What parts of the CF are too rough for a 2 wheel hiking trailer?

[mistermike]

I have a new type of hiking trailer on order that works as a trailer with my pack on it, and it also becomes a backpack itself but it doubles the weight to do so. I can mochila express the trailer in compact mode to my next stop and carry my pack like usual if the track is too rough. The problem is that due to what is now a permanent foot injury I missed the rougher sections of CF on my first Camino.

I will be starting in Logroño this time. What sections of CF are too rough do you think for the trailer? I'm thinking of the rocky section coming down from the silhouettes at Alto Del Perdon, coming down into Uterga. That would be pretty hard going with the trailer on those boulders/rocks.

 

[CWBuff]

Off the top of my head - the "usual" ones
Descent from Alto Perdon
Descent into El Acebo \Molinaseca
Ascent to O'Cebreiro
Ascent after Castrojeriz

You can probably hit couple more rough spots, somewhat "smaller"\shorterpractically anywhere in the mountains and hills
Some will depend on the weather what with mud and such....

Good luck and Buen Camino

 

[alexwalker]

I have a new type of hiking trailer on order that works as a trailer with my pack on it, and it also becomes a backpack itself but it doubles the weight to do so. I can mochila express the trailer in compact mode to my next stop and carry my pack like usual if the track is too rough. The problem is that due to what is now a permanent foot injury I missed the rougher sections of CF on my first Camino.
View attachment 153659View attachment 153658
I'm thinking of the rocky section coming down from the silhouettes at Alto Del Perdon, coming down into Uterga.

Easily avoided by taking right and then all left on the road after Alto del Perdon. The other ascents/decents that @CWBuff mention are also easily avoided by road walking around them

Buen Camino!

 

[Marbe2]

The other ascents/decents that @CWBuff mention are also easily avoided by road walking around them

While I understand what Alex is saying, I would caution you not to try to come down the road from Foncebadon to Molinesca with a trailer. There are not only steep sections, but after Acebo the road narrows significantly and having a trailer behind you in some road areas with no real off road buffer areas could be quite dangerous.

 

[mistermike]

Off the top of my head - the "usual" ones
Descent from Alto Perdon
Descent into El Acebo \Molinaseca
Ascent to O'Cebreiro
Ascent after Castrojeriz

You can probably hit couple more rough spots, somewhat "smaller"\shorterpractically anywhere in the mountains and hills
Some will depend on the weather what with mud and such....

Good luck and Buen Camino

Brilliant thanks, yes short ones I reckon I can handle. I might even wear the pack and pull the empty cart for those bits.

 

[mistermike]

While I understand what Alex is saying, I would caution you not to try to come down the road from Foncebadon to Molinesca with a trailer. There are not only steep sections, but after Acebo the road narrows significantly and having a trailer behind you in some road areas with no real off road buffer areas could be quite dangerous.

Excellent I was worried about bits where it is single path right by the road. The tempation is to put one wheel on the path and one wheel on the road edge. A couple of girls got hit not far from me on CF.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Ascent after Castrojeriz

This shouldn’t be a problem. The surface is excellent.

 

[malingerer]

This shouldn’t be a problem. The surface is excellent.

When in doubt I would push trailer down hill rather than pull it. It helps if you have a braking system on your trolley but either way be careful on blind bends and use your common sense on what side of the road to be on! Best of luck and Buen Camino !

Samarkand.

 

[David]

Malingerer is completely wrong!!! If you take it off and have it in front of you you will be leaning over, it will be unstable, it will be pulling you forward and over, you won't be able to see where your feet are going - it is the Worst idea and based on fear. So NEVER have it in front of you on a descent.

Unlike others I have actually used a trailer on Camino, many times on various sections, quite heavily loaded with my first aid kits and back up first aid supplies as well as personal gear, and never had a problem anywhere. The trick on descents is to take your time, lean back into the harness, and go slow, it feels like leaning back into a comfy armchair (it really does).
If you do slip or lose control just do what skiers do, sit down! All stops, no problem.

But if wet and slippery and super caution is necessary you can unclip the hip belt and use the drawbars only (with it still BEHIND you) so that it can just be dropped if you slip (unlike when wearing a pack and you become unstable and just fall down!). The same with those long shallow 'staircases' in some Spanish towns, unclip, hold drawbars, and walk as usual.
If you drop it the bars will hit the ground and it will just stop, as you may already know.

Worth knowing that on descents it is easily controllable holding just one drawbar so if you want to take a single pole as back up for more stability you can.

The descent from Alto Del Perdon? - no problem whatsoever. I did it a few years ago - steep, huge boulders and rocks, a trailer just 'walks' over them all ... but go slow - and this goes for backpack pilgrims too .. it is steep enough and rough enough to accelerate without meaning too, which leads to falling - slow, steady.

The ascent after Castrojeriz? Is a breeze! Short steps ... the worst thing going up is having to stroll past exhausted sweating straining pilgrims carrying heavy rucksacks, smiling and kissing your hand at them as you pass ....

Wherever your shoulders can go the trailer can go - easy! If doing side of road walking you are more visible than a person with a pack, the mind of a driver sees 'vehicle' although you are no wider than a person really. I fitted mine with flashing bicycle lights.
I also fitted a bicycle bell for when passing pilgrims in narrow places and busy city streets - not needed but is very good comedy.

If you want to take a bus/coach for any reason you will need a separate ticket for the trailer as is seen as cargo, not luggage, so bring a thin light bag to put it in, then you won't be charged.

Is that a Hipstar? I didn't know that he is finally shipping them to customers - excellent!

 

[howardd5]

I have a new type of hiking trailer on order that works as a trailer with my pack on it, and it also becomes a backpack itself but it doubles the weight to do so. I can mochila express the trailer in compact mode to my next stop and carry my pack like usual if the track is too rough. The problem is that due to what is now a permanent foot injury I missed the rougher sections of CF on my first Camino.
View attachment 153659View attachment 153658
I will be starting in Logroño this time. What sections of CF are too rough do you think for the trailer? I'm thinking of the rocky section coming down from the silhouettes at Alto Del Perdon, coming down into Uterga. That would be pretty hard going with the trailer on those boulders/rocks.

The tough day up O’ceberio is not open to wheeled cart , there is a road option for bikes in many rough spots. But you miss quite a bit

 

[David]

Can members who have never used a hiking trailer please stop telling mistermike what is not doable!

The Camino up to O'cebreiro is easily doable with a hiking trailer. I have been up there when it was raining.
It is absolutely no problem at all and much easier than walking it wearing a heavy backpack, People ride horses up it! People push their bikes up it!!!
It looks like this -


Is just a steep stroll with a hiking trailer!

Let me say again - you can go anywhere someone with a backpack can go, and easier, as you have no weight on your body.
A trailer doesn't 'dig in', it wheels over obstacles - it is feet with heavy back packs on that dig in and are unstable on rough surfaces.

 

[CWBuff]

The tough day up O’ceberio is not open to wheeled cart , there is a road option for bikes in many rough spots. But you miss quite a bit

I beg to disagree - respectfully - as I saw people on it not only with trailer but a young couple with a double stroller (they had 2 kids, but not in the stroller at that moment; however it had backpacks and other stuff in it)
I agree with @David to an extend that any path is doable just use common sense and necessary caution.
I would add that the ease and /or difficulty of a given place is and always will be "in the eyes of the beholder", i.e. what's easy for you may not be so for me....
Again, Good luck and Buen Camino

 

[dbeatriceb]

I have a new type of hiking trailer on order that works as a trailer with my pack on it, and it also becomes a backpack itself but it doubles the weight to do so. I can mochila express the trailer in compact mode to my next stop and carry my pack like usual if the track is too rough. The problem is that due to what is now a permanent foot injury I missed the rougher sections of CF on my first Camino.
View attachment 153659View attachment 153658
I will be starting in Logroño this time. What sections of CF are too rough do you think for the trailer? I'm thinking of the rocky section coming down from the silhouettes at Alto Del Perdon, coming down into Uterga. That would be pretty hard going with the trailer on those boulders/rocks.

There are always a road options for bicycle riders, the descent from Cebreiro comes to mind.

 

[scaepio]

Malingerer is completely wrong!!! If you take it off and have it in front of you you will be leaning over, it will be unstable, it will be pulling you forward and over, you won't be able to see where your feet are going - it is the Worst idea and based on fear. So NEVER have it in front of you on a descent.

Unlike others I have actually used a trailer on Camino, many times on various sections, quite heavily loaded with my first aid kits and back up first aid supplies as well as personal gear, and never had a problem anywhere. The trick on descents is to take your time, lean back into the harness, and go slow, it feels like leaning back into a comfy armchair (it really does).
If you do slip or lose control just do what skiers do, sit down! All stops, no problem.

But if wet and slippery and super caution is necessary you can unclip the hip belt and use the drawbars only (with it still BEHIND you) so that it can just be dropped if you slip (unlike when wearing a pack and you become unstable and just fall down!). The same with those long shallow 'staircases' in some Spanish towns, unclip, hold drawbars, and walk as usual.
If you drop it the bars will hit the ground and it will just stop, as you may already know.

Worth knowing that on descents it is easily controllable holding just one drawbar so if you want to take a single pole as back up for more stability you can.

The descent from Alto Del Perdon? - no problem whatsoever. I did it a few years ago - steep, huge boulders and rocks, a trailer just 'walks' over them all ... but go slow - and this goes for backpack pilgrims too .. it is steep enough and rough enough to accelerate without meaning too, which leads to falling - slow, steady.

The ascent after Castrojeriz? Is a breeze! Short steps ... the worst thing going up is having to stroll past exhausted sweating straining pilgrims carrying heavy rucksacks, smiling and kissing your hand at them as you pass ....

Wherever your shoulders can go the trailer can go - easy! If doing side of road walking you are more visible than a person with a pack, the mind of a driver sees 'vehicle' although you are no wider than a person really. I fitted mine with flashing bicycle lights.
I also fitted a bicycle bell for when passing pilgrims in narrow places and busy city streets - not needed but is very good comedy.

If you want to take a bus/coach for any reason you will need a separate ticket for the trailer as is seen as cargo, not luggage, so bring a thin light bag to put it in, then you won't be charged.

Is that a Hipstar? I didn't know that he is finally shipping them to customers - excellent!

Hi, David, I'll be bringing my Wheelie Cargo on an international flight/plane. I am trying to avoid checking bags but it looks like I will have to check the long side bars (~35"x18" if measured as a rectangle). It would ruin everything if the airline loses these bars. I've read all the baggage info for the airline and everything points to them being checked. Any experience with this or thoughts? Thanks.

 

[David]

Hi, David, I'll be bringing my Wheelie Cargo on an international flight/plane. I am trying to avoid checking bags but it looks like I will have to check the long side bars (~35"x18" if measured as a rectangle). It would ruin everything if the airline loses these bars. I've read all the baggage info for the airline and everything points to them being checked. Any experience with this or thoughts? Thanks.

Hi Scaepio - I did have a Wheelie once - great trailer, once you get rid of the bag and put your own long rectangular rucksack on it - that bag is awful! Having the frame go through loops attached to it means you can't take it off without dismantling the whole thing and, unlike a rucksack with lots of compartments is just a big bag that everything disappears down to the bottom in.
But I now use a trailer I made (the Mk 4 now!).

Sorry but I cannot help with aeroplane luggage info as I don't fly. I did once fly from Melbourne to Sydney in 1965 when I missed my ship (I was at a party with a girl - of course) but haven't flown since so have no idea what happens.

I'm sure that others on the forum will have lots of info re safety of checked in luggage - and it might be worth opening a specific thread to do with this - not just your Wheelie frame parts but other items? poles etc? JennyH94 has a trailer and has regularly flown from Aus with hers and never lost anything. Maybe she will post on here? If not you could pm her?
So sorry that I cannot help.
p.s. - my fear would be losing the bolts and Allen key to put it all back together again!!

 

[scaepio]

Hi Scaepio - I did have a Wheelie once - great trailer, once you get rid of the bag and put your own long rectangular rucksack on it - that bag is awful! Having the frame go through loops attached to it means you can't take it off without dismantling the whole thing and, unlike a rucksack with lots of compartments is just a big bag that everything disappears down to the bottom in.
But I now use a trailer I made (the Mk 4 now!).

Sorry but I cannot help with aeroplane luggage info as I don't fly. I did once fly from Melbourne to Sydney in 1965 when I missed my ship (I was at a party with a girl - of course) but haven't flown since so have no idea what happens.

I'm sure that others on the forum will have lots of info re safety of checked in luggage - and it might be worth opening a specific thread to do with this - not just your Wheelie frame parts but other items? poles etc? JennyH94 has a trailer and has regularly flown from Aus with hers and never lost anything. Maybe she will post on here? If not you could pm her?
So sorry that I cannot help.
p.s. - my fear would be losing the bolts and Allen key to put it all back together again!!

You did help me! I will contact Jen. I have already bought duplicate bolts and a duplicate Allen key and will carry them separately. Thanks!

 

[Keyser]

Foncebadon to Molinaseco is very very rough and I would have guess not suited to a 2 wheeled trailer. It was the only section of the CF where I was glad to have two poles & regretted not having a pair of walking boots.

 

[David]

Foncebadon to Molinaseco is very very rough and I would have guess not suited to a 2 wheeled trailer. It was the only section of the CF where I was glad to have two poles & regretted not having a pair of walking boots.

Have you used a hiking trailer on this section?

 

[Keyser]

No, just speculating from the heavily and deeply rutted nature of the terrain.

 

[David]

No, just speculating from the heavily and deeply rutted nature of the terrain.

Ah

 

[Keyser]

Slow down please. I just expressed a qualified opinion based on 40 years + experience of walking on differing terrains. I have no experience of using a trailer, but speculated that the extremely rutted surface could cause problems. If I’m wrong on this I accept my error, but please don’t take it as an attack trailer users. I was just pointing out that this is one of the most uneven sections on the CF.

 

[David]

Slow down please. I just expressed a qualified opinion based on 40 years + experience of walking on differing terrains. I have no experience of using a trailer, but speculated that the extremely rutted surface could cause problems. If I’m wrong on this I accept my error, but please don’t take it as an attack trailer users. I was just pointing out that this is one of the most uneven sections on the CF.

I wish to apologise, have deleted my comment - apologies. It is just that I have been getting frustrated by this for so many years. People who have never used a trailer always think that is heavy, difficult, hard to manoeuvre, unable to go on rough terrain, etc - but all of this is completely untrue.
When the US military did fully combat loaded field tests with trailers they found that energy expenditure was reduced by 84% - 84% !!

The problem on very rough surfaces and ascents and descents rests with those wearing a heavy pack, not towing a trailer, as they are top heavy, unbalanced, they have extra weight and stress on every bone and muscle and ligament from the waist down. If they trip they fall, if they become unstable they fall. They are prone to ankle and knee injuries.
Whereas with a two wheeled trailer (not the monowheel as they are a ghastly unstable design. leaving half the weight on the body) the body carries no huge extra weight at all so is limber and lithe, well balanced, no stresses on limbs, upright relaxed walking ... the trailer is connected to a padded hip belt with drawbars that rest forward of the body ... they are balanced to leave less than half a kilo on the hips, just enough to stop it rocking up and down but be stable ... it has wheels so the trailer isn't pulled over rough ground, it rolls through and over it ....

It takes literally 90 seconds of trying a trailer to get the lightbulb Ah! moment and realise how wonderful they are.
The wheelbase is no wider than shoulders so anywhere a person can walk so can a person with a trailer.
You don't sweat, don't get exhausted, don't get leg, ankle, feet, hips, shoulder problems.

So when I read from anyone who has never ever used a trailer, or probably not even seen one, that a certain section cannot be done with a trailer I get both frustrated and irritated and I mistakenly allow that to spill out.
I say again, I don't know of any section on the Camino Frances that is a problem with a hiking trailer, though do agree that there are very rough sections - as mentioned above, those sections are regularly done by families with trekking buggies!!

All that said you cannot beat the laws of physics. If you walk up a hill from 1,000 feet to 1,500 feet the energy needed to move you up that 500 feet, body and pack, or body and trailer, is exactly the same as pushing it all up vertically 500 feet. The difference being that we 'alter our gearing', same as a bicycle, we take much shorter steps so rise in tiny increments. On the flat you are unaware that your trailer weighs anything at all, it is as if it is not there, but going up hills you are pulling it behind you, the weight of the load plus the weight of the trailer but is very easy and comfortable if short steps are taken. However, to wear a heavy pack going up that same hill is exhausting and much more debilitating.

 

[VNwalking]

the worst thing going up is having to stroll past exhausted sweating straining pilgrims carrying heavy rucksacks, smiling and kissing your hand at them as you pass ....

 

[VNwalking]

If you have never used a hiking trailer, how can you possibly know what's possible? I fail to understand the discouraging posts, all based on imagination and speculation.

@David does know what he's talking about here, though. And what he says sounds quite encouraging. Buen camino @mistermike !

 

[Marbe2]

Mister Mike, I agree that @David is likely the go to guy regarding trailers!

So my comments are not about trailers but about taking the road down from Foncebadon to Molineseca. The road would be a smoother walk. However, If you do, use the road, trailer or no trailer, be aware that there are places, where you really need to anticipate traffic, from behind, and ahead. Sometimes the railings, or boulders, do not provide any ability to walk on the sides of the road. This is true, with or without a trailer. There is simply no extra room in certain spots. If you do descend the road, stay alert, go slow, wait for traffic to pass on both sides in narrow areas. There are some significant curves on the road, which don’t always allow one to see ahead if one follows the “when walking stay to the left rule” that could place one in harms way from traffic coming toward you. Anticipate which side is optimal for oncoming traffic as well as where you have no off road space.

In addition, you indicate that you have a permanent foot injury? Coming down to Acebo and further down to Molinesca will put a lot of stress on your legs. It is a sustained walk that requires continual braking. Lots of folks taxi down from Foncebadon or Acebo to Molineseca. In your situation, is it better to skip a section and possibly avoid injury? Only you can answer that question.

 

[WGroleau]

I’ve been on about half of Camino Francés with a “Cyclone IV Chubby” and a Brompton. Climbing to Alto de Perdón, I had to put the 37 kg Chubby on my back, and a Korean pilgrim talked me into letting him walk the bike. On the other side, a local advised me to take the paved road instead of the trail down.

Much of the path west of Santiago is rough and has lots of rocks and tree roots. Since the bike and trailer wheels are only about 40 cm diameter, dropping into each hole was almost like hitting a wall. Nevertheless, I did make it to Cee, Fisterra, and Muxia.

There were also downhill sections steep enough that it took significant effort to resist the acceleration due to gravity. Including one surprise U-turn where I would have learned to fly were it not for working brakes.

On the meseta, in rainy season, the buildup of clay on the wheels was quite a problem.

 

[mistermike]

Is that a Hipstar? I didn't know that he is finally shipping them to customers - excellent!

Sure is David. Someone started CF a week ago with it but it was stolen in Pamplona. How did you habdle security with your cart?

The hipstar advert shows them walking downhill with it in front., but you are right, how do see what you are going over?

I'm getting the HD variant with the disc brakes. I'm very excited to see how it actually works. Have been a big time hiker and mountain biker when I was younger, I'm keep to see how the variant on 2 wheels (and going much slower!) will help me keep going.

 

[mistermike]

In addition, you indicate that you have a permanent foot injury? Coming down to Acebo and further down to Molinesca will put a lot of stress on your legs. It is a sustained walk that requires continual braking. Lots of folks taxi down from Foncebadon or Acebo to Molineseca. In your situation, is it better to skip a section and possibly avoid injury? Only you can answer that question.

Yeah the injury happened just after the "knee wrecker section" coming into Logrono. My foot was getting sensitive, however coming off the dirt track you come to a road where you walk into Logrono over the bridge. Half way crossing the road, my foot just exploded in pain - on smooth road. I rested a few days and leaving Logrono, I got 3km to that nice landscaped garden section. Walking along a level path it suddenly exploded in pain again. 4 years on and I still don't have a medical diagnosis of what happened, other than it is still there and can be managed by a stiff mid sole, good custom orthotics and a keep as much weight off my foot as I can. I'm actually thinking of doing Porto to SdC instead so the distance is smaller to test it all out this year. All going well, I will take my who family on CF next June. (me, my wife and our boys 16 and 12). My eldest walk with me in 2019 when he was 11 years old, what a trooper!

 

[Marbe2]

Yeah the injury happened just after the "knee wrecker section" coming into Logrono. My foot was getting sensitive, however coming off the dirt track you come to a road where you walk into Logrono over the bridge. Half way crossing the road, my foot just exploded in pain - on smooth road. I rested a few days and leaving Logrono, I got 3km to that nice landscaped garden section. Walking along a level path it suddenly exploded in pain again. 4 years on and I still don't have a medical diagnosis of what happened, other than it is still there and can be managed by a stiff mid sole, good custom orthotics and a keep as much weight off my foot as I can. I'm actually thinking of doing Porto to SdC instead so the distance is smaller to test it all out this year. All going well, I will take my who family on CF next June. (me, my wife and our boys 16 and 12). My eldest walk with me in 2019 when he was 11 years old, what a trooper!

As someone suggested, you might want to use a luggage transfer service to allow less pressure on that foot and ship the trailer completely this time. There is service from Porto.

 

[mistermike]

As someone suggested, you might want to use a luggage transfer service to allow less pressure on that foot and ship the trailer completely this time. There is service from Porto.

Yeah so thats my logic in this thread. Do I ship the trailer as well on the really steep sections? Coastal has less steep stuff to deal with it seems, and this gives me a shorter less risky Camino to get my feet back online and also trial the trailer.

 

[David]

Yeah so thats my logic in this thread. Do I ship the trailer as well on the really steep sections? Coastal has less steep stuff to deal with it seems, and this gives me a shorter less risky Camino to get my feet back online and also trial the trailer.

It is all fear. Be not afraid, just go with your trailer. The frontal brain, terrified of the unknown, throws up safety options but it is all imaginary, it is all fear and destroys a life.
Go with your trailer and work it out as it happens.

Ah - I have just seen the post from you that you have a foot injury that can appear unexpectedly? From what you wrote it would appear that terrain doesn't come into it much - were it me I think I would have it looked at before I went, though you may be running out of time now? The main benefit for you using your trailer is that you will not have any extra weight on your body - result!!

Re that trailer being stolen - no one leaves a bicycle unlocked, too easy to wheel it away, and it is the same for a trailer. I carry a long bicycle cable lock and always secure it - same as a bike. Mine is a combination lock so I don't have a key to lose.
It is a strange balance being a pilgrim on Camino ... open to all but careful .. in Christianity it is "be as innocent as doves but as wise as serpents" and in Islam it is "trust in God but tie up your camel".