• Remove ads on the forum by becoming a donating member. More here.

Search 74,075 Camino Questions

Ups and Downs on the Camino

scruffy1

Veteran Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Holy Year from Pamplona 2010, SJPP 2011, Lisbon 2012, Le Puy 2013, Vezelay (partial watch this space!) 2014; 2015 Toulouse-Puenta la Reina (Arles)
There are many 'What a lovely wonderful day that was' on the Camino but there are also days that are more difficult, 'Thank Goodness that's over'. History shows us that such was always the pilgrims' role.
14th Century Pilgrimage to SdC
Licensees authorizing the owners and captions of ships to carry a fixed number of pilgrims to Spain are still in existence and fill many pages of Thomas Rymer’s book 'Foedera'. They are written in Latin, the name of the ship in French. The pilgrims must swear before leaving England: they must upon their oath do nothing contrary to the obedience and fealty they owe the king; they must not take out of the realm gold or silver or bullion beyond what is necessary to their journey, and they must not reveal the secrets of the realm. Don’t think for a minute that these ships, one hundred pilgrims and crew on a long journey were large, well-appointed vessels. The pilgrims suffered from overcrowding, seasickness, the fear of storms, disgusting smells, and the derision of the sailors. They very much resembled the jam-packed pilgrim ships on the Red Sea of our recent history which brought crowds of believers to Jeddah, Muslims on their way to Mecca. Our example dates from 1394: “Know you that we have given license to Oto Chambernoun, William Gilbert, and Richard Gilbert, to receive and embark in the harbor of Dartmouth a hundred pilgrims in a certain ship belonging to the same Oto, William, and Richard, called la Charite de Paynton, of which Peter Cok I captain; and to take them to Saint James, there to fulfill their vows, and from thence to bring them back to England, freely and without hindrance, notwithstanding ordinances to the contrary.
We got it easy.
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
There are many 'What a lovely wonderful day that was' on the Camino but there are also days that are more difficult, 'Thank Goodness that's over'. History shows us that such was always the pilgrims' role.
14th Century Pilgrimage to SdC
Licensees authorizing the owners and captions of ships to carry a fixed number of pilgrims to Spain are still in existence and fill many pages of Thomas Rymer’s book 'Foedera'. They are written in Latin, the name of the ship in French. The pilgrims must swear before leaving England: they must upon their oath do nothing contrary to the obedience and fealty they owe the king; they must not take out of the realm gold or silver or bullion beyond what is necessary to their journey, and they must not reveal the secrets of the realm. Don’t think for a minute that these ships, one hundred pilgrims and crew on a long journey were large, well-appointed vessels. The pilgrims suffered from overcrowding, seasickness, the fear of storms, disgusting smells, and the derision of the sailors. They very much resembled the jam-packed pilgrim ships on the Red Sea of our recent history which brought crowds of believers to Jeddah, Muslims on their way to Mecca. Our example dates from 1394: “Know you that we have given license to Oto Chambernoun, William Gilbert, and Richard Gilbert, to receive and embark in the harbor of Dartmouth a hundred pilgrims in a certain ship belonging to the same Oto, William, and Richard, called la Charite de Paynton, of which Peter Cok I captain; and to take them to Saint James, there to fulfill their vows, and from thence to bring them back to England, freely and without hindrance, notwithstanding ordinances to the contrary.
We got it easy.
These are fascinating records, @scruffy1 . Thanks for sharing.
 
embark in the harbor of Dartmouth a hundred pilgrims in a certain ship belonging to the same Oto, William, and Richard, called la Charite de Paynton, of which Peter Cok I captain; and to take them to Saint James, there to fulfill their vows, and from thence to bring them back to England, freely and without hindrance, notwithstanding ordinances to the contrary.
So for most living in London etc there was a long trip to Dartmouth for starters - and the destination is not clear either, simply Saint James.

Also I wonder just how many they "brought back" - it seems they walked as a group of 100?
 
3rd Edition. More content, training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
Thomas Rymer’s book 'Foedera'
I had to look this up: Thomas Rhymer lived in the 17th century and his Foedera is a collection of all the leagues, treaties, alliances, capitulations, and confederacies, which have at any time been made between the Crown of England and any other kingdoms, princes and states. It was an immense labour of research and transcription on which he spent the last twenty years of his life. 17 volumes were published, and the collection starts with a royal document of the year 1101.

The licences for the owners and captains of ships to take a tour group of a fixed number of pilgrims to Saint James in Galicia apparently fill page after page in the Foedera and are all drawn after one or two models, varying very little one from the other. They are in Latin with the name of the ship in French, as mentioned above. One of the books that mentions this and is partially accessible online has an image of the ships used. You were bound to get seasick and feel miserable the whole time you were at sea. I think (if I remember correctly) that the crossing from England to Galicia took about a week, and the storms in the Biscaya are legendary. The ships did not have stabilisers. :cool:

medieval sea travel.jpg
Source: Pilgrims and Pilgrimages in J.J. Jusserand, English Wayfaring Life in the Middle Ages.
 
Source: Pilgrims and Pilgrimages in J.J. Jusserand, English Wayfaring Life in the Middle Ages.
I see now that this book is available online as part of the Gutenberg project: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/58530/pg58530-images.html

The first edition was published in 1889. Quote: It must not be thought that these ships, carrying as much as a hundred passengers besides their crew on this rather long journey, were great, well-appointed vessels. They very much resembled the pilgrim-ships of the present day, which carry every year to Jeddah, on the Red Sea, crowds of Arabs on their way to Mecca.

Now the remark about the resemblance of these medieval ships with the jam-packed pilgrim ships on the Red Sea of our recent history which brought crowds of believers to Jeddah, Muslims on their way to Mecca makes more sense to me. That was nearly 150 years ago. I am happy to be corrected but I think that nowadays the pilgrims to Mecca travel very much like the pilgrims to the Camino to Saint James in Galicia: on jam-packed airplanes in economy class. ☺️
 
Gutenberg is marvelous but not always correct, my source may be found here in my library, 1715944489687.png
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
So for most living in London etc there was a long trip to Dartmouth for starters - and the destination is not clear either, simply Saint James.

Also I wonder just how many they "brought back" - it seems they walked as a group of 100?
Hi there @Camo

Plymouth, UK was also licensed to transport pilgrims to Spain...

Last summer as I was walking south I discovered a pilgrimage memorial with scallop shell and plaque embedded into a wall of The Barbican, Plymouth -near to where the ships embarked.

According to the tourist info which I glued into my journal, until the 16th century Plymouth was one of only two ports licensed by the Crown for embarkation of pilgrims to Santiago de Compostella:

20240518_071749.jpg
Plymouth, UK

Buen camino!
 
Hi there @Camo

Plymouth, UK was also licensed to transport pilgrims to Spain...

Last summer as I was walking south I discovered a pilgrimage memorial with scallop shell and plaque embedded into a wall of The Barbican, Plymouth -near to where the ships embarked.

According to the tourist info which I glued into my journal, until the 16th century Plymouth was one of only two ports licensed by the Crown for embarkation of pilgrims to Santiago de Compostella:

View attachment 170617
Plymouth, UK

Buen camino!
It seems latest way is from Reading (to Santander via Southampton) according to this Guardian Article.

I have made a web-app for it but still waiting for Google to activate all the Sat Nav links
 
until the 16th century Plymouth was one of only two ports licensed by the Crown for embarkation of pilgrims to Santiago de Compostella
Jean-Jules Jusserand writes in his book that the royal licences for ship owners and captains to transport pilgrims to Spain or France were delivered initially for a certain number of ports, namely London, Sandwich, Dover, Southhampton, Plymouth, Dartmouth, Bristol, Yarmouth, Saint-Botolph, Kingston-upon-Hull, Newcastle-upon-Tyne and the ports facing Ireland. But, he writes, the following year, 1389, the King allowed pilgrims to depart for the European mainland only from Dover and Plymouth. To depart from other ports required yet another special royal permission. It does not say how long these regulations were in force. Of course, Henry VIII banned pilgrimages as such in 1538.

The book promises to make interesting reading. Originally published in French in 1884 by Hachette in Paris, it shows, imho, how much our current knowledge about pilgrimage in the Middle Ages is due to the works of scholars of the 19th century. A scanned version of the book is on the website of the Bibliothèque national de France BnF.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k201503b
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.

❓How to ask a question

How to post a new question on the Camino Forum.

Most read last week in this forum

https://festivalubedaybaeza.com/ This is a link to the programme for a festival in Ubeda, province of Jaen which may be of interest to some forum members. Includes short video clips of some of the...

Featured threads

❓How to ask a question

How to post a new question on the Camino Forum.

Featured threads

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Camino Updates on YouTube

Camino Conversations

Most downloaded Resources

This site is run by Ivar at

in Santiago de Compostela.
This site participates in the Amazon Affiliate program, designed to provide a means for Ivar to earn fees by linking to Amazon
Official Camino Passport (Credential) | 2024 Camino Guides
Back
Top