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Ooooh, serious questionThis week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
So so true!The Camino shows you the best and worst of human nature ;-) Just take the best and ignore the rest.
BC SY
I am not sure why this would perturbe you. The Camino is open to all and, as a result, all kinds of individuals walk, ride, stroll, and hike all while being themselves.Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Does such a thing exist?
I have had the good fortune to meet pilgrims that have walked from Paris, then Rome and back, then Jerusalem and back, then down to Cadiz and back on the VDLP and didn't say word about what they had done. Others told me. Comparing ones life journey to another seems counter to really living gratefully.Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
My experience exactly!The Camino shows you the best and worst of human nature ;-) Just take the best and ignore the rest.
BC SY
I like the way Proverbs says it: “even a fool is thought to be wise when keeping his mouth shut”.Everyone of us has idiotic thoughts at some point in our life. Fortunate are they who when manage to keep their mouths shut when this happens.
The Camino shows you the best and worst of human nature ;-) Just take the best and ignore the rest.
BC SY
Yes, and not just about how to do a camino.
I usually wear the kilt when walking.
I have been asked (twice in three years) was I born in Scotland? (no) followed by the instruction that you can wear the kilt only if you were born in Scotland.
Despite the advice above I asked where that instruction came from. The response "It stands to reason". Once I just shrugged my shoulders and resumed walking. The other seemed more open to chat so I said my father, born in Scotland, had given me advice on what to wear. This one still seemed captured by their reason.
These make me want to read your book!Sure there are snobs that think the Camino should be done in a given fashion. Check out the bad reviews I got on my book - as if walking in solitude and mindfulness is not spiritual. Like Zen Buddhism isn't spiritual? Also got hammered for choosing to sleep in the better accommodations to insure a good night's sleep!
One of the distinctions learned while walking the Camino is "Are You a Pilgrim?" or "Are You a Tourist?". For Mr. Callery, he seems to be more in the tourist category. There is some nice historical background provided, but the journey and the flow of the trip seem disjointed. Mr. Callery seems to resist the idea of a spiritual journey. There's a lot of "I" and "Me", "Zen" and "Chi" - the simple Camino lesson of gratitude is less evident. Staying in private rooms, eating most meals alone and walking a faith-less journey is just one way to walk the Camino.
I found the author to be a bit arrogant and snobish regarding the typical shelters where pilgrims have been welcomed and cared for for hundreds if not thousand of years. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford five star hotels at every turn.
Although the author indicates this is not another Camino book, it really is another account of a person finding meaning and describing the journey on foot. Many private rooms, which is fine, but this makes it seem more a vacation and less a pilgrimage. One section which describes the author's struggle with alcoholism makes this book worth a read near the end of the journey.
Offer to remove the kilt immediately. If these folks know so much about kilts, they may have heard what's worn (or not) underneath.Yes, and not just about how to do a camino.
I usually wear the kilt when walking.
I have been asked (twice in three years) was I born in Scotland? (no) followed by the instruction that you can wear the kilt only if you were born in Scotland.
Despite the advice above I asked where that instruction came from. The response "It stands to reason". Once I just shrugged my shoulders and resumed walking. The other seemed more open to chat so I said my father, born in Scotland, had given me advice on what to wear. This one still seemed captured by their reason.
Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Just explain that after walking barefoot from home in sackcloth and ashes on your last camino, you are taking it easy time this time round
Oh yes! We had our share because we walked only Sarria-Santiago, only 10-18 km a day, and carried so small backbags people thought they were daybagsDoes such a thing exist?
I'm 100% with you on this idea.. it would make a nice change from the three rhubarb pies that I usually carry.Perhaps there should be a Camino rule that we all carry a bag with at least three custard pies in it??
Having read the thread, there are a lot of good points made and humorous comments. Two things that have not been mentioned. 1) The competitive nature of people in general. 2) The Chinese lady I saw downstairs in the waiting area of the Compostela queue. She had a pile of credentials (~50), that she was annotating with dates alongside the stamps? Watched her for 30mins thinking and thinking???? Kept mouth shutHi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Hello. This is my first post. I can see there might be “Camino snobbery” I looked down on myself! This year aged 72 I undertook my first Camino from Ponferrada to SDC (alone). I was unsure of my ability to take on a longer distance and also had my luggage sent ahead and pre- booked accommodation. I certainly looked up to the Peregrinos with huge backpacks clearly walking much further and staying in alburgues and could perfectly understand why some would consider themselves the ‘real deal’. Having said that I LOVED every second of my Camino (even the tough day from Villafranca to O Cebreiro higher route). With the benefit of hindsight I wish I had started further away and walked further but “Who knew?” Anyway I am hooked. Next year Portugues from Porto and more of the Frances.Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Haha. Love it. One would think that the physical evidence of a person not born in Scotland, wearing a kilt would cause them to question what they thought to be true but some people prefer to ignore facts than to question their preconceptions.I have been asked (twice in three years) was I born in Scotland? (no) followed by the instruction that you can wear the kilt only if you were born in Scotland.
Haha. Love it. One would think that the physical evidence of a person not born in Scotland, wearing a kilt would cause them to question what they thought to be true but some people prefer to ignore facts than to question their preconceptions.
I expect they’ve heard about restricted or copyrighted tartans that can only be used by one company or organisation and wrongly assumed that kilts themselves are somehow restricted. Or perhaps they think that wearing a kilt is cultural appropriation.
I can't 'like' this enough!There are no "rules" on the Camino, (except maybe "a pilgrim is entitled to NOTHING") so I take exception to people saying "It's MY camino and no one else's." The camino is a traveling family. You are not alone, not even if you feel alone, or you wanna be. It is not YOUR camino, ever. It is ALL of ours. Your joy, discomfort, snobbishness or humility rubs off on the people around you, just like your bedbugs or viruses do. The choices you make affect other people, just as theirs affect you. The whole point of the trip is to show you how strong you are, and that it's not all about you.
So treat other people, and the trail around you, with kindness and dignity.
And pie.
As I've posted elsewhere in reference to this:The Chinese lady I saw downstairs in the waiting area of the Compostela queue. She had a pile of credentials (~50), that she was annotating with dates alongside the stamps?
Why didn't you talk to her and either asked her straight away what she was doing or shared your obvious concerns? The thread is less about whether it's right or wrong on a universal absolute scale what people are doing. It is more about what people are thinking about what others are (supposedly) doing and whether we all have to regard it as right or wrong ☺.1) The competitive nature of people in general. 2) The Chinese lady I saw downstairs in the waiting area of the Compostela queue. She had a pile of credentials (~50), that she was annotating with dates alongside the stamps? Watched her for 30mins thinking and thinking???? Kept mouth shut
I was only ‘thinking’, how other pilgrims proceed, use the credential, have their Compostela granted is their concern, not mineWhy didn't you talk to her and either asked her straight away what she was doing or shared your obvious concerns? The thread is less about whether it's right or wrong on a universal absolute scale what people are doing. It is more about what people are thinking about what others are (supposedly) doing and whether we all have to regard it as right or wrong ☺.
I recently ended up walking for a while on the last 100 km in a loose group of two dozen or so South Koreans (I suppose that's what they were, I exchanged only smiles and Buen Caminos with them). I stopped paying attention to the waymarkers and just followed the direction they took. Then all of a sudden there were two huge buses parked on the road and they entered them. My thoughts? I thought "yikes, I hope I haven't followed them and I'm now off camino". Nothing more, nothing less. OK, I admit that I also had made the observation earlier that some didn't look as if they could walk long distances but so what.
Sometimes when I follow threads I think "woah, you (generic you) don't know much about pilgrimage, all you know is Camino walking as described, or even prescribed, in Camino guidebooks and Camino talks and Camino narratives". Nothing wrong with going on a foot pilgrimage in large groups, nothing wrong with logistics and organisation for large foot pilgrimage groups, nothing wrong with being picked up in a bus and transported to the group accommodation and brought back to the same location the next day, nothing wrong with the group leader having all the credencials stamped and dates added ...
"Luxury Pilgrim" here. While I do and have enjoyed the occasional alberque, especially for the opportunity to meet other pilgrims, I prefer private accommodations, good wine and great food. I dont take the pilgrims meal discounts because I appreciate the gesture of kindness and I can afford the regular price. I'd rather the discounts go to those who really need it.Ooooh, serious question. Of course, there are these labels floating around! People want to impose their ideas of the world on you and they want you to follow their ideas and conceptions; their way is the only way to salvation, or at least to finding your real inner self or keeping some spirit alive or something like that. Don't fall for it, you are a free person.
Even I had to free myself eventually from these preconceptions: since I am avoiding mass accommodation and bunkbeds everywhere where they are not an absolute necessity and share my dinero with the casas rurales, hoteles and private albergue owners if they offer me a private room, I have sometimes referred to us coyly as "luxury pilgrims" when chatting with the public albergue lot. These days are long gone.
Just smile politely when you hear someone giving you their talk and don't disagree. It makes them happier. Goes both ways, btw, for the ones who are the Camino snobs and for the ones who call them Camino snobs.
Having a different viewing point on the OP’s comment and those that follow I can only offer this...My first Camino included thoughts and conversations about what I thought to have been a proper pilgrimage to Santiago. Nine Camino’s later my views have been turned inside out. For me it was about learning what the Camino meant to me after experiencing it. Most walk the Camino once and their single experience informs their opinions. I think frequent and repetetive lessons have altered my initial view.Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Any accommodation or albergues that are exclusively for pilgrims and where foot pilgrims have priority? I think it would be useful for the discussion to make that distinction.The conflict arises more when a pilgrim traveling by foot and carrying a pack arrives to find accommodations full of pilgrims supported by transport.
They are like bedbugs... They turn up now and then but most people just try to avoid them
I have generally felt sympathy for pilgrims who don't carry their packs. Their choices of routes to walk are limited, and they have left the less busy routes to those of us with the health, or the imagination, to walk them with our packs (no available luggage service). Thanks very much.The conflict arises more when a pilgrim traveling by foot and carrying a pack arrives to find accommodations full of pilgrims supported by transport. It is easy to "let it go" until you are hot and tired and just want to lie down. I thought some pretty unkind things at times and later felt guilty.
As I've posted elsewhere in reference to this:
Nothing wrong with that. She was certainly a group leader, and the credentias had been handed to her by the group she'd led. The dates she was adding next to the stamps would be added to assist the office workers to assess the progress of the group. She'd then take the pile of credentias upstairs to the group office which is on the right after you enter the building, and leave then there to be processed. She'd be told to return the next day and pick up the compostelas for the members of her group. She was probably using that area downstairs because it's the only available place for her to do it. (If she was cheating she'd do it somewhere private.)
Processing groups in one go is done in the mornings by the pilgrim office staff, before the queues start to build. It's a way of dealing efficiently with large numbers of people who have all walked the same route at the same time. That's why there's an office especially for that purpose.
(I'd also add that she probably wasn't Chinese but probably from South Korea, which sends many pilgrims and is quite a religious country. Roman Catholics don't have an easy time in China.)
@t2andr sums it up perfectly. It's hard to describe but sometimes there is simply *something* about a credentia....When this this silliness is seen to occur, we usually identify these folks for "special handling." First security gives them the "stink eye"....
I'd be careful with this advice if I were you. You might find a whole lineup of us standing around - hoping - cheering - to see if you really would take it off. ROFLOLOffer to remove the kilt immediately. If these folks know so much about kilts, they may have heard what's worn (or not) underneath.
Come off it mate. Everyone knows for sure that under the kilt, nothing is worn. It's all in perfect working orderOffer to remove the kilt immediately. If these folks know so much about kilts, they may have heard what's worn (or not) underneath.
No matter how far we’ve walked, there’s usually someone nearby who walked further or through greater hardship. It helps keep me silent and humble.
Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Dear Michelle, sending some positive energy and thoughts your way to heal so that you may continue your journey. I commend you for your fortitude and serenity in accepting that even though you had a goal, goals can be reached in many different ways and in time frames we had not otherwise considered. Wishing you a speedy recovery. ❤After reading about your experience, perhaps the term, Camino Snob, applies to the person pointing out others due to their actions, compared to his own. It sounds like such a small mind, sadly. Personally, I have tried twice to walk the Camino but due to injuries, both times, I had to stop and go home. The second time, I fell in Paris, before making it to SJPP ending up with contusions and broken fingers, but refused to go home before I started.
Addressing the Peregrinos who do it in a week or so at a time, it is what it is. At least they are devoting vacation time to Pilgrimage. My hat is off to them for any effort, every step they make on the Path.
For me, I will return and start where I had to finish last, at Mañeru, Navarre, Spain, 16 km East of Estella. When this will happen as I have some medical issues to resolve before I go.
I'd be careful with this advice if I were you. You might find a whole lineup of us standing around - hoping - cheering - to see if you really would take it off. ROFLOL
In general the camino reflects normal society, you will see the same things as in regular life. There is a difference though. A camino seems to be more than just a walking trek in Spain, ending in Santiago. The existence of this forum is a proof of this. The "specialness" is further stressed by awarding compostellas. Perhaps people feel the need to define what makes the camino special. Is it the religious motivation, the being a pilgrim? In this case the only "real" camino would be to walk from your home to the catedral in Santiago. For others things like living simple, meeting and sharing other people in albergues are the main aspects. Some have more performance goals, taking a bus or taxi is cheating. Some cling to the following the yellow arrows as being the real camino, taking shortcuts or asphalt is a real deviation for them. Everyone walks on the caminos with his/her own goals, of course it is not right to judge others on the base of your own goals/standards. But like I said the need to do so can spring from the need to safeguard the specialness of the camino.( I consider myself a walker, I walk on the caminos for reasons like : the walking pleasure, the good and affordable infrastructure, the easy way to contact other people combined with the many possibilities of being on your own when walking, the culture, language and history of Spain, and the camino. I have no religious or spiritual motivation to walk a camino, reaching Santiago or getting a Compostella is not important for me. In short I am not a real pilgrim, but that had no impact on my meetings with "fello-travellers"
That is a sweet thought. However, and that goes not only for those who walk a segment at a time but also for many of those who have much of their stuff transported, who take taxis or buses, who stay in other accommodation than public albergues, who start in Sarria: there is no need to constantly come up with explanations or comments that express compassion for their lot or for their behaviour and appeals to others to show the same kind of understanding. Many on a Camino have made conscious choices about what matters to them and makes sense to them, and what doesn’t. This is how they want to do it, this is how they want to get to Santiago, from wherever they set out.Addressing the Peregrinos who do it in a week or so at a time, it is what it is. At least they are devoting vacation time to Pilgrimage. My hat is off to them for any effort, every step they make on the Path.
I could deal with the fact that this man carried a tiny water pack and about 120 lbs of MacDonald’s burgers and fries under his skin.
This isn't addressed to you personally, @Cynistra, but more a general comment. Sometimes I find that the Never JudgersThis sort of judgment is what for me would qualify as a perfect camino snob to be honest.
Absolutely. But the way this particular observation was expressed came across as judgemental to me, as well. The weight was mentioned is a list of things that the observer "could deal with" as if they were failings but ones that could be borne. In addition, the comment that the extra weight came from McDonalds (when the observer had no idea where the extra weight came from) just carries the judgement further. To say that the description in this case was impartial observation may not be an impartial observation. Or, given that this is an international forum, if English is not your first language, perhaps you are unaware of the negative connotations of some of the word choices.This isn't addressed to you personally, @Cynistra, but more a general comment. Sometimes I find that the Never Judgersare taking it quite far, at least in my opinion. Noticing that he is has long legs, that they walk very fast, that she carries an enormous backpack, that he is very overweight, that they look extremely fit, that she doesn't carry more than what fits into a handbag ... all this isn't judgment, it's just observing the world around you.
I am aware of them and I agree with your assessment, of course. However, I also see the wider context of these word choices: the poster shared his thoughts and feelings with us, he tries to make us understand how he felt; he kept most of his thoughts to himself and did not direct them at the man; he starts his post with a "confession" of his short-comings. The post would have been a probably much shorter but also considerably more boring post had it been written in the non-judgmental style with carefully selected impartial word choices. ☺Or, given that this is an international forum, if English is not your first language, perhaps you are unaware of the negative connotations of some of the word choices.
Practicing tolerance is my New Years resolution so I can face the rude and snob people. So sad some people just can’t leave others alone.Ooooh, serious question. Of course, there are these labels floating around! People want to impose their ideas of the world on you and they want you to follow their ideas and conceptions; their way is the only way to salvation, or at least to finding your real inner self or keeping some spirit alive or something like that. Don't fall for it, you are a free person.
Even I had to free myself eventually from these preconceptions: since I am avoiding mass accommodation and bunkbeds everywhere where they are not an absolute necessity and share my dinero with the casas rurales, hoteles and private albergue owners if they offer me a private room, I have sometimes referred to us coyly as "luxury pilgrims" when chatting with the public albergue lot. These days are long gone.
Just smile politely when you hear someone giving you their talk and don't disagree. It makes them happier. Goes both ways, btw, for the ones who are the Camino snobs and for the ones who call them Camino snobs.
I walk twice a year on caminos, more than 2000km every time, all walking and with a 5 kilos backpack. Yes there are camino snobs and I love this expression I never heard. But keep in mind that there are not only turigrinos and camino snobs. Sometimes you meet simple pilgrims, even simple walkers, of any kind !Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
Characterizing people as turigrinos is snobbish. As far as I'm concerned, everyone who chooses to walk or cycle the Camino can consider themselves to be pilgrims if they wish, regardless of whether they walk a day, a week, a month or a year, carry their own pack or have it transported via sherpa or Jacotrans, sleep on church steps, in tents, albergues, pensions or 5 star hotels.But keep in mind that there are not only turigrinos and camino snobs.
It sure does, and is best ignored. The "Camino Experience" brigade, particularly young North Americans, seemed to me to be very intolerant of older walkers, or those pushed for time, and the fitter walkers can be very competitive in distance covered/days taken. To some, it's almost a race. "What's your hurry?" I would ask!!Hi everyone,
This week I was introduced to the term "Camino Snob" by a friend's colleague who has done the Camino three times. He warned me about people who may judge someone because they are not doing the whole 800km of the Camino Frances or who might be sending their bags ahead or who might take a few days along the route to rest a while and stay in a hotel etc etc. I was very surprised and a little perturbed when he mentioned this to me. Does such a thing exist?
I have no doubt we meet more of the latter.I walk twice a year on caminos, more than 2000km every time, all walking and with a 5 kilos backpack. Yes there are camino snobs and I love this expression I never heard. But keep in mind that there are not only turigrinos and camino snobs. Sometimes you meet simple pilgrims, even simple walkers, of any kind !
???????Does anyone that is blogging along here know (at least in a simple matter of speaking) the language of the country in which they are making the 'kilometers"? In other words: is the Camino a fantasy. temporal out of context hippies and yups?
I can totally relate to this and it made me smile! Those that haven't walked mostly have zero interest in hearing about my Camino walks. Or they really don't see a Camino much different from a regular holiday. Or they think I am totally mad for having done such a thing more than once.Thank God I'm not a Camino Snob. I'm so much better... (God, I thank Thee that I am not as other men are... Lk 18:11).
What I am is a Camino Bore. Friends and relatives head for the hills whenever I say "You know, on my last trip to Spain...."
I had to co-found a chapter of American Pilgrims on the Camino in order to have a fresh group of people tell my Camino stories to.What I am is a Camino Bore. Friends and relatives head for the hills whenever I say "You know, on my last trip to Spain...."
excellent. Most of foreign pilgrims don't speak spanish. they don't even say buenos dias or gracias. so when a spanish starts talking to you he uses english. pathetic.Does anyone that is blogging along here know (at least in a simple matter of speaking) the language of the country in which they are making the 'kilometers"? In other words: is the Camino a fantasy. temporal out of context hippies and yups?
Does anyone that is blogging along here know (at least in a simple matter of speaking) the language of the country in which they are making the 'kilometers"?
Not sure what the knowledge of foreign languages, or lack thereof, has to do with the thread topic?excellent. Most of foreign pilgrims don't speak spanish.
I don't understand what you are askingDoes anyone that is blogging along here know (at least in a simple matter of speaking) the language of the country in which they are making the 'kilometers"? In other words: is the Camino a fantasy. temporal out of context hippies and yups?
Does anyone that is blogging along here know (at least in a simple matter of speaking) the language of the country in which they are making the 'kilometers"?
Does anyone that is blogging along here know (at least in a simple matter of speaking) the language of the country in which they are making the 'kilometers"? In other words: is the Camino a fantasy. temporal out of context hippies and yups?
It isn't necessary (or necessarily true) to speak for your compatriots at all!for many pilgrims from Canada (I will let others comment on their own compatriots)
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