqués, named after the model on the 12th century cathedral of Jaca. Apparently, this pattern is typical for Spanish Romanesque architecture
That will help me avoid making some really ignorant comments.Another rule of the thumb for @C clearly: When you are in a white area, it isn't Romanesque.
Yeah, but when you're actually in Spain, ynfortunately the landscape isn't color-coordinated like that...That will help me avoid making some really ignorant comments.
It's a job that the apprentice stonemasons could handle easily too.The proper name in Spanish for these "chessboard" decorative bands is taqueado jaqués or ajedrezado jaqués, named after the model on the 12th century cathedral of Jaca. Apparently, this pattern is typical for Spanish Romanesque architecture and can be found in particular on buildings of the Camino de Santiago
Prisons were more more like dungeons at the time. Let's say: alive in and dead out. The punishment would more often be death by hanging or maybe banishment for life if you were lucky. So, working on a dangerous job could have been the less of a lot of evils..... And terrifying to think that condemned prisoners were the labor that built it.
That course by Bloch seems to be truncated to the course I took. I checked Coursera and the Course I took is not offered at present. It seems like we studied a few more cathedrals than what is currently covered in Bloch's course. However, I would recommend taking it - it is free on Cousera - and if you love Gothic architecture you will find yourself in heaven while studying St. Denis, Notre Dame, and Chartres.I wonder whether it's the same course that I did. It's on Coursera and given by Howard Bloch, professor of French at Yale. It deals mainly with Gothic cathedrals and churches in France and with societal changes but there is a block about the Romanesque. I watched the 6 min video again.
He does say that the Romanesque style emanated from the great period of defensive retreat into the countryside after the collapse of the Carolingian empire in the 9th century. I wonder, however ... The example shown in the video is the church of the abbey of Jumièges in Normandy in the north of France. I am a bit skeptical but will leave it at that, I'm an amateur and not an expert.
This construction - two west towers and a west portal as the main entry instead of the south portal - reminds me more of the northern European Romanesque churches than of their more southern cousins. There is even a word for this architectural component: Westwork (from German Westwerk), defined as the monumental, often west-facing entrance section of a Carolingian, Ottonian, or Romanesque church.
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Thanks for the reference. I have just put in a request for this book on interlibrary loans.I am making my way, slowly but with considerable satisfaction, through Janice Mann's Romanesque Architecture and its Sculptural Decoration in Christian Spain, 1000-1120: Exploring Frontiers and Defining Identities.
If ever in London. the 12th century Temple Church has a fantastic round Nave.For me, the two most pleasing aspects of romanesque churches (apart from the profoundly human scale it produces when you combine all of its features) are the round arches and the apses. It’s a double pleasure to be able to enjoy the building from the outside as much (or sometimes more) than from the inside.. The church at the monastery at Granja de Moreruela is one of my favorite exteriors (even though there is no interior left),as is this one on Murano in Venice.
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The buildings that make up the so-called Castillo de los Templarios in Ponferrada may be romantic but they are not Romanesque. They ought to be removed from any list of typical examples of Romanesque buildings.The Ponferrada castle certainly has the blocky structure associated with Romanesque, and a nice semicircular arch at the entrance, but it doesn't have round windows or the simple human scale that has been mentioned. Is it truly Romanesque, simply on the basis of its construction date?
Thank you for the confirmation of that— I thought it looked too much like a Disney Castle to be original.The part of the Ponferrada castle that is usually photographed, with the drawbridge-like main entry, the cute crenellated towers and walls, were built much much later than the Romanesque and/or Templar period anyway
I can't explain it, at least not online and in writing. I know it when I see it. When it touches me and when it's "not so much".Regional differences are way beyond my discernment capacity. I'd love to know what you are seeing that I am missing.
There is some Romanesque in the Convento do Cristo as you mentioned but the Manueline architecture in your photo and that you mostly talked about is late Gothic. Let's not confuse @C clearly even more!Templar castle in Tomar
Hey ---- look at the date I referenced--- was late GothicThere is some Romanesque in the Convento do Cristo as you mentioned but the Manueline architecture in your photo and that you mostly talked about is late Gothic. Let's not confuse @C clearly even more!
Just came across an excellent book, Rolf Toman (ed), Romanesque: Architecture, Sculpture, Painting, HF Ullmamn, 2004. IT has an instructive chapter on Romanesque building styles and individual chapters on Romanesque architecture in Germany, Italy, France, Spain and Portugal. Also a combined chapter on same in Great Britain, Scandinavia, and Central Europe. Even a chapter on Medieval church portals and their importance in the history of law. 480pp, so comprehensive, but sufficiently divided to satisfy less enthusiastic readers
I am making my way, slowly but with considerable satisfaction, through Janice Mann's Romanesque Architecture and its Sculptural Decoration in Christian Spain, 1000-1120: Exploring Frontiers and Defining Identities.
Thank you for the recommendations! I have put both in my Amazon wish list but I'm not sure which one to go for. The Mann book comes in Kindle form which might be enough to put it over the top. Has anyone read both?Just came across an excellent book, Rolf Toman (ed), Romanesque: Architecture, Sculpture, Painting, HF Ullmamn, 2004.
Has anyone read both?
There is a bit of an interesting story to the capital in the photo. So, after the excursion to the Romanesque Leaning Tower of Pisa in Italy, back to the Romanesque church of San Martin in Fromista on the Camino Frances in SpainI'll put the third one behind a spoiler because of sculptural nudity. View attachment 87965
Thank you! To answer your question, I'm an Australian who has been living overseas for nearly 20 years.PS Love yor photos -you have a real talent
And your post about Portugal---- as you now live there right now - are you an expat from the USA?
Best Wishes
T
Thank you for the explanation, that one always seemed a bit too perfect! I've been going back through my photos the last couple of days and it's interesting to how some other ones look more 'weathered' and thus are likely more authentic.What you see today in Fromista, is a copy.
Several of us have already asked @C clearly for a separate thread on that topic, and I think she will oblige once she feels comfortably well-grounded in the differences between Romanesque and Gothic.I've seen a lot of posts distinguishing Romanesque from what came afterwards (Gothic). I'm not sure I've seen any posts distinguishing Romanesque from what came before (on Caminos in Spain, Visigothic; elsewhere, I'm not sure). Can anyone shed light in that area?
Check your photos to see whether there is the letter "R" on the some of the capitals. Eleven of the 50 capitals are said to be copies, of which seven are marked with an "R".I've been going back through my photos the last couple of days and it's interesting to how some other ones look more 'weathered' and thus are likely more authentic.
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