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Yeah, I saw the same several times in churches along the CF. Getting the sellos and leaving the donativo basket as barren and empty as windswept prairie.
I can only attribute it to the affliction known as "cheap charlie-itis"....
That's too cool. Beautiful story.@Mark Lee:
After arriving in Barbadelo last fall, four km. past Sarria, I settled into a nearby albergue then went to see the local Church of Santiago, a 12th cent. Romanesque church praised by Brierley, and to get my second sello of the day. It was early November and there were still flowers on the tombs from the celebration of All Souls on Nov. 2. For some reason, I saw a man in the graveyard who was calling after me and concluded that he was the caretaker and he thought I was stealing the flowers. However, I waited for him at the side of the church and he took me inside, where he offered to stamp my credencial. I reached into my pocket and discovered that I had not transferred my change to my skirt pocket when I showered. I had nothing smaller than a five euro note, which I put in the basket with the remark, "for the church." I really thought that, as the caretaker, he had a small income on the side, as I had seen in the church in Torres del Rio, where a custodian would come to open the church and stamp your credencial, but she expected one euro for her services. So I sat down in the church, which he set up for the mass. I was no longer surprised when he left for a minute, and returned in vestments to offer the mass. I was wasting my suspicions on a priest. I was the only one in the congregation. The priest helped me with all the responses, as I really only knew the Lord's Prayer in Spanish and bits of the mass responses. It was a wonderful service and I was much blessed. For me, it was one of those times when the everyday events of the camino pass without warning into a time of special blessing. I was glad that I had not let my unworthy suspicions stop me from putting that five euro note in the basket.
Yeah, I saw the same several times in churches along the CF. Getting the sellos and leaving the donativo basket as barren and empty as windswept prairie.
I can only attribute it to the affliction known as "cheap charlie-itis"....
@Mark Lee:
After arriving in Barbadelo last fall, four km. past Sarria, I settled into a nearby albergue then went to see the local Church of Santiago, a 12th cent. Romanesque church praised by Brierley, and to get my second sello of the day. It was early November and there were still flowers on the tombs from the celebration of All Souls on Nov. 2. For some reason, I saw a man in the graveyard who was calling after me and concluded that he was the caretaker and he thought I was stealing the flowers. However, I waited for him at the side of the church and he took me inside, where he offered to stamp my credencial. I reached into my pocket and discovered that I had not transferred my change to my skirt pocket when I showered. I had nothing smaller than a five euro note, which I put in the basket with the remark, "for the church." I really thought that, as the caretaker, he had a small income on the side, as I had seen in the church in Torres del Rio, where a custodian would come to open the church and stamp your credencial, but she expected one euro for her services. So I sat down in the church, which he set up for the mass. I was no longer surprised when he left for a minute, and returned in vestments to offer the mass. I was wasting my suspicions on a priest. I was the only one in the congregation. The priest helped me with all the responses, as I really only knew the Lord's Prayer in Spanish and bits of the mass responses. It was a wonderful service and I was much blessed. For me, it was one of those times when the everyday events of the camino pass without warning into a time of special blessing. I was glad that I had not let my unworthy suspicions stop me from putting that five euro note in the basket.
Do you really think this conclusion is justified? Or that it is the only conclusion to be drawn from the circumstances you describe?I'm puzzled...........do we really live in such a mean and selfish World?
Do you really think this conclusion is justified? Or that it is the only conclusion to be drawn from the circumstances you describe?
My observation is that there has been a large increase in the numbers of people and places with their hands out on the CF since I walked in 2010. It varies from straight begging through seeking donations for relatively simple provision of drinks etc at convenient locations to support of worthy causes like donating at a church. From Sarria, we could have had our hands in our pockets a couple of times at every town or village if we had given to even the more worthy looking 'causes', more if we had given to those we thought were just begging.
Without wanting to appear smug, I already support a range of charitable causes and micro-finance lending at home, as I suspect do many others. Making such a harsh assessment based merely on what you might see on the Camino is intrinsically biased and potentially unfair.
So my take is that there are at least two other things that might explain what you have observed:
- There are more people seeking our support, and it's hard to winnow out the good from the greedy.
- Many will already contribute in their own ways elsewhere and feel no great compulsion to add to that.
I think you are creating a connection here that is at best loose, and in my view, non-existent. Mere physical collocation of a stamp and a donation box does not create an obligation to either use the stamp or make a donation. Unlike an albergue where there are real costs associated with running a donativo, the cost of any particular use of a stamp is infinitesimal, and of itself would not create any moral or other obligation on the person using it.Fair comment Doug. Just gets me a bit 'hot under the collar' when I see people taking advantage. i.e. The Nun. 20 people get a stamp...........and leave nothing....
At home, you are busy in your familiar daily routine and probably don't notice in the same way. On the camino, you are spending all day just observing your surroundings and how people interact on a pilgrimage. As you say, there are many opportunities to be disappointed as well as inspired and you have lots of time to think about them both.I do witness astonishing levels of the opposite on the Camino that I don't see so often at home.
No. I think this is an even more tortured analysis than @Robo's. It relies on a view that a reward is required and the only satisfactory reward is a donation. Even if one accepts the first of these premises, which don't seem to me all that reasonable anyhow, the so-called social contract could be closed any number of ways. The simplest of these might be simply to thank the person involved.then for both sides there needs to be reward so the receiver of the sello should donate ... don't you think?
No. I think this is an even more tortured analysis than @Robo's. It relies on a view that a reward is required and the only satisfactory reward is a donation. Even if one accepts the first of these premises, which don't seem to me all that reasonable anyhow, the so-called social contract could be closed any number of ways. The simplest of these might be simply to thank the person involved.
I repeat, this is not to suggest one shouldn't make a donation, just that I think that decision is entirely seperable from accepting a stamp.
Great, great story. Assumptions are rarely good.@Mark Lee:
After arriving in Barbadelo last fall, four km. past Sarria, I settled into a nearby albergue then went to see the local Church of Santiago, a 12th cent. Romanesque church praised by Brierley, and to get my second sello of the day. It was early November and there were still flowers on the tombs from the celebration of All Souls on Nov. 2. For some reason, I saw a man in the graveyard who was calling after me and concluded that he was the caretaker and he thought I was stealing the flowers. However, I waited for him at the side of the church and he took me inside, where he offered to stamp my credencial. I reached into my pocket and discovered that I had not transferred my change to my skirt pocket when I showered. I had nothing smaller than a five euro note, which I put in the basket with the remark, "for the church." I really thought that, as the caretaker, he had a small income on the side, as I had seen in the church in Torres del Rio, where a custodian would come to open the church and stamp your credencial, but she expected one euro for her services. So I sat down in the church, which he set up for the mass. I was no longer surprised when he left for a minute, and returned in vestments to offer the mass. I was wasting my suspicions on a priest. I was the only one in the congregation. The priest helped me with all the responses, as I really only knew the Lord's Prayer in Spanish and bits of the mass responses. It was a wonderful service and I was much blessed. For me, it was one of those times when the everyday events of the camino pass without warning into a time of special blessing. I was glad that I had not let my unworthy suspicions stop me from putting that five euro note in the basket.
@Jeff Johnston:Great, great story. Assumptions are rarely good.
Somewhere along the Portuguese, in Portugal, I saw my favourite pilgrim stop. A private home, along its property wall, has a bench, a water spout for drinking water and a jar of candies. A one time investment, except the candy, at a relatively low cost over time, durable, amd providing what matters most: a place to rest and have a good gulp of water.If my work will allow me to, I will probably do "something" for the pilgrims passing through Lisbon in the hot Summer months after I come back from the Camino.
It's an idea I've had recently. This "something" will have some costs. Not much, but some. My bank account is laughable so I will have some basket/container for donations - and whatever money I may get will be used solely to provide this "something" for the pilgrims. And in the days before packing up and stopping doing this I will remove this donations thing.
I have already thought about the possibility of not getting any donations. And what then? Well, like I said, the costs involved are not major, and the reason for me to do this would be to give back to the Camino (if this makes sense - if it doesn't I'll be happy to explain).
I don't think a pilgrim who doesn't give any money when I am offering something is being mean or selfish.
I am sure the nun appreciated your donation and I hope she was as happy to stamp the credencials of the other pilgrims as much as she was to stamp yours.
I guess when I see an occurrence once, I do not assume that it is the norm. On the other hand, if I see something regularly, I learn that this is the norm and a practice to be followed. But, I never judge a book by its cover or an individual by what I see them doing or wearing. Long ago "learned" that the hard way!@Jeff Johnston:
I am pleased that you liked my story, but I wonder how you are able to distinguish learning, based on previous experience, from assumptions. My experience of the caretaker's behaviour in Torres del Rio was what led me to believe that I understood what was happening in Barbadelo. In a foreign environment this is how I learned. Of course, I now see that things are more complex, so I know less than I thought I did. But I suspect that I shall go on learning (making assumptions?) from my experiences.
This all just adds to my unkind suspicion of people who offer things without stating upfront the reward expected. What happened to the adage that the giver gets more than the recipient?
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I agree 100%. But in this case, there was a choice to join the line or not.
And only 2 things were on the table. A stamp, and a donation basket. Both in clear view from the road.
There was clearly an 'expectation' of a donation........if only from those who felt they wanted to.
Certainly not any 'obligation'.
Of course there will be people who didn't have any change, had run out of money, made a conscious decision not to donate etc etc.
But nothing.........from 20 in a row.
To me that's just sad.
The two women I had passed on the eastern side of the river alighting from their car (moto-pilgrims??) and pretending to struggle that short distance into town also neglected their donativo!
It is interesting to read the comments, reactions and interpretations. You assumed that the money is a small income on the side while I had assumed that it was used for the maintenance of the building. I've googled it a bit right now. It turns out that the well-known octogonal church of Torres del Rio has a fixed entry price of 1 EUR. So here's a different interpretation: she did not expect anything for her services, she was collecting the entry fee.
I was wondering at the time whether the church was actually used as a church and I see now that a different church in Torres del Rio serves as parochial church.
But we should not think unkind thoughts or jump to conclusions! They might have been injured or needed to catch up time or something...
....
As to the Santo Sepulcro church in Torres del Rio, which was apparently declared as a monumento del Historico-Artístico in 1931 (no idea what this means) ...
It's a pity that you did not ask any of the 20 people near Arzua or Palas De Rei why they did not put any coins into the empty basket. Or the nun to find out what the collected money was for. Or stayed on to watch what happened after there was a 2 EUR coin in a.
Wow! This post redeems all sides of this entire thread. Thanks for the gift of tears from your beautiful writing.Collecting sellos, pondering payment, wondering over the worthiness of the person asking for support, measuring your church offering according to the building's degree of decoration... it is all a very transactional approach to the pilgrimage. I give you this, I get that. I shop for months in advance, ask everyone which is the Best albergue, route, shoes, socks, prayers, airline, and guidebook. and if my expectations are not met, I complain on the Forum.
Beyond all this noise and preoccupation about Getting and Spending is the truly amazing truth about the Camino, maybe the thing that makes it so special. The Camino trail itself may have become a grab-that-cash theme park in places, but the pilgrim economy, practiced by the pilgrim community, is not based on transactions. It runs on Grace.
Something for nothing. Beauty, kindness, acceptance, brotherhood, in exchange for... just showing up, just walking. Just being what you are is enough. Just a place out of the rain, a bocadillo, a glass of tinto is enough. Yes, you are expected to pay your way. And you have so many opportunities to help others make their way, too -- and you find your heart is open, and your wallet is, too, and you can afford it just fine.
If you don't get a great bunk in the recommended albergue, your heart does not break.
If you have to walk another couple of km., you survive. Someone gives you his lower bunk, or lends you a sleeping mat, or tells you where there's a nice haystack. You give your last Compeed to the boy with shredded toes, and you don't fret about having enough for yourself. You walk freely. Free. It's grace. You find it on the Camino.
And when you get home, you realize it's there, too. It always has been. Even after your credential with all the fancy stamps is lost in a drawer, you still can give and receive without judging or fearing the other, because you are free. You've met grace, and she lives in you now.
It is the largest city for starting, but the requirement is 100km, which is just after Ferreiros (also after Morgade). The old 100km mojone was before Ferreiros, but the Camino "end" changed enough that it was moved a couple of years ago when the new mojones were installed (and now are missing most of their kilometer plaques).
Collecting sellos, pondering payment, wondering over the worthiness of the person asking for support, measuring your church offering according to the building's degree of decoration... it is all a very transactional approach to the pilgrimage. I give you this, I get that. I shop for months in advance, ask everyone which is the Best albergue, route, shoes, socks, prayers, airline, and guidebook. and if my expectations are not met, I complain on the Forum.
Beyond all this noise and preoccupation about Getting and Spending is the truly amazing truth about the Camino, maybe the thing that makes it so special. The Camino trail itself may have become a grab-that-cash theme park in places, but the pilgrim economy, practiced by the pilgrim community, is not based on transactions. It runs on Grace.
Something for nothing. Beauty, kindness, acceptance, brotherhood, in exchange for... just showing up, just walking. Just being what you are is enough. Just a place out of the rain, a bocadillo, a glass of tinto is enough. Yes, you are expected to pay your way. And you have so many opportunities to help others make their way, too -- and you find your heart is open, and your wallet is, too, and you can afford it just fine.
If you don't get a great bunk in the recommended albergue, your heart does not break.
If you have to walk another couple of km., you survive. Someone gives you his lower bunk, or lends you a sleeping mat, or tells you where there's a nice haystack. You give your last Compeed to the boy with shredded toes, and you don't fret about having enough for yourself. You walk freely. Free. It's grace. You find it on the Camino.
And when you get home, you realize it's there, too. It always has been. Even after your credential with all the fancy stamps is lost in a drawer, you still can give and receive without judging or fearing the other, because you are free. You've met grace, and she lives in you now.
And when you get home, you realize it's there, too. It always has been. Even after your credential with all the fancy stamps is lost in a drawer, you still can give and receive without judging or fearing the other, because you are free. You've met grace, and she lives in you now.
Thank you, Rebekha!Collecting sellos, pondering payment, wondering over the worthiness of the person asking for support, measuring your church offering according to the building's degree of decoration... it is all a very transactional approach to the pilgrimage. I give you this, I get that. I shop for months in advance, ask everyone which is the Best albergue, route, shoes, socks, prayers, airline, and guidebook. and if my expectations are not met, I complain on the Forum.
Beyond all this noise and preoccupation about Getting and Spending is the truly amazing truth about the Camino, maybe the thing that makes it so special. The Camino trail itself may have become a grab-that-cash theme park in places, but the pilgrim economy, practiced by the pilgrim community, is not based on transactions. It runs on Grace.
Something for nothing. Beauty, kindness, acceptance, brotherhood, in exchange for... just showing up, just walking. Just being what you are is enough. Just a place out of the rain, a bocadillo, a glass of tinto is enough. Yes, you are expected to pay your way. And you have so many opportunities to help others make their way, too -- and you find your heart is open, and your wallet is, too, and you can afford it just fine.
If you don't get a great bunk in the recommended albergue, your heart does not break.
If you have to walk another couple of km., you survive. Someone gives you his lower bunk, or lends you a sleeping mat, or tells you where there's a nice haystack. You give your last Compeed to the boy with shredded toes, and you don't fret about having enough for yourself. You walk freely. Free. It's grace. You find it on the Camino.
And when you get home, you realize it's there, too. It always has been. Even after your credential with all the fancy stamps is lost in a drawer, you still can give and receive without judging or fearing the other, because you are free. You've met grace, and she lives in you now.
Me too. It's the best, wisest, and clearest post in a good long while, and one that bears reading, or re-reading. Thank you, Reb.I got to read Rebekah's wonderful response about grace again...
Collecting sellos, pondering payment, wondering over the worthiness of the person asking for support, measuring your church offering according to the building's degree of decoration... it is all a very transactional approach to the pilgrimage. I give you this, I get that. I shop for months in advance, ask everyone which is the Best albergue, route, shoes, socks, prayers, airline, and guidebook. and if my expectations are not met, I complain on the Forum.
Beyond all this noise and preoccupation about Getting and Spending is the truly amazing truth about the Camino, maybe the thing that makes it so special. The Camino trail itself may have become a grab-that-cash theme park in places, but the pilgrim economy, practiced by the pilgrim community, is not based on transactions. It runs on Grace.
Something for nothing. Beauty, kindness, acceptance, brotherhood, in exchange for... just showing up, just walking. Just being what you are is enough. Just a place out of the rain, a bocadillo, a glass of tinto is enough. Yes, you are expected to pay your way. And you have so many opportunities to help others make their way, too -- and you find your heart is open, and your wallet is, too, and you can afford it just fine.
If you don't get a great bunk in the recommended albergue, your heart does not break.
If you have to walk another couple of km., you survive. Someone gives you his lower bunk, or lends you a sleeping mat, or tells you where there's a nice haystack. You give your last Compeed to the boy with shredded toes, and you don't fret about having enough for yourself. You walk freely. Free. It's grace. You find it on the Camino.
And when you get home, you realize it's there, too. It always has been. Even after your credential with all the fancy stamps is lost in a drawer, you still can give and receive without judging or fearing the other, because you are free. You've met grace, and she lives in you now.
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