Camila Sprague
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- April 2015
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NAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWW!!!Take the bus from Burgos to Leon,missing the meseta.
Totally agree, the Camino experience is not the Camino without experiencing the Meseta. Start in Pamplona or take buses from time to time like Doug suggests on the days you are too weary to walk or the weather is too dismal to face in the morning.NAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWW!!!
Falcon's idea is sound and probably the best , bus a day or two but as Doug says - walk the last 100km. Reb also gives good advice - missing the Meseta is an Absolute No No!
Hi!
I am walking the Camino for the first time this year with my husband and another couple of friends. Unfortunately we will not have enough time to walk all the way as we need to get back to work..., but we will start it in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port and finish it Santiago de Compostela, so we will need to "skip" some places to be able do finish the walk in only 28 days! I would love your advice/expertise to help us to make the most of these days.
THE PLAN => We will start our journey in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port on the 18-April-2015 and will leave Santiago on the 15-May-2015 (so, only 28 days in total), but we would love to spend 3 days in Santiago to rest and to enjoy the place before we fly back to England, which gives us only 25 days to walk.
THE QUESTIONS => Which places should we "sacrifice"? I mean, were along the way we can catch a bus/taxi/train (?) to skip a few places and save time in the journey? Is it easy to do?
TRAVEL CONDITIONS (and health)=> We are all in early 40's, non-smokers, good health and all in good shape but far from super-fit! so I imagine that our walking pace will be average...
Thank you in advance for any tips you guys can give us!
OK OK OK DON'T miss the damn Meseta,mind you i did and happy to have done so
Ooohhhy! You missed the Meseta!? How can you be happy if you dont know what you missed?
There is probably a stretch that I could recommend skipping. After staying at the Parroquial Albergue at Tosantos and seeing the church hewed out of a cliff face , take a bus or taxi to Burgos. This will save 2 to 3 days.Bus routes parallel the Camino for most of its distance, so just take a bus when you feel like it. It typically is 1.50 - 3E for a segment up to about 20km.
skip the ugly sections entering león and burgos (but don't skip these cities), i haven't walkd into burgos for a while, but i remember it being horrible. in fact, the whole stretch between mansilla de mulas and astorga is not that exciting.Hi!
I am walking the Camino for the first time this year with my husband and another couple of friends. Unfortunately we will not have enough time to walk all the way as we need to get back to work..., but we will start it in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port and finish it Santiago de Compostela, so we will need to "skip" some places to be able do finish the walk in only 28 days! I would love your advice/expertise to help us to make the most of these days.
THE PLAN => We will start our journey in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port on the 18-April-2015 and will leave Santiago on the 15-May-2015 (so, only 28 days in total), but we would love to spend 3 days in Santiago to rest and to enjoy the place before we fly back to England, which gives us only 25 days to walk.
THE QUESTIONS => Which places should we "sacrifice"? I mean, were along the way we can catch a bus/taxi/train (?) to skip a few places and save time in the journey? Is it easy to do?
TRAVEL CONDITIONS (and health)=> We are all in early 40's, non-smokers, good health and all in good shape but far from super-fit! so I imagine that our walking pace will be average...
Thank you in advance for any tips you guys can give us!
Hi!
I am walking the Camino for the first time this year with my husband and another couple of friends. Unfortunately we will not have enough time to walk all the way as we need to get back to work..., but we will start it in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port and finish it Santiago de Compostela, so we will need to "skip" some places to be able do finish the walk in only 28 days! I would love your advice/expertise to help us to make the most of these days.
THE PLAN => We will start our journey in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port on the 18-April-2015 and will leave Santiago on the 15-May-2015 (so, only 28 days in total), but we would love to spend 3 days in Santiago to rest and to enjoy the place before we fly back to England, which gives us only 25 days to walk.
THE QUESTIONS => Which places should we "sacrifice"? I mean, were along the way we can catch a bus/taxi/train (?) to skip a few places and save time in the journey? Is it easy to do?
TRAVEL CONDITIONS (and health)=> We are all in early 40's, non-smokers, good health and all in good shape but far from super-fit! so I imagine that our walking pace will be average...
Thank you in advance for any tips you guys can give us!
I met two German soldiers committed to 50km per day. One was enjoying it, the other was not. There is no guessing what brings enjoyment.
Agree completely. IMHO, the Meseta is a place for contemplation and easy walking. Do not miss it. You are young and reasonably fit (I am 61). You can do it.Just start in Pamplona and walk without skipping. You skip the meseta, you skip the real heart of the camino.
Noooooooo, please don't, you'll miss so much of that true Camino vibe!!!Take the bus from Burgos to Leon,missing the meseta.
I agree with you completely.the camino is supposed to be a pilgrimage, not a sight-seeing hike. A pilgrim walks the tarmac, the city streets, the wildflower fields, the boring parts, the scary highway parts, even the "spiritually un-nourishing" parts. He takes the good with the bad, because it's all a part of the camino. If you skip out on any of it, you're missing something. That's why I'd recommend walking from Pamplona... so you don't have to skip ANYTHING.
Unless you are injured or ill or you gotta get to the airport right away, don't skip anything. You are coming all this way to walk the camino. If you really want to do the camino, do the entire camino!
Agree. Period. It is a blessing and a reward. It is actually crazy to come all the way to walk the way, and then trying to avoid it...the camino is supposed to be a pilgrimage, not a sight-seeing hike. A pilgrim walks the tarmac, the city streets, the wildflower fields, the boring parts, the scary highway parts, even the "spiritually un-nourishing" parts. He takes the good with the bad, because it's all a part of the camino. If you skip out on any of it, you're missing something. That's why I'd recommend walking from Pamplona... so you don't have to skip ANYTHING.
Unless you are injured or ill or you gotta get to the airport right away, don't skip anything. You are coming all this way to walk the camino. If you really want to do the camino, do the entire camino!
Bus from Najera to Burgos will skip 3 days and a train from Sahagun to Leon will skip 2.5 days. That should put you in your 28 day frame depending on how fast you walk and you will not have skipped the two biggest cities on the Camino. A bus from Ponferrada to Villafranca will gain you the best part of another day if you need itHi!
I am walking the Camino for the first time this year with my husband and another couple of friends. Unfortunately we will not have enough time to walk all the way as we need to get back to work..., but we will start it in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port and finish it Santiago de Compostela, so we will need to "skip" some places to be able do finish the walk in only 28 days! I would love your advice/expertise to help us to make the most of these days.
THE PLAN => We will start our journey in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port on the 18-April-2015 and will leave Santiago on the 15-May-2015 (so, only 28 days in total), but we would love to spend 3 days in Santiago to rest and to enjoy the place before we fly back to England, which gives us only 25 days to walk.
THE QUESTIONS => Which places should we "sacrifice"? I mean, were along the way we can catch a bus/taxi/train (?) to skip a few places and save time in the journey? Is it easy to do?
TRAVEL CONDITIONS (and health)=> We are all in early 40's, non-smokers, good health and all in good shape but far from super-fit! so I imagine that our walking pace will be average...
Thank you in advance for any tips you guys can give us!
I don't know about the heart of the Camino, but that day of walking in a straight line, only with a blue sky and flat fields, under a hot sun is something not to be missed. Nowhere else had I seen such a perspective. Very special.Just start in Pamplona and walk without skipping. You skip the meseta, you skip the real heart of the camino.
That's because where the Camino goes is not along the highway ;0)I didn't like what i saw from the bus window lol.
If the people you starting walking with, the ones ahead of you are likely to also be interesting. And you get to meet more people, hear more stories.I would follow REbekah's suggestion, start in Pamplona. If you skip a segment, do bear in mind that you will stop seeing familiar faces for a while, since you will have left your camino mates behind you, you might be sorry to do that if you have met interesting people...
Agree on busing in and out of Burgos and Leon but if you do not walk into Astorga you will miss Davide and his Casa de Dios? His barn on top of a plateau where he offers organic fruit and veggies (I assume he is still there?) . But yeah, the rest of the walk, with useless ups and downs that could be replaced by zip line, is a bit of a bore.skip the ugly sections entering león and burgos (but don't skip these cities), i haven't walkd into burgos for a while, but i remember it being horrible. in fact, the whole stretch between mansilla de mulas and astorga is not that exciting.
lots of local buses, ask at the local bars for bus times if you cannot find on the internet
OK for 1 and 2, but 3 is a big no no, not because it's mystical, but because it will shape your perception of the planet we live on. Never will you have seen such sky and flat land.Kind of hard to get a straight answer on this forum, huh? More people are going to recommend not skipping any of the CF, even though you already said you need to skip some of it due to time constraints.
Anyway, free of philosophical meanderings, here's three days I would shave off in your situation:
(1) The stretch going into Burgos. It's just an urban, indistrial sprawl. Nothing that great to see.
(2) The stretch leaving Leon. Again, a lot of urban sprawl.
(3) The stretch of the meseta out of Carrion de los Condes. Don't worry. There are are stretches of the meseta to see. This is just a stretch that if you skip you won't really miss a thing. I know a lot of people on this forum will make it out to be some sort of mystical, bleak section of Spain, but what la meseta really is just flat terrain where they grow a lot of crops. Don't get me wrong, it is pretty, but you can skip one day of it and not miss a thing.
OK with 1 and 2. But I'd change 3 to be, take the train from Sahagún to Leon.Kind of hard to get a straight answer on this forum, huh? More people are going to recommend not skipping any of the CF, even though you already said you need to skip some of it due to time constraints.
Anyway, free of philosophical meanderings, here's three days I would shave off in your situation:
(1) The stretch going into Burgos. It's just an urban, indistrial sprawl. Nothing that great to see.
(2) The stretch leaving Leon. Again, a lot of urban sprawl.
(3) The stretch of the meseta out of Carrion de los Condes. Don't worry. There are are stretches of the meseta to see. This is just a stretch that if you skip you won't really miss a thing. I know a lot of people on this forum will make it out to be some sort of mystical, bleak section of Spain, but what la meseta really is just flat terrain where they grow a lot of crops. Don't get me wrong, it is pretty, but you can skip one day of it and not miss a thing.
Guess you never been to Montana or Wyoming.....OK for 1 and 2, but 3 is a big no no, not because it's mystical, but because it will shape your perception of the planet we live on. Never will you have seen such sky and flat land.
Bus from Najera to Burgos will skip 3 days ...........
Hi!
I am walking the Camino for the first time this year with my husband and another couple of friends. Unfortunately we will not have enough time to walk all the way as we need to get back to work...,
THE PLAN => We will start our journey in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port on the 18-April-2015 and will leave Santiago on the 15-May-2015 (so, only 28 days in total), but we would love to spend 3 days in Santiago to rest and to enjoy the place before we fly back to England, which gives us only 25 days to walk.
THE QUESTIONS => Which places should we "sacrifice"? I mean, were along the way we can catch a bus/taxi/train (?) to skip a few places and save time in the journey? Is it easy to do?
Thank you in advance for any tips you guys can give us!
Whatever happened to "Walk whichever way works best for you; it's your Camino"?
Quite true. But the OP did not say anything about a pilgrimage. She said she was going to walk the Camino with her husband and a couple of friends, from SJPP to Santiago and, since their time was limited, she was asking for help deciding which places to skip. Not everyone who walks the Camino is there for the pilgrimage aspect of it. We realized this two weeks into the Frances when we learned that a British couple we had got to know had up and left. Their reason for leaving apparently was that there were far prettier walks in their home country than they were finding on the Camino.It might be "your camino," but if it's a pilgrimage you came for, you may be disappointed.
Is that surprising when a poster asks a question for which all answers are opinion?a passion for our own viewpoint can very easily sound a little judgemental.
Is that surprising when a poster asks a question for which all answers are opinion?
Taking the train from Burgos until Sahagun saves you a few days. You can save a few days and keep you in schedule whilst letting you experience a few days in the Meseta.
Agree completely. IMHO, the Meseta is a place for contemplation and easy walking. Do not miss it. You are young and reasonably fit (I am 61). You can do it.
A section well worth avoiding is Leon-Astorga. Terrible on the way out of Leon, and lots of road walking. I will skip it this year.
Well I was basing that on a fairly fit 5km/hr at least pilgrim. Probably close to 6 for me too. Not planning to skip any myself but then I have plenty of time so I reckoned that was a good option to make 28 days doable for the original questionerWaaaayy!! Thats 6 of my days? Missing Granón or Acacio y Orietta? .... NAAAWWWW!!
FletchaCadaDia, I think you have hit the nail on the head! One thinks that they need to start in SJPP, for various reasons, but it seems that this Forum has gradually leant to the idea that SJPP in THE starting point for the Francés. In fact, should you wish to start your Pilgrimage in France, following the Camino Francés, then the starting point should be at Ostabad, where various routes join up!To me, so much of the experience is that unbroken walking. The chain you are creating with your steps. I think that experience is more meaningful than particular landscapes (as beautiful as the pass from SJPP to Roncesvalles may be.) If you're sure you don't have time to walk from SJPP, I would recommend walking from closer by, as Reb and others suggest.
Remember: the pilgrimage is much older than busses and planes, so there is no definite starting point. In centuries past, people started from home; they didn't fly/train to SJPP. And all the French pilgrims started from home, walked to one of four French routes--three of which connect at Ostabat, a day before SJPP. This is to say that SJPP is a sort of arbitrary starting point--it's not THE start of THE Camino. (Just the start of the Camino Frances portion of it.) So, it's not that you're "not doing the whole thing" if you miss SJPP. There is no whole thing. For me, the real feeling of incompleteness could come from not contiguously walking.
Blessings and Ultreya!
After all the cafes con leche, I calculate 3km an hour ;0)Well I was basing that on a fairly fit 5km/hr at least pilgrim. Probably close to 6 for me too. Not planning to skip any myself but then I have plenty of time so I reckoned that was a good option to make 28 days doable for the original questioner
we will start it in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port and finish it Santiago de Compostela, so we will need to "skip" some places to be able do finish the walk in only 28 days!
what la meseta really is, is just flat terrain where they grow a lot of crops.
we learned that a British couple we had got to know had up and left. Their reason for leaving apparently was that there were far prettier walks in their home country than they were finding on the Camino.
Ummm, yeah sure. OK.....As a mesetarian Castilian, I'll tell you the meseta is (much) more than that but it seems you've yet to discover it.
OK OK OK DON'T miss the damn Meseta,mind you i did and happy to have done so
Is that your walking speed? 6km/ph?Well I was basing that on a fairly fit 5km/hr at least pilgrim. Probably close to 6 for me too. Not planning to skip any myself but then I have plenty of time so I reckoned that was a good option to make 28 days doable for the original questioner
Please remember that OP Camila is walking with 3 other people, therefore all sorts of scenarios can appear. If they want to stay together, then they have to adjust to the slowest of the group. In my opinion, under the circumstances, 28 days from SJPP is asking too much.Well I was basing that on a fairly fit 5km/hr at least pilgrim. Probably close to 6 for me too. Not planning to skip any myself but then I have plenty of time so I reckoned that was a good option to make 28 days doable for the original questioner
Well Mark , it is true - those first few days on the Meseta are surreal as if one was in another world?Ummm, yeah sure. OK.....
Why? Why happy to have done so?
I was meeting a very attractive young lady in Leon
Zoaaa! Herr Duffy , Zee plot is thickening ja!? ............ wait a bit? I'm not German?
Sorry, it just doesn't come across that way to me. It's pretty and has its own charm and is very much a part of the CF experience, but looks like other places I have been.Well Mark , it is true - those first few days on the Meseta are surreal as if one was in another world?
Pesonally would not want to do it in 28 days but unfortunately, not everyone is like me, retired with all the time in the worldPlease remember that OP Camila is walking with 3 other people, therefore all sorts of scenarios can appear. If they want to stay together, then they have to adjust to the slowest of the group. In my opinion, under the circumstances, 28 days from SJPP is asking too much.
I wish, no 6 hours to do what others do in 3 to 4. I am the tortoise to most pilgrims hareIs that your walking speed? 6km/ph?
Hi!
I am walking the Camino for the first time this year with my husband and another couple of friends. Unfortunately we will not have enough time to walk all the way as we need to get back to work..., but we will start it in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port and finish it Santiago de Compostela, so we will need to "skip" some places to be able do finish the walk in only 28 days! I would love your advice/expertise to help us to make the most of these days.
THE PLAN => We will start our journey in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port on the 18-April-2015 and will leave Santiago on the 15-May-2015 (so, only 28 days in total), but we would love to spend 3 days in Santiago to rest and to enjoy the place before we fly back to England, which gives us only 25 days to walk.
THE QUESTIONS => Which places should we "sacrifice"? I mean, were along the way we can catch a bus/taxi/train (?) to skip a few places and save time in the journey? Is it easy to do?
TRAVEL CONDITIONS (and health)=> We are all in early 40's, non-smokers, good health and all in good shape but far from super-fit! so I imagine that our walking pace will be average...
Thank you in advance for any tips you guys can give us!
.......... NOT to be missed (my opinion only) and absolutely essential in no particular order are O'Cebriero, Hontanas, Puente la Reina, Navarette, Najera, Santo Domingo, Burgos Castrojeriz,Carrion,Leon, Hospital D'orbigo, Astorga Foncebadon, Molinaseca, Ponferrada, Cacabelos, Villafranca, Melide, and Santiago............
skip the ugly sections entering león and burgos (but don't skip these cities), i haven't walkd into burgos for a while, but i remember it being horrible. in fact, the whole stretch between mansilla de mulas and astorga is not that exciting.
lots of local buses, ask at the local bars for bus times if you cannot find on the internet[/Q
It seems we all have had good experiences in different places. I tend to think of the people I have met, food and wine, albergue's and special places within a village and that is bound to differ from everyones personal tastes and preferences. All in all if I wrote the list again it would probably be different.Mmmmm , interesting - almost half of your 'not to be missed' towns or cities ........dare I say it Jaco , have been chopped by other forum members.
Really? Limb amputation? Eye gouging? And the "Sophie's Choice" analogy? Good Lord. Is that an appropriate comparison to make when discussing which towns to bypass while on a holiday (of sorts).Asking that question is like asking "which limb would you like to cut off?", "Which eye can you do without" Sophie's Choice? My advice might be to use Santiago as the end point and count backwards to a starting point which co-incides with your allotted time but I couldn't do it. Otherwise draw city names from a hat. NOT to be missed (my opinion only) and absolutely essential in no particular order are O'Cebriero, Hontanas, Puente la Reina, Navarette, Najera, Santo Domingo, Burgos Castrojeriz,Carrion,Leon, Hospital D'orbigo, Astorga Foncebadon, Molinaseca, Ponferrada, Cacabelos, Villafranca, Melide, and Santiago. At the very least try to squeeze a bus ride to Finisterre in!
Buen Camino! Im glad I don't have to make the decision
Really? this one takes the cake.
Reality check time....
Agreed Dog , this thread has been great fun , some members have been perhaps a tad too serious but all in all the OP now has an invaluble insight as to what options there are and adding all these up , there are probably only 2 or 3 messages that keep on reoccurring so I think we've done a good job here.Oh lighten up! We can convolute a thread much worse than that!
There is a much prettier alternative to entering Burgos, via parkland. It was really great, other than the local 'flasher' who caught us unaware!
The meseta was one of my favorite partsTake the bus from Burgos to Leon,missing the meseta.
I really like the idea of just starting in Pamplona. One could always even just do a long weekend of SJPD--Pamplona in the future if they really felt they missed somethingOnce you opt for modern transportation the entire trip becomes a bit artificial. The option of hopping on a bus becomes part of the daily decision.
Start this year in Pamplona. Next year go back and walk LePuy to Pamplona.
The meseta was one of my favorite parts
Agreed Dog , this thread has been great fun , some members have been perhaps a tad too serious but all in all the OP now has an invaluble insight as to what options there are and adding all these up , there are probably only 2 or 3 messages that keep on reoccurring so I think we've done a good job here.
Oh lighten up! We can convolute a thread much worse than that!
Agreed Dog , this thread has been great fun , some members have been perhaps a tad too serious but all in all the OP now has an invaluble insight as to what options there are and adding all these up , there are probably only 2 or 3 messages that keep on reoccurring so I think we've done a good job here.
Really? Limb amputation? Eye gouging? And the "Sophie's Choice" analogy? Good Lord. Is that an appropriate comparison to make when discussing which towns to bypass while on a holiday (of sorts).
I always cringe a bit when a new poster asks a simple question about what to see, where to go or stay or what to bring, as at times they are given such roundabout, meandering answers. It's rare when 1+1=2 with the advice, but this one takes the cake.
Reality check time....
Okay, Okay Mark , we missed your first forum birthday - sorry Bud.......... do I have to elaborate any further?
Hi!
I am walking the Camino for the first time this year with my husband and another couple of friends. Unfortunately we will not have enough time to walk all the way as we need to get back to work..., but we will start it in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port and finish it Santiago de Compostela, so we will need to "skip" some places to be able do finish the walk in only 28 days! I would love your advice/expertise to help us to make the most of these days.
THE PLAN => We will start our journey in St.Jean-Pied-de-Port on the 18-April-2015 and will leave Santiago on the 15-May-2015 (so, only 28 days in total), but we would love to spend 3 days in Santiago to rest and to enjoy the place before we fly back to England, which gives us only 25 days to walk.
THE QUESTIONS => Which places should we "sacrifice"? I mean, were along the way we can catch a bus/taxi/train (?) to skip a few places and save time in the journey? Is it easy to do?
TRAVEL CONDITIONS (and health)=> We are all in early 40's, non-smokers, good health and all in good shape but far from super-fit! so I imagine that our walking pace will be average...
Thank you in advance for any tips you guys can give us!
OMG Renshaw, OUCH! From a good friend of the Forum and my fellow pilgrims. We love you MarkOkay, Okay Mark , we missed your first forum birthday - sorry Bud.
Back to the original question from Camila Sprague, John Brierley approves skipping Stage 19, and his guide, 12th ed. (2015) reads: “There is the possibility to avoid the busy (and dangerous) main road into (and out of) Leon by taking the bus from Mansilla directly to the city centre (1,65 EUR).” And then “. . . bus it to La Virgin del Camino . . . the following morning.” Stage 19 should be your first deletion when time is short.For someone planning her first Camino for June 2016, this thread is very helpful. It's an unfortunate reality that we have time restrictions due to our jobs and other circumstances. Another important restriction is if we live in another continent, which makes the possibility of walking the Camino in installments somewhat expensive. Reading these posts helps me think of possibilities within our time/distance constraints, while keeping in mind the reasons why we want to undertake our Camino and the certainty that the experience will change us in ways I can't foresee right now. So, thanks everyone!
A huge part of that is - no decisions. Once you start mucking about with picking bits, you lose that wonderful freedom that comes with not making decisions.
Those two sentences sum it all up better than anything I have ever read on the subject.
Dutch, no and not the Camino Czar either. I agree, but he implies that skipping Stage 19 is a good idea. You were there in 2013. Is it ugly?John Brierley approves? Euhhh.....Is he the camino god? Brierley wrote a guidebook, nothing more, nothing less.
(Sorry MechEngr69, dont mean this personal)
Back to the original question from Camila Sprague, John Brierley approves skipping Stage 19, and his guide, 12th ed. (2015) reads: “There is the possibility to avoid the busy (and dangerous) main road into (and out of) Leon by taking the bus from Mansilla directly to the city centre (1,65 EUR).” And then “. . . bus it to La Virgin del Camino . . . the following morning.” Stage 19 should be your first deletion when time is short.
Ohhh! Dutch you just poked one into the Tar Baby my friend.John Brierley approves? Euhhh.....Is he the camino god? Brierley wrote a guidebook, nothing more, nothing less.
(Sorry MechEngr69, dont mean this personal)
Dutch, no and not the Camino Czar either. I agree, but he implies that skipping Stage 19 is a good idea. You were there in 2013. Is it ugly?
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