Roncesvalles to limit number of beds to 183 from Monday

[Bradypus]

The following announcement has appeared on the Roncesvalles Colegiata's Facebook page.

AVISO IMPORTANTE PARA LOS PEREGRINOS:

A partir del lunes, la Colegiata podrá ofrecer solamente las 183 camas de las que dispone el albergue. Por motivos ajenos a nosotros debemos dejar de utilizar el campamento.

POR TANTO... Una vez completada la cama 183, el resto de peregrinos deberán encaminarse a los pueblos cercanos. (Burguete, 3km).

Important notice for the pilgrims:

As of Monday, the collegiate church may only offer the 183 beds available to the hostel. For reasons for which we should stop using the camp.

So... once completed bed 183, the rest of pilgrims must aim at the nearby villages. Bohio, (3 KM).



In a response to a question posted after the announcement the Colegiata stated that this was a legal requirement which they are obliged to follow.

https://www.facebook.com/ColeRoncesvalle/

 

[Alan Pearce]

The following announcement has appeared on the Roncesvalles Colegiata's Facebook page.

AVISO IMPORTANTE PARA LOS PEREGRINOS:

A partir del lunes, la Colegiata podrá ofrecer solamente las 183 camas de las que dispone el albergue. Por motivos ajenos a nosotros debemos dejar de utilizar el campamento.

POR TANTO... Una vez completada la cama 183, el resto de peregrinos deberán encaminarse a los pueblos cercanos. (Burguete, 3km).

Important notice for the pilgrims:

As of Monday, the collegiate church may only offer the 183 beds available to the hostel. For reasons for which we should stop using the camp.

So... once completed bed 183, the rest of pilgrims must aim at the nearby villages. Bohio, (3 KM).



In a response to a question posted after the announcement the Colegiata stated that this was a legal requirement which they are obliged to follow.

https://www.facebook.com/ColeRoncesvalle/

That's nice. I get there on Monday.

Leaving from Orrison though. The camino will provide.

Speaking of Orrison, do they provide a second blanket if asked?

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

 

[grayland]

I see a serious problem in the making.
They now allow reservations.
The people leaving from Orisson and Valcarlos will arrive before those leaving from St. Jean.
It willl be difficult (impossible?) for many of those leaving from St. Jean to walk past Roncesvalles to find a bed.

Strange doings.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

IMHO, it's time for people coming back for Camino #2 or 6 or 10 to walk a different path, and let the first-timers have a chance at a bed. Or start somewhere besides St. Jean or Roncesvalles. The infrastructure just can't take it any more.

 

[Robo]

Interesting to see how this develops, as for a few months of the year 183 is clearly inadequate.
Fewer will start in St Jean?

Or it will now be the Mother of all 'Bed Races' with people running up the Hill from 4 am

I feel sorry for those who will arrive in Roncesvalles not knowing about the bed reductions.......
It's not like there are a lot of options.....

I'm sure market forces will lead to alternatives being offered......at some stage......maybe next year......

 

[natefaith]

Good to know @Bradypus and quite disturbing for the reasons mentioned above. I suppose exhausted pilgrims will need to take a taxi ahead to find a place if they can't walk. Being on the Camino does make you resourceful!

 

[Felipe]

The following announcement has appeared on the Roncesvalles Colegiata's Facebook page.
So... once completed bed 183, the rest of pilgrims must aim at the nearby villages. Bohio, (3 KM).

If I can add a linguistic frivolous note to this serious matter...your translation program converted Burguete (burgo pequeño) into "bohío". This gives a really tropical flavor to the name of an otherwise mountainous village.
Hemingway could have liked this.

 

[Bradypus]

If I can add a linguistic frivolous note to this serious matter...your translation program converted Burguete (burgo pequeño) into "bohío". This gives a really tropical flavor to the name of an otherwise mountainous village.
Hemingway could have liked this.

Did look a little odd to translate a place name! Google Chrome is far from perfect but gives me an automated translation whenever I read Facebook pages in Spanish. I included the original for greater clarity for more fluent readers of Spanish.

 

[JP]

Poor Pilgrims, I know that in 2014 when we reached Roncesvalles we were walking Zombies and we would never have made it to Burgete! Glad I am taking the Valcarlos route this time.

 

[Coleen Clark]

I was # 184 in July of 2015. I got to sleep in the "camp". Ugh.
Glad they are closing it, but I agree that other beds should be available somehow somewhere. It always surprised me that first night there were so many, then walking for the rest of the Camino it was never an issue....until Burgos.
Burgos was my nemesis. Burgos was horrible for me to walk into, a long day then walking for miles thru the city that never seemed to end. And so many Pilgrims! So what happened in between Roncesvalles and Burgos? Everyone disappears then reappears!

 

[Robo]

Poor Pilgrims, I know that in 2014 when we reached Roncesvalles we were walking Zombies and we would never have made it to Burgete! Glad I am taking the Valcarlos route this time.

Even taking the Valcarlos route, wouldn't many still hope to stay at Roncesvalles?

It will be interesting to see how this develops. If less Pilgrims start from St Jean, and more from say Pamplona, that has an economic impact on communities from St Jean all the way to just before Pamplona.

But I suspect the numbers won't reduce. The attraction of St Jean and the Pyrenees will remain.

So perhaps a short term bed race of sorts and tired frustrated Pilgrims, until something 'fills the gap'?

I wonder during peak season how many might get turned away each day. 50? 100? I'm sure Burgette doesn't have that many 'spare' beds.

 

[tpmchugh]

I read somewhere recently that last week, cant remember which day, somewhere in the region of 240 left St Jean and ts only April. This has 'chaos' written all over it. I would love to know what the legal requirement is that is forcing this on the Collegiate who prided themselves on never turning anyone away. I suppose bureaucracy ruins everything eventually. Very sad

 

[flippinkittin]

Should this post have me concerned? Not going to lie, I'm a little worried right now. Wondering if I should change my route.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Should this post have me concerned? Not going to lie, I'm a little worried right now. Wondering if I should change my route.

Why would you change your plans when you can book a bed?

 

[flippinkittin]

That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?

 

[grayland]

Should this post have me concerned? Not going to lie, I'm a little worried right now. Wondering if I should change my route.[/QUOTE

I think the best option is to immediately reserve a bed in Roncesvalles for the night you will arrive.
The easier alternative would be to start in Pamplona.
Starting in St. Jean has no particular historic significance and may not be worth the problems and potential chaos that may be ahead.[/QUOTE]

 

[Anemone del Camino]

That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?

No idea, after all this is all new. Contact them on line, on FB, and see with them.

 

[Alan Pearce]

The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?

No guesses please, just the facts.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

 

[Robo]

IMHO, it's time for people coming back for Camino #2 or 6 or 10 to walk a different path, and let the first-timers have a chance at a bed. Or start somewhere besides St. Jean or Roncesvalles. The infrastructure just can't take it any more.

My wife will be walking the CF from St Jean next year for the first time.
Should I arrange to meet her down the road in Pamplona?

 

[GettingThere]

That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?

You can book via their website at http://www.alberguederoncesvalles.com/01_reservaonline_formulario.php

Sounds like it might be wise to do so asap, or as soon as you know what day you'll be there.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?

No guesses please, just the facts.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

The website says they recommend a sleeping bag, and that they provide paper sheets.

http://www.alberguederoncesvalles.com/informacion.php?idG=1

 

[GettingThere]

IMHO, it's time for people coming back for Camino #2 or 6 or 10 to walk a different path, and let the first-timers have a chance at a bed. Or start somewhere besides St. Jean or Roncesvalles. The infrastructure just can't take it any more.

Or perhaps (I may be asking for trouble here!) for those who can afford the cost to fill up the hotels/pensiones/casas rurales, at least in places like Roncesvalles where there is likely to be extreme pressure on the albergue, and try to leave the albergue(s) for those who really can't afford to go elsewhere? I know a lot of people see the albergue experience as a valuable and memorable part of the Camino, but I would also hate to think I was taking a bed from someone who needed it, when I could afford a room somewhere nearby and they could not.

 

[grayland]

The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?

No guesses please, just the facts.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

I used a silk liner a couple of times.

The requirement is that you bring something to sleep in. They do not supply blankets (but I did see some).
They now do provide paper sheets.
They do not inspect what you intend to use for sleeping.

 

[grayland]

I am going to guess that the Pilgrim Office in St. Jean will soon be overwhelmed with attempting to overcome the problems with advising the pilgrims each day.

Most pilgrims will not know of the new rules.

 

[trecile]

My friend and I are leaving St Jean on July 4th, and spending the night at Orisson. We had already decided to continue on to Espinal the next day, and I have also reserved there. So that's two less for Roncesvalles!

 

[Stephen]

The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?

No guesses please, just the facts.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

I used a sleeping bag liner when I stayed there on Friday night.

 

[Alan Pearce]

The website says they recommend a sleeping bag, and that they provide paper sheets.

http://www.alberguederoncesvalles.com/informacion.php?idG=1

The English language version of the website that you directed readers to says that a sleeping bag is REQUIRED, and disposable sheets are available for an extra 2 euro 50. The translation may be the cause of my confusion?

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

 

[Bob from L.A. !]

Sad to hear this news, but I guess it was inevitable with so many people now hearing of the Camino. Hearing these new guidelines kind of takes some of the "carefree", non thinking out of the Camino.

 

[mark connolly]

@Coleen Clark Last year on my first camino, I got the LAST bed in camp (camp refers to the trailers outside the monastery/convent). they must have been taken away. it would be advised to book at Orrison so you can have a head start from the others going straight from St Jean to Roncesvalles. @Robo yes this could be the mother of all bed races. I believe Brierley's guide book mentions that if the alburgue in Roncesvalles is full, an alburgue in a town or two further up the camino (Burguete?) can have some one pick you up in Roncesvalles, take you to the alburgue, and drive you back to Roncesvalles the next day. This would be good to keep this thread going for the next couple of weeks to see what is exactly going on.

Last September when I did the CF, I stayed at the Bellari. Joseph the Hospitalero said at dinner the Pilgrims Office in St Jean said there were 400 pilgrims in St Jean. I didn't believe him because Roncesvalles only holds 200 approx. Anyway it could have been that half of the Pilgrims were leaving the next day and the other half were leaving the following day. So the math works out. It was also a holy year last year, so their may have been more pilgrims then average. I could go on and on about it, but that is the first rule of the camino: expect the unexpected. Again if this thread can remain active, future pilgrims can plan and/or adapt around it etc.

 

[C clearly]

The English language version of the website that you directed readers to says that a sleeping bag is REQUIRED, and disposable sheets are available for an extra 2 euro 50. The translation may be the cause of my confusion?
Alan
Be brave. Life is joyous.

There are two references to sleeping bags.

One reference, says "A sleeping bag is required" as a comment on the Reservation page. A more detailed answer to a FAQ on the Information page has the following:

6. Are there blankets, sheets or towels at the Hostel?
There are no blankets or towels. We recommend that you bring your own sleeping bag or whatever you normally use and can carry comfortably.
The Collegiate church has disposable towels for use by pilgrims. But you will need a sleeping bag in the other hostels too.

I am fully confident that a "sleeping bag liner" is acceptable. After all, it is a bag to sleep in, and the website does not specify what level of insulation is required. The point is to bring whatever you need to cover yourself while you sleep, because they do not provide it. It is also possible they prefer people not to sleep directly on the mattresses.

 

[KinkyOne]

... The Collegiate church has disposable towels for use by pilgrims. ...

Disposable towels???
Disposable sheets or paper towels maybe?
Well, then again disposable sheets are made of paper, hehe.

 

[Kathar1na]

the Collegiate who prided themselves on never turning anyone away

Those days are long gone. For years now, the Collegiate had and still has a note on their website that states that no locality on the Camino de Santiago is obliged to provide albergue beds for all pilgrims, in particular when there are hotel beds available in that locality. Ninguna localidad del Camino de Santiago tiene la obligación de disponer de plazas de albergue para todos los peregrinos y más si hay hoteles en la misma localidad.

However, as in the past, I am sure that the Dutch hospitaleros who run the albergue during spring, summer and autumn will do their utmost to help pilgrims find transportation and beds in neighbouring villages or even in Pamplona when Roncesvalles is full.

 

[Kathar1na]

Roncesvalles has more than 183 beds, even now. There is La Posada with 48 beds, Casa Sabina with 10 beds and the large Hotel Roncesvalles with hotel beds and apartment beds (same price category for both). An albergue bed is not a birthright. Contact and booking details on the Collegiate's website: http://roncesvalles.es/contenidos.php?c=16&s=139&t=&cat=&a=

BTW, the albergue Roncesvalles has accepted reservations for years, it is nothing new. In the past they accepted reservations for up to 60 beds, i.e. the majority of beds were for first come first served arrivals.

People should also be aware that there is no information about the exact reason for the current closure of the camp beds and whether it is temporary or permanent. No need to panic if you plan to arrive only several weeks from now but probably wise to consider alternative plans if you intend to arrive this weekend (1 May) or during the following first two weeks of May. These have been busy periods in past years.

 

[Robo]

Roncesvalles has more than 183 beds, even now. There is La Posada with 48 beds, Casa Sabina with 10 beds and the large Hotel Roncesvalles with hotel beds and apartment beds (same price category for both). An albergue bed is not a birthright.

Quite true. But those others beds will fill up as normal anyway.

I don't use Albergue beds from choice, but have stayed at the Apartments which are very nice.

I think the main concern here is that most Pilgrims will not be aware of this change and may only find out on arriving at St Jean, or even at Roncesvalles. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.....

Indeed it will interesting to see how things stand once they settle down.......[/QUOTE]

 

[Kathar1na]

I think the main concern here is that most Pilgrims will not be aware of this change and may only find out on arriving at St Jean, or even at Roncesvalles. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.

Indeed. There is a tantalizing article in today's Diario de Navarro but it is behind a paywall and I can read only the first few sentences. So apparently the prior of the Colegiata gave the order that not a single person above the legal occupancy number of the albergue will be admitted as of today. It's not clear whether the overspill area is actually closed. I know that in the past there has been some friction because the Collegiate runs youth summer camps and other activities and did not inform the hospitaleros about occupancies that the Collegiate had arranged themselves.

I stayed in Roncesvalles Hotel several times, and for me, that is where the (historical etc) magic lies. Wonderfully restored and you feel that you have arrived in Spain ...

 

[DeniseT]

The following announcement has appeared on the Roncesvalles Colegiata's Facebook page.

AVISO IMPORTANTE PARA LOS PEREGRINOS:

A partir del lunes, la Colegiata podrá ofrecer solamente las 183 camas de las que dispone el albergue. Por motivos ajenos a nosotros debemos dejar de utilizar el campamento.

POR TANTO... Una vez completada la cama 183, el resto de peregrinos deberán encaminarse a los pueblos cercanos. (Burguete, 3km).

Important notice for the pilgrims:

As of Monday, the collegiate church may only offer the 183 beds available to the hostel. For reasons for which we should stop using the camp.

So... once completed bed 183, the rest of pilgrims must aim at the nearby villages. Bohio, (3 KM).



In a response to a question posted after the announcement the Colegiata stated that this was a legal requirement which they are obliged to follow.

https://www.facebook.com/ColeRoncesvalle/

First

Indeed. There is a tantalizing article in today's Diario de Navarro but it is behind a paywall and I can read only the first few sentences. So apparently the prior of the Colegiata gave the order that not a single person above the legal occupancy number of the albergue will be admitted as of today. It's not clear whether the overspill area is actually closed. I know that in the past there has been some friction because the Collegiate runs youth summer camps and other activities and did not inform the hospitaleros about occupancies that the Collegiate had arranged themselves.

I stayed in Roncesvalles Hotel several times, and for me, that is where the (historical etc) magic lies. Wonderfully restored and you feel that you have arrived in Spain ...

first timer here, is this the only place that has accomodation in Roncesvalles???
If it is we are planning 2 June do u think it will be as busy or busier???

 

[Bradypus]

Indeed. There is a tantalizing article in today's Diario de Navarro but it is behind a paywall and I can read only the first few sentences.

I am relying on Google Translate to read the article but it certainly has a peevish and confrontational tone. The Prior says that anyone who objects "will be invited to address their complaints to the Government of Navarra, since we understand that we do not have to assume what exceeds our responsibility, "he explains in an e-mail."

(Y serán invitados a dirigir sus quejas al Gobierno de Navarra, dado que entendemos que nosotros no tenemos por qué asumir lo que excede a nuestra responsabilidad”, explica en un correo electrónico. )


The Prior states that the Colegiata has tried unsuccessfully to persuade the local government to take responsibility for providing adequate accommodation for the increasing number of pilgrims - a burden which does not rightly fall on the Colegiata itself. He also points to complaints made by previous pilgrims on internet sites about the "totally deplorable" conditions in the overspill accommodation: "In that sense, the prior warns the Administration that as "his request finds no justification ", he recommends" that they be prepared to explain this to the people who, in many exhausted cases and after hours of long march knock at our doors and are deferred to The Burguete or Espinal hostels.

(En ese sentido, el prior advierte a la Administración que como “su solicitud no encuentra
justificación”, les recomienda “que se preparen para explicárselo así a las personas que, en
muchos casos agotados y tras horas de larga marcha llamen a nuestras puertas y sean diferidos a los albergues de Burguete o de Espinal”)

 

[JabbaPapa]

the Collegiate who prided themselves on never turning anyone away

They've turned me away multiple times ...

Once they even attempted to prevent me using the toilet ; and threatened to call the Police ...

 

[GettingThere]

First

first timer here, is this the only place that has accomodation in Roncesvalles???
If it is Shit shit shit we are planning 2 June do u think it will be as busy or busier???

It is the only albergue, but there are also three hotels, plus more in nearby villages. There are links to the ones in Roncesvalles under accommodation at www.roncesvalles.es. La Posada, Casa Sabina and Hotel Roncesvalles. They and the albergue all take bookings. If you're concerned you could book now.

 

[Davie Blisters]

I pre-booked Roncesvalles in May 2016 as I did not know any better. As it was booked in my partners name the 'desk lady' showed me the pre-booked name list for that day - there were seven pre-booked. I guess this will grow in future!

 

[Paddington Bear]

No need to panic if you plan to arrive only several weeks from now but probably wise to consider alternative plans if you intend to arrive this weekend (1 May) or during the following first two weeks of May. These have been busy periods in past years.

Why do so many people leave SJPdP on the 1st of May and in the next two weeks?
Is it when albergues and shops open after the winter?

 

[Kathar1na]

The Prior states that the Colegiata has tried unsuccessfully to persuade the local government to take responsibility for providing adequate accommodation for the increasing number of pilgrims - a burden which does not rightly fall on the Colegiata itself.

Great timing for this announcement ... when I was there, I wondered about the large building complex to the left of the current albergue (when you stand in the courtyard facing the albergue entrance). It looked unused and in need of renovation and I wondered whether it, too, could be turned into pilgrims accommodations. But even if possible, it would be an expensive enterprise. Creating the current modernized albergue which was opened in February 2011 had a price tag of some 6.400.000 EUR!

 

[Bradypus]

Why do so many people leave SJPdP on the 1st of May and in the next two weeks?
Is it when albergues and shops open after the winter?

No. The albergues are usually open by Easter. May 1st is a major public holiday for much of Europe and a lot of people plan to take a break around then.

 

[Kathar1na]

Why do so many people leave SJPdP on the 1st of May and in the next two weeks?

It's when more and people like to go on holidays. Due to public holidays (1 May in many countries, also 8 May in some countries) and nicer weather it is a particular attractive period for people who plan to walk only a section of the way to Santiago. They are spread out later on but SJPP/Roncesvalles can be a bit of a bottleneck because so many want to start at the same time.

 

[Kathar1na]

They've turned me away multiple times ...
Once they even attempted to prevent me using the toilet ; and threatened to call the Police ...

@JabbaPapa, all are welcome, don't you remember these often quoted words from an old song/poem ?

This exchange reminds me of the time when I first read about the Roncesvalles albergue on an internet forum, most certainly before 2003. There was no accommodation between SJPP and Roncesvalles (Orisson gite was not yet built); Roncesvalles had 100 beds; it was cold in the building; unfriendly reception (they did not employ volunteer hospitaleros then); be prepared to have to walk to the next village if all beds are already occupied when you arrive. I doubted that I could do this and I did not try then. Plus ca change ....

 

[Paddington Bear]

No. The albergues are usually open by Easter. May 1st is a major public holiday for much of Europe and a lot of people plan to take a break around then.

Thank you very much! I had no idea.

 

[Bradypus]

This exchange reminds me of the time when I first read about the Roncesvalles albergue on an internet forum, most certainly before 2003. There was no accommodation between SJPP and Roncesvalles (Orisson gite was not yet built); Roncesvalles had 100 beds; it was cold in the building; unfriendly reception (they did not employ volunteer hospitaleros then); be prepared to have to walk to the next village. I doubted that I could do this and I did not try then. Plus ca change ....

Not my experience in either 1990 or 2002. Though as I walked in the middle of summer cold was not very likely to be an issue On my first visit I received a very warm welcome indeed - in marked contrast to my reception by the famous Madame Debril in St Jean who refused to give me a credencial after I confessed to being a Protestant and also as punishment for disturbing her lunch! Very sharply told to go away and ask in Roncesvalles. Nine of us sleeping in the refugio on a July evening. That was the largest group of pilgrims I encountered anywhere on that first Camino.

 

[JabbaPapa]

@JabbaPapa, all are welcome, don't you remember these often quoted words from an old song/poem ?

This exchange reminds me of the time when I first read about the Roncesvalles albergue on an internet forum, most certainly before 2003. There was no accommodation between SJPP and Roncesvalles (Orisson gite was not yet built); Roncesvalles had 100 beds; it was cold in the building; unfriendly reception (they did not employ volunteer hospitaleros then); be prepared to have to walk to the next village if all beds are already occupied when you arrive. I doubted that I could do this and I did not try then. Plus ca change ....

Oh I was not turned away for lack of sleeping space -- I was accused of "lying" and being a "fake pilgrim" (by a volunteer "hospitalero" BTW), even though I told them outright I was hitching back along the way after having walked 2000 KM to Santiago from home, with the giant credencial and my Compostela certificate to prove it.

My failure I suppose, for trying to think it was still a pilgrim refugio, not a commercial hikers' hostelry with reservations, JacoTrans, and handy bus & taxi services ...

 

[Kathar1na]

I was not turned away for lack of sleeping space -- I was accused of "lying" and being a "fake pilgrim" (by a volunteer "hospitalero" BTW), even though I told them outright I was hitching back along the way after having walked 2000 KM to Santiago from home, with the giant credencial and my Compostela certificate to prove it.

How awful!!!

 

[JabbaPapa]

How awful!!!

And on another occasion, two (far nicer) volunteer hospitaleros were actually reprimanded for offering me a bed in the hospitalero dormitory after I had been told by their boss that I could only sleep on the floor.

I have not had a single pleasant experience as a pilgrim in that place, hiking excepted.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The English language version of the website that you directed readers to says that a sleeping bag is REQUIRED, and disposable sheets are available for an extra 2 euro 50. The translation may be the cause of my confusion?

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

No, it says, in English, "WE RECOMMEND".
http://www.alberguederoncesvalles.com/informacion.php?idG=1

It says recommend in French, Spanish and English. I also do not see a mention of a fee for the paper sheets.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Disposable towels???
Disposable sheets or paper towels maybe?
Well, then again disposable sheets are made of paper, hehe.

Yes, I noticed that mistake. They mean sheets, if you look at the text in Spanish and French. This being sid, there are now paper sets being given out in albergues that include the sheet, pillowcase and an extra bit of paper. I had to ask what it was, and was told it was meant to be a towel ...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

There are two references to sleeping bags.

One reference, says "A sleeping bag is required" as a comment on the Reservation page. A more detailed answer to a FAQ on the Information page has the following...

Yup, contradictory info the links.

 

[Felipe]

It seems as a conflict between the Colegiata and the Navarra government. I am quite upset with the situation, but I also think it is good to reserve judgment until we have more context.
Anyway, that does seem to be the responsibility of the Dutch hospitaleros. The two times I was there they were polite, and I remember also that one of these times they were busy making many calls, trying to get some kind of transportation for an ill pilgrim that needed hospitalisation. Just my experience.

 

[Luka]

Anyway, that does seem to be the responsibility of the Dutch hospitaleros. The two times I was there they were polite, and I remember also that one of these times they were busy making many calls, trying to get some kind of transportation for an ill pilgrim that needed hospitalisation. Just my experience.

That is good to hear. I had a different experience with my Dutch compatriots. I got injured in the Pyrenees and came in limping heavily. I was assigned an upper bed (and yes, there were plenty of lower beds available). After a painful night I could hardly walk the next morning. They told me I had to leave before 8am. 'You could see a doctor in Burguete,' they adviced, 'it is only a 3 kms walk...' I managed to walk to the busstop, went to Pamplona and stayed in a very nice albergue for the next 6 nights to recover.

 

[cher99840]

The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?

No guesses please, just the facts.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

I stayed there Easter Sunday night last week and I have only a liner.

 

[Stivandrer]

That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?

Got a reservation this morning, my first time i SJ.
Had already booked and paid stays and buses from Madri to SJPdP. Alternatively, I would have otherwise have aborted the pursuit and started at Pamplona whereby losing the money but be further down the route.
They refer to Regulations, be it Health, Safety, Fire Danger, who knows, we´ll see when we get there..
Spoke to the evening staff Sunday on the phone and she said it is possible to book online.
Unfortunately some other poor bugger might now need a bed....

Next time around, I will make other arrangements, because; Yes, it is getting very crowded, with the rising numbers! And no there shouldn´t be so much rush...
And I hadn´t foreseen the level of planning I had to do with all these planned stays and worry that goes against grain of the spirit of Camino.
I have never booked a stay on the CF before...
Too much worrying and planning, rather than see whatever comes !! ...
Never again ...

 

[movinmaggie]

The website for the Roncesvalles albergue also says that you cannot stay there unless you have a sleeping bag. Does anyone know for sure if it HAS to be a sleeping bag, or would a sleeping bag liner suffice?

No guesses please, just the facts.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

When I was there in Sept 2015, they provided pads for the floor. My quilted liner sufficed.

 

[kayagee66]

It could be a good thing. People may have a better experience in other accommodation in Roncesvalles. The albergue was clean and friendly and big and noisy. I like the restaurant/bar that provides the pilgrim meal, but the pilgrim meal wasn't great. Their own menu/food was much better when i went there another time. I didn't bother with the breakfast that i had already paid for because there were so many people trying to get in at the same time it would have taken well over an hour to get in and get fed. I walked to the next village and had a very nice breakfast.
Next time i think i'll walk to the next place and stay the night.
Which will probably mean i'll want to keep on walking when i get to Zubiri, and i'll get to experience another place.
I feel a bit sorry for albergue and restaurant owners who are located a little way past 'major' stops, maybe they will get more business now, helping the local community. Leading to more places opening.
Every cloud...

 

[jmcarp]

I was # 184 in July of 2015. I got to sleep in the "camp". Ugh.
Glad they are closing it, but I agree that other beds should be available somehow somewhere. It always surprised me that first night there were so many, then walking for the rest of the Camino it was never an issue....until Burgos.
Burgos was my nemesis. Burgos was horrible for me to walk into, a long day then walking for miles thru the city that never seemed to end. And so many Pilgrims! So what happened in between Roncesvalles and Burgos? Everyone disappears then reappears!

Burgos is a popular starting point for those doing a "shorter" Camino. Probably many of those who made up the crowd had just arrived by public transport. I remember sitting in the Cathedral square enjoying an ice cream cone after dinner when suddenly a big glut of fresh-looking people with backpacks appeared, making a beeline straight across the plaza toward the municipal albergue. Obviously a bus or train had just arrived.

 

[Stivandrer]

I concur, start of the long hot, hot pan, with all the space for good thinking !!

 

[Jan_89]

I will take my chances and will hope that they find one bed for me..

 

[t2andreo]

I read this entire thread and did not see a mention or suggestion of what is IMHO, the likely cause of the albergue being "capped" at 183 beds.

I submit that when the three commercial lodging places at Roncesvalles are regularly booked solid and turning people away daily, the local authorities will remove the 183 pilgrim cap or will increase it. This paradigm is common across the Camino in northwest Spain.

The local community wants all places of accommodation to benefit or not, equally. If I owned one of the local hotels or hostals, I would also be miffed at the albergue skimming off all comers while I had beds available, albeit at much higher cost to the pilgrim.

IMHO, it is not about accommodating pilgrims, per se. I submit this is the local folks using their authorities to effectively "hobble" the albergue to ensure that the local hostals and hotels do not have empty beds while the albergue can expand to accommodate whoever and however many pilgrims turn up.

While I may not agree with this, I well understand it.

My recommendation is to simply start in Pamplona...or get a ride from St. Jean Pied de Port in the early morning and start from Roncesvalles. You can even walk up to Orisson, to have the experience, then taxi back into SJPdP, and then hop over to Roncesvalles, and walk from there.

There is also a morning bus from just across form the hotel, into Pamplona. It passes through the villages along the way. So, you can get off anywhere and just avoid Roncesvalles. There are many ways to do it.

I hope this helps.

 

[Kathar1na]

Next time around, I will make other arrangements, because; Yes, it is getting very crowded, with the rising numbers!

Given an earlier conversation, I hope you find solace in the thought that you now know for sure that you will not have to sleep in a shipping container . And each of us who is on the road is of course part of the rising numbers - it's not just the others or the newcomers.

As to numbers: last year, in early May 2016, there were a few days with over 320 pilgrims arriving per day. And a day in early September 2016 set perhaps a record with 399 arrivals.

Buen camino to you!

 

[Ianinam]

It is the government of Navarra who has forbidden the Colegiata de Roncesvalles to accomodate people in other places than the 183 beds in the restored part of the Monastry.

Up till today they could use much more beds when many pelgrims arrived: 40 beds in the basement, 34 beds in the so-called 'winter-albergue', 80 beds in the 'bordas' on the 'campamento' and even more beds in the old white cabins on the campamento. So on very busy days they could provide a bed for approx. 400 people. Not the best beds, and certainly not the best sanitary services, though the price per bed for these last beds were in relation to the less comfortable situation.

There has been a complaint about the 'campamento' and now the Colegiata is no longer allowed to use the overspill of the beds due to hygienic and health standards. The 80 beds in the 'bordas' are really OK, but the showers and toilets are old. The Colegiata has been waiting already for a few years for a license to build a proper sanitary building and a pilgrims' accomodation on the campamento, but this license has not been given, so up till now the pelgrims who slept there had to use the really old showers and toilets.
Also the 40 beds in the basement have such poor shower and toilet equipment, so therefore these beds cannot be used anymore.

I have been a hospitalero in Roncesvalles two times before, and will be there again next June. We hospitaleros feel very sad with these problems, and are not looking forward to having to send exhausted people away in busy times, knowing we have lots of beds which are not available due to the government .....

As for the left side of the building (somebody mentioned this): up till last year old Spanish people lived there. But there are plans to restore this part of the monastry in a few years, just like they did in 2003 with the part of the albergue which is in use now, in order to accomodate much more pilgrims in a comfortable way.
Buen Camino to you all, maybe I'll see you next June!

 

[Kathar1na]

Thank you for this excellent background information, @Ianinam! Your organisation, the Nederlands Genootschap van Sint Jacob, has just published a note on their Facebook page. I take the liberty to summarise some of it, please correct if wrong:

• there are currently 218 beds available for pilgrims; this may be not enough on busy days
• when all beds are taken, pilgrims will be directed to Burguete
• passengers on the bus from Pamplona will be informed so that they can already step off the bus in Burguete
• hospitaleros will assist as much as they can and it is hoped that the situation is resolved as quickly as possible.

And particular thanks for answering my question about the building on the left .

 

[Kathar1na]

I submit that when the three commercial lodging places at Roncesvalles are regularly booked solid and turning people away daily, the local authorities will remove the 183 pilgrim cap or will increase it. This paradigm is common across the Camino in northwest Spain.

Really? In my experience, it is more difficult to get a room at the Roncesvalles hotel than in the Roncesvalles albergue. Don't forget that this is a popular vacation area.

And doesn't the diocese own the whole lot anyway? They own the albergue and the hotel/apartments, and also La Posada. The third one, the former doctor's house and now Casa Sabina, is leased or sold to a local family, and they offer only 4 double rooms. I don't think your scenario pans out.

 

[good_old_shoes]

"There has been a complaint about the 'campamento' and now the Colegiata is no longer allowed to use the overspill of the beds due to hygienic and health standards."


So, do I get this right... it is better to have no bed and no shower than to sleep in an old bed and use an old bathroom?


What a strange world.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

"There has been a complaint about the 'campamento' and now the Colegiata is no longer allowed to use the overspill of the beds due to hygienic and health standards."

So, do I get this right... it is better to have no bed and no shower than to sleep in an old bed and use an old bathroom?

What a strange world.

There are norma and standards for such things around the world. So yes, better not to have people there at all than in conditions that do not meet legal requirements.

Can't help but think this can be good for the Frances if it limits those on it. There is only so much presure these routes can endure before getting negatively affected by the crowds.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I read this entire thread and did not see a mention or suggestion of what is IMHO, the likely cause of the albergue being "capped" at 183 beds.

I submit that when the three commercial lodging places at Roncesvalles are regularly booked solid and turning people away daily, the local authorities will remove the 183 pilgrim cap or will increase it. This paradigm is common across the Camino in northwest Spain.

The local community wants all places of accommodation to benefit or not, equally. If I owned one of the local hotels or hostals, I would also be miffed at the albergue skimming off all comers while I had beds available, albeit at much higher cost to the pilgrim.

IMHO, it is not about accommodating pilgrims, per se. I submit this is the local folks using their authorities to effectively "hobble" the albergue to ensure that the local hostals and hotels do not have empty beds while the albergue can expand to accommodate whoever and however many pilgrims turn up.

While I may not agree with this, I well understand it.

My recommendation is to simply start in Pamplona...or get a ride from St. Jean Pied de Port in the early morning and start from Roncesvalles. You can even walk up to Orisson, to have the experience, then taxi back into SJPdP, and then hop over to Roncesvalles, and walk from there.

There is also a morning bus from just across form the hotel, into Pamplona. It passes through the villages along the way. So, you can get off anywhere and just avoid Roncesvalles. There are many ways to do it.

I've walked through MANY communities in Southern Europe where the traditions of local small-scale welcome of pilgrims have been destroyed by local politicians and businessmen and their greed.

And I can't remember how many times I've nevertheless been offered a hush-hush secret bed in an ex-refugio made illegal by sundry anti-Catholics.

Bring your sleeping bag, and be prepared to sleep on concrete floors and in the fields or woods -- that is often the most Christian welcome you can hope for.

 

[kayagee66]

If anyone has been wanting to walk from St Jean/ Orisson/ Valcarlos but now is concerned. I say go for it and trust in good fortune.
The walk across the Pyrenees is a highlight of the way. I've done it twice now. 1st time in snow, sleet, and rain. 2nd time in rain and fog. I loved it both times.
The 2nd time was after walking the Via Podiensis i had another spare day in St Jean, so i walked to Roncesvalles for the fun of it and took the bus back.

 

[good_old_shoes]

I'll happily stay at a very basic (non EU standard) place if that means I can afford it and don't have to sleep out in the cold. But maybe that's just because I'm poor.

In the long term, albergues will probably go down the same path as youth hostels - used to be cheap accomodation in bunk bed/dormitories with shared bath room, but nowadays if you don't belong to a group often you can only get a single room with your own bath for about the same price as in a hotel. It will be "good value for the money", but sadly for many that means to stay at home or sleep under the stars instead.

I once visited the oldest youth hostel in the world (a museum now), they had massive wooden triple bunk beds and a large communal dining area... would have loved to stay there... sadly I'm a hundred years too late

 

[Robo]

If anyone has been wanting to walk from St Jean/ Orisson/ Valcarlos but now is concerned. I say go for it and trust in good fortune.

But maybe have a Plan B in case there are no beds available
What's that saying? Trust in God but tether your Camel........

Perhaps someone could provide a link for bus times from Roncesvalles? Do they run late afternoon? Back to St Jean, or forward towards Pamplona?

I think a bit of a 'reality check' might be required here until things settle down and alternative beds are made available.
Yes there are other accommodation options at Roncesvalles, I have used them. The Hotel, the Apartments, La Posada. But these get booked too! They are not 'spare beds' as such. And they are e70+ a night (Apartments). Overall Roncesvalles is now reduced by some 200 'overflow' beds.

Are there 200 'spare beds' at Burgette? I'll go out on a limb here and suggest No....... Again, many of these will get booked/taken based on normal use.

It's all very well to say the Camino will provide, or whatever..... But in this case, it probably won't, or can't.......unless you come in lower than #183........

So I think a Plan B is just common sense. Know how to get a Bus or taxi if required. Have phone numbers of alternative places to stay.

Or quite simply........and maybe the best thing to do till it all becomes clearer........book a bed at Roncesvalles prior to starting.

 

[Annie Little]

AND don't forget to cancel any bookings if you are not going to turn up !

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Plan A is booking. No need to fret ir have a plan B. And even if the booking was lost, there are always taxis to the next bed.

 

[ranthr]

I stayed in the albergue in the old barn in 2005 and 2007 .The first stay was the first cultural shock on my first camino. Since then I have stayed in hotelrooms in R or Burguete. As the increase in number of pilgrims exceeds can we really expect that there will be a bed for us there without having booked a bed¿

 

[Robo]

Plan A is booking. No need to fret or have a plan B. And even if the booking was lost, there are always taxis to the next bed.

100% Agreed. Book. Though Roncesvalles is rather unique in that it is a major start point (first night or start point), also a 'choke' point due to limited bed availability, and not a lot of options to 'walk on to'.......

Maybe Plan B is required when you try to book and it's full

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Perhaps someone could provide a link for bus times from Roncesvalles?

Hope this is up-to-date:

http://www.autocaresartieda.com/?scc=roncesvalles​

 

[kayagee66]

But maybe have a Plan B in case there are no beds available
What's that saying? Trust in God but tether your Camel........

Perhaps someone could provide a link for bus times from Roncesvalles? Do they run late afternoon? Back to St Jean, or forward towards Pamplona?

I think a bit of a 'reality check' might be required here until things settle down and alternative beds are made available.
Yes there are other accommodation options at Roncesvalles, I have used them. The Hotel, the Apartments, La Posada. But these get booked too! They are not 'spare beds' as such. And they are e70+ a night (Apartments). Overall Roncesvalles is now reduced by some 200 'overflow' beds.

Are there 200 'spare beds' at Burgette? I'll go out on a limb here and suggest No....... Again, many of these will get booked/taken based on normal use.

It's all very well to say the Camino will provide, or whatever..... But in this case, it probably won't, or can't.......unless you come in lower than #183........

So I think a Plan B is just common sense. Know how to get a Bus or taxi if required. Have phone numbers of alternative places to stay.

Or quite simply........and maybe the best thing to do till it all becomes clearer........book a bed at Roncesvalles prior to starting.

My point was really not to be put off from crossing the Pyrenees if that's what you want to do. Although if plenty of people are put off, it would solve the lack of beds problem in Roncesvalles.

 

[Robo]

Hope this is up-to-date:

http://www.autocaresartieda.com/?scc=roncesvalles​

Thanks. Very Handy.

WINTER SCHEDULE (From September 1st to June 30th)
RONCESVALLES PAMPLONA:
- Monday to Saturday: 09:20 h (Departure from Roncesvalles)
- Sundays and Holidays: No service

SUMMER SCHEDULE (From July 1 to August 31)

RONCESVALLES PAMPLONA:
- Monday to Saturday: 08:30 h and 11:30 h (Departure from Roncesvalles)
- Sundays and Holidays: No service


I hope the bus stop has a shelter with a roof

 

[nathanael]

That's wise. Do they fill up with reservations the day before?

personally I believe reservations are the curse of the Camino. I have never made a reservation unless traveling with companions. I do not carry a cell phone with me when do the Camino. I prefer to through caution to the wind when doing the Camino...ugh to all this.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Plan A is booking. No need to fret ir have a plan B. And even if the booking was lost, there are always taxis to the next bed.

See, though I disagree with some of Rebekkah Scott's recent long piece about the future of the Camino, this is exactly the sort of thing that I agree with her about 100%.

If the Camino becomes a bus & taxi relay with a bit of walking between handy tourist accommodation locations, BTW almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino.

And if being a pilgrim means needing to start sleeping outdoors again, simply to avoid the touristification, then by golly that's what we'll have to do.

 

[Kathar1na]

If the Camino becomes a bus & taxi relay with a bit of walking between handy tourist accommodation locations, BTW almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino.

And yet, in the years 1654/1655, that's exactly what pilgrims did. I recently stumbled across the diary of one Christoph Muntzinger who went on pilgrimage from Austria to Santiago to give thanks and visit the Apostle and his diary is full of details of repeated arrangements to hire a coach or a horse for short trips between villages or towns, either on his own or with others with the same destination.

There are such precise and strict ideas of what a modern pilgrim must do that it sometimes feels like the teachings of a sect.

I have flashbacks of some of the pilgrims I shortly met or saw on the Route Napoleon, towards the end of the climb. They'd never done anything like this before, it was their first day, maybe even their first time so far way from home and on their own. And they didn't speak any of the local languages. They looked exhausted and they had not even reached Roncesvalles. Have compassion. The advice in this thread is mainly for them. The hardened repeat camino pilgrims with long lists under their forum icon will cope on their own, I'm sure.

 

[Ron Cesvalles]

This unfortunately looks like a big problem. I would expect 400 pilgrims a day will be leaving St Jean by the end of this week.
It has been suggested on this forum to book Roncesvalles, unfortunately I believe Roncesvilles is already booked up , a friend couldnt get a reservation for April28 ,and the idea of just sending exhausted pilgrims on to Burguete is not such s good idea as I believe the limited accomodation there is already almost full.

 

[JabbaPapa]

And yet, in the years 1654/1655, that's exactly what pilgrims did. I recently stumbled across the diary of one Christoph Muntzinger who went on pilgrimage from Austria to Santiago to give thanks and visit the Apostle and his diary is full of details of repeated arrangements to hire a coach or a horse for short trips between villages or towns, either on his own or with others with the same destination.

The only person I've met who did his Camino in the 1950s did no such thing -- he described walking every step, needing to talk to locals to find his way, sometimes going hungry, sleeping mostly in barns and whatnot, as an utterly stark experience.

Of course, the pilgrimage as such requires none of these things -- but what's the point of a foot pilgrimage where the use of public transport is promoted as somehow "normal" ?

There are such precise and strict ideas of what a modern pilgrim must do that it sometimes feels like the teachings of a sect.

Don't expect foot pilgrims to be pleased about the imposition of touristification upon the basic infrastructures of this foot pilgrimage.

I have flashbacks of some of the pilgrims I shortly met or saw on the Route Napoleon, towards the end of the climb. They'd never done anything like this before, it was their first day, maybe even their first time so far way from home and on their own. And they didn't speak any of the local languages. They looked exhausted and they had not even reached Roncesvalles. Have compassion. The advice in this thread is mainly for them. The hardened repeat camino pilgrims with long lists under their forum icon will cope on their own, I'm sure.

Nobody has suggested abolishing compassion, please don't exaggerate.

 

[Luka]

I found a statement of the Dutch association, het Nederlands Genootschap van Sint Jacob. This is what it (more or less) says:

- This was a decision of the Gobierno of Navarra.
- The capacity that is left: Aterpea 183 beds, winteralbergue 34 beds (total 217).
- Compared to the numbers of 2016 this would mean that capacity won't be sufficient in about 1/3 of the days.
- Hospitaleros will stick to the rules of the Gobierno (fines are very high).
- Busses from Pamplona will be informed when the albergue is full, so new pilgrims can get off in Burguete.
- Reservations are not recommended. They have to be done 14 days prior to arrival.
- They will keep a few 'emergency beds' for 'problematic cases'.
- It is an unpleasant surprise for them as well, 'but we'll have to deal with it'.

Link to the statement (in Dutch): https://www.facebook.com/groups/SintJacobsRoute/772774892897700/

 

[Bradypus]

There are such precise and strict ideas of what a modern pilgrim must do that it sometimes feels like the teachings of a sect.

On my second Camino I came across a German bus parked by the side of the road. A large parish group from Bavaria on their way to Santiago strolling around stretching their legs. Several people spoke with me about my journey. One lady was very insistent in telling me that I was not a real pilgrim. She got quite heated about it too. Since she and her friends were on a pilgrimage, travelling by bus with their own parish priest, then that is obviously what real pilgrims do. Anything else must by definition be wrong....

 

[Caminokiwi]

You can book via their website at http://www.alberguederoncesvalles.com/01_reservaonline_formulario.php

Sounds like it might be wise to do so asap, or as soon as you know what day you'll be there.

Thanks for the link, I'm all booked for the 7th of May.

 

[Kathar1na]

A large parish group from Bavaria on their way to Santiago strolling around stretching their legs. Several people spoke with me about my journey. One lady was very insistent in telling me that I was not a real pilgrim. She got quite heated about it too. Since she and her friends were on a pilgrimage, travelling by bus with their own parish priest, then that is obviously what real pilgrims do. Anything else must by definition be wrong....

Lol, and I bet she could have quoted a lot of historical references, as well as personal and family memories, to back up her claim that pilgrimage means travelling in a group and with a Catholic parish priest.

I think it was the reference to "almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino" that triggered my response. I am fighting against these urges, though, as I know that it annoys me when a tiny singular sliver of history is misused to back up a concept ("Camino") that I perceive to be thoroughly modern. Or even post-modern, although I don't understand what that means.

PS: Bavaria is one of THE Catholic regions of Germany and I think it is probably also the German region that has more ancient pilgrimage traditions with a continuous history and use as such (instead of being revived as it happens nowadays) than all the other German regions.

 

[domigee]

If the Camino becomes a bus & taxi relay with a bit of walking between handy tourist accommodation locations, BTW almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino.

And if being a pilgrim means needing to start sleeping outdoors again, simply to avoid the touristification, then by golly that's what we'll have to do.

A thousand likes, @JabbaPapa.
It irks me, this taxi-ing between places, just because the distance is deemed too long or too boring or simply to get to a 'better' albergue... I saw plenty of that on the Via de la Plata.
Of course, needless to say, in case of injury, that is a totally different matter.
It's a pil-gri-ma-ge, not a walk in the park. Plenty of other walks to choose from all over the world, according to your tastes and ability.
Btw, I don't expect many people to agree with me but hey! That is my opinion.

 

[Kathar1na]

It's a pil-gri-ma-ge, not a walk in the park. Plenty of other walks to choose from all over the world, according to your tastes and ability.

We are in danger of entering the WHOISAPILGRIM territory .

I am a section walker (dyed in the wool, btw). One of the rules I set for myself was "every step of the way". Once, when I had to stop to take a bus back home I even crossed the road to cover the distance between the departure and arrival bus shelters to make sure my path was covered continuously. Initially, I allowed myself only public transport for travelling to and from start and end points but had to allow taxis eventually. I agonized about whether to take the ferry to cross from Blaye to Bordeaux or walk the probably less inspiring longer detour along the shore - eventually, the medieval ghosts accompanying me opted for the ferry. I'm in eternal shock about the number of people from SJPP onwards. I would have loved to have this road to myself ... but this is what I still don't get, after having followed so many messages on this forum: can I impose on other people what I like for myself, even when I'm deeply convinced that it will be good for them and everyone else?

And another thought is: the socio-economic conditions that allow so many people to walk the Camino are the same ones that create the taxis and mochila services. Can you have one without the other?

And yet another thought: the Camino de Santiago is also a cultural route. In fact, that is the main reason for a lot of the promotion and money being made available for the infrastructure. To preserve the cultural heritage and to allow people to experience it. So, no, there are not many walks around the world with the same cultural heritage. I dare say, though, that one can go on a pilgrimage nearly everywhere, especially these days where the way matters more than the destination .

 

[domigee]

We are in danger of entering the WHOISAPILGRIM territory .
?

Oops, you are right @Katharina and that is not what I meant... Impossible to express what I feel without upsetting a few, I suppose
It's not a question of being a pilgrim or non-pilgrim, simply, if you choose a crowded camino, don't complain that it is too crowded or that there aren't enough albergues etc etc Just choose somewhere else! That'll be a start in making it less crowded
Same if you choose a Camino with long distances between etapas.... : why not choose instead somewhere more appropriate?
Only my opinion, as I said, I don't expect many people to agree with me

 

[Annie Little]

The only person I've met who did his Camino in the 1950s did no such thing -- he described walking every step, needing to talk to locals to find his way, sometimes going hungry, sleeping mostly in barns and whatnot, as an utterly stark experience.

Of course, the pilgrimage as such requires none of these things -- but what's the point of a foot pilgrimage where the use of public transport is promoted as somehow "normal" ?



Don't be silly, but don't expect foot pilgrims to be pleased about the imposition of touristification upon the basic infrastructures of this foot pilgrimage.



Nobody has suggested abolishing compassion, please don't exaggerate.

I think this is getting out of hand ...

 

[Annie Little]

A thousand likes, @JabbaPapa.
It irks me, this taxi-ing between places, just because the distance is deemed too long or too boring or simply to get to a 'better' albergue... I saw plenty of that on the Via de la Plata.
Of course, needless to say, in case of injury, that is a totally different matter.
It's a pil-gri-ma-ge, not a walk in the park. Plenty of other walks to choose from all over the world, according to your tastes and ability.
Btw, I don't expect many people to agree with me but hey! That is my opinion.

I agree BUT is it worth causing ....insert your own word .... over ....

Life and the Camino is a melting pot ... get over it ... learn ... yes maybe learn from those who are well heeled and take beds from those less off ... hard lesson but a lesson none the less ...

This is getting so complicated it's enough to reduce the numbers of "learners" ... !

 

[Kathar1na]

I think this is getting out of hand ...

Dear @Annie Little, dear moderators, dear everyone else: I put a "like" under the post in question to indicate that I have no objections as such. @JabbaPapa and I hail from the same continent, I daresay even from neighbouring countries, we don't communicate in our native languages with each other - so we don't put each word on scales for weighing gold in tiny quantities, as a saying goes - and although I cannot speak for him, I tend to believe that we like robust discussions as it helps to sharpen one's thoughts and to challenge one's convictions but generally hold back in respect of the forum culture.

 

[domigee]

Life and the Camino is a melting pot ... get over it ... learn ... yes maybe learn from those who are well heeled and take beds from those less off ... hard lesson but a lesson none the less ...

This is getting so complicated (...)

Yes I agree
As for getting over it.... I am not amongst those complaining/worrying about the crowds on the CF and the lack of accommodation in Roncesvalles (or elsewhere).
I LOVE the Camino Francés, crowds and all! I didn't stay in Roncesvalles the last time, just walked on. And at least until Ponferrada, walked mostly alone in so-called over crowded Summer season.
I shall keep quiet on that subject from now on

 

[Robo]

I think this is getting out of hand ...

Hmmm. Tend to agree................ This is fast spiralling into a discussion of what is a True Pilgrim........ And they never seem to end well......

 

[Craig Fletcher]

I think the best option is to immediately reserve a bed in Roncesvalles for the night you will arrive.
The easier alternative would be to start in Pamplona.
Starting in St. Jean has no particular historic significance and may not be worth the problems and potential chaos that may be ahead.

[/QUOTE]

No historical significance? I think you need to re-read a bit about the history of SJPP.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

If the Camino becomes a bus & taxi relay with a bit of walking between handy tourist accommodation locations, BTW almost exactly as General Franco wanted it back in the 1960s, then it stops being the Camino.

And if being a pilgrim means needing to start sleeping outdoors again, simply to avoid the touristification, then by golly that's what we'll have to do.

I am the first one who would like to see the Disney circus on the Frances collapse. Because let's face it, it is what it is. Not a pilgrimage, a holiday. For 99% of those on it. I would love to see a limited number of people being allowed to walk every year, with a Camino Visa of somesort. And a trash police. But that is not going to happen...

The Frances already has luggage transport, taxis and buses. This bottle neck will not change that, and taxis and but services will not magically appear on the Camino because of the bottleneck. We keep anwering posts about "what is the best albergue" and "places not to miss". Tourism.

My response was to Robo, that these services will still be there, as they are now, if he should find himself without a bed, but firstly that because booking is allowed (tourism?) he doesn't need back up plans.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

personally I believe reservations are the curse of the Camino. I have never made a reservation unless traveling with companions. I do not carry a cell phone with me when do the Camino. I prefer to through caution to the wind when doing the Camino...ugh to all this.

Whole I can inderstand that point of you, my guess is that the volunteer hospies would prefer not to have dozens if not hundreds of walkers arrive at their door without a reservation hoping for a bed, when they haveall been taken up. Not booking and expencting them to help is not doing them a favour. My guess is that they thought long and hard before offering bookings.