Pingüigrino
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- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances, Aragones, Vasco del Interior, Baztanes. (Frances Winter, La Plata, Camino de Invierno, Mozarabe, Norte, Primitivo.)
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The link in C Clearly's post says the man's body was found in vicinity of km 58 on N135 ... that might be vicinity of col de Lepoeder (as stated in the article) but its on the Valcarlos route.
The article says the man slipped and fell into a ravine. I don't know the Valcarlos route. There is an 'exclaimation mark' indicator in Brierley's guide suggesting vigilance is required. Perhaps someone might comment if there are deep ravines located here?
Nothing indicates if the man died from injury or from hypothermia.
This tragedy could have been avoided!
http://www.diariodenavarra.es/notic...entre_valcarlos_roncesvalles_496884_2061.html
"Según indican los servicios de emergencia, la pareja de peregrinos transitaba por el Collado de Lepoeder, un tramo cerrado en épocas de mal tiempo por el peligro que conlleva ..."
"As indicated by the emergency services, the pair of pilgrims walked via the Collado de Lepoeder, closed in times of bad weather because of the danger involved ..."
It just makes me angry and sad - The route is CLOSED that is indicated everywhere in SJPdP! Why do people choose to ignore that and risk their lives and that of others (the mountain rescue)?
Please winter pilgrims closed means CLOSED! Don't risk your lives and that of others!
SY
A fellow peregrino is gone, so I hardly think it matters at this point. Unless we want to speculate--and there's no point to that.it is not at all clear to me what happened where.
The article does NOT say the route was closed, only that it is when the weather is bad. This is not the same as last winter when two people walked an officially closed route.This tragedy could have been avoided!
http://www.diariodenavarra.es/notic...entre_valcarlos_roncesvalles_496884_2061.html
It just makes me angry and sad - The route is CLOSED that is indicated everywhere in SJPdP! Why do people choose to ignore that and risk their lives and that of others (the mountain rescue)?
Please winter pilgrims closed means CLOSED! Don't risk your lives and that of others!
SY
The article does NOT say the route was closed, only that it is when the weather is bad. This is not the same as last winter when two people walked an officially closed route.
When I walked from SJPP to Roncesvalles, in May of 2012, it was rainy at 7am, then clear, but when we got to the top we could not see a meter ahead. I have only seen the statue of the virgin in pictures! But a couple had walked the route the year before and remember you had to hang right. We walked in a row, practically holding the should of the person in front of us along a very narrow path. Whe. The fog lifted I saw a sign in memory of an Asian pilgrim who apparently fell in the ravine to our right and died.
Who knew there was a ravine? Couldn't see it in the thick fog. Tens of thousands walk here every year.
And who would think there wouldn't be some sort of barrier to hold you back should you get to close to such a dramatic drop.
But that is the Camino, and instead lf feelgood movies a la Americaine perhaps these risks should be talked about a bit more.
This tragedy could have been avoided!
http://www.diariodenavarra.es/notic...entre_valcarlos_roncesvalles_496884_2061.html
"Según indican los servicios de emergencia, la pareja de peregrinos transitaba por el Collado de Lepoeder, un tramo cerrado en épocas de mal tiempo por el peligro que conlleva ..."
"As indicated by the emergency services, the pair of pilgrims walked via the Collado de Lepoeder, closed in times of bad weather because of the danger involved ..."
It just makes me angry and sad - The route is CLOSED that is indicated everywhere in SJPdP! Why do people choose to ignore that and risk their lives and that of others (the mountain rescue)?
Please winter pilgrims closed means CLOSED! Don't risk your lives and that of others!
SY
This is very sad news. Can't read Spanish so am not aware of the circumstances. Having recently returned from volunteering at the pilgrims office in SJPDP I know the mountain route known as the Route Napoleon was officially closed on November 1st and all people were to be advised to walk the Valley or Valcarlos route. Even so they should come into Ronchevalles along a well marked path. Very sad for all.Today a pilgrim have been found near Roncesvalles. He wen lost and died by hypothermia. Another one ( a woman) was rescued alive.
http://www.larazon.es/sociedad/loca...erdido-en-navarra-AN13875454#.Ttt1Ex49ODCkF7x
This tragedy could have been avoided!
http://www.diariodenavarra.es/notic...entre_valcarlos_roncesvalles_496884_2061.html
"Según indican los servicios de emergencia, la pareja de peregrinos transitaba por el Collado de Lepoeder, un tramo cerrado en épocas de mal tiempo por el peligro que conlleva ..."
"As indicated by the emergency services, the pair of pilgrims walked via the Collado de Lepoeder, closed in times of bad weather because of the danger involved ..."
It just makes me angry and sad - The route is CLOSED that is indicated everywhere in SJPdP! Why do people choose to ignore that and risk their lives and that of others (the mountain rescue)?
Please winter pilgrims closed means CLOSED! Don't risk your lives and that of others!
SY
The link in C Clearly's post says the man's body was found in vicinity of km 58 on N135 ... that might be vicinity of col de Lepoeder (as stated in the article) but its on the Valcarlos route.
The article says the man slipped and fell into a ravine. I don't know the Valcarlos route. There is an 'exclaimation mark' indicator in Brierley's guide suggesting vigilance is required. Perhaps someone might comment if there are deep ravines located here?
Nothing indicates if the man died from injury or from hypothermia.
Why not going in winter? The Camino has no season and never had (so proved by History). People and "attendance" make "seasons" (which thus gets close to the definition of "touristic season").I do worry that the popularity of the Camino is pushing people to walk outside the season. The Camino used to be deserted in winter, for good reason.
One is not supposed to be in such a position: given your story, it seems you guys walked up there a day the crest route was certainly not recommended... It's very clearly stated by institutions, the pilgrim/tourist office and by the sign-marks that at any season, Valcarlos is to be taken in case of bad weather. So, I find it already well talked about.... some sort of barrier to hold you back should you get to close to such a dramatic drop.... perhaps these risks should be talked about a bit more
Thank you.No, nowhere near it. Nothing to do with Lepoeder. Editor's mistake in one of the news articles. Likes to live on, as usual. They got lost near km58 on the road from Valcarlos to Roncesvalles when they left the road and took a wrong turn without being aware of it for some time. The path they took leads to the two Central Electrica (power stations/dams) which are also shown on the map below:
Its like the two that got lost and were found four days later, from a couple of weeks back. They set off at a time they had no hope of getting to the next stop by.
@Kathar1na, I've long been a map lover but I haven't seen the map location for the one that you posted. I plan on coming up with a camino resource and maps of this type could be useful. Would you please tell me where these online topo maps are?The path they took leads to the two Central Electrica (power stations/dams) which are also shown on the map below:
Thank you. I have to set aside further work until January but I think I can get something done by the spring CF rush.I'm looking forward to your camino resource - chapeau!
First, the loss of any pilgrim is a very sad thing, and my condolences go out to the family of the man that died. I also hope the woman that was rescued recovers, and should she want to, be able to continue her pilgrimage.Pruden, again, they did not take the Napoleon route but the Valcarlos route that was open AND got lost, according to the SJPP Office, in a place which is poorly marked. Not their fault at all.
I don't think we should speculate about what did or did not happen, nor should we attach any blame. There but for the grace of God go I.
I do worry that the popularity of the Camino is pushing people to walk outside the season. The Camino used to be deserted in winter, for good reason.
Rip. Please remember a man died. He/she who is without sin cast the first stoneToday a pilgrim have been found near Roncesvalles. He wen lost and died by hypothermia. Another one ( a woman) was rescued alive.
http://www.larazon.es/sociedad/loca...erdido-en-navarra-AN13875454#.Ttt1Ex49ODCkF7x
I agree totally David, what started out as a condolences post turned into a blame game thread. Very sad indeed.Sad news, very sad - let us not be too critical, sitting in our safe and warm homes, a pilgrim has gone, a pilgrim has gone xx
Well, that is sad news, very sad. We can say "mountains kill" but it doesn't take away from how sad this is.
They were cold and in fog and missed the trail. Seems from the reports that when they realised they were well off track they did exactly the right thing - started to retrace their tracks - and then he slipped, easily done, and fell into a ravine. What a horrid death for him if he was conscious. Injured, hypothermia, alone - my heart goes out to him (and to his family), and how scared the woman must have been - to have seen him fall and be unable to help.
Sad news, very sad - let us not be too critical, sitting in our safe and warm homes, a pilgrim has gone, a pilgrim has gone xx
@biarritzdonAfter driving the N135 many times to and from Pamplona and Biarritz and walking the route across Col Lepoeder 3 times I can understand why some one might try to find a "short cut" to get off of the paved road.
I like the suggestion by Rick of Rick and Peg to update the maps for the divergent paths however they can also be dangerous and are meant mainly for Basque (Arneguy) sheep herders. I have no idea how he can disperse this information to a general public who is inexperienced in crossing the Pyrenees.
I want to share a similar experience I had crossing the mountains from Oloron-Ste. Marie to Canfranc Estation in 2105. It was during a very wet, stormy week late in May and there were no other pilgrims on the path. As anyone who has walked that route knows the markings are very poor. I reached several sections of the trail that were covered with slimy mud next to a cliff that is well over 300 m above the raging river below. There were many recently toppled trees from a storm, needless to say it was "white knuckle" territory trying to climb over and under the damage. Several times the path ended at a pasture gate and the trail was only marked by the latest heifer who had pushed the grasses down in front of her endless, mindless grazing. Suffice it to say it would have been "very easy" to get lost in those mountains.
We should all appreciate the advice from "good_old_shoes" about being prepared for the worst. I had matches, I had a fleece and I had my not so snuggy mummy liner. I could have survived at least one chilly wet night, but even with a compass and map I was pretty helpless if it hadn't been for the fact that one can eventually find a descent down to the major highway that runs through the valley below in less than an hour.
It depends how you look at it. Has he got the right to put other people's lives in danger rescuing him.You make your choices and live with the consequences, or dont as in this case.
SYates, people break rules, laws, etc, all the time. It wont stop. While I feel for the family, this person most likely knew what he was getting himself into. Its like the two that got lost and were found four days later, from a couple of weeks back. They set off at a time they had no hope of getting to the next stop by. The consequences were less severe in that case, but could have been just as bad. People do dumb things, but its their right for the most part. Sometimes you walk away, sometimes you dont.
I think the other pilgrim rescued earlier, a woman, was treated for hypothermia. From what I understood, the male was from Spain, she was Chinese, and while they had both been lost together at some point, I don't know if/how they knew each other....perhaps met on the road, or followed one another into being lost.
I read one that said Valcarlos rescue teams, another that they were on Col Leopolder...
perhaps we should just be sad for the loss until other details are known about where they were and what they were doing.
since we know from multiple other threads on this forum, the high road is closed now for five days. so yes, it was closed, no matter what the weather was or predicted. But we don't know they were on it. I agree the weather changes rapidly, and sometimes we can get caught unaware if travelling on Napoleon when it is opened. But if someone travels on it when it is closed, as it is now (and we do not know that was the case with these walkers), they do put themselves and much more importantly, others, at risk.
Those photos are good illustrations. They show how the conditions are not normally "scary" but do require some care, and how in bad weather conditions one could get into trouble.If you are considering this way for the first time, don't be afraid: in normal conditions the section between Valcarlos and Roncesvalles is safe. Most of the path is quite wide for two walkers (see photo); you just need to be careful.
If you are considering this way for the first time, don't be afraid: in normal conditions the section between Valcarlos and Roncesvalles is safe. Most of the path is quite wide for two walkers (see photo); you just need to be careful. A steep climb after Gainekoleta has a wooden rail. It is more hilly than mountain country.
It is also reasonably signposted; some stone markers, other signs on trees or stones.
I hesitated only in one place, where we should turn right to meet the paved road, walk 100 meters along it, and find the following path (where there is a source with a "no potable" sign, see below).
The paved road was always at my right; not close, but I could actually heard the noise most of the time.
I did it in late March, with cold and some light rain. it was muddy, but not particularly difficult.
Many pilgrims prefer to walk the paved road, all the way. This is probably the good option with real bad weather or fog (and there is a section where we have to walk necessarily along it, after Valcarlos). There is not a sidewalk/pavement/footway, and if you walk as rules specify (opposite to traffic), you will be sometimes between the road and a cliff (but there is a guardrail). There was not a heavy traffic, just some cars or slow trucks from time to time. Drivers were friendly, truck drivers especially waved to me. I did not feel it as particularly dangerous, but caution in the roads is always a must.
Buen (and safe) Camino!
d.
Sad weekend for the peregrinos,do take care when you walking the Camino
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