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Informative and crystal clear rules. Hope everyone will follow it to the letter. Really not the time for improvising.
Very helpful if you can read it. My Spanish is at best, very basic. Just enough to get by on the camino but reading a document that size is outside my abilityVery helpful, especially in its elaboration of protocol for common areas. Thank you!
Very helpful if you can read it. My Spanish is at best, very basic. Just enough to get by on the camino but reading a document that size is outside my ability
Is there a way to somehow use google translate, for documents such as this?
You can copy and paste into Google Translate.Is there a way to somehow use google translate, for documents such as this?
Try this manual for hostels (albergues) which ICTE (Spanish Tourism Quality Institute) published a few weeks ago in English:
Try this manual for hostels (albergues) which ICTE (Spanish Tourism Quality Institute) published a few weeks ago in English:
if I decide to do the Camino again I would not stay in hostels with dormitories which I never liked I would stay in pensioners. But that's next year.Below is the document presented by the AMCS concerning the health protocol for hostels and pilgrims in Spain
https://www.amcsantiago.com/download/8109/
Thank you for this. I am a former Pilgrim & since 2004 have been running a gîte d’étape /chambre d’hôte on the GR 65 in France. Apart from a « protocol » from AirBnB on cleaning & disinfection there seems to be little guidance here. We are remaining closed until 1st August, mostly because our early season reservations have all been cancelled or postponed to autumn but also we are in an « at risk » group. Several of our accommodation owning friends are now open and a few are refusing to let people bring their own sleeping bags, a decision which we don’t fully comprehend. Let’s hope & pray for a healthy end to the 2020 season.Below is the document presented by the AMCS concerning the health protocol for hostels and pilgrims in Spain
https://www.amcsantiago.com/download/8109/
I identify with your sentiments fully - in our case, our accommodation is in our family home, so for us « health » comes before « wealth ». Stay safe people.There is a strange parallel world in relation to opening up hospitality / tourism locations. Those with a vested interest in travel are pushing. Those with a vested interest in healthcare are resisting.
My family have worked in the tourism sector for decades. The company they work for is now planning to open their sites in early July but the locals have been lobbying their parliamentary representatives to resist the opening and a number of sites have had letters asking them to wait.
The local cite a fear that visitors will overwhelm local health services should they become ill. This is in the face of the fact the local businesses rely on visitor income which they appear to want to forgo due to the fear of the virus.
It's not going to be easy and I suspect there will be unpleasantness
It is a tough time for us who run albergues.
Up on the Primitivo, where I staff the FICS/municipal in Grado, the other albergue owners (almost totally privately owned) have already released videos and lists of places that are opening, or are open already. They presumed to put our place on their list, with our phone numbers, even, for reservations! (we never accept reservations). Presumptuous.
We are a volunteer group that staffs a facility owned by the city of Grado -- a city hit very hard by the virus, which is being extremely careful about opening things too soon. No decisions have been made.
All I can do is wait while city fathers ponder... and try to stand firm while the albergue owners howl, and the pilgrims telephone, and the board of directors discusses "the symbolic value of remaining the sole donativo..." I wonder if I will have volunteer hospis who are young and healthy enough, and willing to take on this risky job if/when we do open the doors.
Meantime, I live in Castilla y Leon. Grado is in Asturias. It's illegal for me to even cross the frontier, to start rearranging furniture!
These are petty concerns in the grand scheme of caminos, I know. I don't want to close down while everyone else is open, and send a wrong message about the fragility of the donativo system.
But I have nightmares about another outbreak happening in Grado, and people falling sick at "our" albergue!
I dont think so. I can use google translate for most things like web site articles or online newspapers but it does not seem to work with PDFsIs there a way to somehow use google translate, for documents such as this?
I dont think so. I can use google translate for most things like web site articles or online newspapers but it does not seem to work with PDFs
I was able to copy text from the PDF and paste it into Google Translate. It's not as nicely formatted as the original, but gets the job done.I dont think so. I can use google translate for most things like web site articles or online newspapers but it does not seem to work with PDFs
Use this tool:I dont think so. I can use google translate for most things like web site articles or online newspapers but it does not seem to work with PDFs
Great tool! I translated the original minus the cover pages.Use this tool:
Free Online Translator - Preserves your document's layout (PDF, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OpenOffice, text)
Free, Online Document Translator which translates office documents (PDF, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OpenOffice, text) into multiple languages, preserving the original layout. Supported file formats: Word: doc, docx; PDF: pdf; Excel: xls, xlsx; Powerpoint; ppt, pptx; Text xml, txt.... This...www.onlinedoctranslator.com
This sounds crazy.. Where is the Camino spirit? Impossible to cook together? Etc.. Stop paranoïa. If government open frontiers, it means the risk very low. Nothing prevents you, however to take additional precaution. Or you can book individual rooms with private bathroom and eat ALONE into your room. Or camping?Informative and crystal clear rules. Hope everyone will follow it to the letter. Really not the time for improvising.
I guess, yes. Agree no vaccine, no medication. This will be the case up to 2022? Are we going to stay home? Your best protection is yourself. Virus level is low ( government decision) but not void. According to WTO, the best protection is hygiene. Not masks.. However, weak persons should wear one as a conservative measure. There is additional point not sufficiently raised. Should you get sick , how the Albergue is going to handle you. You need private room during 14 days before you can go. Nobody discuss that.. It is a very important point. Stay safe, Camino will be there tomorrowI skimmed the English “Hostels Guidelines”. But much reads like the generalized Project Management Templates I used to deal with. Written by people of good faith who had little actual experience with the work and processes of front line workers—ie authorship by health care management who had never worked as a nurses-aide or even shadowed them for a few days, writing policies for nurses aides to follow.
Heartbreaking work and changes will need to be made to get the camino to work on the new normal.
And even without the pandemic threat, the Camino experience is best with the existence of good uniform collective action. Pilgrims seem unawares on little collective ‘goods’ as: early morning risings, cleaning up after themselves, treating their gear with permethrin insecticide, mistaking donativo as ‘free’, carrying trash to a town receptacle instead of leaving it trailside, etc, etc.
The consequences of failed collective action on this pandemic are much more severe than a plastic bottle left trailside!!
And we are setting rules and policies with minimal information—less than 200 days since start of pandemic. I noticed that a breakdown of covid on the Diamond Princess (3711 passengers and crew) that of 712 infected, 410 had no symptoms when tested (positive) and 331 remained asymptomatic. Yet we still delude ourselves to believing screening by temperature with a non-contact thermometer will protect us from the sick.
We have no accepted treatment.
We have no vaccine.
The health experts arguments seem to be losing to those who fear the economic crisis shutdown brings on. But it looks to me like the only currently effective tools are hygiene and social distancing-both difficult everywhere on a Camino but nearly impossible in an albergue.
And on Diamond Princess 1 in 9 needed some sort of treatment; 1 in 18 had to go to ICU, an 1 in 60 died. Do France/Spain have the medical capacity for this. And appears to now be an uninsurable risk.
Am I missing something when I view that we are making critical decisions and policy on little information with huge downside risks when we are wrong?
Stay well.
I skimmed the English “Hostels Guidelines”. But much reads like the generalized Project Management Templates I used to deal with. Written by people of good faith who had little actual experience with the work and processes of front line workers—ie authorship by health care management who had never worked as a nurses-aide or even shadowed them for a few days, writing policies for nurses aides to follow.
Heartbreaking work and changes will need to be made to get the camino to work on the new normal.
And even without the pandemic threat, the Camino experience is best with the existence of good uniform collective action. Pilgrims seem unawares on little collective ‘goods’ as: early morning risings, cleaning up after themselves, treating their gear with permethrin insecticide, mistaking donativo as ‘free’, carrying trash to a town receptacle instead of leaving it trailside, etc, etc.
The consequences of failed collective action on this pandemic are much more severe than a plastic bottle left trailside!!
And we are setting rules and policies with minimal information—less than 200 days since start of pandemic. I noticed that a breakdown of covid on the Diamond Princess (3711 passengers and crew) that of 712 infected, 410 had no symptoms when tested (positive) and 331 remained asymptomatic. Yet we still delude ourselves to believing screening by temperature with a non-contact thermometer will protect us from the sick.
We have no accepted treatment.
We have no vaccine.
The health experts arguments seem to be losing to those who fear the economic crisis shutdown brings on. But it looks to me like the only currently effective tools are hygiene and social distancing-both difficult everywhere on a Camino but nearly impossible in an albergue.
And on Diamond Princess 1 in 9 needed some sort of treatment; 1 in 18 had to go to ICU, an 1 in 60 died. Do France/Spain have the medical capacity for this. And appears to now be an uninsurable risk.
Am I missing something when I view that we are making critical decisions and policy on little information with huge downside risks when we are wrong?
Stay well.
Do you have information about this phenomenon?Will it simply become like many viruses which develop into a symbiotic organism with no affects on humans.
Check this out: https://pdf.wondershare.com/pdf-kno...t=Step 1: Go to your,Open With > Google Docs".Is there a way to somehow use google translate, for documents such as this?
Do you have information about this phenomenon?
Meantime, I live in Castilla y Leon. Grado is in Asturias. It's illegal for me to even cross the frontier, to start rearranging furniture!
There are also numerous examples of beneficial gut viruses, in addition to bacteria.
Our knowledge about the transmission of this coronavirus and about the disease Covid-19 is constantly evolving and so is the advice to reduce transmission. You may want to read the newest guidance of the WHO (I guess that is what you meant, the World Health Organisation WHO and not the World Trade Organisation WTO), issued on 5 June 2020 on the Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19, which includes advice on wearing face masks for the general public. The aim is to reduce viral transmission in the population by all appropriate means.According to WTO, the best protection is hygiene. Not masks
Isn't the advice clear? Inviting the pilgrim to immediately contact the telephones enabled for this purpose by the Autonomous Communities (especially in the case of foreign pilgrims, it is advisable that the hospitalero phones them).Should you get sick , how the Albergue is going to handle you. You need private room during 14 days before you can go. Nobody discuss that.. It is a very important point.
wishing you strenght and god speed when you can open again. Very trying times indeedIt is a tough time for us who run albergues.
Up on the Primitivo, where I staff the FICS/municipal in Grado, the other albergue owners (almost totally privately owned) have already released videos and lists of places that are opening, or are open already. They presumed to put our place on their list, with our phone numbers, even, for reservations! (we never accept reservations). Presumptuous.
We are a volunteer group that staffs a facility owned by the city of Grado -- a city hit very hard by the virus, which is being extremely careful about opening things too soon. No decisions have been made.
All I can do is wait while city fathers ponder... and try to stand firm while the albergue owners howl, and the pilgrims telephone, and the board of directors discusses "the symbolic value of remaining the sole donativo..." I wonder if I will have volunteer hospis who are young and healthy enough, and willing to take on this risky job if/when we do open the doors.
Meantime, I live in Castilla y Leon. Grado is in Asturias. It's illegal for me to even cross the frontier, to start rearranging furniture!
These are petty concerns in the grand scheme of caminos, I know. I don't want to close down while everyone else is open, and send a wrong message about the fragility of the donativo system.
But I have nightmares about another outbreak happening in Grado, and people falling sick at "our" albergue!
Sorry. WHO not WTO..Our knowledge about the transmission of this coronavirus and about the disease Covid-19 is constantly evolving and so is the advice to reduce transmission. You may want to read the newest guidance of the WHO (I guess that is what you meant, the World Health Organisation WHO and not the World Trade Organisation WTO), issued on 5 June 2020 on the Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19, which includes advice on wearing face masks for the general public. The aim is to reduce viral transmission in the population by all appropriate means.
Concerning the guidelines for albergues and pilgrims that are the topic of this thread, it seems to me that the guidelines proposed by the Camino municipalities for their albergues are very similar to the earlier guidelines issued by the Spanish government for hotels and albergues in general. The Spanish municipalities along the pilgrim routes own and finance pilgrim albergues. If and when their guidelines are implemented your choice about whether you wish to use a face mask or not may be an easy one to make: no mask, no bed.
Buen camino!
Isn't the advice clear? Inviting the pilgrim to immediately contact the telephones enabled for this purpose by the Autonomous Communities (especially in the case of foreign pilgrims, it is advisable that the hospitalero phones them).
Where you will stay when you get sick with Covid-19 is not the concern of the albergues and that's probably why there is not more about this issue in their guidelines. I would not expect to be housed by a pilgrim albergues when I get ill with Covid-19. So the question is where do you have to stay in each of the Spanish regions when you are not sick enough for a hospital stay and who pays for your accommodation.
Pilgrims are nothing special. People who stay at home, don't move around and interact with a very small circle of other people are less likely to transmit the Covid-19 virus than people who don't stay at home, move around a lot and interact with a large number of other people. What can be done to minimise the spread of the virus when people don't stay at home, move around a lot and interact with a large number of other people? Here's what we think can be done, based on our experience of the last two to three months. It is really as simple as that.Pilgrims are not the enemy
They may very well be, but I think that albergue owners and staff are neither responsible nor accountable for addressing those risks.Not covered is the people who defecate along the trail and those who urinate and leave their paper along the trail. These are serious risks.
Yes, you're right. People with COVID-19 will not engage themselves in a 800 km walk. They will stay home. At least those I know. But I understand your concern. Really. But when the public authorities declare Spain out of alert and open frontiers, there is a risk. Lower than car accident by the way, but real. Albergues owners can decide also to close down and pilgrims can postpone also their trip. Until when? A vaccine? Not before end of 2021. RgdsPilgrims are nothing special. People who stay at home, don't move around and interact with a very small circle of other people are less likely to transmit the Covid-19 virus than people who don't stay at home, move around a lot and interact with a large number of other people. What can be done to minimise the spread of the virus when people don't stay at home, move around a lot and interact with a large number of other people? Here's what we think can be done, based on our experience of the last two to three months. It is really as simple as that.
What makes this discussion (in general) a bit frustrating is the flip-flopping between one's own concerns about one's personal health and the general concerns for public health.But I understand your concern. Really. But when the public authorities declare Spain out of alert and open frontiers, there is a risk.
In Greece every area will have a quarantine hotel and your stay will be paid for by the government, presumably because they will have to pay for the rooms anyway even if nobody stays.Isn't the advice clear? Inviting the pilgrim to immediately contact the telephones enabled for this purpose by the Autonomous Communities (especially in the case of foreign pilgrims, it is advisable that the hospitalero phones them).
Where you will stay when you get sick with Covid-19 is not the concern of the albergues and that's probably why there is not more about this issue in their guidelines. I would not expect to be housed by a pilgrim albergues when I get ill with Covid-19. So the question is where do you have to stay in each of the Spanish regions when you are not sick enough for a hospital stay and who pays for your accommodation.
we are not going to agree. Your are trying to define an offering to open commercial albergues right now. I can understand the point and the urgency. the Spanish government has issue guidances (guias ICTE) to comply with. But, on the other side, Certain people / Pelegrinos asociacion are saying that theses specs are not compatible with the Camino spirit (the old one). Me, as a traditional Pilgrim I'm looking for a Camino based on simplicity, sharing, etc. I'm not looking for a tourism package.
Hike your hike, but the hike that comply with these ICTE Guias is not the Camino, the traditional one.At least, my believing.
Let us see how donativo albergues that have built the Camino are going to handle these ICTE. Perhaps they will postpone their opening. Some are saying October? Later? I shall wait. El Camino puede esperar... Me too. It is so important, at least for me.
Rgds.
Albergues are a fairly recent invention in terms of the camino and they were/are meant for pilgrims who couldn't afford hotels/ hostals so I don't understand what you mean by a traditional camino in terms of staying in albergues and donativo's.we are not going to agree. Your are trying to define an offering to open commercial albergues right now. I can understand the point and the urgency. the Spanish government has issue guidances (guias ICTE) to comply with. But, on the other side, Certain people / Pelegrinos asociacion are saying that theses specs are not compatible with the Camino spirit (the old one). Me, as a traditional Pilgrim I'm looking for a Camino based on simplicity, sharing, etc. I'm not looking for a tourism package.
Hike your hike, but the hike that comply with these ICTE Guias is not the Camino, the traditional one.At least, my believing.
Let us see how donativo albergues that have built the Camino are going to handle these ICTE. Perhaps they will postpone their opening. Some are saying October? Later? I shall wait. El Camino puede esperar... Me too. It is so important, at least for me.
Rgds.
Just because someone doesn't have Covid or any other disease when they start the Camino doesn't mean that they won't be exposed to it and contract it along the way. I've never packed bedbugs in my backpack, but I've been bitten by them along the Camino because someone else was carrying them. Albergues have protocols in place to stem the transmission of bedbugs, and now they have protocols in place to stem the transmission of Coronavirus.Yes, you're right. People with COVID-19 will not engage themselves in a 800 km walk.
Just because someone doesn't have Covid or any other disease when they start the Camino doesn't mean that they won't be exposed to it and contract it along the way. I've never packed bedbugs in my backpack, but I've been bitten by them along the Camino because someone else was carrying them. Albergues have protocols in place to stem the transmission of bedbugs, and now they have protocols in place to stem the transmission of Coronavirus.
And the WHO didn't say that asymptomatic transmission is impossible, just that as far as they can tell right now, it is rare. And they weren't talking about pre-symptomatic transmission:
While some cases of Covid-19 are fully asymptomatic, sometimes the word is also used to describe people who haven’t started showing symptoms yet, when they are presymptomatic. Research has shown that people become infectious before they start feeling sick, during that presymptomatic period.
'We don’t actually have that answer yet': WHO clarifies comments on asymptomatic spread of Covid-19
After strong pushback from public health experts, a top WHO official clarified scientists don’t know yet how often asymptomatic Covid-19 patients are spreading the disease to others.www.statnews.com
I agree. I have also met people along the Camino who had bites that looked suspiciously like bedbug bites, but they wouldn't do anything to decontaminate their gear to make sure that they weren't carrying the bedbugs with them. Three times I have had bites that were suspicious. Actually, the first time I was pretty certain that they were bedbug bites because bedbugs had been discovered in the bunk above mine. The other two times I had bites of unknown origin. But each time I followed the protocol to decontaminate my gear. It wasn't how I wanted to spend a few hours, but I wanted to be responsible to albergue owners and my fellow pilgrims.I noticed a significant amount of people in my corner of the world, don’t comply with the rules to wear masks in interior public spaces. So they are also probably not following the other recommendations, like handwashing etc. I suspect its the same everywhere, and will be the same on the Camino. A significant portion of people will not comply with any rules, either because they are stupid, selfish, or don’t believe that the rules are necessary. It’ll be a long time before I’m willing to stay in a hostel type situation for my own safety and peace of mind. You can make all the rules and publish all the papers you want, but in the end you cant trust other people with things like this.
Do you have this in English? Thanks.Below is the document presented by the AMCS concerning the health protocol for hostels and pilgrims in Spain
https://www.amcsantiago.com/download/8109/
I put it through a translator, and the result is in this post #22 aboveDo you have this in English? Thanks.
Great tool! I translated the original minus the cover pages.
Thank you!I put it through a translator, and the result is in this post #22 above
They've since walked that back...now stating that better terms are "asymptomatic" and "pre-symptomatic" with no way to know the difference in the moment. You can be infected with no symptoms, but its a far cry from being infected with no symptoms 'yet'...As I was skimming through the latest news, this little nugget popped up:
WHO: Asymptomatic COVID-19 spread deemed ‘rare’
If this proven to be the case, then what will be a very low transmission risk with existing protocols, and new ones for albergues, will be even more effective. Symptomatic individuals can be isolated, during any stage of travel, for quick medical follow-up with testing.
There is nothing to agree or disagree about.we are not going to agree. Your are trying to define an offering to open commercial albergues right now
Albergues as we know them today may be "fairly recent invention" but hardly the refugios/hospitales etc. 1000 years ago. Be it in "terms of Camino" or not. Municipal/parrochial even more so historically.Albergues are a fairly recent invention in terms of the camino and they were/are meant for pilgrims who couldn't afford hotels/ hostals so I don't understand what you mean by a traditional camino in terms of staying in albergues and donativo's.
We are in agreement. I was referring to the fact that some people think they are not doing a real camino if they don't stay in albergues, but these were originally set up as I said to cater for those who couldn't afford to stay in hotels, staying in hotels is not any less real or not less "in the spitit" of the camino, a bit like thinking you have to start in StJPdP and walk the Napoleon route to do a real camino.Albergues as we know them today may be "fairly recent invention" but hardly the refugios/hospitales etc. 1000 years ago. Be it in "terms of Camino" or not. Municipal/parrochial even more so historically.
They've since walked that back...now stating that better terms are "asymptomatic" and "pre-symptomatic" with no way to know the difference in the moment. You can be infected with no symptoms, but its a far cry from being infected with no symptoms 'yet'...
After reading the document it does not sound like any of the you-tube Camino's that I have watched. It sounds like something from a science fiction movie. One of the best parts of the Camino is to meet new people, have conversations, have some laughs. If your personality is one of being an introvert and not bothering to see or interact with other people, your time is at hand. For the rest of us, pray for a vaccine. I live in the USA and they are going all out to get a vaccine for this year. I hope they make it.
I was thinking to myself how funny it is when someone laments the fact that now there may be not as many communal meals and not as many dormitory beds and not as many pilgrims from all over the world and not as many open donativos or publicly financed or religious albergues as they experienced in their recent camino walk last year or a few years ago or learnt about from YouTube videos and movies. As if it had been always like this.Albergues are a fairly recent invention in terms of the camino and they were/are meant for pilgrims who couldn't afford hotels/ hostals so I don't understand what you mean by a traditional camino in terms of staying in albergues and donativo's.
And when the mere thought of having your body temperature taken before you are allowed into a pilgrim albergue and being obliged to wear a face mask when you cannot maintain the required distance to others is an unbearable thought, then consider yourself lucky that you did not walk in 1586 when, staying in an Oviedo albergue for example, you had to accept these rules:
Every night at bedtime pilgrims must be stripped of all their clothes before they go to bed and those who are not clean [show signs of any disease or skin disorder] must sleep in a separate bed for the mangy.☺
I'm looking forward to hearing from 2020 peregrinos who are actually walking on a camino in Spain now or in the near future and how they actually perceive the situation. So far, I've seen video footage of three Spanish pilgrims who have a LOT of experience of walking caminos in Spain and they sound actually very happy.But the 2020 Pelegrino must understand that , in current situation, simplicity and sharing at least are profoundly damaged.
That is good news. Few Pelegrinos lower the risk. I guess also that a winter Camino would be different with a summer one.I'm looking forward to hearing from 2020 peregrinos who are actually walking on a camino in Spain now or in the near future and how they actually perceive the situation. So far, I've seen video footage of three Spanish pilgrims who have a LOT of experience of walking caminos in Spain and they sound actually very happy.
In some places, such as Salamanca (VdLP), you can not travel to a different province within the region (at least up until June 22). This is the case in some other parts of the country, but no so much in the French camino.¿Ni se puede viajar entre comunidades autónomas aún? Uau...
But of course. The individual pilgrim is responsible and the individual pilgrim will have to pay, especially if you’re not hospitalised. And for those of us from outside the EU, there’ll be no insurance to cover any of it.Where you will stay when you get sick with Covid-19 is not the concern of the albergues and that's probably why there is not more about this issue in their guidelines. I would not expect to be housed by a pilgrim albergues when I get ill with Covid-19. So the question is where do you have to stay in each of the Spanish regions when you are not sick enough for a hospital stay and who pays for your accommodation.
The last time someone posted something about Alpine huts and Covid-19 measures (in Switzerland) it ended badly so I hesitate to mention something about Alpine huts and Covid-19 measures in France. The French Federation of Alpine and Mountain clubs FFCAM has drawn up a form that is even available in English. It needs to be signed beforehand to confirm an obligatory reservation. It serves of course not only as a self-declaration but also to increase awareness of the individual responsibility of the mountain walker, hiker or climber to make "the trip safe for oneself and others".
The form can be found here: in English, in Spanish and in French. Maybe interesting to look at the text in this context? I am NOT proposing that such a form is used on the camino so please everyone save your breath. You even have to confirm that you are aware that in the current health context, the operation, the reception conditions and the services offered by the hut (albergue) will not be the same as usual; that you won't go to a hut (albergue) if you or someone in the group you are with (!) has potential symptoms of Covid-19 (cough, fever > 37.8 ºC, diarrhoea, nausea, cold, severe fatigue, conjunctivitis, loss of taste or smell) and that you will bring all the adequate material necessary (hydro-alcoholic gel, mask, ...).
WHO has walked back on that one the very next day already.As I was skimming through the latest news, this little nugget popped up:
WHO: Asymptomatic COVID-19 spread deemed ‘rare’
If this proven to be the case, then what will be a very low transmission risk with existing protocols, and new ones for albergues, will be even more effective. Symptomatic individuals can be isolated, during any stage of travel, for quick medical follow-up with testing.
Am I to understand from this that there are separate bio hazard bins?I was able to copy text from the PDF and paste it into Google Translate. It's not as nicely formatted as the original, but gets the job done.
Here's the translation from the first section:
The staff and hospital staff must: PREMISE: The Camino is, and continues to be, a safe environment. Both in his journey through the urban environment and in his essential part of contact with Nature, it is basically the individual responsibility of the pilgrim that will allow him to continue being it. EXCEPTIONAL MEASURES As exceptional measures in the face of the health crisis we are experiencing, pilgrims are advised during their period of march: 1 Maintain measures of social distancing, both on the Camino and when passing through towns and shelters. 2 Wear masks, either surgical or if possible with FFP2 protection level without valve, and latex or nitrile gloves, which should be put on in case of contact with other pilgrims, neighbors or making use of the services of the Camino, always maintaining the safety distance. 3 Extreme personal hygiene, with frequent use of hand soap and hydroalcoholic solution after touching surfaces susceptible to transmitting the virus, especially those where it has proven to be more persistent, such as metal and plastic, especially at low temperatures . 4 Carry your own sleeping bag and hydro-alcoholic gel for personal use, as well as a sufficient supply of masks and gloves to the next pharmacy-equipped nucleus. 5 Individual responsibility must avoid irresponsible actions such as spitting on the floor, coughing without taking the appropriate measures, or throwing cigarette butts, discarded gloves or facemasks or garbage out of the bins or containers arranged for this purpose. In this regard, environmental damage is compounded by an easily avoidable risk for others, for example, by applying the principles of the “A clean step” campaign. 6 Be especially careful with cleaning in fountains and rest areas, which must be periodically sanitized.
Also, no blankets (or sheets) supplies by the albergue, as they can’t be washed after every use. Plastic coverings should be enough, and easier to clean.As I have said many times before on this Forum we are in this together. So let's act responsible together. Help out cleaning the toilet or bathroom once you've used it. Carry your own mask, gloves and some hand sanitizer. Make sure you bring a sleeping bag and maybe your own utensils. These are just a few things that will go a long way to help albergue owners get through this period.
Surely, what is essential here is not WHO guidelines, but the rules of the country you are in. At the moment in all of Spain a mask is essential indoors, for example at the supermarket and the pharmacy and in all situations whereby a social distance of 2 metres cannot be maintained.Sorry. WHO not WTO..
Disagree. The note Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19, you refer is " to provides advice on the use of masks in communities, during home care, and in health care settings in areas that have reported cases of COVID-19... It is intended for individuals in the community, public health and infection prevention and control (IPC) professionals, ".
Please read carefully. When you KNOW there is a covid-19 case, better to wear a mask. But on the camino, you are a pilgrim and you just dont know. If you believe however, that everyone around you is infected , just stay safe at home. . IMHO.
I understand the spanish people. Covid was terrible and fears are still there. But the Covid entered in Spain without the piligrims.. Pilgrims are not the enemy. And when I read the guidelines, in spanish, they are far from the spirit of the camino (Values of simplicity, living with little, fraternity, spirituality). The point is not to wear or not masks. Have you been in these albergues? How to prepare food , clean laundry etc.. if you believe that the other is just an another covid case? Stay at hotel , they have more money and they can afford to clean every day rooms etc..
The Camino they want ( AMCS - 81 cities + private entites) to implement is NOT the Camino. But the values of the Camino will survive as it has been in the past centuries - without this little businesses minded approach thu the Albergue publico network - when they open, most likely in winter times when the others be closed...
Rgds.
WHO has walked back on that one the very next day already.
I did not read this document literally word for word, but one thing that I did not notice was asking for and recording personal contact information from pilgrims, for example a telephone number, for infection contact tracing. Contact tracing is an essential tool for controlling spread of Covid. Hopefully it is there and I missed it.
This statement has me very puzzled.The absence of asymptomatic transmission is a reality.
When the risk changes (even when it doesn't reduce to zero), the response and control methods will change.This will not change if/when a vaccine is available. Vaccines are mostly far less than 100% effective.
Hi davebugg,From my experience either government passports or other IDs are required to be given for check-in.
If the concern is an ability to contact a pilgrim DURING a Camino, then that would already provide a base of information. Without requiring that a pilgrim have an active cell phone, or file a required itenary that cannot be deviated from, I think the method for capturing Pilgrim Intel is already in place.
From a public health perspective, I can think of a dozen ways that such contact tracing would be ineffective, at interrupting the virus, if an outbreak occurs.
This statement has me very puzzled.
When the risk changes (even when it doesn't reduce to zero), the response and control methods will change.
Your post presents statements of fact that we can't really question or debate properly on this forum.
Hi davebugg,
You have a lot of useful information. I take it take your background is in these areas. You posted two camino's for 2020. Have you already done them or plan on doing them later this year. If you are going to do them this year when it opens, do you have a blog/vlog that you do daily so the rest of us know how things are going on the camino's? I know it takes time and effort so maybe every 2/3 days. Direct information from someone knowledgeable would be very useful for the rest of us. Thanks for your input. It's well received.
Are you are saying that sometimes asymptomatic patients do not transmit to the uninfected? That seems obvious since even symptomatic patients don't always transmit to others.Theabsencelack of transmission of COVID-19, from some asymptomatic patients to the uninfected, is a reality.
Am I to understand from this that there are separate bio hazard bins?
Also, no blankets (or sheets) supplies by the albergue, as they can’t be washed after every use. Plastic coverings should be enough, and easier to clean.
It is a tough time for us who run albergues.
Up on the Primitivo, where I staff the FICS/municipal in Grado, the other albergue owners (almost totally privately owned) have already released videos and lists of places that are opening, or are open already. They presumed to put our place on their list, with our phone numbers, even, for reservations! (we never accept reservations). Presumptuous.
We are a volunteer group that staffs a facility owned by the city of Grado -- a city hit very hard by the virus, which is being extremely careful about opening things too soon. No decisions have been made.
All I can do is wait while city fathers ponder... and try to stand firm while the albergue owners howl, and the pilgrims telephone, and the board of directors discusses "the symbolic value of remaining the sole donativo..." I wonder if I will have volunteer hospis who are young and healthy enough, and willing to take on this risky job if/when we do open the doors.
Meantime, I live in Castilla y Leon. Grado is in Asturias. It's illegal for me to even cross the frontier, to start rearranging furniture!
These are petty concerns in the grand scheme of caminos, I know. I don't want to close down while everyone else is open, and send a wrong message about the fragility of the donativo system.
But I have nightmares about another outbreak happening in Grado, and people falling sick at "our" albergue!
I have been wondering about this. We were set to walk the Primitivo in May and are now looking at this Fall. Is there a trustworthy albergue network we can contact to find out information without calling every one?
It is a tough time for us who run albergues.
Up on the Primitivo, where I staff the FICS/municipal in Grado, the other albergue owners (almost totally privately owned) have already released videos and lists of places that are opening, or are open already. They presumed to put our place on their list, with our phone numbers, even, for reservations! (we never accept reservations). Presumptuous.
We are a volunteer group that staffs a facility owned by the city of Grado -- a city hit very hard by the virus, which is being extremely careful about opening things too soon. No decisions have been made.
All I can do is wait while city fathers ponder... and try to stand firm while the albergue owners howl, and the pilgrims telephone, and the board of directors discusses "the symbolic value of remaining the sole donativo..." I wonder if I will have volunteer hospis who are young and healthy enough, and willing to take on this risky job if/when we do open the doors.
Meantime, I live in Castilla y Leon. Grado is in Asturias. It's illegal for me to even cross the frontier, to start rearranging furniture!
These are petty concerns in the grand scheme of caminos, I know. I don't want to close down while everyone else is open, and send a wrong message about the fragility of the donativo system.
But I have nightmares about another outbreak happening in Grado, and people falling sick at "our" albergue!
There are several recommendations which I do not agree with, not only because they represent an additional financial investment but mainly because 1) they do not take into consideration the environmental impact of the rules and 2) they place the sole responsibility for carying out the sanitary/hygiene guidelines with the albergue holder. What about the pilgrim? Why should an albergue owner clean the bathrooms 6x a day, supply the pilgrim with a mask, gloves, a separate plastic bag for shoes, backpack, dirty clothes, disposable sheets, plastic utensils, etc., etc.? If these are requirements for the pilgrims then why don't they carry their own? It is not surprising at all that many albergues have decided to postpone opening or wait until 2021 (and I haven't even talked about the potential impact on the aging local population).
I think you’re dreaming if you think you can depend on pilgrims to carry the responsibility. I’m not saying that you’re not right, because you are. And if I was there you could depend on me. But I think a significant percentage of people would be scofflaws. That’s why the responsibility has to fall on the Albergue owners. It’s unfair, and probably will result in economic hardship or disaster, but it’s the only way it’ll work.
I'm afraid that you are right. As I mentioned above, many pilgrims can't be trusted to do what's necessary to stop the transfer of bed bugs, so I wouldn't trust them to do what's necessary to stop the transmission of Covid.I think you’re dreaming if you think you can depend on pilgrims to carry the responsibility. I’m not saying that you’re not right, because you are. And if I was there you could depend on me. But I think a significant percentage of people would be scofflaws. That’s why the responsibility has to fall on the Albergue owners. It’s unfair, and probably will result in economic hardship or disaster, but it’s the only way it’ll work.
True that. I don’t see why pilgrims can’t be asked to shoulder some of the responsibility. @trecile showed a photo of her albergue bunk setup that I follow myself & find it makes the most sense, leaving nothing for the hospitalera/o to do the next day, and guaranteeing that I have a clean setup every night.Tough times for albergue owners, that's for sure. To be asked to be all things to all pilgrims, to meet extra Covid-safe requirements, which involve significant expense and much labour, is asking a lot.
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