Mikel Olivares
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Camino Francés.
2016, Camino Portugués from Oporto
2017, San Salvador.
From today the Napoleón route is officially closed until March 31.
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Is it also closed to local walkers etc?
Yes. Closed means closed . There are plenty of other hiking trails in the area, I don't think that local walkers will miss this stretch one bit.Is it also closed to local walkers etc?
Tell me about the pilgrims! (??? - My wife, who's Dutch, says it sounds like a bit of sarcasm)I have no idea what this says.
I'm all for safety etc but having riden this route only a few weeks back I'm struggling to understand how it becomes presumably too dangerous so quickly and where?
Closed to absolute beginners but to someone with a little experience I just don't get?
(I'm not saying it's wrong - I just don't get it that's all) ?
This is a pointless discussion. When there is a speed limit, it is for everyone, even when you think it is ok for you to drive faster. When there is a no entry sign on a road, it is for everyone, even when you think there's no one around and it is ok for you to drive through quickly. When the trail of the Camino Frances from the French-Spanish border onwards is off limits, it is off limits for everyone even when you think it is ok for you to walk.I'm all for safety etc but having riden this route only a few weeks back I'm struggling to understand how it becomes presumably too dangerous so quickly and where?
Closed to absolute beginners but to someone with a little experience I just don't get?
(I'm not saying it's wrong - I just don't get it that's all) ?
I'm all for safety etc but having riden this route only a few weeks back I'm struggling to understand how it becomes presumably too dangerous so quickly and where?
Closed to absolute beginners but to someone with a little experience I just don't get?
(I'm not saying it's wrong - I just don't get it that's all) ?
Thanks, I must admit that I still don't really get it ... btw, I see this occasionally on FB groups that I follow: someone suddenly bursts into a foreign language without any obvious reason. My guess is that it has to do with automatic translation features that are now incorporated into online tools, and some posters don't even realise this. I have automatic translation turned off everywhere.Tell me about the pilgrims! (??? - My wife, who's Dutch, says it sounds like a bit of sarcasm)
The weather can change in a second.I'm all for safety etc but having riden this route only a few weeks back I'm struggling to understand how it becomes presumably too dangerous so quickly and where?
Closed to absolute beginners but to someone with a little experience I just don't get?
(I'm not saying it's wrong - I just don't get it that's all) ?
It's France , they use the French language . It's the same in every country , they use the Country's language.So they adapted their sign again in Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Whether this is the most eye-catching informative signage for an increasingly international clientele to get the message across to them that the Napoleon route is closed is another question altogether ...
View attachment 66484
No it doesn't. It just that the vast majority of the visitors of this forum are using a foreign language.Someone suddenly bursts into a foreign language without any obvious reason. My guess is that it has to do with automatic translation features that are now incorporated into online tools, and some posters don't even realise this. I have automatic translation turned off everywhere.
They also say it in English, Spanish and presumably Basque? What more could they do?It's France , they use the French language . It's the same in every country , they use the Country's language.
In my honest opinion it's not wrong ,
If you want to get your message across you need to ”speak” the language of your target audience. This doesn’t necessarily mean French or English or Dutch or whatever. It can just mean the specific words you use, the way you express your message. How many non-locals who start in SJPP, even when they have some French, know where the Col de Bentarte is or the GR65 or even the voie du Puy? You need to see the world through the eyes of your target audience, not through your own eyes.It's France , they use the French language . It's the same in every country , they use the Country's language. In my honest opinion it's not wrong ,
@Kathar1na , it says FERMÉ in 4 languages....If you want to get your message across you need to ”speak” the language of your target audience. This doesn’t necessarily mean French or English or Dutch or whatever. It can just mean the specific words you use, the way you express your message. How many non-locals who start in SJPP, even when they have some French, know where the Col de Bentarte is or the GR65 or even the voie du Puy?
I am obviously not getting my message across to my target audience .@Kathar1na , it says FERMÉ in 4 languages....
They could put a no left turn sign and a blue mandatory right turn signThey also say it in English, Spanish and presumably Basque? What more could they do?
Adding Korean, for starters...They also say it in English, Spanish and presumably Basque? What more could they do?
I'm all for safety etc but having riden this route only a few weeks back I'm struggling to understand how it becomes presumably too dangerous so quickly and where?
It is covered by general laws, such as Ley Foral de Tasas y Precios Públicos de la Administración de la Comunidad Foral de Navarra and similar. Good luck with researching and searching through these legal dispositions in Spanish if you have doubts and need precise verification! I doubt that anyone here is going to bother to do so. The 2019 Resolution that has been posted or linked makes it administratively easier to apply these other laws because it is easier to show that you (generic you) caused an emergency rescue operation through your own negligence. If you walk into an area where access is officially prohibited by law for example and you need to be rescued it is negligence on your part, and that is the legal basis for charging you for the cost of the rescue operation. Similar for fines that may apply.Where is the official statement that documents the 12,000 Euro fine? I could not find that in the documents that have been posted here.
You also risk deportation.Don’t be stupid. Either walk via Valcarlos, or take a taxi and start at Roncesvalles.
You WILL be billed for your rescue from the Napoleon pass Route... if you survive.
I'm all for safety etc but having riden this route only a few weeks back I'm struggling to understand how it becomes presumably too dangerous so quickly and where?
Closed to absolute beginners but to someone with a little experience I just don't get?
(I'm not saying it's wrong - I just don't get it that's all) ?
...
Is there a similar ban on the French side. I would have thought not as it is mainly road?
On the French side, the road (D428) is closed to traffic during winter (see http://inforoute.le64.fr/# - Route D428 fermée l'hiver). I don't know what this entails but I guess it is closed for general vehicle traffic and may not be served by snow ploughs.Is there a similar ban on the French side. I would have thought not as it is mainly road?
So they adapted their sign again in Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Whether this is the most eye-catching informative signage for an increasingly international clientele to get the message across to them that the Napoleon route is closed is another question altogether ...
View attachment 66484
No, that's not what I want. And I must admit if I had known that my remark would lead to such a long discussion about language choices I would not have made it in the first place. My comment wasn't about words. It was about visual impact; for example but that's just an example, nowadays, it's easy to make signs that use photographic information and other non-verbal information.Hola @Kathar1na, I think I can understand you point, you would like this sign to also be in English!! (please forgive this assumption.). But given that the area around St Jean has three or four local languages - French; Spanish (Castilian); Basque; and I think Catalan (Barcelona) so asking for a 5th (English) or even a 6th Italian or German is imho a bit too much to ask. Your smart phone would help translate the sign.
It says 'closed' ... in English.Hola @Kathar1na, I think I can understand you point, you would like this sign to also be in English!! (please forgive this assumption.). But given that the area around St Jean has three or four local languages - French; Spanish (Castilian); Basque; and I think Catalan (Barcelona) so asking for a 5th (English) or even a 6th Italian or German is imho a bit too much to ask. Your smart phone would help translate the sign.
I stand corrected. I recall being in China and a Korean man and a Chinese man communicated with written script. Perhaps there was a lot more going on.Written Korean uses a vastly different written symbol language then the Chinese and Japanese (which also differ from each other, though share some of the same characters).
On the French side, the road (D428) is closed to traffic during winter (see http://inforoute.le64.fr/# - Route D428 fermée l'hiver).
Which is why Orrison closes towards the end of October. Last year they even closed early so as to get work done on the albergue before the road officially closed.On the French side, the road (D428) is closed to traffic during winter (see http://inforoute.le64.fr/# - Route D428 fermée l'hiver). I don't know what this entails but I guess it is closed for general vehicle traffic and may not be served by snow ploughs.
As has been spelled out many times and very clearly: experience has shown that the Spanish section that is prohibited for pilgrims is the danger zone in winter months. That's where exhaustion starts, hypothermia sets in, accidents happen, orientation becomes difficult, and fools don't know how or are no longer able to turn around and go all the way back to SJPP, past the signs that had told them earlier "You must not walk here" ...
The main reason why Orisson closes is actually the fact that they never had permission to stay open during the winter months. It was a condition imposed on them when they got their building permission 15 years ago: they are only allowed to operate from the 1st of March to the 30th of October. So they were always closed for four months (and now they close for a month longer). For some reason or other I have always assumed that this was a matter of environmental protection.Which is why Orrison closes towards the end of October. Last year they even closed early so as to get work done on the albergue before the road officially closed.
While I was looking for something totally different today, I happened to come across a website that has details on this. Someone had asked about a source earlier. So here is the reference to the laws on which fines and recovery of the costs for rescue are based:My understanding is that from Nov 1 - Mar 31, you can be fined for trespassing up to 12,000 Euros if found on the Napoleon route. I haven't hear of anyone actually be fined, but sooner or later someone will be fully prosecuted.