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I think there are three main types of camping scenarios:Last year in July, when we went on the Camino Norte + Primitivo, we took a light tent and mat. I come from the Czech Republic, which is a country of camping, sleeping outside is legal (unless you are in a natural park) here even outside of designated camps, it has been a cultural thing that emerged during the dark times of socialism between 1948-1989 as people could be out of sight and sing American country songs. So, it is unthinkable that someone would call police on people camping in the nature even if it was in an ilegal spot these days, unless they do something naughty.The conditions here are perfect for camping, we have a great net of lakes, a lot of the land is still controlled by the state, so it is maintained, since we are young we learn how to make fire responsibly etc...
Now back to Spain, it was actually nearly impossible to find a place to camp. I am not even talking about having access to some natural source of water. A lot of land in Spain is private and kept unmaintained. Throughout the 500km we saw just a couple of places that would be suitable for some form of camping, yet we usually passed them at a wrong time. We ended up sleeping outside only once near a beach, as it was around 8PM and the albergues and hotels within reasonable distance were full.
So even if camping will become fully legal, the conditions will be an obstacle. I have walked over 1700km on different caminos and as an avid wild camper I just have this reflex of checking if a spot is suitable, and yet I have not found many suitable places for camping. Last week we went for a weekend in nature with 3 close friends to a completely new area and within 10 minutes we found a great spot for camping with source of water so we can filter it for drinking and cooking. That will always be hard on the camino as you want to stay near the route.
In my honest opinion it's not a issue.That is the issue. Many simply do not envisage feeling safe sharing with strangers in an albergue for a long time to come.
Well the plane trip is only two times. Two periods of extensive exposure, currently with masks required to be worn. You’re talking about 35 nights on the Camino Frances, and you’re not going to be able to keep a mask on when you’re sleeping.In my honest opinion it's not a issue.
How come people to Spain , most off them take a plain full with strangers.
What's the difference????
Not feeling safe? Give me a break. You sit on planes, trains, buses etc.with a bunch of a"Pay your fees to the albergues for staying safe ...."
That is the issue. Many simply do not envisage feeling safe sharing with strangers in an albergue for a long time to come. This is why camping along routes is something many want taken far more seriously than it appears to have been done. Actions at all levels in a timely, planned manner to make it happen when routes are available is the best way forward for everyone.
Apparently not, based on the posts so far.Any gentle, encouraging words or support from central government to regional governments? Any gentle, encouraging words or support to towns, villages or albergues from regional governments? Any towns, villages or albergues announced anything which might be considered 'progress' on the issue of camping .... ?
Very interesting article, and explains a lot about the problems of wildcamping.Here is recent article in French re ad hoc camping/walking bivouac randonnees in the French Pyrénées which might give you some helpful tips in general.
...though possibly not your breath.None that I’ve seen but hope is worth holding
Interesting article. Thanks for this post!Here is recent article in French re ad hoc camping/walking bivouac randonnees in the French Pyrénées which might give you some helpful tips in generaL
I think this is a great idea to camp where albergues have room and of course pay a fee with access during the night to their bathrooms is the way to go and a win/win for both pilgrim & hospitalero if it is possible. Not all hikers who camp are ignorant of the "leave no trace" policy. One thing I must mention is that my last camino in 2017, I took doggy bags to leave no trace but when I ran out I was unable to purchase any anywhere - do they sell them & if so where?All I know about camping in Spain (apart from proper camping sites which as mentioned above are few and far between on the Camino!)* is asking an albergue with a garden if you can pitch your tent. You still have to pay but you can share the facilities (shower etc).
* I only remember two, one near Roncesvalles and the other one near Santiago.
"Pay your fees to the albergues for staying safe ...."
That is the issue. Many simply do not envisage feeling safe sharing with strangers in an albergue for a long time to come. This is why camping along routes is something many want taken far more seriously than it appears to have been done. Actions at all levels in a timely, planned manner to make it happen when routes are available is the best way forward for everyone.
I would be more than happy to pay the full Albergue fees ( I wouldn't think to suggest otherwise) and just in times of covid stay in a tent as well BUT I have to admit I am really looking forward to staying a couples room with my hubby in your new Albergue - it's marked on my list and we are hoping to see you in 2021.My suggestion would then be to go somewhere where you do feel safe rather than expect Spain to accommodate your need to camp along the Camino. The Camino is not a thru hike, it is a pilgrimage from town to town. There are limitless other places with good camping facilities.
And regarding safety, albergues must follow Covid safety guidelines governing hygiene and limited occupancy which require(d) an investment above and beyond their usual fixed costs. IMHO it would be sad to see more albergues closing and campgrounds popping up along the Camino.
Thanks for your comment. I am actually back in The Netherlands but the albergue is opening as is now run by a Dutch couple.I would be more than happy to pay the full Albergue fees ( I wouldn't think to suggest otherwise) and just in times of covid stay in a tent as well BUT I have to admit I am really looking forward to staying a couples room with my hubby in your new Albergue - it's marked on my list and we are hoping to see you in 2021.
You may have never dealt with Spanish burocracyIt doesn't take a huge reorganisation of national infrastructure to allow or facilitate camping along the Ways, just a realisation that sadly, things aren't going to be the same again for a while, much as we'd like it to be, so some tweaks would be prudent. What I'm slightly puzzled by, is that none seem forthcoming by anyone at any level, or if they are, they've been remarkably well hidden.
What I'm slightly puzzled by, is that none seem forthcoming by anyone at any level, or if they are, they've been remarkably well hidden.
You kow by now that wild camping is not allowed in Spain but I know three parts off Spain where you can .What I'm slightly puzzled by, is that none seem forthcoming by anyone at any level, or if they are, they've been remarkably well hidden.
Absolutely. I love camping but.... never thought Spain was suitable, certainly not on the Caminos...I know that there are a lot of people who like to camp, but perhaps a more camping friendly destination would be more suitable.
I don't think everyone's "NEEDS" will ever be met. One of my "needs" would be to not see the mess that people already leave behind, let alone if they were allowed to wild camp along the routes.Totally agree. Those who are happy can stay in albergues and that's fine if they are comfortable with that. Some of us keen to explore safer options to doing Caminos again would benefit from updates on where the camping conversation started a year ago on both a macro level and a local one have gone.
It's really all about making sure that everyone's needs are met, rational in some eyes or not, and making sure as much money as possible can once again be pumped into all Spanish stakeholder businesses by pilgrims along the different Caminos. I'm just surprised there isn't a more energetic conversation going on at different levels in Spain, with action.
Wild camping is surely extremely counterproductive to supporting the Camino economy. It is a contradiction. You deprive albergue owners, who often struggle to make ends meet by their offer to us pilgrims, of a mere ca. 10 Euros for their offer of a bed, restrooms, heat, kitchen services, maybe a cheap communal dinner at a welcoming price, wine included, socializing, comfort in a house, & more, to you. All for a mere nominal fee, which no hostal/hotel or others can compete with.It's really all about making sure that everyone's needs are met, rational in some eyes or not, and making sure as much money as possible can once again be pumped into all Spanish stakeholder businesses by pilgrims along the different Caminos.
I'm not sure exactly what you are envisaging. It sounds like you want new camping areas with sanitary facilities all along the 800 km of the Camino Francés, which is under multiple local and regional jurisdictions, and possibly other Camino routes? And you want them available within the next few months?I've not mentioned wild camping. It's about asking stakeholders to at least discuss providing camping facilities and making allowances along the Ways in a Covid world, so that responsible not wild camping can happen.
With an open mind on the issue I am sure a solution can be found.
There was a similar earlier thread. I think what is desired is a network of small camping sites, fashioned after the albergue/dormitorio network. And the idea behind it is the reasoning that post-Covid-19 pilgrims don't want to share dormitories but they don't want to switch to private rooms either, they want to camp instead, and besides, the locals will be happy with every cent that they can earn thanks to these new options of accommodation for campingrinos.it seems to me that there already is a solution
You have listed eight designated camping areas on the Frances. That's a great start, but for a typical 30-40 day walk if doing it all, there would still be many nights to consider needing to stay in an albergue or else wild camping.
This reminds me ... I think you could camp on the site of the Roncesvalles albergue/compound and you could camp on the site of the gîte Orisson years ago but both is no longer allowed. Or has anyone seen tents or camped there in the last three to four years or so?A similar argument could be heard, btw, when the Roncesvalles albergue was forced to reduce their offer of beds (for regulatory/sanitary reasons) a few years ago. The regional government argued that there were enough beds available in the private sector in and around Roncesvalles.
I think what is desired is a network of small camping sites, fashioned after the albergue/dormitorio network. And the idea behind it is the reasoning that post-Covid-19 pilgrims don't want to share dormitories but they don't want to switch to private rooms either, they want to camp instead, and besides, the locals will be happy with every cent that they can earn thanks to these new options of accommodation for campingrinos.
Last time I saw someone camping on the grass of the Roncesvalles albergue was 2012.This reminds me ... I think you could camp on the site of the Roncesvalles albergue/compound and you could camp on the site of the gîte Orisson years ago but both is no longer allowed. Or has anyone seen tents or camped there in the last three to four years or so?
Thanks for the info., I had no idea there were that many.Well I do not know what is exactly desired by the OP.
All I know is there are plenty of campings in towns along the Frances, which cater the needs of:
- those preferring camping anyway
- those not wanting to share dormitories and not wanting to switch to private rooms.
This at least ticks two boxes. True, existing campings are not fashioned after the albergue network. But as far as I know, the camino was never meant to fulfill all desires one can possibly have.
Just to add. In June 2020 a list of albergues (including camping options) on the Camino Frances was added to the resource section on this forum.
As for albergues allowing pilgrims camping on their grounds. On the Norte this is often possible. On the Frances maybe less so, but there have been threads on this forum about this.
I guess my general message remains the same: that a lot is possible (although possible not everything that one is desiring for).
Thanks for this useful information. I was wondering about camping during the Norte. Don't think I'll be attempting that one now!Last year in July, when we went on the Camino Norte + Primitivo, we took a light tent and mat. I come from the Czech Republic, which is a country of camping, sleeping outside is legal (unless you are in a natural park) here even outside of designated camps, it has been a cultural thing that emerged during the dark times of socialism between 1948-1989 as people could be out of sight and sing American country songs. So, it is unthinkable that someone would call police on people camping in the nature even if it was in an ilegal spot these days, unless they do something naughty.The conditions here are perfect for camping, we have a great net of lakes, a lot of the land is still controlled by the state, so it is maintained, since we are young we learn how to make fire responsibly etc...
Now back to Spain, it was actually nearly impossible to find a place to camp. I am not even talking about having access to some natural source of water. A lot of land in Spain is private and kept unmaintained. Throughout the 500km we saw just a couple of places that would be suitable for some form of camping, yet we usually passed them at a wrong time. We ended up sleeping outside only once near a beach, as it was around 8PM and the albergues and hotels within reasonable distance were full.
So even if camping will become fully legal, the conditions will be an obstacle. I have walked over 1700km on different caminos and as an avid wild camper I just have this reflex of checking if a spot is suitable, and yet I have not found many suitable places for camping. Last week we went for a weekend in nature with 3 close friends to a completely new area and within 10 minutes we found a great spot for camping with source of water so we can filter it for drinking and cooking. That will always be hard on the camino as you want to stay near the route.
Forgive my ignorance, I was always under the impression that one can camp, cowboy camp, 100 yards from the trail, practicing LNT principles anywhere on the Camino, within reason, and away from urban, cities and military areas etc. It actually even is stated in many guidebooks, including Anna Dintaman’s popular Village to Village guide. I have attached a screenshot —Any gentle, encouraging words or support from central government to regional governments? Any gentle, encouraging words or support to towns, villages or albergues from regional governments? Any towns, villages or albergues announced anything which might be considered 'progress' on the issue of camping .... ?
Where does the author say that wild/free camping is allowed? She cites some situations where camping is explicitly forbidden (under Spanish national law) and conveniently omits to add that camping is totally prohibited under the law of autonomous regions such as Navarra and Galicia, and subject to local rules and permits such as in La Rioja, and Castilla y Leon has yet another set of rules - the Camino Frances runs through all these regions.I was always under the impression that one can camp, cowboy camp, 100 yards from the trail, practicing LNT principles anywhere on the Camino, within reason, and away from urban, cities and military areas etc. It actually even is stated in many guidebooks, including Anna Dintaman’s popular Village to Village guide. I have attached a screenshot
I am very much with you on this.wow - as someone who has wild camped my whole life in many european and asian countries - I cannot quite believe how many people seem to think it is irresponsible and creates mess in ANY way at all...!
The whole point of wild camping is that you only leave footprints and take memories....
There is NO excuse for not burying any biodegradable waste and disposing of recyclable waste in the normal places and 'if' you have any other waste - binning it...! It is obvious to not have fires where it is unsafe - if you are unsure - don't.
Probably most people never know when someone has wild camped - because there is no sign. If seen when you are actually setting up or down - in all my 55 years I have never been asked to move or had anyone be anything less than concerned about me.... most people - farmers/locals/hikers/dog walkers - are always keen to help or advise on the route ahead - that is the same in every country and on pilgrimage routes, hiking routes, cycling routes...etc
Can we please be a little less judgemental about other peoples actions and look to ourselves - Caminos are often filthy with pilgrim-discarded litter - that is from the pilgrims staying in albergues and/or hotels who think it is easier to chuck it than carry it - why not censure those who actually cause mayhem instead of the ones who most likely don't - - those who just want to lie down and sleep.... is it too much to ask...?!
I don't think anyone is saying that "nothing must change when Spain opens up, we must ignore the risks the pandemic brings, pretend everything is okay" and I'm not sure that is a fair way to characterize the views of everyone who does not enthusiastically embrace camping as the solution to all of the pandemic problems of the future. (See, now you know how it feels to have sweeping and unfair generalizations made from your words.)Some good points here. I'm not sure how the conversation went from asking stakeholders at all levels in Spain to have calm, measured conversations about the feasibility of providing access to camping facilities and promoting responsible camping to help while Covid is with us, to one on wild camping! But hey ho. Such are forums.
Even if the outcomes of conversations are, we can't do it for reasons X, y and z, at least it has been thought about. I get the impression it's just not being discussed.
I really don't get some posts, though. Here we are in a dreadful pandemic, and it appears some posts are saying that nothing must change when Spain opens up, we must ignore the risks the pandemic brings, pretend everything is okay, that no conversations should be had that just might help e.g. on camping, that the status quo of previous years must be maintained come what may.
What is wrong with gently and politely asking anyone and everyone involved at all levels on all Caminos to have a think about camping, as a lot of people have asked about it? There might be some gems of ideas out there!
Sadly, I think you belong to a minority. Those campers who leave no trace. Look around you.... Those pilgrims you mention who discard litter, can you imagine the damage should they choose wild-camping?wow - as someone who has wild camped my whole life in many european and asian countries - I cannot quite believe how many people seem to think it is irresponsible and creates mess in ANY way at all...!
The whole point of wild camping is that you only leave footprints and take memories....
There is NO excuse for not burying any biodegradable waste and disposing of recyclable waste in the normal places and 'if' you have any other waste - binning it...! It is obvious to not have fires where it is unsafe - if you are unsure - don't.
Probably most people never know when someone has wild camped - because there is no sign. If seen when you are actually setting up or down - in all my 55 years I have never been asked to move or had anyone be anything less than concerned about me.... most people - farmers/locals/hikers/dog walkers - are always keen to help or advise on the route ahead - that is the same in every country and on pilgrimage routes, hiking routes, cycling routes...etc
Can we please be a little less judgemental about other peoples actions and look to ourselves - Caminos are often filthy with pilgrim-discarded litter - that is from the pilgrims staying in albergues and/or hotels who think it is easier to chuck it than carry it - why not censure those who actually cause mayhem instead of the ones who most likely don't - - those who just want to lie down and sleep.... is it too much to ask...?!
Sadly that is the problem. It is not the act of wild camping, but those who do not do it properly, especially in greater numbers, that is the problem.Look around you.... Those pilgrims you mention who discard litter, can you imagine the damage should they choose wild-camping?
This has become so true in the US. We took our boys camping on weekends and most vacations growing up, and have great memories of enjoying nature, ending with evening campfires. We finally gave up camping several years ago for the very reasons you mention, huge rigs on concrete slabs lined up like sardines with few spots allowed for tents or pop-ups. In addition, it is rarely allowed to collect your own wood in the forest which our kids loved,but it now must be purchased from the campgrounds.At one time folk were happy with little more than patch of grass, and maybe a toilet. But it's rare to find simple sites now, as the modern camper demands more and more, often for tents or pods to be available and the patch of grass is covered more and more in concrete and facilities
I think you have described my train of thought well in how I could see the provision of camping as a means of sleeping.I generally love staying in albergues and it would be my first choice on a Camino; you get to enjoy the afternoon shower and snooze, the evening sun, wander and wind-down, often great food and wine, top company, making new friends, relaxing. I will miss that.
I'll have my second jab soon but even after that, no way would I share an albergue dorm for the foreseeable unless everyone in the dorm had been vaccinated, and had to show proof. It's just reckless to do that for all the obvious well-discussed reasons. Which is why camping could be an option for those who enjoy it. The Government's role, Fernando Valdez's role, surely is simply to kick-start conversations, encourage people, businesses, local Camino organisations, individual albergues, local councils etc etc to think about it, talk about it! But it's not happening?
I've stayed in many albergues where a free standing tent could be pitched. In other places, towns and smaller villages, perhaps there's an opportunity to allow people to use showers and toilets in homes, bars, other places for a fee and then camp on the outskirts and bring in some money. As I repeatedly keep saying, I'm not suggesting wild camping. I'm talking about stakeholders at whatever level being encouraged to talk about the idea for where they are and their particular circumstances, to ask questions, to see if basic camping facilities of some sort could be an option, even short term, to re-energise Caminos, help get money back into businesses, help spread people's sleeping arrangements out, reduce risks etc.
No one is talking about a camping free for all. I'm not at all for wild camping in Spain, as personally, I think the risks of e.g. a reckless few lighting fires or leaving poo and litter isn't worth it. It's about adapting to a situation that is new, that none of us wanted or wants. It's about not just waiting for the old ways to return and refusing to talk about what needs to change or be adapted!!
Wow, I thought there would be innovation along the Camino. I have always seen camping as a way out of the "enclosed space with many people inside (to avoid virus super spreaders)". By camping, pilgrims can rest for the day while still following health protocols like social distancing and isolating oneself and still have peace-of-mind.
It appears, however, that here, camping means "wild camping" only. I was thinking of organized camping, where one pays a certain fee. There are tent spaces, toilet, bath, cooking facilities, and picnic tables ... and even charging stations for electronics; so many combinations.
This will need lots of open space, different but familiar management skills, and new or adjustment of existing facilities. All of these are not unavailable, I believe.
Just mho, if folks don’t envisage feeling safe then it’s probably best for them to just stay home. People seem to want to always be accommodated no matter the cost."Pay your fees to the albergues for staying safe ...."
That is the issue. Many simply do not envisage feeling safe sharing with strangers in an albergue for a long time to come. This is why camping along routes is something many want taken far more seriously than it appears to have been done. Actions at all levels in a timely, planned manner to make it happen when routes are available is the best way forward for everyone.
Of course. That is why the OP and others have asked the question - so they can assess whether they would feel safe with the available accommodation. That is quite wise, and is what everyone needs to do when making a decision to leave home or not.Just mho, if folks don’t envisage feeling safe then it’s probably best for them to just stay home. People seem to want to always be accommodated no matter the cost.
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