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It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.Use the restroom, have that drink and everybody is happy. Just because you call yourself pilgrim does not mean that you are entitled to anything.
Hospitality goes both ways and no bar, restaurant or albergue etc. can survive on handing out freebies.
It is no rocket sience though.It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.
That's an interesting comment. It varies a bit from one European country to the next. But there might actually be cultural bias or cultural conditioning involved. In my nearest shopping center, you even pay the lady in the restroom of a fast food restaurant; the going rate is 30 or 50 eurocents and nobody bats an eyelid, whether customer or not a customer. And I remember family members from a European country that shall remain unnamed who, when visiting abroad, regularly railed against having to pay for using a restroom or for consuming water at a restaurant table, and against having to pay an entry fee for cathedrals while those of us who lived abroad considered it as normal.Reserving bathroom access for customers only is a very common practice throughout Europe - and one that I (from Oz) also find a bit harsh.
I think the term refers to the concept of donativo hospitality, ie getting food and accommodation and care when ill for free or against a totally voluntary contribution
It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.
against having to pay an entry fee for cathedrals
You are not a customer so it's normal custom that you pay for using the restroom.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
And what I think about your remark "lack of hospitality" it's better that I don't answer that .
It is fair enough, to buy something in return for using the facilities. My guess is that day, that bartender was not inclined to let one more pilgrim use the facilities for free...There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
I live in Washington state in the USA and I see signs like that here so it's not European only. And to be Devil's Advocate, I appreciate going into a bar and not having to wait in line for the bathroom because I am a customer. That's called customer service. I always buy something when I go into a bar but sometimes that's such a long line at the bar I leave.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
They are free, but the vast majority are labeled for customer use only. It took a major "scandal" at Starbucks, land of the loiterer, for them to admit that restrooms had been for customers only, and that they were changing their policy. They now are for anybody.Here in the US most public restrooms are free altho a few require a small coin or token obtained from the cashier.
My remark is for the first post the OP made . The OP made a second remark and he still didn't got the point .Easy everyone, please... I would think VRS has got the point, not?
Sadly, on one of the Camino FB groups that I belong to someone suggested that there is no need to bring TP from home, as you can take as much as you want from albergues and bars.I was wondering if a previous pilgrim had helped herself to the supply, as I had seen a remark about pilgrims who empty the albergue washrooms of toilet paper for personal use.
Sadly, on one of the Camino FB groups that I belong to someone suggested that there is no need to bring TP from home, as you can take as much as you want from albergues and bars.
I have never had to pay an entry fee when I have asked if I may come in and pray then walk around. This goes for churches in Spain, France, California missions and even Westminster Abbey.This actually is a bit of a scandal. Religious grounds can certainly justify reserving the "church proper" (altar area, choir, congregation area, some major chapels possibly, the chapel of the Tabernacle if there is one) to worshippers, thereby confining other visitors to its inside edges, but to restrict entry into a church for financial reasons can only drive people away from the Church.
My understanding of pilgrim protocol is that in private establishment it is polite to purchase something if you wish to use the restroom. We stopped at this cafe for our morning second breakfast and really enjoyed watching pilgrims walking into town over the bridge. Liked it there so much we went back later in the day for a beer.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
As an older male Pilgrim I can appreciate your sense of urgency but as others have said the access to use of toilets in different countries varies. Here in the US most public restrooms are free altho a few require a small coin or token obtained from the cashier. I just got back from a driving tour with my son through Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria & Liechtenstein and almost without exception, be it restaurant, store, gas station there was a requirement for payment from customers and non-customers alike of from 50 cents to 1 euro (altho the latter did issue a coupon valid for 1 euro discount to be used in the restaurant). In France my son paid 1 euro for the two of use but the old lady manning the toilet literally pursued me into it to collect.So, do as others suggest, purchase a beverage (you probably need it anyway), invest a smile and a please and a thank you and help create the reciprocal hospitality you wish for. Buen camino!
These business deserve to recover their cost and stay in business. When you visit different countries that may have different social or cultural values than you may be familiar with, it's alway fair and courteous to be respectful and accepting.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
So.... I do wonder "what's up with all the loos that have no seats?"... Really. What's up with that?
Well, that's both brave and nasty.Rumor has it that they get stolen.
Welcome to the Forum, @VRS ! Sounds like you're on the Camino at this very moment and that your experience being refused at this bar was not a fun one. I agree with others that it's part of the Camino culture (and wider European culture) to become a customer in order to use the bathroom at a bar or cafe, but hopefully the rest of your pilgrimage will be restful and wonderful and you can put this bad moment behind you. Wishing you a Buen Camino.
Faith
I did the CF 3 years ago. It distressed me to see “pilgrims” walking in by the dozen, using the toilets and not paying or even acknowledging that they were in someone elses property. There was a saying: if you walk in and ask for a coffee, thry point to the toilet; if you walk in and ask for the toilet, they pour you a coffee.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
It is no rocket sience though.
Imagine 50 pilgrims walking in and use the toilet without consuming something?
Again margin profits for bars and cafeterias are small enough as it is.
So no you are not entitled to charity .
Such is life!
It seems it is just you, as many replies have offered up some valuable perspective.It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.
And a bag to collect your tissues in (please don't leave them on the trail! - this goes mostly for women). And for bigger business - a little spade!Sabine I could not agree more! My advice to pilgrims is to budget your money for bathroom stops. Most pilgrims drink coffee or beer or purchase water along the way. If you are on such a tight budget-time your purchases to coincide with bathroom visits. When not possible and really on such a tight budget use nature but do clean up after yourself! Then you will have to purchase and carry your own toilet paper!
I
My guess is that it's one fewer thing to have to keep in good working order - that is, the hinges - and one fewer thing to have to clean.So.... I do wonder "what's up with all the loos that have no seats?"... Really. What's up with that?
Same as with bedbugs. Most possibly we carry them from one place to another. And if there are like 300.000 recorded (!!!) pilgrims in SdC each year I would say WE breake the toilet seats.So.... I do wonder "what's up with all the loos that have no seats?"... Really. What's up with that?
Precisely....the initial post smacks of public shaming.Common sense to pay for the toilet.
Water and toiletpaper do not come free.
Half a euro won't break the bank.
I always buy something when using the toilet in a bar. Common courtesy.
And the people of that place are extremely friendly so they do not deserve this public shaming.
It is the same in France, but it is not something that is common in Spain except in some large cities (Pamplona and Leon come to mind).public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet.
I have experienced it in several places where they charged entry. Pamplona Cathedral had some exhibition and we were told to come back in the evening if we wanted to pray. Astorga Cathedral told us if we wanted to pray we could come back for 10am Mass the next morning. Burgos Cathedral did it reasonabley well; they charge entry to the more arty elements of the Cathedral, but there is a prayer chapel that you can always go into and pray.I have never had to pay an entry fee when I have asked if I may come in and pray then walk around. This goes for churches in Spain, France, California missions and even Westminster Abbey.
There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
@SabineP, I think you meant 30 or 50 eurocents@Albertagirl ...here in Belgium 0.30 or 0.50 eurocents
@SabineP, I think you meant 30 or 50 eurocents. Paris is 70-80 eurocents, service stations on German motorways charge 50 eurocents (you get a voucher to be used in their shops/cafeterias). In a Spanish bar, I always buy something and I usually stay for a drink. If not, I personally would probably leave 50 cents or even 1 € at the bar.
There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
Welcome to the Forum, @VRS ! Sounds like you're on the Camino at this very moment and that your experience being refused at this bar was not a fun one. I agree with others that it's part of the Camino culture (and wider European culture) to become a customer in order to use the bathroom at a bar or cafe, but hopefully the rest of your pilgrimage will be restful and wonderful and you can put this bad moment behind you. Wishing you a Buen Camino.
Faith
Totally agree! "Thumbs up" to Faith!Faith..you are a peachYour responses are always measured, appropriate and designed to have people feel better after reading them. I for one appreciate them.
Here in the US most public restrooms are free
As an older male Pilgrim I can appreciate your sense of urgency but as others have said the access to use of toilets in different countries varies. Here in the US most public restrooms are free altho a few require a small coin or token obtained from the cashier. I just got back from a driving tour with my son through Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria & Liechtenstein and almost without exception, be it restaurant, store, gas station there was a requirement for payment from customers and non-customers alike of from 50 cents to 1 euro (altho the latter did issue a coupon valid for 1 euro discount to be used in the restaurant). In France my son paid 1 euro for the two of use but the old lady manning the toilet literally pursued me into it to collect.So, do as others suggest, purchase a beverage (you probably need it anyway), invest a smile and a please and a thank you and help create the reciprocal hospitality you wish for. Buen camino!
And for those who think buying a coffee 'cos you need a wee is a self-defeating prospect. You're right! Drink beer and top-up your electrolytes
Aseos comes to mind....Watch out for Banos, Servicios, lavabos, senors, senoras, cabelloros, damas, hombres, mujeres & WC. And I've no doubt the fluent, or perhaps the incontinent, among members will be able to add a few more. ...
You are not a customer so it's normal custom that you pay for using the restroom.
And what I think about your remark "lack of hospitality" it's better that I don't answer that .
"It is much easier in NZ because public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet ." When will the Spanish authorities acknowledge that the current situation is completely untenable and do something significant about providing public toilets along the Camino? Maybe the new Government can be persuaded to act.
Of course many pilgrims do stop at cafes and buy a drink or a snack, but many more do not. There are now far too many people along the Camino that the old system is not working. For public health reasons there will have to be a change!
Thats okay. Toilets is spelt loads of different ways in Spanish. But if you're jiggling about a bit and looking slightly desparate everyone will know where you want. Watch out for Banos, Servicios, lavabos, senors, senoras, cabelloros, damas, hombres, mujeres & WC. And I've no doubt the fluent, or perhaps the incontinent, among members will be able to add a few more. Where I grew up the polite words were 'ditch' or 'bush' but there are far too many pilgs to make that a viable option on the Frances.
And for those who think buying a coffee 'cos you need a wee is a self-defeating prospect. You're right! Drink beer and top-up your electrolytes
There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
"It is much easier in NZ because public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet ." When will the Spanish authorities acknowledge that the current situation is completely untenable and do something significant about providing public toilets along the Camino? Maybe the new Government can be persuaded to act.
I have this wild idea that the new government has other issues to tackle than providing public toilets.
Again I am sure that they like to see more revenue for the local cafes.
And yes comparing New Zealand with Spain is like comparing apples with oranges.
There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
I for one would be happy to pay 20 centsIt is the same in France, but it is not something that is common in Spain except in some large cities (Pamplona and Leon come to mind).
I have opined before in the Forum that Juntas could subsidize portable toilets at strategic places that also would be catering trucks. Each morning in the high season, the vendors and toilets could position in the sections without bars or restaurants, and then return in the afternoon to a central point in the city for the toilets to be serviced. With a nominal charge for the toilet, twenty cents perhaps, vendors would be able to make a profit, Spain would add a few hundred seasonal jobs to reduce its high unemployment, the subsidy from the Junta would be nominal, and the countryside would be cleaned up a bit.
Imagine vendor trucks with a portable toilet in tow that would be a bit like the donativo squatter before the cross before Astorga (but with the electricity, hot water, and sanitary facilities that he lacks).
It is my suspicion that bars actually want to draw in pilgrims with their restrooms, but only if they sell something. There is not a big markup on an 80 cent cafe or 1.20E soda, so buying something in a bar is not a huge benefit to the owner in maintaining the toilets. It is closer to a courtesy than it is to a capitalist windfall.
The vending trucks would be the same, but not in the villages and cities with commercial establishments. As long as the bars did not see the toilets as commercial competition, I think they would support the juntas' program. It is pretty obvious to anyone who walks the Camino that the need for a toilet is not limited to the villages and cities!!
I fully expect my idea to never be implemented...
Respect the business and buy a drink.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
This policy of washrooms for customers only on the camino can be uncomfortable for those of us, for example, pilgrims from North America, who are not accustomed to it. I recall one occasion, my first camino, when I had an urgent need for a washroom, feeling guilty as I crept quietly to the washroom at the back of the restaurant. I just didn't feel able to wait until after I had ordered (which I did). On a later occasion, when I found that a washroom was out of toilet paper, I told the server at the bar, who immediately and apologetically took paper to the washroom. I was wondering if a previous pilgrim had helped herself to the supply, as I had seen a remark about pilgrims who empty the albergue washrooms of toilet paper for personal use.
I feel vulnerable when bodily needs present themselves in a public and foreign context. And I imagine that financial stringency would make some feel more so. Could someone suggest how much would be a reasonable coin to leave on a bar if one did not want, and could not afford, to buy a beverage? If I budgeted for so many bathroom needs a day and carried suitable coins, I might be more comfortable to use washrooms in bars on the camino. Please be a little sympathetic to the OP's experience.[/QUOT
Try to find a complimentary toilet in Manhattan! lol I head straight for a department store. This is not unheard of. Has little to do with hospitality. That's why god invented bushes ( but please take your used toilet paper
There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
The number of times my wife would tell me to get a coffee/wine etc... because she had to pee! I would walk up to the bar and she would run to the bathroom. These people are running a business to cater to our needs. At the end of the day they needs profits. Simple as that.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
Hugs From Hospital de Orbigo.There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
If I am tired enough, hungry enough or thirsty enough, I will stop anywhere. That bar is not the only one with that policy. The famous German bar at Boente has a sign up to that effect. If you want to use his facilities and have not bought anything, you pay for the toilet. Many dont as it is not policed during busy periods but it is the policy. It puts no-one off stopping there. Most bars do not ask us to pay for our food until we are leaving, the bar at Gonzar asks for payment at time of order. Do you think maybe, bars have different policies because their hospitality may have been abused by pilgrims. Like donativos where some think the word means the same as free. Live and let live and dont look for problems is my policyThere's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?
With the crowds there, they never could keep track of open tabs. The pay-when-you-leave is more for "normal" bars!Gonzar asks for payment at time of order.
I happily paid for the use of any bathroom I needed. There were times when I would have paid my whole days food money just to find a bathroom!!
Unlike most men I encountered, who didn’t even bother to move off the path before relieving themselves.
As Canuck60 said, he would order the drink while his wife rushed off to the bathroom.
I realise there are cultural differences, but I still found it quite offensive stepping over some guys puddle!! And so did all the other women I met along the way.
In fairness I should point out that it is not always men that are the problem. I came around a bend in the track in one of the woodland sections of the CF and almost fell over a woman who was just standing up in the middle of the track - her trousers and underwear still around her ankles and a damp patch steaming on the path. I passed by with as polite a "Buen Camino" as I could manage and was rewarded with a particularly venomous scowl in returnPuddles are not nearly so bad as coming across a pilgrim squatting just to the edge of the path on the CP, trousers round his ankles, carefully folding toilet paper while he relieved himself. he even gave my female pilgrim friend a smile as she passed him.
I happily paid for the use of any bathroom I needed. There were times when I would have paid my whole days food money just to find a bathroom!!
Unlike most men I encountered, who didn’t even bother to move off the path before relieving themselves.
As Canuck60 said, he would order the drink while his wife rushed off to the bathroom.
I realise there are cultural differences, but I still found it quite offensive stepping over some guys puddle!! And so did all the other women I met along the way.
It happened to me to use a Bathroom in a Bar, it was an emergency and in this case i would have paid 20 Euros. When you have to go !
You should have practised ‘custody of the eyes.’ Not looked, not seen!!...and almost fell over a woman who was just standing up in the middle of the track - her trousers and underwear still around her ankles and a damp patch steaming on the path. I passed by with as polite a "Buen Camino" as I could manage and was rewarded with a particularly venomous scowl in return
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