- Time of past OR future Camino
- Too many and too often!
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The following announcement has appeared on the Roncesvalles Colegiata's Facebook page.
AVISO IMPORTANTE PARA LOS PEREGRINOS:
A partir del lunes, la Colegiata podrá ofrecer solamente las 183 camas de las que dispone el albergue. Por motivos ajenos a nosotros debemos dejar de utilizar el campamento.
POR TANTO... Una vez completada la cama 183, el resto de peregrinos deberán encaminarse a los pueblos cercanos. (Burguete, 3km).
Important notice for the pilgrims:
As of Monday, the collegiate church may only offer the 183 beds available to the hostel. For reasons for which we should stop using the camp.
So... once completed bed 183, the rest of pilgrims must aim at the nearby villages. Bohio, (3 KM).
In a response to a question posted after the announcement the Colegiata stated that this was a legal requirement which they are obliged to follow.
https://www.facebook.com/ColeRoncesvalle/
The following announcement has appeared on the Roncesvalles Colegiata's Facebook page.
So... once completed bed 183, the rest of pilgrims must aim at the nearby villages. Bohio, (3 KM).
Did look a little odd to translate a place name! Google Chrome is far from perfect but gives me an automated translation whenever I read Facebook pages in Spanish. I included the original for greater clarity for more fluent readers of Spanish.If I can add a linguistic frivolous note to this serious matter...your translation program converted Burguete (burgo pequeño) into "bohío". This gives a really tropical flavor to the name of an otherwise mountainous village.
Hemingway could have liked this.
Poor Pilgrims, I know that in 2014 when we reached Roncesvalles we were walking Zombies and we would never have made it to Burgete! Glad I am taking the Valcarlos route this time.
Why would you change your plans when you can book a bed?Should this post have me concerned? Not going to lie, I'm a little worried right now. Wondering if I should change my route.
Should this post have me concerned? Not going to lie, I'm a little worried right now. Wondering if I should change my route.[/QUOTE
No idea, after all this is all new. Contact them on line, on FB, and see with them.That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?
IMHO, it's time for people coming back for Camino #2 or 6 or 10 to walk a different path, and let the first-timers have a chance at a bed. Or start somewhere besides St. Jean or Roncesvalles. The infrastructure just can't take it any more.
That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?
The website says they recommend a sleeping bag, and that they provide paper sheets.The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?
No guesses please, just the facts.
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.
IMHO, it's time for people coming back for Camino #2 or 6 or 10 to walk a different path, and let the first-timers have a chance at a bed. Or start somewhere besides St. Jean or Roncesvalles. The infrastructure just can't take it any more.
The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?
No guesses please, just the facts.
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.
I used a sleeping bag liner when I stayed there on Friday night.The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?
No guesses please, just the facts.
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.
The website says they recommend a sleeping bag, and that they provide paper sheets.
http://www.alberguederoncesvalles.com/informacion.php?idG=1
There are two references to sleeping bags.The English language version of the website that you directed readers to says that a sleeping bag is REQUIRED, and disposable sheets are available for an extra 2 euro 50. The translation may be the cause of my confusion?
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.
Disposable towels???... The Collegiate church has disposable towels for use by pilgrims. ...
Those days are long gone. For years now, the Collegiate had and still has a note on their website that states that no locality on the Camino de Santiago is obliged to provide albergue beds for all pilgrims, in particular when there are hotel beds available in that locality. Ninguna localidad del Camino de Santiago tiene la obligación de disponer de plazas de albergue para todos los peregrinos y más si hay hoteles en la misma localidad.the Collegiate who prided themselves on never turning anyone away
Roncesvalles has more than 183 beds, even now. There is La Posada with 48 beds, Casa Sabina with 10 beds and the large Hotel Roncesvalles with hotel beds and apartment beds (same price category for both). An albergue bed is not a birthright.
Indeed. There is a tantalizing article in today's Diario de Navarro but it is behind a paywall and I can read only the first few sentences. So apparently the prior of the Colegiata gave the order that not a single person above the legal occupancy number of the albergue will be admitted as of today. It's not clear whether the overspill area is actually closed. I know that in the past there has been some friction because the Collegiate runs youth summer camps and other activities and did not inform the hospitaleros about occupancies that the Collegiate had arranged themselves.I think the main concern here is that most Pilgrims will not be aware of this change and may only find out on arriving at St Jean, or even at Roncesvalles. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.
FirstThe following announcement has appeared on the Roncesvalles Colegiata's Facebook page.
AVISO IMPORTANTE PARA LOS PEREGRINOS:
A partir del lunes, la Colegiata podrá ofrecer solamente las 183 camas de las que dispone el albergue. Por motivos ajenos a nosotros debemos dejar de utilizar el campamento.
POR TANTO... Una vez completada la cama 183, el resto de peregrinos deberán encaminarse a los pueblos cercanos. (Burguete, 3km).
Important notice for the pilgrims:
As of Monday, the collegiate church may only offer the 183 beds available to the hostel. For reasons for which we should stop using the camp.
So... once completed bed 183, the rest of pilgrims must aim at the nearby villages. Bohio, (3 KM).
In a response to a question posted after the announcement the Colegiata stated that this was a legal requirement which they are obliged to follow.
https://www.facebook.com/ColeRoncesvalle/
first timer here, is this the only place that has accomodation in Roncesvalles???Indeed. There is a tantalizing article in today's Diario de Navarro but it is behind a paywall and I can read only the first few sentences. So apparently the prior of the Colegiata gave the order that not a single person above the legal occupancy number of the albergue will be admitted as of today. It's not clear whether the overspill area is actually closed. I know that in the past there has been some friction because the Collegiate runs youth summer camps and other activities and did not inform the hospitaleros about occupancies that the Collegiate had arranged themselves.
I stayed in Roncesvalles Hotel several times, and for me, that is where the (historical etc) magic lies. Wonderfully restored and you feel that you have arrived in Spain ...
Indeed. There is a tantalizing article in today's Diario de Navarro but it is behind a paywall and I can read only the first few sentences.
the Collegiate who prided themselves on never turning anyone away
First
first timer here, is this the only place that has accomodation in Roncesvalles???
If it is Shit shit shit we are planning 2 June do u think it will be as busy or busier???
No need to panic if you plan to arrive only several weeks from now but probably wise to consider alternative plans if you intend to arrive this weekend (1 May) or during the following first two weeks of May. These have been busy periods in past years.
Great timing for this announcement ... when I was there, I wondered about the large building complex to the left of the current albergue (when you stand in the courtyard facing the albergue entrance). It looked unused and in need of renovation and I wondered whether it, too, could be turned into pilgrims accommodations. But even if possible, it would be an expensive enterprise. Creating the current modernized albergue which was opened in February 2011 had a price tag of some 6.400.000 EUR!The Prior states that the Colegiata has tried unsuccessfully to persuade the local government to take responsibility for providing adequate accommodation for the increasing number of pilgrims - a burden which does not rightly fall on the Colegiata itself.
No. The albergues are usually open by Easter. May 1st is a major public holiday for much of Europe and a lot of people plan to take a break around then.Why do so many people leave SJPdP on the 1st of May and in the next two weeks?
Is it when albergues and shops open after the winter?
It's when more and people like to go on holidays. Due to public holidays (1 May in many countries, also 8 May in some countries) and nicer weather it is a particular attractive period for people who plan to walk only a section of the way to Santiago. They are spread out later on but SJPP/Roncesvalles can be a bit of a bottleneck because so many want to start at the same time.Why do so many people leave SJPdP on the 1st of May and in the next two weeks?
@JabbaPapa, all are welcome, don't you remember these often quoted words from an old song/poem ?
They've turned me away multiple times ...
Once they even attempted to prevent me using the toilet ; and threatened to call the Police ...
No. The albergues are usually open by Easter. May 1st is a major public holiday for much of Europe and a lot of people plan to take a break around then.
This exchange reminds me of the time when I first read about the Roncesvalles albergue on an internet forum, most certainly before 2003. There was no accommodation between SJPP and Roncesvalles (Orisson gite was not yet built); Roncesvalles had 100 beds; it was cold in the building; unfriendly reception (they did not employ volunteer hospitaleros then); be prepared to have to walk to the next village. I doubted that I could do this and I did not try then. Plus ca change ....
@JabbaPapa, all are welcome, don't you remember these often quoted words from an old song/poem ?
This exchange reminds me of the time when I first read about the Roncesvalles albergue on an internet forum, most certainly before 2003. There was no accommodation between SJPP and Roncesvalles (Orisson gite was not yet built); Roncesvalles had 100 beds; it was cold in the building; unfriendly reception (they did not employ volunteer hospitaleros then); be prepared to have to walk to the next village if all beds are already occupied when you arrive. I doubted that I could do this and I did not try then. Plus ca change ....
How awful!!!I was not turned away for lack of sleeping space -- I was accused of "lying" and being a "fake pilgrim" (by a volunteer "hospitalero" BTW), even though I told them outright I was hitching back along the way after having walked 2000 KM to Santiago from home, with the giant credencial and my Compostela certificate to prove it.
How awful!!!
No, it says, in English, "WE RECOMMEND".The English language version of the website that you directed readers to says that a sleeping bag is REQUIRED, and disposable sheets are available for an extra 2 euro 50. The translation may be the cause of my confusion?
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.
Yes, I noticed that mistake. They mean sheets, if you look at the text in Spanish and French. This being sid, there are now paper sets being given out in albergues that include the sheet, pillowcase and an extra bit of paper. I had to ask what it was, and was told it was meant to be a towel ...Disposable towels???
Disposable sheets or paper towels maybe?
Well, then again disposable sheets are made of paper, hehe.
Yup, contradictory info the links.There are two references to sleeping bags.
One reference, says "A sleeping bag is required" as a comment on the Reservation page. A more detailed answer to a FAQ on the Information page has the following...
That is good to hear. I had a different experience with my Dutch compatriots. I got injured in the Pyrenees and came in limping heavily. I was assigned an upper bed (and yes, there were plenty of lower beds available). After a painful night I could hardly walk the next morning. They told me I had to leave before 8am. 'You could see a doctor in Burguete,' they adviced, 'it is only a 3 kms walk...' I managed to walk to the busstop, went to Pamplona and stayed in a very nice albergue for the next 6 nights to recover.Anyway, that does seem to be the responsibility of the Dutch hospitaleros. The two times I was there they were polite, and I remember also that one of these times they were busy making many calls, trying to get some kind of transportation for an ill pilgrim that needed hospitalisation. Just my experience.
I stayed there Easter Sunday night last week and I have only a liner.The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?
No guesses please, just the facts.
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.
That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?
When I was there in Sept 2015, they provided pads for the floor. My quilted liner sufficed.The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?
No guesses please, just the facts.
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.
Burgos is a popular starting point for those doing a "shorter" Camino. Probably many of those who made up the crowd had just arrived by public transport. I remember sitting in the Cathedral square enjoying an ice cream cone after dinner when suddenly a big glut of fresh-looking people with backpacks appeared, making a beeline straight across the plaza toward the municipal albergue. Obviously a bus or train had just arrived.I was # 184 in July of 2015. I got to sleep in the "camp". Ugh.
Glad they are closing it, but I agree that other beds should be available somehow somewhere. It always surprised me that first night there were so many, then walking for the rest of the Camino it was never an issue....until Burgos.
Burgos was my nemesis. Burgos was horrible for me to walk into, a long day then walking for miles thru the city that never seemed to end. And so many Pilgrims! So what happened in between Roncesvalles and Burgos? Everyone disappears then reappears!
Given an earlier conversation, I hope you find solace in the thought that you now know for sure that you will not have to sleep in a shipping containerNext time around, I will make other arrangements, because; Yes, it is getting very crowded, with the rising numbers!
Really? In my experience, it is more difficult to get a room at the Roncesvalles hotel than in the Roncesvalles albergue. Don't forget that this is a popular vacation area.I submit that when the three commercial lodging places at Roncesvalles are regularly booked solid and turning people away daily, the local authorities will remove the 183 pilgrim cap or will increase it. This paradigm is common across the Camino in northwest Spain.
There are norma and standards for such things around the world. So yes, better not to have people there at all than in conditions that do not meet legal requirements."There has been a complaint about the 'campamento' and now the Colegiata is no longer allowed to use the overspill of the beds due to hygienic and health standards."
So, do I get this right... it is better to have no bed and no shower than to sleep in an old bed and use an old bathroom?
What a strange world.
I read this entire thread and did not see a mention or suggestion of what is IMHO, the likely cause of the albergue being "capped" at 183 beds.
I submit that when the three commercial lodging places at Roncesvalles are regularly booked solid and turning people away daily, the local authorities will remove the 183 pilgrim cap or will increase it. This paradigm is common across the Camino in northwest Spain.
The local community wants all places of accommodation to benefit or not, equally. If I owned one of the local hotels or hostals, I would also be miffed at the albergue skimming off all comers while I had beds available, albeit at much higher cost to the pilgrim.
IMHO, it is not about accommodating pilgrims, per se. I submit this is the local folks using their authorities to effectively "hobble" the albergue to ensure that the local hostals and hotels do not have empty beds while the albergue can expand to accommodate whoever and however many pilgrims turn up.
While I may not agree with this, I well understand it.
My recommendation is to simply start in Pamplona...or get a ride from St. Jean Pied de Port in the early morning and start from Roncesvalles. You can even walk up to Orisson, to have the experience, then taxi back into SJPdP, and then hop over to Roncesvalles, and walk from there.
There is also a morning bus from just across form the hotel, into Pamplona. It passes through the villages along the way. So, you can get off anywhere and just avoid Roncesvalles. There are many ways to do it.
If anyone has been wanting to walk from St Jean/ Orisson/ Valcarlos but now is concerned. I say go for it and trust in good fortune.
Plan A is booking. No need to fret or have a plan B. And even if the booking was lost, there are always taxis to the next bed.
Hope this is up-to-date:Perhaps someone could provide a link for bus times from Roncesvalles?
My point was really not to be put off from crossing the Pyrenees if that's what you want to do. Although if plenty of people are put off, it would solve the lack of beds problem in Roncesvalles.But maybe have a Plan B in case there are no beds available
What's that saying? Trust in God but tether your Camel........
Perhaps someone could provide a link for bus times from Roncesvalles? Do they run late afternoon? Back to St Jean, or forward towards Pamplona?
I think a bit of a 'reality check' might be required here until things settle down and alternative beds are made available.
Yes there are other accommodation options at Roncesvalles, I have used them. The Hotel, the Apartments, La Posada. But these get booked too! They are not 'spare beds' as such. And they are e70+ a night (Apartments). Overall Roncesvalles is now reduced by some 200 'overflow' beds.
Are there 200 'spare beds' at Burgette? I'll go out on a limb here and suggest No....... Again, many of these will get booked/taken based on normal use.
It's all very well to say the Camino will provide, or whatever..... But in this case, it probably won't, or can't.......unless you come in lower than #183........
So I think a Plan B is just common sense. Know how to get a Bus or taxi if required. Have phone numbers of alternative places to stay.
Or quite simply........and maybe the best thing to do till it all becomes clearer........book a bed at Roncesvalles prior to starting.
Hope this is up-to-date:
personally I believe reservations are the curse of the Camino. I have never made a reservation unless traveling with companions. I do not carry a cell phone with me when do the Camino. I prefer to through caution to the wind when doing the Camino...ugh to all this.That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?
Plan A is booking. No need to fret ir have a plan B. And even if the booking was lost, there are always taxis to the next bed.
And yet, in the years 1654/1655, that's exactly what pilgrims did. I recently stumbled across the diary of one Christoph Muntzinger who went on pilgrimage from Austria to Santiago to give thanks and visit the Apostle and his diary is full of details of repeated arrangements to hire a coach or a horse for short trips between villages or towns, either on his own or with others with the same destination.If the Camino becomes a bus & taxi relay with a bit of walking between handy tourist accommodation locations, BTW almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino.
And yet, in the years 1654/1655, that's exactly what pilgrims did. I recently stumbled across the diary of one Christoph Muntzinger who went on pilgrimage from Austria to Santiago to give thanks and visit the Apostle and his diary is full of details of repeated arrangements to hire a coach or a horse for short trips between villages or towns, either on his own or with others with the same destination.
There are such precise and strict ideas of what a modern pilgrim must do that it sometimes feels like the teachings of a sect.
I have flashbacks of some of the pilgrims I shortly met or saw on the Route Napoleon, towards the end of the climb. They'd never done anything like this before, it was their first day, maybe even their first time so far way from home and on their own. And they didn't speak any of the local languages. They looked exhausted and they had not even reached Roncesvalles. Have compassion. The advice in this thread is mainly for them. The hardened repeat camino pilgrims with long lists under their forum icon will cope on their own, I'm sure.
There are such precise and strict ideas of what a modern pilgrim must do that it sometimes feels like the teachings of a sect.
Thanks for the link, I'm all booked for the 7th of May.You can book via their website at http://www.alberguederoncesvalles.com/01_reservaonline_formulario.php
Sounds like it might be wise to do so asap, or as soon as you know what day you'll be there.
Lol, and I bet she could have quoted a lot of historical references, as well as personal and family memories, to back up her claim that pilgrimage means travelling in a group and with a Catholic parish priest.A large parish group from Bavaria on their way to Santiago strolling around stretching their legs. Several people spoke with me about my journey. One lady was very insistent in telling me that I was not a real pilgrim. She got quite heated about it too. Since she and her friends were on a pilgrimage, travelling by bus with their own parish priest, then that is obviously what real pilgrims do. Anything else must by definition be wrong....
If the Camino becomes a bus & taxi relay with a bit of walking between handy tourist accommodation locations, BTW almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino.
And if being a pilgrim means needing to start sleeping outdoors again, simply to avoid the touristification, then by golly that's what we'll have to do.
We are in danger of entering the WHOISAPILGRIM territoryIt's a pil-gri-ma-ge, not a walk in the park. Plenty of other walks to choose from all over the world, according to your tastes and ability.
We are in danger of entering the WHOISAPILGRIM territory.
?
The only person I've met who did his Camino in the 1950s did no such thing -- he described walking every step, needing to talk to locals to find his way, sometimes going hungry, sleeping mostly in barns and whatnot, as an utterly stark experience.
Of course, the pilgrimage as such requires none of these things -- but what's the point of a foot pilgrimage where the use of public transport is promoted as somehow "normal" ?
Don't be silly, but don't expect foot pilgrims to be pleased about the imposition of touristification upon the basic infrastructures of this foot pilgrimage.
Nobody has suggested abolishing compassion, please don't exaggerate.
A thousand likes, @JabbaPapa.
It irks me, this taxi-ing between places, just because the distance is deemed too long or too boring or simply to get to a 'better' albergue... I saw plenty of that on the Via de la Plata.
Of course, needless to say, in case of injury, that is a totally different matter.
It's a pil-gri-ma-ge, not a walk in the park. Plenty of other walks to choose from all over the world, according to your tastes and ability.
Btw, I don't expect many people to agree with me but hey! That is my opinion.
Dear @Annie Little, dear moderators, dear everyone else: I put a "like" under the post in question to indicate that I have no objections as such. @JabbaPapa and I hail from the same continent, I daresay even from neighbouring countries, we don't communicate in our native languages with each other - so we don't put each word on scales for weighing gold in tiny quantities, as a saying goes - and although I cannot speak for him, I tend to believe that we like robust discussions as it helps to sharpen one's thoughts and to challenge one's convictions but generally hold back in respect of the forum culture.I think this is getting out of hand ...
Life and the Camino is a melting pot ... get over it ... learn ... yes maybe learn from those who are well heeled and take beds from those less off ... hard lesson but a lesson none the less ...
This is getting so complicated (...)
I think this is getting out of hand ...
[/QUOTE]I think the best option is to immediately reserve a bed in Roncesvalles for the night you will arrive.
The easier alternative would be to start in Pamplona.
Starting in St. Jean has no particular historic significance and may not be worth the problems and potential chaos that may be ahead.
I am the first one who would like to see the Disney circus on the Frances collapse. Because let's face it, it is what it is. Not a pilgrimage, a holiday. For 99% of those on it. I would love to see a limited number of people being allowed to walk every year, with a Camino Visa of somesort. And a trash police. But that is not going to happen...If the Camino becomes a bus & taxi relay with a bit of walking between handy tourist accommodation locations, BTW almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino.
And if being a pilgrim means needing to start sleeping outdoors again, simply to avoid the touristification, then by golly that's what we'll have to do.
Whole I can inderstand that point of you, my guess is that the volunteer hospies would prefer not to have dozens if not hundreds of walkers arrive at their door without a reservation hoping for a bed, when they haveall been taken up. Not booking and expencting them to help is not doing them a favour. My guess is that they thought long and hard before offering bookings.personally I believe reservations are the curse of the Camino. I have never made a reservation unless traveling with companions. I do not carry a cell phone with me when do the Camino. I prefer to through caution to the wind when doing the Camino...ugh to all this.
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