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The camino IS people.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
The thing that bothered me most was the few people I met who frequently mentioned their devotional faith and then would tell of meeting someone who had lost their wallet or whose phone (and method of payment via Apple Pay etc) was now pooched, and this person of faith made a point of getting ahead of the lost wallet pilgrim in case they asked for lunch to be bought, or for their albergue fee to be paid. I am aware that there are some that walk Camino with no means of self support on the premise that the Camino Provides, and they are taking advantage of others along the way. But it seems a sad existence to automatically assume that someone in need is trying to scam people.
For you, but not for everyone.The camino IS people.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share...
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought.
Yes, of course. Sometimes my supper has been the tired packet of instant noodles in the bottom of my bag. But 1) there was a packet of noodles and 2) I didn't expect the Camino to provide a miraculous three course meal.Haven't we all left something on a bench, left an item behind in an albegue (yep, that would be me!) or didn't get a chance to pack food because a store was closed?
In these cases I (not Christian) am very willing to buy someone lunch. It's lunch, I'm not giving them hundreds of Euros. I'm not willing to financially support them for the entire Camino, but I can buy lunch.I haven't been in that position to either need assistance or give it... But if someone came to me with such a story i would prob assume it was a scam too. I'd be very careful about offering financial support unless i knew they filed a police report.
Yes, of course. Sometimes my supper has been the tired packet of instant noodles in the bottom of my bag. But 1) there was a packet of noodles and 2) I didn't expect the Camino to provide a miraculous three course meal.
I don't rely on the "Camino provides"
It's not helping people that annoys me. It's the "I don't need to think ahead because the camino provides " attitude that I worry about.
Yes, I gave a pilgrim €200 once because his bank account was frozen. Everybody told me I would never see the money again. When I gave it I gave it not expecting it to be returned. However, he tracked me down and Los Arcos a few days later and repaid me. Other times I help people and do expect something in return like tonight with my two little danish girls. It was really helpful for me to get back half of my money on this big apartment that I didn’t need. It wasn’t that they didn’t have the money. It was that they did not book ahead. They’ve learned a good lesson and spent a couple of hours on the Internet organizing the next few days. Now they are much more informed pilgrims and hopefully will have a Buen Camino.I have given another pilgrim money for a bed and supper more than once. I did it knowing I might never see the money again. When I give like that, I understand that once the money leaves my hands, I have no controll on what the other person does with it.
One pilgrim got to Orrison thinking he could use a credit card and had no cash. We paid for his bed and meal. Two days later, he tracked us down and returned the money.
Other times, we have given more than needed because we knew there were others in the albergue que who had no money and asked the nuns to use it to give someone else with a bed. Both those young men were able to stay the night and helped the sisters and other pilgrims throughout the afternoon and evening.
I share when I can. I like volunteering at albergues and at National Parks and these things give me great joy. The harder task for me is learning to humbly accept a gift when it is needed.
I can see where you are coming from but I want to offer another perspective.I do think the phrase "the camino provides" is bandied about too much. One recent example was someone who lost their hat and found it in their bag: "the Camino provides". Or another who arrived in a town and were cold after a long walk but there was a bar selling coffee - if you can believe it. What are the odds? The camino provides.
I love that word, insouciance.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
I agree to what you are saying in regards to being responsible for yourself. There is a side to the Camino providing that excludes human intervention. We are on our third Camino and there has been a consistency of 'events' or incidents occurring when you need them most. Examples are far to numerous to list, but happen it does. I do not believe in divine intervention. Anywhere else it is coincidence. Here, it is Camino Coincidence.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
Bones definitely. Certificate - no.Barreling through the dust to salvation (or a nice certificate): giving and receiving as the universe unfolds. Does anyone go to the bones anymore or is it just a process?
I have mixed feelings about this post. It is our first Camino. We researched and read John’s book. We were lead to believe to pack light, do not pack for all the “what if” scenarios because you can’t carry all that. So we brought appropriate clothes for early spring and early summer weather. We brought rain ponchos. We brought extra shoes and a minimal amount of first aid equipment. When blisters appeared, we were prepared. When a cold snap brought temps to freezing overnight, we layered up and were prepared. What we were not prepared for was being in a rain storm with winds of 50 km/hr and getting soaked pants only to be told there was no dryer machine, and no heat in the Albergue. I was already wearing the only two pairs of pants I had because it was so cold. We were told “If we wanted to hang our clothes to dry there was a line outside”…it was still raining and 6 degrees! Then there was the food poisoning with excessive vomiting and diarrhea on a Saturday night in a small village with a pharmacy that was open Mon, Tues, and Thursday mornings only. No help there, and I hadn’t packed Immodium having read “there are so many pharmacies along the way- just pick up what you need, when you need it”.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
Yes! The camino is THE people (pilgrims) on it. Without the pilgrims, the camino as it is regarded, would be, well, just another trail or path or way.The camino IS people.
Before I started my walk, I had read “the Camino provides “. I must say, I was a bit sceptical about this saying, but now!!!! Yessssss! The camino does indeed provide.Never have I been so clear and focused as I am after completing my walk. The pure joy and love and togetherness I felt after arriving at the cathedral is like nothing I have experienced yet in my life of 62 years. I am in awe of this journey, and proud to have been a part of this experience. One funny last comment that I heard about “the camino provides”: yes, the Camino provides Rain, and indeed it did rain, but I found this very funny! And I am elated to be a part of this incredible journey. Buen Camino!!!!!Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
I have mixed feelings about this post. It is our first Camino. We researched and read John’s book. We were lead to believe to pack light, do not pack for all the “what if” scenarios because you can’t carry all that. So we brought appropriate clothes for early spring and early summer weather. We brought rain ponchos. We brought extra shoes and a minimal amount of first aid equipment. When blisters appeared, we were prepared. When a cold snap brought temps to freezing overnight, we layered up and were prepared. What we were not prepared for was being in a rain storm with winds of 50 km/hr and getting soaked pants only to be told there was no dryer machine, and no heat in the Albergue. I was already wearing the only two pairs of pants I had because it was so cold. We were told “If we wanted to hang our clothes to dry there was a line outside”…it was still raining and 6 degrees! Then there was the food poisoning with excessive vomiting and diarrhea on a Saturday night in a small village with a pharmacy that was open Mon, Tues, and Thursday mornings only. No help there, and I hadn’t packed Immodium having read “there are so many pharmacies along the way- just pick up what you need, when you need it”.
The Camino is very busy this year. Unless you have booked ahead you will be lucky to find a bed. Many people are telling stories of having to walk for an additional number of hours searching for a bed. That’s disheartening when you are cold, wet and tired. I am also experiencing some gouging in prices when beds are scarce. Capitalism has definitely found the Camino.
I have also experienced a very giving spirit on the Camino. When my husband was so sick, the shop keeper in the minimart (the only store in town and closing at 2:30 pm for the day) could see I was close to tears when I enquired about a bus or taxi to get us to the next town for the next day (Sunday) as I knew he was too weak to walk. She personally telephoned the cabbie and booked him for a Sunday to pick us up and drop us off at the next town. It cost us dearly financially, but I didn’t expect any free ride. So the Camino does provide good people. She could have just let me buy the Aquarius (the only drink with electrolytes) and let me on my way.
I think the people that believe “the Camino will provide” in a materialistic way are incorrect and will be disillusioned. But for those who believe the Camino will provide in a spiritual way- there are lots of teaching opportunities-about yourself, about judgement, and about vulnerabilities. I know I’ve learned a lot and I’m only 450 kms in.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for this. It sounds a lot like our first Camino, but interestingly enough we've been back 8 times now. Somehow the sprained ankle, the bilateral blisters, the searing heat, the food poisoning didn't put us off and we returned home with the sense of peace and belief in good people. The Camino did provide for us what we needed (almost never what we thought we wanted) which for us was a sense that life could be simplified.I have mixed feelings about this post. It is our first Camino. We researched and read John’s book. We were lead to believe to pack light, do not pack for all the “what if” scenarios because you can’t carry all that. So we brought appropriate clothes for early spring and early summer weather. We brought rain ponchos. We brought extra shoes and a minimal amount of first aid equipment. When blisters appeared, we were prepared. When a cold snap brought temps to freezing overnight, we layered up and were prepared. What we were not prepared for was being in a rain storm with winds of 50 km/hr and getting soaked pants only to be told there was no dryer machine, and no heat in the Albergue. I was already wearing the only two pairs of pants I had because it was so cold. We were told “If we wanted to hang our clothes to dry there was a line outside”…it was still raining and 6 degrees! Then there was the food poisoning with excessive vomiting and diarrhea on a Saturday night in a small village with a pharmacy that was open Mon, Tues, and Thursday mornings only. No help there, and I hadn’t packed Immodium having read “there are so many pharmacies along the way- just pick up what you need, when you need it”.
The Camino is very busy this year. Unless you have booked ahead you will be lucky to find a bed. Many people are telling stories of having to walk for an additional number of hours searching for a bed. That’s disheartening when you are cold, wet and tired. I am also experiencing some gouging in prices when beds are scarce. Capitalism has definitely found the Camino.
I have also experienced a very giving spirit on the Camino. When my husband was so sick, the shop keeper in the minimart (the only store in town and closing at 2:30 pm for the day) could see I was close to tears when I enquired about a bus or taxi to get us to the next town for the next day (Sunday) as I knew he was too weak to walk. She personally telephoned the cabbie and booked him for a Sunday to pick us up and drop us off at the next town. It cost us dearly financially, but I didn’t expect any free ride. So the Camino does provide good people. She could have just let me buy the Aquarius (the only drink with electrolytes) and let me on my way.
I think the people that believe “the Camino will provide” in a materialistic way are incorrect and will be disillusioned. But for those who believe the Camino will provide in a spiritual way- there are lots of teaching opportunities-about yourself, about judgement, and about vulnerabilities. I know I’ve learned a lot and I’m only 450 kms in.
Thanks for reading.
People are decent! As a member of the LGBT community and a solo traveler,I was a little worried that I might be faced with some discrimination, but no! Open hearts and open minds everywhere I went. I. Finish my journey in Porto tonight, tomorrow I return home, and already thinking and planning my next camino, perhaps this time the French route, but maybe a shortened version next spring!In fairness you hit on some good points. But people generally are decent. The camino just gives you a few more chances to be vulnerable and rely on others. And likewise gives others a chance to be of assistance and maybe trust you too.
I managed to run low on cash and got a lend of €50 to tide me over off a pilgrim who didn't gloat or hit me with a "the camino provides". At home there generally isn't a time I'm several days away from an ATM.
There is an order of magnitude difference between a reasonably prepared pilgrim, who has a single bad day, experience or moment, and an irresponsible pilgrim who just wanders blithely along, assuming that all the others will provide for him/her and look out for him/her. I have encountered both along my Caminos.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
As usual, I have several anecdotes to illustrate both sides of this.On the other hand, I think one element of the transformative Camino experience is learning how good it feels to be generous to strangers.
But. Not. Every. Single. One. or Every. Single. Day.
My Camino was over, but I made it to a clinic the next day.
No understanding that the reason there are beds available is because many of us book private rooms.
I would say it was the spirit of the person who helped you. I like to think this spirit can be found everwhere; not just on the camino. I don't deny that I have experienced amazing coincidences, serendipities, people or fountains or open farmacias showing up in the nick of time on the camino. But I am not a fan of magical thinking.Sorry...the poster's philosophy hits me as edged, over-focused and quite pessimistic...attributes that are most prevalent in the world since the beginning of the Pandemic. So, I provide my response as observations and not opinion.
Yes, I am a recipient of, "Camino love."
It was not asked for. The provider was not aware that I was injured. She simply found me standing in the shade on a very hot day. She offered a ride. It was 5 PM and I was 7 km to Zubiri. I had blown out the IT Band in my left leg. My Camino was over. But, a helping hand appeared, unexpectedly, saving me from a very excruciating hobble up and down that last part of the path, which would take me well past Sundown.
This happened. It is not conjecture. It is not opinion. It is an unescapable Spirit of the Camino. Yes?
I can only pray that each and every Peregrino / Peregrina experience or at very least, witness this Spirit in action.
It does seem like on the Camino help shows up more often than would be expected by pure chance.A pilgrimage involves deliberately putting yourself in an unfamiliar situation. People around you will notice that you will frequently seem pretty clueless. Occasionally you may even become aware of it yourself.
Part of the Camino culture is that helping other people is a good thing.
I’ve spent several thousand miles walking toward Santiago and have been happy to be rescued by both locals and by pilgrims. Every so often I’ve even been able to help others.
I think that I see the world as a better place because of that exchange.
Welcome to the world of humans. Even if it changes, it will take centuries at the least if not more. I actually prefer the unpredictable and even irresponsibility of humans. I do not want a world of Spock's and robots--some, but not too many. if these quirks and, yes, even irresponsible behaviors are what makes our little fold unique, inexplicable. Continue marching on, ye of irresponsible behavior.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
Not recently. But yes, they have all happened. Because I'm a human being I helped the pole loser and the hungry pilgrim. Not a lot I could do about a camera ten kilometres back other than suggest asking at a police station. I didn't see the cuddly toy post.OP - did these situations actually happen to you recently - ie were you asked to help a pilgrim who lost their pole, or camera or ran out of food?
Or was it prompted by the recent, desperate, request on this site, to please keep an eye out for a yellow stuffed toy that had sentimental value for the owner?
I gotta say, this is a very non-spiritual response to the question but . . . . accurate!!You know what really provides? An ATM card and a bank account back home.
I walked from Le Puy to SJPP and whilst the countryside is often beautiful, the daily stress of trying to find somewhere sensible to stay (it was busy when I walked in Sept and May/June) and my poor French combined with a predominance of French walkers, meant that I did not enjoy it nearly as much as I do walking in Spain.I haven’t read all the comments yet, but thought I would get my two cents worth in as this is very relevant to me right now.
I find that I am walking Camino Podiensis (4th Camino) starting 25th of May. My experience is that my Caminos choose me rather than me choosing them.
Anyway, the delightful picture that came to mind was that I would get to Le Puy and just start strolling through the countryside. Such a beautiful vision - so simple.
However it’s a bit humorous that this route is one where you pretty much need to book ahead, even if it’s only for a day or two - particularly if you want to get dinner.
I was feeling very resistant - What about my beautiful vision of just putting on my pack and starting to walk?
After a bit of reflection I discovered that there really is no contradiction between strolling through the countryside and doing a bit of planning.
The Camino always provides. It provides us with brains, phones, emails, booking resources, Apps, guidebooks, and so much more.
I am reminded of the drowning man who prayed to God to save him. Along came a boat, and then later a helicopter, And to both he said - oh no, I don’t need you, God will save me. Well, he died and went to heaven. And when he asked God, why God didn’t save him, God said - Well, I sent the boat and the helicopter, but you turned them away.
in other words “ Trust in God, but tie up your camel.”
The Cromwell quote was strange he was egotistical murderer and a religious tyrant. He show the English people exactly what they don’t wantOr do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
This getting slightly off beam. I am not even sure if the quote is attributed correctly. Can we focus on the points being made in the original post?The Cromwell quote was strange he was egotistical murderer and a religious tyrant. He show the English people exactly what they don’t want
Sounds a bit like St. James when he appeared as Matamoros on a white horse, beheading and trampling Muslims.The Cromwell quote was strange he was egotistical murderer and a religious tyrant. He show the English people exactly what they don’t want
I will continue to see it differently.I would say it was the spirit of the person who helped you. I like to think this spirit can be found everwhere; not just on the camino. Although I don't deny I have experienced amazing coincidences, serendipities, people or fountains or open farmacias showing up in the nick of time on the camino!
Confirmation bias. EXACTLY.Growing up in a Spanish-speaking country, I dimly remember as a child watching a movie taking place in Spain, and a priest saying something like “Dios proveerá” (God will provide), no mention of the Camino. This always felt to me like magical thinking, because I’m a skeptic by nature (and yes, cynical all too often), although I could recognize that there is an element of faith in it, if not faith in God, at least faith in humanity.
Being that i”m skeptic, I try to walk the fine line of learning when to be trusting and when to be rejecting. When to trust, when not to trust? (I believe that in psychology, that’s one of the earliest developmental stages).
From the variety of responses here, I would say we all grapple with these things differently, in our own way.
With so many viewpoints, it’s easy to get conflicting, contradictory messages. Take personal responsibility but don’t overthink it, the Camino provides, don’t pack your fears but you should have prepared better, etc etc. There’s the issue of confirmation bias (something I myself have struggled with a lot), in which we say “you see??? I KNEW it, the Camino provides” as well as those that would say “I KNEW I couldn’t trust anybody, my faith in humanity is gone” (I’ve seen some of these on FB and YT).
As for me, I’m trying to approach it with a spirit of curiousity. What’s this “Camino Magic” that supposedly happens? I hope I’m able to be open to it if it happens so I can recognize it, and to ALSO be open to the possibility that there’s no such thing and it’s just one long, miserable hike, so I try not to be too invested in my hopes/expectations. Or that I’m just gaslighting myself by making up things to fit my view of the world regardless of the actual reality.
Of course, I haven’t done a Camino yet, who knows how I will see things when (or if) I finish it!
More shall be revealed…
I think.. from the nature of the instances/issues/problems you listed.. the fact is… we all make mistakes and “forget things.” I’d be interested to know if.. you may feel these things do not apply to you. Who knows .. maybe they don’t. Now..if someone loses .. or forgets their camera/ phone/poles.. more than a couple of times… well.. some lessons just have to be learned the hard way!Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
Not that anyone asked or should care... Nine years after the Battle of Edgehill, Cromwell's army defeated the Royalists at the Battle of Worcester (1651). My 8th great grandfather, Alexander Magruder was captured and sent to the colonies as a POW/indentured servant. Many children born in the colonies in those days didn't survive, but six of Alexander's children grew to adulthood. Five of them were boys. I am related by blood to just about every White Magruder (and some Black McGruders, too).Oliver Cromwell, at the Battle of Edgehill in 1642, is supposed to have told his Roundhead troops in that opening fight of the English civil war, ''Put your trust in God, my boys, but mind to keep your powder dry.
Which is a way of saying that you need to take some of your own responsibility if you wish a successful outcome of your endeavour.
I think that's the best and most profound post I've seen on this thread. I'm not terribly keen on Oliver Cromwell myself, but he did at least have a deep belief in what he was trying to do.What have I learned from reading all the way through this thread?
That unicorns don’t exist.
That I still profoundly dislike Oliver Cromwell. Despite having a degree in medieval and modern History, I managed to remain in complete ignorance of his life and actions.
That there are bandits on the Camino.
That there are wise ones …
That I’ve missed a sure fire way to get rich .. if only my mother had told me to watch the 10s instead of the single pennies, I’d be laughing …
My own experience tells me that:
Not much beats self-reliance and being resourceful … it feels good to meet life and to cope with it.
I would hope that a sense of community is always with us …not just on the Camino.
Sharing is a joy, though I still have to learn to feel completely comfortable with accepting from others. I hope I’m getting better at this, because true sharing is among equals, in the truest sense.
Life, the Universe, the woman offering you a lift, the ‘other’ who is simply kind towards you, the fellow pilgrim who searches in your pack for your epipen … can all ‘provide’ in the material sense.
The Camino provided me with a way - a place - to just ‘be’.
Sad thought process …… The Camino is about love where all types of people come together without forcing the troubles of the world on others and are willing to help in all things thus by being on the Camino in this spirit the Camino providesOr do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
I do not subscribe to that belief, sorry.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
I was going to quote that same statement. Pity he didn’t follow his own advice. As William Faulkner (a much nicer if more troubled man) said “History is never dead. It’s not even finished”.“I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, consider that you might be mistaken"
The phrase always bothered me, but I never considered the notion of negligence. Just my tendency to prefer accuracy in communication—and it’s far from accurate that a pathway is going to take any action to benefit (or harm) a human or other animate being. If some gracious pilgrim helps me out of a jam, wouldn't it be very rude for me to give the credit to “the Camino”?Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
I take a similar appreoach. Folks whine “they'll just sell it for drug money” and I reply, “Maybe, but if so, it least I’ve made them work a little for it.”At home, I am known to take homeless people to lunch when asked for spare change. I often carry gift cards in small denominations (10-20$) to hand out as well. I've made a few good friends this way, one a homeless alcoholic First Nations artist is now housed and sober and creating art and volunteering at few shelters. The person I helped on Camino may go on to help others, and I get to feel good for the low low price of lunch.
I think that this is a very good thread, as it has people evaluating and articulating their beliefs. People, in fact, can have different ideas, or takes, and not be the Devil. I will confess that I found the constant refrain of the "Camino provides" from some more than a little irritating for a couple of reasons. As noted by some others, there were those who used it as a cover for just using your stuff, and trying to make you feel like it was all OK. One delightful fellow I met on the Camino had hiked the Appalachian Trail in one shot, I think he was living out of a bag for 6 months. He said in the through hiker community there are those that they call "gram weenies". Those who are obsessive about shaving off fractions of a gram from their pack weight. He said that, in practice, they were always the ones going around camp, scrounging from others. I have always remembered his words...'you can be comfortable on the trail, or at camp, but never at both.' So if you lose a wall plug (as happened to me) and that same evening a young man announced that he had accidently packed a spare, and gave me his spare, that is the Camino providing (as it provided him with a beer)...if you don't bring a poncho and it starts to rain in Galcia (shock!) well...that is on you. So while I have been the thankful recipient of Camino largesse, I plan to bring extra hikers wool and supplies in my first aid kit (maybe a wall plug?), precisely so that I can give them away, the extra grams be damned. The same reasoning though says to bring my Epipen and that to rely upon Camino "magic" if I go into anaphylactic shock would just merit me a Darwin Award.
My other reason, sure to rankle some...but we all come from different places. Is the sort of Disney-fication (lets' pretend it is a word) of the Camino. I groan at the overuse of "the Camino provides" or variations of that. At risk of stating the obvious, the routes we call the Camino are pilgrimage paths to visit the remains of St. James. A sort of ersatz New Age-ism that drains substantive content beliefs, and substitute it with saccharin replacements is not what sustained centuries of pilgrims who made the walk to Santiago de Compestela. It is like those Christmas movies that are put on Netflix, the message of which "the meaning of Christmas is about spending time with those you love", or some such weak tea, while at the same time ensuring that a Charlie Brown's Christmas is not shown as it might offend someone, somehow, and is now banned in State schools. So, for me, the constant refrain of "the Camino, the Camino" like it were some separate ontological category, is at best like mistaking the finger pointing at the moon, for the moon. At worst, it is total cringe.
As is often the case, it’s not about others or their attitudes to their Camino. It takes time and learning to discover that some of our practical problems are down to an omission of our own - that’s the learning - right there. I find myself without something I need - next time I make sure I don’t create that again. Sometimes the response of another will help me learn what I need to learn - and that is the giving and taking a shared experience can offer.Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
Could not have said it better myself....Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!C
I’ve only walked one and that was Portuguese coastal. Because of where I come from and choosing to walk alone I couldn’t go with the Camino will provide outlook - I planned quite a lot at fairly short notice- I did have to make some changes on route but all good. I meet several making it up as they went but in March/ April it’s a lot quieter so you can take risks-Or do you prefer Cromwell's attitude?
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry.
I am starting to get tired of the attitude that it isn't necessary to take reasonable care and thought, because somehow there is this warm, fluffy, and benevolent spirit called "The Camino" that will make everything alright again.
You lost your walking pole? Someone will find you another one... You left your camera on a park bench? Other people will go to considerable trouble to find and return it... You didn't think to shop for food? That's not a problem, people will share....
All this help, and I don't deny it exists, is coming from the efforts of other human beings who might just prefer to be doing something else or, let's face it, relaxing instead of solving someone else's problems mostly caused by their lack of planning and thought. I'm not against helping when there is a genuine problem due to illness or injuries but sometimes I do wonder where this cheerful insouciance is coming from and what it would lead to in everyday life. The Camino is not providing. Other people are providing. The Camino is a pilgrimage route, not your mother.
I'd be interested to hear your varied opinions!
That is exactly what I meant about friends. After my walking friend went home and I was on my own I discovered I didn't really like walking alone. I idly thought of a delightful older English gentleman we had met some days before, and wondered how he was doing. On the morning of the third day, there he was having breakfast and we walked together for the next ten days!I can't help but not comment on this. I have two examples where I think "the Camino Provides" is more of a coincidence where the universe putting you together with something you need. Sure, it could come in the form of a human helping but it's almost outside of that realm.
So many more examples: the woman who had infected blisters when I did so we both went to the hospital together (I had no idea what I was going to do) then we travelled together after that for a while; the lesson I learned while in the hospital of letting go as I wasn't sure if I was going to finish the camino, or be flown back to Canada to get the stone removed; finding people to walk with in the dark when I hate walking alone in the dark; sitting with someone new who didn't speak English but spoke rough French and so did I so we could have a great conversation and laugh at ourselves.
- First example: One night, while in Leon, on the top bunk, I started to get the tell tale pains of a kidney stone. I got off that bed so quick (before I couldn't move anymore) and called my husband to ask what I should do and if he could help me find the nearest hospital. I don't speak spanish. As I opened the door to the albergue to leave, there was a danish woman who I had only marginally said hello to earlier, arriving back to the albergue. She could see I was in pain and asked if I needed help. She then walked with me to the hospital where she helped me located a nurse and then spoke perfect Spanish for me. She arranged a taxi (in Spanish) and then we went to the pharmacy where she got my perscription filled (in Spanish). It's like too good to be true: I opened the door to leave, she was right there, and wanting to help me and had all the tools at her disposal to help me where I couldn't help myself.
- Second example: the day before the kidney stone experience, I was walking around Leon and walked into an outdoor store. As I walked around the store and looked at the items, I couldn't believe my exact backpack (which I bought in Canada) was hanging in the store. Weird! Flash forward 5 days later as I'm emerging from the hospital from the kidney stone, I go to wash all of my belongings because I had also been plagued with bed bugs BEFORE the hospital visit. My backpack was put out on a terrace in a black garbage bag and sprayed while I was at the laundromat. When I came back, my backpack was gone. After much fretting me and the albergue owner realized it was one of his employees that had thrown out my backpack. But because of my window shopping days before, the Albergue owner said he would buy me a new backpack and there was the exact one I had been using the entire time thus far - bed bug free!
So for me, it's more than just people handing out food or money when you need it. It's actually about the Camino presenting you with the thing you need or will need when you need it. A laugh, safety, help, a backpack... Like a higher power watching over for you.
I truly believe this. <3
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