Cndnwalker
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- February 2018
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That may be a bit of a long shot. Spain has snow plows. It has road chemicals. It has sunshine that warms the pavement. Ice is pretty rare; much rarer than snow, which is not common between Burgos and Leon. Unless you are in a bind for time, arranging for a bicycle between Burgos and Leon may be more trouble than it is worth. A backpack on a bicycle can be very tiring; panniers are more common for bicycle pilgrims. They keep the weight off your shoulders and waist as you lean on the handlebars.Had not considered biking on icy roads
That may be a bit of a long shot. Spain has snow plows. It has road chemicals. It has sunshine that warms the pavement. Ice is pretty rare; much rarer than snow, which is not common between Burgos and Leon. Unless you are in a bind for time, arranging for a bicycle between Burgos and Leon may be more trouble than it is worth. A backpack on a bicycle can be very tiring; panniers are more common for bicycle pilgrims. They keep the weight off your shoulders and waist as you lean on the handlebars.
I have been cold inside albergues in winter, but never so cold that layered clothing inside my 25 degree sleeping bad has not been sufficient. It is not a trek through mountains. It is a bed-to-bed jaunt where someone else makes your meals! Unless you self-cater, of course.
I've enjoyed one winter Camino and hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did. For your questions:
1) I went with a -7c down sleeping bag the first time but this January I'm only taking a +2 down quilt. Weighs about 1.5lbs less and will be fine for temp. Can always wear my base layers to bed if it's really cold at night.
2) For me a pad is def not worth the weight. The beds in the Albergues are fine.
3) I'd recommend a variety of layers for all parts of your Camino. I carry/wear a icebreaker wool t-shirt, long-sleeved t-shirt and long underwear for base layers and sleeping kit. I also carry a long-sleeved button-up and a lightweight down thermal layer as well as my gortex rain shell and rain pants. As the weather warms you can just wear the lighter pieces as you need based on the temp. I'm a pretty warm person in general but shorts don't make the packing list for me.
4) The snow and mud can be very significant this time of the year so I'm firmly in the gortex hiking boot camp. I wear smartwool hiking socks in them. I've used Lowas and Salomon boots and neither has allowed any wetness inside and it's cool enough that there has been no sweating from the inside. I do wear gortex rain pants too so that help mitigate any wetness from deeper snow or splashing mud or water.
5) I use Motion-X GPS on my iPhone and have been very pleased with it. Does well enough with the GPS side but also very easy to share the day's summary and track with family back home either be Facebook or direct email. I will chew through the battery life so I use an battery bank to supplement through the day. Never run out of battery yet.
6) There was so much mud on the Meseta when I walked in the winter a bike would be a non-starter. Mud caked to my boots so badly that walking was almost a non-starter!
7) A SPOT is probably just unnecessary weight. This isn't a wilderness trek without wifi or cellular coverage. Just buy a Spanish sim card and send a quick email or text. Virtually every bar and Albergue has wifi now so you'll likely not even need much in the way of data services anyway. I buy mine from: www.simcardspain.es/en/ and they deliver the activated card with the service/data loaded and ready to go right to my house in BC. In Spain I top it up online as needed with my Canadian Visa card, very convenient and easy to do plus you arrive in country with a functioning phone service.
Good luck and Buen Camino!!
Jordon
Do you plan to take a poncho? I wouldn't go without rain pants - they are good insulation from the cold, good for the inevitable rain, and you can even wear them while your laundry is drying.Hasn’t considered rain paints but I will.
Do you plan to take a poncho? I wouldn't go without rain pants - they are good insulation from the cold, good for the inevitable rain, and you can even wear them while your laundry is drying.
Do you plan to take a poncho? I wouldn't go without rain pants - they are good insulation from the cold, good for the inevitable rain, and you can even wear them while your laundry is drying.
I've enjoyed one winter Camino and hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did. For your questions:
1) I went with a -7c down sleeping bag the first time but this January I'm only taking a +2 down quilt. Weighs about 1.5lbs less and will be fine for temp. Can always wear my base layers to bed if it's really cold at night.
2) For me a pad is def not worth the weight. The beds in the Albergues are fine.
3) I'd recommend a variety of layers for all parts of your Camino. I carry/wear a icebreaker wool t-shirt, long-sleeved t-shirt and long underwear for base layers and sleeping kit. I also carry a long-sleeved button-up and a lightweight down thermal layer as well as my gortex rain shell and rain pants. As the weather warms you can just wear the lighter pieces as you need based on the temp. I'm a pretty warm person in general but shorts don't make the packing list for me.
4) The snow and mud can be very significant this time of the year so I'm firmly in the gortex hiking boot camp. I wear smartwool hiking socks in them. I've used Lowas and Salomon boots and neither has allowed any wetness inside and it's cool enough that there has been no sweating from the inside. I do wear gortex rain pants too so that help mitigate any wetness from deeper snow or splashing mud or water.
5) I use Motion-X GPS on my iPhone and have been very pleased with it. Does well enough with the GPS side but also very easy to share the day's summary and track with family back home either be Facebook or direct email. I will chew through the battery life so I use an battery bank to supplement through the day. Never run out of battery yet.
6) There was so much mud on the Meseta when I walked in the winter a bike would be a non-starter. Mud caked to my boots so badly that walking was almost a non-starter!
7) A SPOT is probably just unnecessary weight. This isn't a wilderness trek without wifi or cellular coverage. Just buy a Spanish sim card and send a quick email or text. Virtually every bar and Albergue has wifi now so you'll likely not even need much in the way of data services anyway. I buy mine from: www.simcardspain.es/en/ and they deliver the activated card with the service/data loaded and ready to go right to my house in BC. In Spain I top it up online as needed with my Canadian Visa card, very convenient and easy to do plus you arrive in country with a functioning phone service.
Good luck and Buen Camino!!
Jordon
My husband has been working on the National Trails of the UK and always carries one button up hiking shirt, one long sleeved Icebreaker and one short sleeved. He wears the button shirt as his evening in town shirt. On the CF I don't think it is necessary except maybe if you spend time in Madrid.Re the button up shirt - is it necessary to have a set of “nice” clothes or top? I hadn’t considered that.
We use the SPOTs in the back country when we don't have cell signals but when you walk the Camino you'll have coverage the whole way and a text can say a couple of nice words and include a photo of you in front of yet another 1,000 year old bridgeJo, looks like you’re a fellow Canuck! Forgot to mention about the spot, the great thing is that you press one button and it sends all of your contacts an update saying you’re ok and where you are. My family and friends typically like following along with my progress.
Re the button up shirt - is it necessary to have a set of “nice” clothes or top? I hadn’t considered that.
We use the SPOTs in the back country when we don't have cell signals but when you walk the Camino you'll have coverage the whole way and a text can say a couple of nice words and include a photo of you in front of yet another 1,000 year old bridge. I send my MotionX-GPS track via Facebook and email at the end of everyday to the family back home with a few photos. With MotionX my wife can also see where I am in live time too. Can't decide if she is worried if I'm dead on the side of the trail or in the bar with the mates
My button-up is a Mountain Hardware hiking shirt but 'Nice' clothes (aka city clothes) aren't necessary at all. Your fellow Pilgrims will be dressed in their walking kit whether walking, eating or at a church service. It is our uniform and is very accepted by locals. As an aside, I do travel in other clothes/shoes and before I start walking in Spain I mail them to Ivar with my backpack airporter bag. He has a great bag storage service and has interesting things to share when you meet him in SDC.
Some rain gear, be it pants, the oft talked about Altus poncho (really a long rain coat as I see it) or some other covering would be well worth considering. There were numerous days when the wind was driving the snow so hard that not only did it keep me dry but warm as well. Over the Pyrenees the snow was over knee deep so without my pants I'd have been pretty miserable by Roncesvalles!!
Ok, I will look into getting some rain pants. No poncho! just not a fan.
I had considered a luggage delivery as I’m visiting a friend in Europe first - but I will have to figure out a way to send my suitcase from SJDP.
You may want to consider a pair of gaiters. They are made for slogging around in snow and sleet, while the condensation in rain pants will make you wet from within. In February, I'd happily take the weight penalty from a light pair of gaiters
The CF is heavily marked, but wintery conditions can be somewhat of a game changer. Quite a few markers are embedded in or painted on the road, and thus easily covered by snow. Higher placed markers can be obscured by sleet or frost. Plus there's the risk of foggy and/or low-light conditions, where some of the markers can be easy to overlook. I know from personal experience, that you only need to overlook one single marker. Usually the locals are a great help, but they have this strange strange tendency to stay indoors in the aforementioned wintery conditions. Easily handled with a good app on a smartphone, or even with something as old fashioned as a map. I always bring a compass.
As for the sleeping bag, any decent three season bag should be a good choice. Personally, I'd bring a 0*C/30*F quilt, plus the silk liner I always bring.
Thanks everyone for the answers so far. As for the sleeping pad, I meant whether it is useful or necessary in addition to the beds in the Albuerges. I guess I’m probably anticipating colder nights than what they will be.
Hmmm .... now do I take my 0 degree (“summer”) sleeping bag? I think I’d rather be too hot than too cold so no.
Sounds like the footwear may be the biggest issue so I will try a waterproof sock and Gore-Tex boot combo.
Had not considered biking on icy roads - that truthfully doesn’t sound too great! I will prob have to wait and see how the weather is before I make that decision!
Appreciate everyone’s helpful input.
We walked January and Feb, and it was very cold and often slushy underfoot - we had leather boots with a goretex lining, so no wet feet. I think drying wet boots would be difficult, the heat only goes on for a couple of hours in the evening anywhere we stayed. I must admit that my idea of perishingly cold may be different than yours, as I'm from Sydney where we have a very mild climate with no snow ever. But there was often crunchy thick frost on the ground in the morning, and the wind was often biting. I agree with all the replies above, all good advice. I (and many others ) have put packing lists in other threads, and mine was from the winter camino, so it could be helpful. You will be alone a lot, for long periods, in isolated places, so I'm pleased you have given thought to that aspect of safety. What I'm saying all sounds a bit daunting but we really did love our winter camino!
I think drying wet boots would be difficult
Thanks everyone for the answers so far. As for the sleeping pad, I meant whether it is useful or necessary in addition to the beds in the Albuerges. I guess I’m probably anticipating colder nights than what they will be.
Hmmm .... now do I take my 0 degree (“summer”) sleeping bag? I think I’d rather be too hot than too cold so no.
Appreciate everyone’s helpful input.
I've taken hikes where a down jacket isn't called for but I take the detachable hood off a very warm down jacket that I have. If the wind starts blowing I can cover my head and my ears and, if caught out for the night, I've got a lot of warmth for carrying just a little weight. I've also slept in sleeping bags using the jacket hood instead of the bag hood as it allows freer motion.Also bring a warm hat.
A quick message from the Camino: I am walking now and am carrying a -20 c sleeping bag. I am very often way too hot at night, even when sleeping in just underwear. Bring a -5 one or something. Also mine weighs 2 kilos (borrowed it), just: no! (Have experienced snow and also 13C like today)Hi all,
Just wondering if I can get some input on a few questions:
1. What temp sleeping bag would you recommend for a feb start on the Camino?? Being Canadian I have a few different winter sleeping bags - my -25 C goes with me hiking in Nepal in winter (and camping here in winter) as there is no heat in the basic Nepali lodges either for sleeping. I’m wondering if that is overkill and a -10 C would suffice however.
2. Do people usually bring sleeping pads on or do almost all albuerges include a mat to sleep on? I tended to bring a thermal mat with me in winter just because I Sleep cold even with a thin mattress provided but I’m also certain Nepal is much more rustic than the Camino.
3. Towards the end of the Camino do I need to bring clothes for warmer weather? I’m inclined not to carry any short sleeved tops or shorts because I am usually cold anyway and long sleeve just seems more versatile.
4. Due to an unfortunate frostbite incident I need to be quite careful with my feet in particular - how cold would you say the walking temps are usually? I’m looking at the waterproof socks and a fully Gore-Tex boot as my regular hikers aren’t really for cold wet weather and my winter boots wouldn’t be suitable for such a long distance. I never hike in shoes but I guess the challenge is the mud and the rain and trying to keep my feet as warm and dry a possible. I’m just not sure if a polar waterproof is overkill or if I can just get a Gore-Tex hiker with warm socks and gators.
5. What is the best app for waypoints etc to ensure that you’re on the right path (walking solo I think this is a necessary safety precaution). I downloaded a great one for the JMT in the sierras this summer. I can also read a map a and compass and will bus or detour if any paths are closed.
6. What do you think the likelihood of me being able to bike from Burgos to Leon is during feb? I see that some companies rent bikes for only this stretch, and I thought it could be a nice change of pace for this section weather permitting.
7. I will also have a SPOT GPS that I take with me on all trips (peace of mind for my family mostly) but I think I’d like to get a Spanish SIM card for my phone - I’m assuming these are readily
Available from the bigger towns ie Pamplona?
I’m sure there will be more questions but these are the specific ones that I have after doing quite a lot of research already.
Thanks all!
EDIT: don’t know why it says live and obviously made some sort of mistake in posting this ...
Thanks everyone for the answers so far. As for the sleeping pad, I meant whether it is useful or necessary in addition to the beds in the Albuerges. I guess I’m probably anticipating colder nights than what they will be.
Hmmm .... now do I take my 0 degree (“summer”) sleeping bag? I think I’d rather be too hot than too cold so no.
Sounds like the footwear may be the biggest issue so I will try a waterproof sock and Gore-Tex boot combo.
Had not considered biking on icy roads - that truthfully doesn’t sound too great! I will prob have to wait and see how the weather is before I make that decision!
Appreciate everyone’s helpful input.
Hi all,
Just wondering if I can get some input on a few questions:
1. What temp sleeping bag would you recommend for a feb start on the Camino?? Being Canadian I have a few different winter sleeping bags - my -25 C goes with me hiking in Nepal in winter (and camping here in winter) as there is no heat in the basic Nepali lodges either for sleeping. I’m wondering if that is overkill and a -10 C would suffice however.
2. Do people usually bring sleeping pads on or do almost all albuerges include a mat to sleep on? I tended to bring a thermal mat with me in winter just because I Sleep cold even with a thin mattress provided but I’m also certain Nepal is much more rustic than the Camino.
3. Towards the end of the Camino do I need to bring clothes for warmer weather? I’m inclined not to carry any short sleeved tops or shorts because I am usually cold anyway and long sleeve just seems more versatile.
4. Due to an unfortunate frostbite incident I need to be quite careful with my feet in particular - how cold would you say the walking temps are usually? I’m looking at the waterproof socks and a fully Gore-Tex boot as my regular hikers aren’t really for cold wet weather and my winter boots wouldn’t be suitable for such a long distance. I never hike in shoes but I guess the challenge is the mud and the rain and trying to keep my feet as warm and dry a possible. I’m just not sure if a polar waterproof is overkill or if I can just get a Gore-Tex hiker with warm socks and gators.
5. What is the best app for waypoints etc to ensure that you’re on the right path (walking solo I think this is a necessary safety precaution). I downloaded a great one for the JMT in the sierras this summer. I can also read a map a and compass and will bus or detour if any paths are closed.
6. What do you think the likelihood of me being able to bike from Burgos to Leon is during feb? I see that some companies rent bikes for only this stretch, and I thought it could be a nice change of pace for this section weather permitting.
7. I will also have a SPOT GPS that I take with me on all trips (peace of mind for my family mostly) but I think I’d like to get a Spanish SIM card for my phone - I’m assuming these are readily
Available from the bigger towns ie Pamplona?
I’m sure there will be more questions but these are the specific ones that I have after doing quite a lot of research already.
Thanks all!
EDIT: don’t know why it says live and obviously made some sort of mistake in posting this ...
Hi,
I did the Northern route in Feb this year (2017) and took with me a -10 degree sleeping bag. I wish I didn't. I'm doing the Ingles route this coming Jan/Feb and I'm taking a jungle sleeping bag and liner. If I need to sleep outside I've got a emergency bivi bag which is the size of a coffee mug and reflects 80% body heat. I don't expect that to happen, but you never know. I planned for a winter trip as it would have been in the UK but I should have planed for a spring trip instead. Mine you I don't mind the cold!! I came across a few Albergues without heating and others in which I just cooked.
I got wet a lot and used over trousers and just a hiking coat. Although I did get soaked you're not left soaked all day and the kit dry's out in the Albergues by the following day. The one thing I wish I took was gators but you can do without them. I used Saloman mid GTX boots and found them excellent, so much so I'm using them again. With the boots I'm an advocate of double socks, I use merino wool and a liner sock, usually very thin silk ones, for me this is a great combination. I only got one blister in 1000kms and that was my fault for not drying out and changing my socks when everything got really wet.
The app I used and found it really useful was the Buen Camino one and it has off line maps. Although you pay for it I thought it was worth it. They do one for the French route as well.
That's my experiences and it sounds like you're not new to hiking so just trust you instincts. Have a great time and enjoy it. I thought I'd never do another one and here I'm am planning more. Buen Camino.
See post https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/serious-metatarsal-issues.52104/#post-574477 and the following one which were answering a similar question I had.Re footwear- I too wear salomon GTX shoe and hiking sandals but considering a more cushioned shoe as I’ve heard El Norte is 80% pavement - given walking condition do you think 1) a boot is better vs shoe? 2) is El Norte more asphalt vs CF (I took the CF green routes whenever possible)?
Hi all,
Just wondering if I can get some input on a few questions:
1. What temp sleeping bag would you recommend for a feb start on the Camino?? Being Canadian I have a few different winter sleeping bags - my -25 C goes with me hiking in Nepal in winter (and camping here in winter) as there is no heat in the basic Nepali lodges either for sleeping. I’m wondering if that is overkill and a -10 C would suffice however.
Hey fellow Canuck, looks like you got some great answers already so let me ask you to send me a direct/private message as I have Nepal questions. Am on verge of a sleeping bag purchase of my own . Sounds like you’d have some good insights! Thx in advance
A quick message from the Camino: I am walking now and am carrying a -20 c sleeping bag. I am very often way too hot at night, even when sleeping in just underwear. Bring a -5 one or something. Also mine weighs 2 kilos (borrowed it), just: no! (Have experienced snow and also 13C like today)
Also a vote for rain pants here: so happy I bought and brought them. Not used too often yet, but useful. Wet legs can get cold, some other peregrinos told me.
Enjoy enjoy!
Hi,
I did the Northern route in Feb this year (2017) and took with me a -10 degree sleeping bag. I wish I didn't. I'm doing the Ingles route this coming Jan/Feb and I'm taking a jungle sleeping bag and liner. If I need to sleep outside I've got a emergency bivi bag which is the size of a coffee mug and reflects 80% body heat. I don't expect that to happen, but you never know. I planned for a winter trip as it would have been in the UK but I should have planed for a spring trip instead. Mine you I don't mind the cold!! I came across a few Albergues without heating and others in which I just cooked.
I got wet a lot and used over trousers and just a hiking coat. Although I did get soaked you're not left soaked all day and the kit dry's out in the Albergues by the following day. The one thing I wish I took was gators but you can do without them. I used Saloman mid GTX boots and found them excellent, so much so I'm using them again. With the boots I'm an advocate of double socks, I use merino wool and a liner sock, usually very thin silk ones, for me this is a great combination. I only got one blister in 1000kms and that was my fault for not drying out and changing my socks when everything got really wet.
The app I used and found it really useful was the Buen Camino one and it has off line maps. Although you pay for it I thought it was worth it. They do one for the French route as well.
That's my experiences and it sounds like you're not new to hiking so just trust you instincts. Have a great time and enjoy it. I thought I'd never do another one and here I'm am planning more. Buen Camino.
Curled up newspaper works surprisingly well. Most albergues have newspapers. You need to take out the insoles and dry those separately. You should also take out the shoe laces. Avoid warm rooms, as cool rooms are better for the boots.
I know a few trekkers who carry extra insoles and change to dry insoles when they get to camp. That would translate just fine to a wet Camino. As with just about everything else, there's a slight weight penalty to be considered.
Ouch!Thanks! I have a packing list cobbled together from a few different lists I’ve seen. I always carry a compass no matter what. But central heating makes a big difference with the cold in Canada.
I actually stopped hiking in full leather boots after a hike walking through quite a bit of snow and wet nonstop. Ended up having to walk with plastic bags around my socks for a week. Fun fact - did you know that soaking wet leather shrinks when you try to warm it near the fire? I ended up with boots a size too small. Won’t be doing that again!
SoyGalego thank you for the informative post. I’ve been hoping to hear from a winter/early spring El Norte pilgrim. I’m planning a late Feb/early March start from Irun.
Re the sleeping bag, do you mean a less “warm” bag would do? Did most albergues have blankets (as on the C Frances)? I used a silk liner + sleeping bag rated -3 to +12C last March on the Frances and it was enough or even too warm (but it was a very warm spring in 2017). How was it to find open albergues - I have the newest Wise Pilgrim Guide / App and Gronze lists of what's open. I understand it’s necessary to look ahead 2-3 days to plan stops given albergues are not as common as on the C Frances.
Re rain gear - so an Altus or Ferrino Trekkers rain coat/poncho are unnecessary? I have light rain jacket 20,000 mm, light rain trousers and gaiters (I wear merino tops, ultralight down jacket and toque LOL I’m from Ottawa) but I’m debating about an Altus (450 gm so heavy).
Re footwear- I too wear salomon GTX shoe and hiking sandals but considering a more cushioned shoe as I’ve heard El Norte is 80% pavement - given walking condition do you think 1) a boot is better vs shoe? 2) is El Norte more asphalt vs CF (I took the CF green routes whenever possible)?
Lastly, how ALONE were you? I met a young German girl on my way to Finisterre and she’d just finished El Norte in March-April and said she was alone many nights.
THANK YOU in advance for sharing any advice/suggestions/recommendations re gear/routes/albergues/stage planning. Happy new year !
Hi again,
I started the Northern route from Irun in early Feb and it rained a lot and I was constantly wet for the first 5 days. Although it was wet it wasn't really cold and didn't drop below 3 degrees but remember while walking you're generating heat. This section of the Camino and on the Original Way is where I would have used a set of gaiters especially as there is a lot of mountains to climb. I used an ordinary hiking jacket without a liner and just wore a long sleeved shirt and a suitable wick away t-shirt. I was never cold. I had summer gloves, which I used twice and not all the time in the whole trip. Had a hood on my jacket which I used when it rain and nothing else. This time around I've discarded the hood, it's detachable and will use a hat instead. I had over trousers which I used over my hiking trousers when needed. So for my torso I mainly used Jack Wolfskin and for my bottom half Montane. I've no reason to changed that combination, it works for me! I did have the option of a lightweight puffer type jacket which I used in the evenings but could have zipped in the jacket if I needed too.
The sleeping bag I took was a 3 season one with a comfort rating of -10 degrees but without a liner. Most of the time it was too hot and instead I used a couple of blankets from the Albergues, which saved me unpacking and packing etc. I was always began my day by 06:30 to 06:40hrs. In the future, whatever the weather is doing, I'll only take a jungle sleeping bag and liner. That has a rating of +2 degree low and +7 degree comfort, with the liner it'll add a season to the heat level and if I'm really cold I've got an emergency bivi bag. However, I think that combination and heat rating is more than enough for me.
Everything you've read is correct there is a lot of concrete/asphalt walking on a lot of the stages but I found the GTX's a good compromise and were a good choice as a all round boot. I certainly wouldn't take a heavy boot and would walk in boots (mids) to support my ankles. There so light it's not restrictive or noticeable and I prefer to be safe than sorry. On occasion when it was quite warm during my Camino I wished I had a set of hiking shoes etc but not enough to change my mind if I was doing it again. I think someone mentioned hiking poles and I loved mine, but I do have 12 screws in my hip so they helped! Plus it gives a bit of exercise and a rhythm for your torso as well. That's my view. The only footwear I had was my boots and a set of crocs. Not changing that combo either!
I was alone all the time walking and nearly always alone in the Albergues as well. I used the Buen Camino app and a Northern Camino book to plan my stages and found that useful. I had to use Pensions and on occasions Hotels (usually 1 star) so it's more expense. Remember it's really out of season for a lot of the Albergues and some are closed or closed for refurbishments or using that time to get ready for the summer/peak month. The apps don't usually cover that detail! Wherever I stopped I made sure there was more than one option of accommodation, usually three. Only once did I ask in the town hall if an Albergue was open were I intended to stay. That was only because it was remote and the only accommodation there. I didn't book accommodation ahead, ever, you don't need to on this route.
When the three routes, French, Primitivo and Northern eventually meet up in Arzua it was a different experience for me as there were about 20 to 30 people in the Albergue that night!!
Sorry for the lengthy reply but I wanted to cover everything.
Buen Camino Peregrino
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