Lydia Gillen
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances 2007/8/9, 2011 , 2012/13/14. C.F 2015
Camino Portugues 2017,2018,2019
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Oftentimes on the Camino when there are people of several nationalities present English is used as the common language, which is of great advantage to those of us for whom English is our mother tongue.
Out of courtesy for those for whom English is not their mother tongue we should make an effort to speak clearly and a little more slowly than usual. We should also be careful to use plain English rather than colloquialisms or slang. This would require little effort on our part, but could mean a lot to others present.
Oftentimes on the Camino when there are people of several nationalities present English is used as the common language, which is of great advantage to those of us for whom English is our mother tongue.
Out of courtesy for those for whom English is not their mother tongue we should make an effort to speak clearly and a little more slowly than usual. We should also be careful to use plain English rather than colloquialisms or slang. This would require little effort on our part, but could mean a lot to others present.
Yep, would'n it be grouse to rite proper to cos their mite be some ESL peeps hear on the forum!So yeah we English speakers are lucky...
and to add to these good thoughts regarding public speaking, having spoken to numerous organizations and groups throughout my past career(s) - do ask if people can hear you. If they respond "We can't hear you" then crank it up. I tutor English with children of an international Canadian charity I support. I can tell you, it can be a humbling experience, given some of the questions that are asked of me. They definitely keep me on my toes. I'm a strong believer in learning at least some basics of the language of the country where you are a 'guest'.I completely agree. This is something I learned to do when I worked for a large multi-national company. The language of business was of course English and I was at an advantage compared to my non English speaking European colleagues. I did notice very soon after joining that company that many non English speakers had to put in a lot of effort to communicate in English and the least I could do was to listen patiently and to respond clearly and just a little bit more slowly than usual. I also learned that for public speaking clearly and a little bit more slowly than normal does the trick. So yeah we English speakers are lucky in so many ways and I think it is very helpful and respectful towards others to extend to them the courtesy to listen carefully and respond clearly.
Howdy how ya all do in.Excellent advice, Lydia!
It's something to keep in the back of the mind also when speaking to people from elsewhere who do have English as their mother tongue. I've travelled a bit and generally have no trouble, and, like Mark, take a delight in the various "isms". But a month or so back I watched a bit of the film "Coalminer's Daughter", the story of Loretta Lynn. For the first three quarters of an hour I couldn't understand a single word!
Some Australian friends travelling by ship to UK in around 1949 stopped off in Durban, South Africa. A shop attendant, after dealing with their purchases, asked where they were from and remarked "You speak remarkably good English for foreigners!"
I didn't have any trouble on my Camino. Very few pilgrims and very few spoke English, so they had to tolerate my execrable attempts at Spanish, which, particularly the locals, they did with kindness and good humour (especially the ones I was buying something from!).
And let's not forget, there is only one person in the whole world who speaks English without an accent. The lady who owns the language (it's the Queen's English!).
De Colores!
Bogong
Sometimes we Irish people can unwittingly confuse others for whom English is also their mother-tongue by the use of Hiberno-English sentence constructions. A prime example is the grammatical after-perfect or immediate perfective. For instance: "I am just after coming from Pamplona". Every Irish person will know what is meant but the use of "after" will sound odd, if not confusing, to other English speakers. Better to say: "I have just come from Pamplona". There is nothing incorrect in the Hiberno-English use of "after" - it is just not part of the standard English spoken in the UK, the USA, Canada and other English speaking countries. It derives from the Irish language which was once widely spoken in Ireland but no longer is. Irish grammar norms found their way into the way English was spoken in Ireland and they have survived to this day.
Incidentally, when on the Camino my standard greeting is "Good Morning" or "Good Afternoon" rather than "Hola!". This is not to disrespect the language of the country through which I am walking or the majority of pilgrims who are Spanish - it is simply to advertise the fact that I am an English speaker and it can result in conversations with other walkers that might not otherwise happen.
The use of "after" as in: "I'm just after telling you" is quite common in the Eastern Maritime Provinces of Canada...particularily Newfoundland
Incidentally, when on the Camino my standard greeting is "Good Morning" or "Good Afternoon" rather than "Hola!". This is not to disrespect the language of the country through which I am walking or the majority of pilgrims who are Spanish - it is simply to advertise the fact that I am an English speaker and it can result in conversations with other walkers that might not otherwise happen.
I'm saying nothing I'm Glaswegian !
That would be due to the significant Irish emigration to those parts of Canada. The Irish language was widely spoken in Newfoundland up to the end of the 19th century and clearly, as in Ireland, many Irish language grammatical constructs have found their way in the English spoken there today.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language_in_Newfoundland
On the Camino Frances 2012 I was basically a mime artist and pointed myself across Spain.Sorry, could you repeat that?? I didn't quite understand you.
I doubt they are confused. I'd often say "hola" and the hospitalero / waitress would shift to English immediately.When I remember to do it, I try to say "hola-hello" to respect both the host language + to give a clue as to my native tongue.
Robert MacNeil was a favourite of mine. If I recall, this was also a PBS television series.Years ago I read a very interesting book, The Story of English, by Robert MacNeil, which deals with the evolution of English in different parts of the world. No doubt I am biased, but I found the most interesting chapter was the one on English in the West Indies.
Yes, my neighbour, from whom I borrowed the book, mentioned that.If I recall, this was also a PBS television series.
My step mother (she's from Edinburgh) suggested I visited a pub called the Babbity Bowster whilst visiting Glasgow. I got off the train in Glasgow and had to ask for directions. The only person that knew where it was happened to be a drunk, toothless Glaswegian. Listening to his directions was a challenge to anyone regardless of their native tongue. He made Russ "see you Jimmy" Abbot sound posh!I'm saying nothing I'm Glaswegian !
I've traveled a bit in Canada and am used to seeing bilingual signage in English and French, but when visiting the Maritime Provinces I was surprised to see signage in parts of Nova Scotia posted in English and Gaelic. Then it dawned on me...what does "Nova Scotia" mean?That would be due to the significant Irish emigration to those parts of Canada. The Irish language was widely spoken in Newfoundland up to the end of the 19th century and clearly, as in Ireland, many Irish language grammatical constructs have found their way in the English spoken there today.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language_in_Newfoundland
While I've lived in Colorado for many years, I grew up in Texas and still speak that language fluently. In fact, I spent an hour or so one afternoon in Atapuerca teaching a delightful English lady to speak Texan -- things like "Sqweet" (let's go eat), "Ah reckon" (I suppose), "Ah'm fixin' to" (I'm getting ready to), plus the intricacies of adding mandatory extra syllables to one-syllable words and the subtle differences between "y'all" and "you all."... that being said, I will act as an interpreter between my Southeast Texas wife and others.
As a native Spanish speaker, I would say that I enjoy colloquialisms and slang pretty much. When I don't understand, I ask, and usually this results in a good talk about nationalities and cultures over a café con leche.
On the other side, the Spanish you can hear in the Camino is also quite diverse. Not only from pilgrims from many countries, but also from local people, because there are accents and words that come from other Iberian languages, as Basque, Asturian or Galician.
It seems to me that while I was in Galicia last summer, saying "Hola" was a sure sign to the locals that I was a tourist. Seems they all greet eachother with "Buenos dias", etc or even just "Bueno" rather than simply "Hola". Anyone else have that experience?
Well, not exactly that, but similar. In France the standard polite form when you encounter another person (and in provinces, even complete strangers in the streets, or when boarding a bus) is "Bonjour". But in the French Pyrenées before Oloron (that is in the Piedmont Way) I discovered it is saying "Monsieur" or "Madame/mademoiselle", while tilting the head slightly downward.It seems to me that while I was in Galicia last summer, saying "Hola" was a sure sign to the locals that I was a tourist. Seems they all greet eachother with "Buenos dias", etc or even just "Bueno" rather than simply "Hola". Anyone else have that experience?
oh brother - that really tops it.I'm saying nothing I'm Glaswegian !
I think we shouldn't overthink some of these issues in traveling to countries where we are not native speakers and are traveling. To the extent one can, I think it is courteous to use the language of the country we are visiting even if we are not sure of the most polite form -- nobody will expect it of a foreigner really. Just do your best. And Felipe, the reason I quoted your post was to say to you I love Mexico.Well, not exactly that, but similar. In France the standard polite form when you encounter another person (and in provinces, even complete strangers in the streets, or when boarding a bus) is "Bonjour". But in the French Pyrenées before Oloron (that is in the Piedmont Way) I discovered it is saying "Monsieur" or "Madame/mademoiselle", while tilting the head slightly downward.
It is these kind of experiences that are possible only when you walk by a country, preferably alone or with a few other persons.
You gotta love the Scots…..those from what was my Dad's home in Dundee, are hard pressed to understand those from what was my Mum's home in Aberdeen.View attachment 25019
oh brother - that really tops it.
(had september last year my first glasgow experience. only understood every 8th or 10th word - but always somehow managed to converse and to get onto the right trains, right address, etc
mega friendly - either that or they are had kind pity with me and my probably deeply perplexed looks while i wondered: "what the hell is he asking me about?" but something was so 'endearing' about the entire glasgow experience, i'll be back in september 'for seconds' - glasgow, helensburg, etc. - and i am bringing my camino walking shoes with me for hiking...
the best remedy in language hic-ups: smiles and laughter.
thus far, glasgow has posed, to me, the biggest challenge ever. until visiting there, i had actually believed that i'd be able to understand english. nonetheless, something captured me about "la Scozia" (that's the italian name for scotland) - and i shall be back, God willing.
I'm saying nothing I'm Glaswegian !
Sorry, could you repeat that?? I didn't quite understand you.
"scots elivator skit burnistoun" in any search engine will find it. As NualaOC says it is very funny but NSFW (not suitable for work) unless you've a very broadminded workforce and you're the boss!This reminded me of the very funny YouTube video about a voice recognition elevator in Scotland. It's a little inappropriate so I won't share the link - but it's very easy to find
It seems to me that while I was in Galicia last summer, saying "Hola" was a sure sign to the locals that I was a tourist. Seems they all greet eachother with "Buenos dias", etc or even just "Bueno" rather than simply "Hola". Anyone else have that experience?
Sometimes we Irish people can unwittingly confuse others for whom English is also their mother-tongue by the use of Hiberno-English sentence constructions. A prime example is the grammatical after-perfect or immediate perfective. For instance: "I am just after coming from Pamplona". Every Irish person will know what is meant but the use of "after" will sound odd, if not confusing, to other English speakers. Better to say: "I have just come from Pamplona". There is nothing incorrect in the Hiberno-English use of "after" - it is just not part of the standard English spoken in the UK, the USA, Canada and other English speaking countries. It derives from the Irish language which was once widely spoken in Ireland but no longer is. Irish grammar norms found their way into the way English was spoken in Ireland and they have survived to this day.
Incidentally, when on the Camino my standard greeting is "Good Morning" or "Good Afternoon" rather than "Hola!". This is not to disrespect the language of the country through which I am walking or the majority of pilgrims who are Spanish - it is simply to advertise the fact that I am an English speaker and it can result in conversations with other walkers that might not otherwise happen.
Oftentimes on the Camino when there are people of several nationalities present English is used as the common language, which is of great advantage to those of us for whom English is our mother tongue.
Out of courtesy for those for whom English is not their mother tongue we should make an effort to speak clearly and a little more slowly than usual. We should also be careful to use plain English rather than colloquialisms or slang. This would require little effort on our part, but could mean a lot to others present.
Yes in Galicia "Hola" is not usually used by locals. They say buenos días/ bos días , etc.
In Madrid is much more common Hola especially with neighbours and coworkers.
In trekking "Hola" is the most used.
Speak English well...! That pretty much leaves out the Americans (all), the Australians, the Irish, etc. I'm thinkin I'll just pop a cork and speak the universal lingo...
The Irish speak Hiberno English which is one of the pure forms of English, like the Queens English no lessSpeak English well...! That pretty much leaves out the Americans (all), the Australians, the Irish, etc. I'm thinkin I'll just pop a cork and speak the universal lingo...
I have been wondering since this thread started what 'plain English' might be, given the enormous range of differences between and even within the various national versions of the language.and, sadly, many of my fellow countrymen (and women)
The Irish speak Hiberno English which is one of the pure forms of English, like the Queens English no lessso don't be including us with you lot.
I've heard that expression up here in Canada........and look where we are situated, geographically!....... I mean who outside of Texas refers to .........problems as " goin south?
Yeah, though when I lived in BC I always thought Alberta ought to secede and join Texas. Maybe arrange a swap for Oregon and Washington!I've heard that expression up here in Canada........and look where we are situated, geographically!
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