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The EES is not just for British nationals but for all TCNs (what the EU calls third country nationals, i.e. British, Americans, Canadians, Australians and about 55+ other nationalities). The EES will be introduced at all external EU borders - sea, air, land. Your passports will no longer get stamped. It is not a Brexit thing.Just the British? Are they a dodgy lot, coming over to France and taking all their cheese?
The report was carried in the English Guardian news journal so its from a point of view of English citizens.The EES is not just for British nationals but for all TCNs (what the EU calls third country nationals, i.e. British, Americans, Canadians, Australians and about 55+ other nationalities). The EES will be introduced at all external EU borders - sea, air, land. Your passports will no longer get stamped. It is not a Brexit thing.
Nobody knows much about the delays that the introduction of the EES system will actually cause for TCN travellers who travel to an EU Schengen country for the first time under the EES system. Whether all countries and all their airports, seaports, and terrestrial crossings that mark an external EU border will be ready by the autumn of 2024 or not. They will have to communicate yes or no by August 2024.
That the Dover port authorities have been concerned about EES related delays in view of channel crossings and that the French government has been concerned about EES related delays in view of foreign visitors arriving by air or sea for the Olympic Games in the summer of 2024 has been in the news for a long time, at least for 12 months and longer.
Currently, the "big" news is the fact that there is, for the first time, mention of a date: 6 October 2024. Whether this is an official EU wide start or merely the start of test runs in Dover is anyone's guess.
I'd suggest that we just sit back and let it develop. And that we wait until the first person has actually travelled through an EES point of entry and had their fingerprints taken. Doesn't the US immigration service do this with non-US travellers and has done so for umpteen years?
Dover is a massive port. If somebody would ask me for advice I would recommend to travel through Newhaven instead. It is a cozy little port. You'll get on the boat quickly and the EU checkpoint is in Dieppe. My only wish is that they will then finally separate the lines for cars with EU drivers from the cars with non-EU drivers and we can zoom through without delay. Roll-on roll-off as it should be.The report was carried in the English Guardian news journal so its from a point of view of English citizens.
The report was carried in the English Guardian news journal so its from a point of view of English citizens.
The report was carried in the English Guardian news journal so its from a point of view of English citizens.
Conscious of rule 3 so delete if need be. If you mean UK media then no. All news outlets, irrespective of political leaning, are largely focused on ‘bad news’, with no real fact, when travelling to EU countries. It actually works for both sides. There is no real objective reporting. The issue is ‘dying’ a little though resurfaces at peak travel times.Comparatively very few Camino pilgrims travel through Dover. The main entry points for TCN pilgrims appear to be Paris CDG airport and Madrid Barajas airport. Has there been anything in the news about how things are progressing there and whether there are great concerns about future delays at border control posts in these two airports towards the end of 2024 and in 2025?
Indeed! The processes for UK folk to enter USA, Australia et all have improved hugely and no doubt this will be a great step forward. Not bad for €7 for 3 years.What is the takeaway information for pilgrims here?
Don't forget to take your fingers and your valid passports with you when you travel across borders. Starting now, all through 2024 and 2025, and probably indefinitely!
Rule 3 enlighten me please.Indeed (though with rule 3 in mind) it is a highly political topic and the two newsapers running it as a ‘major’ today, are from opposite sides of the political divide and reporting it accordingly!
That's for US and Canada, big bang for other countries Nov 2024.Not happening until early 2025 now
Rules of talking about such things as politics on here. Not allowed, so in my case try to point that reporting around this subject is very politically driven without sharing viewpoint/criticism. Not sure where boundary is so for example today one media outlet play it one way, and one play it another way based on their political viewpoints, who funds them, what there readers want to read, etc!Rule 3 enlighten me please.
NopeThat's for US and Canada, big bang for other countries Nov 2024.
There is a tab in the menu at the top of your screen, called "Forum Rules." Or click here. I think the reference should have been to Rule 2 (not Rule 3), related to political discussions.Rule 3 enlighten me please.
Try Rule 2: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/forum-rules-revised-july-2023.20973/Rule 3 enlighten me please.
Possibly a two-off experience.And it will make no difference whatsoever to ... the Amsterdam stag party other than a one off experience of waiting to get fingerprinted ...
I don’t know but certainly a lot of UK folks love their passport stamped!!! Maybe a separate queue for a stamp on arrival for a small fee?! Many sporting events still let you buy a souvenir ticket for a small fee even though you can get it for free on your mobile!"Stamps will no longer be needed"
But will they be available? The stamps in my passport have some sentimental value. Knowing that my trip is enshrined in a couple of dozen bytes in a far away computer just won't have the same nostalgia value.
Maybe they could do like San Marino—put a colorful sticker in your passport for €5
Indeed but people are strange folks!!! Stamps for seem to be a ‘thing’ for many. Not for me though! Tracking down entry/ exit stamps in some parts of the world can be a time consuming job!British Camino pilgrims and other British tourists travelled to Spain in their millions during the past decades without getting a stamp in their passports and the same goes for the French, the Dutch, the Belgians, the Germans, the Austrians, the Swiss and many more from Europe. Did anybody ever dream of even asking for a stamp? Optional stamps will not be provided for and you will get over it, I am sure.
So many seem to be occupied with the EU’s EES and ETIAS. How come that hardly anyone is talking about the UK’s future ETA (Electronic Travel Authorisation) system which is currently in the process of being introduced? They have already developed the app and you could download it. “In the future, the scheme will apply worldwide to those who do not currently need a visa to visit or transit through the UK or who do not hold a UK immigration status, including nationals from Europe and America”, says the UK government on their website. The fee will be £10 with a validity of two years.
Not me. Once the pages get filled up with stamps I might have to replace the passport prematurely. Which is a pain in the posterior!I don’t know but certainly a lot of UK folks love their passport stamped!!!
This is yet to be introduced passport checking technology that will be used on all incoming travellers who are not citizens of a Schengen signatory country, so will apply to US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand to name but a few. The i, Times and Guardian all name as their source the owners and operators of the Eurotunnel. How they know about it is anybody´s guess because there has been no official announcement. It probably won´t make a lot of difference to most of us as we don´t even take the ferry from the UK, let alone drive a car.British travellers on first use is expected to launch next autumn, according to reports.
This is not ESTA, at least not directly. It is just new technology for passport checking although it is being put in place in readiness for ESTA.Indeed. I guess the only thing is that when it finally does launch, people can easily find the official site. The number of fake sites for ESTA is quite something!! Oh and dealing with people who forget to do it!!
I was referring to the USA Visa Waiver site (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) that has been in place for many years, and the huge number of fake sites charging fees for the service that is quick, cheap and easy across the official site. Similar story Australia and Canada too. There will loads of similar sites for the EU version.This is not ESTA, at least not directly. It is just new technology for passport checking although it is being put in place in readiness for ESTA.
Fortune smiling for once on our Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish compatriots then!The report was carried in the English Guardian news journal so its from a point of view of English citizens.
British Camino pilgrims and other British tourists travelled to Spain in their millions during the past decades without getting a stamp in their passports and the same goes for the French, the Dutch, the Belgians, the Germans, the Austrians, the Swiss and many more from Europe. Did anybody ever dream of even asking for a stamp? Optional stamps will not be provided for and you will get over it, I am sure.
So many seem to be occupied with the EU’s EES and ETIAS. How come that hardly anyone is talking about the UK’s future ETA (Electronic Travel Authorisation) system which is currently in the process of being introduced? They have already developed the app and you could download it. “In the future, the scheme will apply worldwide to those who do not currently need a visa to visit or transit through the UK or who do not hold a UK immigration status, including nationals from Europe and America”, says the UK government on their website. The fee will be £10 with a validity of two years.
??? That would kind of depend on so many yerbles it’s sort of fun. RoI isn’t in Schengen any more than the UK is so ESS and ETIAS apply when you hit Schengen. Whether ETA will apply on travel between the RoI and UK is made explicitly unclear in all the published information to date because the complete understanding of The Border is not yet complete.Am I correct in assuming that the UK future ETA will not apply to travel between RoI and the UK mainland?
Do the requirements for finger printing and facial recognition apply to travel between RoI and UK mainland?
Certainly 'smart gates' that read biometric data from the past couple of generation of passports have been in use in Australia for some years, and more recently in the UK for Australians. Fingerprint collection has also been a feature of the entry process for some countries, I think including the US, alongside entry photographs. Both photographs and fingerprints seem to be done at more traditional entry points, not those with smart gates. My observation is that where I have been through these processes, it adds very little time to the entry process. It has never been a major issue for me.I'd suggest that we just sit back and let it develop. And that we wait until the first person has actually travelled through an EES point of entry and had their fingerprints taken and their face scanned. Doesn't the US immigration service do this with non-US travellers and has done so for umpteen years?
at the moment, cheese can go from France to the UK, but not the other way around, how bizarre is that!Just the British? Are they a dodgy lot, coming over to France and taking all their cheese?
They did try that on one crossing that my OH was on during the year, but the last time I went it was back to a free for all.Dover is a massive port. If somebody would ask me for advice I would recommend to travel through Newhaven instead. It is a cozy little port. You'll get on the boat quickly and the EU checkpoint is in Dieppe. My only wish is that they will then finally separate the lines for cars with EU drivers from the cars with non-EU drivers and we can zoom through without delay. Roll-on roll-off as it should be.
That's fine; I usually have fingers and passport when travelling, so no change thereWhat is the takeaway information for pilgrims here?
Don't forget to take your fingers and your valid passports with you when you travel across borders. Starting now, all through 2024 and 2025, and probably indefinitely!
The UK only issue passport stamps on arrival, not leaving. This has been confirmed by the border police only last week.British Camino pilgrims and other British tourists travelled to Spain in their millions during the past decades without getting a stamp in their passports and the same goes for the French, the Dutch, the Belgians, the Germans, the Austrians, the Swiss and many more from Europe. Did anybody ever dream of even asking for a stamp? Optional stamps will not be provided for and you will get over it, I am sure.
So many seem to be occupied with the EU’s EES and ETIAS. How come that hardly anyone is talking about the UK’s future ETA (Electronic Travel Authorisation) system which is currently in the process of being introduced? They have already developed the app and you could download it. “In the future, the scheme will apply worldwide to those who do not currently need a visa to visit or transit through the UK or who do not hold a UK immigration status, including nationals from Europe and America”, says the UK government on their website. The fee will be £10 with a validity of two years.
There is a touch of the “bent cucumber” about that. I regularly ship a favoured cheese to an old friend trapped on the continent by the constraints of old-age and property ownership. The package arrives without impediment. No douanier has ever enquired the presence of cheese in my Bagages on any recent venture. Nor oysters for that matter, not that I’ve tried. The absence of “universal cheddar” from French and Spanish fromage/ queso retailers has more, I think, to do with local taste than cross-border import controlat the moment, cheese can go from France to the UK, but not the other way around, how bizarre is that!
Mature cheddar is available (at twice the asking price in the UK) and yes, after huge amounts of scaremongering, the customs are definitely more interested in stowaways, odd wires under car bonnets and child smuggling (I have to remember to have my letters of authorisation to collect grandchildren). Sorry, a bit off the OPThere is a touch of the “bent cucumber” about that. I regularly ship a favoured cheese to an old friend trapped on the continent by the constraints of old-age and property ownership. The package arrives without impediment. No douanier has ever enquired the presence of cheese in my Bagages on any recent venture. Nor oysters for that matter, not that I’ve tried. The absence of “universal cheddar” from French and Spanish fromage/ queso retailers has more, I think, to do with local taste than cross-border import control
You must be a relative of @Turga.Sorry, but I see more things to concern us than finger prints and a photo, like the price of vino tinto going up, come on folks.
??? That would kind of depend on so many yerbles it’s sort of fun. RoI isn’t in Schengen any more than the UK is so ESS and ETIAS apply when you hit Schengen. Whether ETA will apply on travel between the RoI and UK is made explicitly unclear in all the published information to date because the complete understanding of The Border is not yet complete.
That’s as far as I’m going. As a retired Mod I’m very aware of the sporting opportunities offered by Rule 2
That we know of...This could conceivably speed up entry for travellers to Spain/France or anywhere else in the Schengen area.
Earlier this year I travelled to Australia via Singapore. For each country I was required to fill in an online form, effectively a visa application/landing card. This took just a few minutes each time, and my Australian tourist visa was confirmed almost immediately. Singapore has no visa requirements for EU citizens, but Australia is a bit more fussy.
At both countries, as soon as I landed I was able to put my passport into an electronic reader which admitted me immediately, presumably having checked that I had obtained prior authorisation. The process couldn't have been shorter, and was considerably quicker than producing my passport to a human being to read and then insert into a machine reader.
Of course, I don't have any outstanding arrest warrants.
Common travel area...Am I correct in assuming that the UK future ETA will not apply to travel between RoI and the UK mainland?
Do the requirements for finger printing and facial recognition apply to travel between RoI and UK mainland?
I am curious because I don't quite understand.The UK only issue passport stamps on arrival, not leaving. This has been confirmed by the border police only last week.
I am curious because I don't quite understand.
I've travelled to the UK this year as well as last year (via London or Newhaven). Now that we can no longer use our national ID cards I use my EU passport. I've never received a stamp whether it was arrival or departure. The last time I left the UK via St Pancras (either in 2023 or 2022, I can't remember), I had to pass the two border control booths (I think) where my passport was checked each time and
I travelled with my friend who résides in France but has an Armenian passport. As such, she needs a visa to enter the Uk. Her passport is stamped on entry, but not on exit. When we queried it, before returning to France for a second time, the border police confirmed that there is no stamp when exiting the UK. I have no problem, having dual nationality and so, two passports.there was another channel (perhaps only for us foreigners) just before the large waiting hall where my photo was taken. That was new.
British and Irish nationals don't have to get an ETA, just as EU nationals don't have to get an ETIAS.Am I correct in assuming that the UK future ETA will not apply to travel between RoI and the UK mainland?
Do the requirements for finger printing and facial recognition apply to travel between RoI and UK mainland?
Travel between Ireland and Britain is part of an agreed common travel area, with no restrictions.??? That would kind of depend on so many yerbles it’s sort of fun. RoI isn’t in Schengen any more than the UK is so ESS and ETIAS apply when you hit Schengen. Whether ETA will apply on travel between the RoI and UK is made explicitly unclear in all the published information to date because the complete understanding of The Border is not yet complete.
That’s as far as I’m going. As a retired Mod I’m very aware of the sporting opportunities offered by Rule 2
One of those ocassions when I have to agree. Why on earth should a connecting passenger who remains airside and is merely in transit have any need to obtain a visa when they have no intention of entering the country.@Kathar1na
This is the sort of occasion for which I wish Ivar had a ‘raised eyes’ emoji among the responses.
I love emojis and use them often. I think I recall that someone on the forum recently mentioned they are a bit childish,This is the sort of occasion for which I wish Ivar had a ‘raised eyes’ emoji among the responses.
I think that the USA has the same system as the UK intends to implement. The son of a former colleague of mine got held in custody at the airport in the USA for several hours, maybe even overnight (I can't remember), because he had not applied and paid for an ESTA. He had not been aware of the requirement. If I remember correctly, it was a flight from Paris to Nicaragua with a transit in Miami. He had not planned to spend any time in the USA. It was very stressful for this young guy and his mother.@Kathar1na
This is the sort of occasion for which I wish Ivar had a ‘raised eyes’ emoji among the responses.
One of those ocassions when I have to agree. Why on earth should a connecting passenger who remains airside and is merely in transit have any need to obtain a visa when they have no intention of entering the country.
Raised eyes indeed.
Some things defy common sense.
Yes, that is how it is for passengers transiting the US. I'm surprised that the son was even able to board the flight to the use without an ESTA.I think that the USA has the same system as the UK intends to implement. The son of a former colleague of mine got held in custody at the airport for several hours, maybe even overnight, because he had not applied and paid for an ESTA. He had not been aware of the requirement. If I remember correctly, it was a flight from Paris to Nicaragua with a transit in Miami. It was very stressful for the guy and his mother
Thank you for that explanation. There is usually a reason not apparent at first glance.Yes, that is how it is for passengers transiting the US. I'm surprised that the son was even able to board the flight to the use without an ESTA.
But it's my understanding that the reason why passengers who are only transiting in the US need an ESTA is because there are no secure international transit areas at US airports as there are in European airports. Upon departing an international flight all passengers must pick up any checked bags, go through Immigration and Customs, then pass through security again before heading to their next flight. At this point they have "entered" the US, and there is no secure channel for them to continue to their gate. They could simply leave the airport. Therefore every passenger needs to qualify to enter the country, whether in transit to another country or not.
Can you clarify one thing please, @MickMac.. If there is freedom of movement between N Ireland and Ireland for UK passport holders, if someone then left Ireland, to go to mainland EU, is that noted in their passport? Just curious as I have freedom of movement to both.Travel between Ireland and Britain is part of an agreed common travel area, with no restrictions.
Ireland is an EU member and travel to our European mainland is covered by freedom of movement, no restrictions are involved.
Hope this clarifies this, travel arrangements also cover people born on the Island of Ireland and are entitled to an Irish passport the same freedoms apply.
There is freedom of movement for US passport holders. We passed through immigration at London, flew to Belfast, drove to Éire. The only requirement we had going from NI to RoI was to note the difference between the currency and the flags.If there is freedom of movement between N Ireland and Ireland for UK passport holders
That bit I understand, it was if a UK passport holder wanted to fly or take the ferry to France, for example, from R of Ireland, what would happen at passport control as they are already technically in the EU?There is freedom of movement for US passport holders. We passed through immigration at London, flew to Belfast, drove to Éire. The only requirement we had going from NI to RoI was to note the difference between the currency and the flags.
I see. Good question in that UK and Irish passport holders are transiting from Ireland, an EU country to the EU (repeating you) but, at the same time, you are entering the Schengen zone from a non-Schengen nation.That bit I understand, it was if a UK passport holder wanted to fly or take the ferry to France, for example, from R of Ireland, what would happen at passport control as they are already technically in the EU?
Just for clarity, you are referring to non EU passport holder passengers for EES checks. EU passport holders wont have EES checks. (I think this is what you meant anyway) even leaving though Ireland will not exempt traveler from application of EES checks if you have not got EU member country passport.Can you clarify one thing please, @MickMac.. If there is freedom of movement between N Ireland and Ireland for UK passport holders, if someone then left Ireland, to go to mainland EU, is that noted in their passport? Just curious as I have freedom of movement to both.
As I understand it, the controls are in place for the Schengen Zone, not for the EU. There may still be arrangements for travellers from the EU that are no longer available to UK citizens. I generally find the signage at entry points makes it clear which pathway one needs to take on arrival.That bit I understand, it was if a UK passport holder wanted to fly or take the ferry to France, for example, from R of Ireland, what would happen at passport control as they are already technically in the EU?
Doug there will be no restrictions for EU passport holders it will be the same as now.As I understand it, the controls are in place for the Schengen Zone, not for the EU. There may still be arrangements for travellers from the EU that are no longer available to UK citizens. I generally find the signage at entry points makes it clear which pathway one needs to take on arrival.
Are you expecting these arrangements to be similar to those that once applied to UK citizens before the UK left the EU? My experience then was that there separate entry paths for EU (incl UK) citizens and travellers from other countries. More recently arriving in the UK and with smart gates in place, Australians weren't required to join the long 'rest of the world' queue. The last time we had that privilege that I can recall was arriving in London in the late 70s.Doug there will be no restrictions for EU passport holders it will be the same as now.
Every time I've changed planes in a country other than my destination, I could have left the airport but never needed any paperwork for it. So, I see the rationale, but perhaps it's an overreaction to our national paranoia about immigration. A couple of times, I actually had enough time to go outside and back in and did so.But it's my understanding that the reason why passengers who are only transiting in the US need an ESTA is because there are no secure international transit areas at US airports as there are in European airports. Upon departing an international flight all passengers must pick up any checked bags, go through Immigration and Customs, then pass through security again before heading to their next flight. At this point they have "entered" the US, and there is no secure channel for them to continue to their gate. They could simply leave the airport. Therefore every passenger needs to qualify to enter the country, whether in transit to another country or not.
I am sorry, there is no such thing as an English citizen.The report was carried in the English Guardian news journal so its from a point of view of English citizens.
¿Qué?; Quoi?; Was?; Beth?; וואס?; Nini?; D'y'what?I am sorry, there is no such thing as an English citizen.
It is part of the ETIAS system being introduced which needs to be applied for in advance for non EU citizens and there will be a fee of 7 euroWhat is the takeaway information for pilgrims here?
Don't forget to take your fingers and your valid passports with you when you travel across borders. Starting now, all through 2024 and 2025, and probably indefinitely!
Facial scans and fingerprints.It is part of the ETIAS system being introduced which needs to be applied for in advance for non EU citizens and there will be a fee of 7 euro
When filling out the application, you will be asked to provide the following information:
I should point out that this is not in effect as yet, probably late 2024
- Personal information including your name(s), surname, date and place of birth, nationality, home address, parents’ first names, email address and phone number;
- Travel document details;
- Details about your level of education and current occupation;
- Details about your intended travel and stay in any of the countries requiring ETIAS;
- Details about any criminal convictions, any past travels to war or conflict zones, and whether you have recently been subject of a decision requiring you to leave the territory of any country.
Yes. When people buy their plane tickets, the airline will likely be reminding them to check any other paperwork that is needed when they check in. The airline does not want to reject passengers at check-in!It is part of the ETIAS system being introduced which needs to be applied for in advance for non EU citizens and there will be a fee of 7 euro
According to the official EU ETIAS site it won't happen until at least mid 2025.It is part of the ETIAS system being introduced which needs to be applied for in advance for non EU citizens and there will be a fee of 7 euro
When filling out the application, you will be asked to provide the following information:
I should point out that this is not in effect as yet, probably late 2024
- Personal information including your name(s), surname, date and place of birth, nationality, home address, parents’ first names, email address and phone number;
- Travel document details;
- Details about your level of education and current occupation;
- Details about your intended travel and stay in any of the countries requiring ETIAS;
- Details about any criminal convictions, any past travels to war or conflict zones, and whether you have recently been subject of a decision requiring you to leave the territory of any country.
The U S only at this point look and stamp passports from other countries.The EES is not just for British nationals but for all TCNs (what the EU calls third country nationals, i.e. British, Americans, Canadians, Australians and about 55+ other nationalities). The EES will be introduced at all external EU borders - sea, air, land. Your passports will no longer get stamped. It is not a Brexit thing.
Nobody knows much about the delays that the introduction of the EES system will actually cause for TCN travellers who travel to an EU Schengen country for the first time under the EES system. Whether all countries and all their airports, seaports, and terrestrial crossings that mark an external EU border will be ready by the autumn of 2024 or not. They will have to communicate yes or no by August 2024.
That the Dover port authorities have been concerned about EES related delays in view of Channel crossings and that the French government has been concerned about EES related delays in view of foreign visitors arriving by air or sea for the Olympic Games in the summer of 2024 has been in the news for a long time, at least for 12 months and longer.
Currently, the "big" news is the fact that there is, for the first time, mention of a date: 6 October 2024. Whether this is an official EU wide start or merely the start of test runs in Dover is anyone's guess.
I'd suggest that we just sit back and let it develop. And that we wait until the first person has actually travelled through an EES point of entry and had their fingerprints taken and their face scanned. Doesn't the US immigration service do this with non-US travellers and has done so for umpteen years?
Just for a bit of fun and ponder as I will...¿Qué?; Quoi?; Was?; Beth?; וואס?; Nini?; D'y'what?
I'm English; though there are many that would dispute that. Born here. That makes me a citizen of England. It also makes me a citizen of the United Kingdom(s) (according to the Home Office that issues my passports) and a British citizen according to a few, including the very nice Ambassador in Kabul that got me out of a sticky one once.
I'll rely on being: "citizen: a person who was born in a particular country and has certain rights or has been given certain rights because of having lived there"
I'm with you, pal, on that..my noggin hurts, too.I have just read all of this thread and my brain hurts. Obviously I can only speak for me, I am going to wait and watch. I worked in IT for 40 years and I have a healthy scepticism regarding any dates published by government agencies.
Merry Christmas to you all
It‘s the “travel news” producers in the news media and we on social media who are making most of the fuss about it.I have a healthy scepticism regarding any dates published by government agencies.
Precisely, my point being that officially the term is British Citizen as in anyone born in England, for travel purposes overseas, is a British Citizen. I thought the post was relating to international 3rd country travel and the EU?¿Qué?; Quoi?; Was?; Beth?; וואס?; Nini?; D'y'what?
I'm English; though there are many that would dispute that. Born here. That makes me a citizen of England. It also makes me a citizen of the United Kingdom(s) (according to the Home Office that issues my passports) and a British citizen according to a few, including the very nice Ambassador in Kabul that got me out of a sticky one once.
I'll rely on being: "citizen: a person who was born in a particular country and has certain rights or has been given certain rights because of having lived there"
You were right the first time.Precisely, my point being that officially the term is British Citizen as in anyone born in England, for travel purposes overseas, is a British Citizen. I thought the post was relating to international 3rd country travel and the EU?
This retired software engineer agrees. Our USA "real ID" mandate has been postponed more than once. Part of my career, though, was in health care, and USA was on ICD-9 code ages after Europe was on ICD-10.I have just read all of this thread and my brain hurts. Obviously I can only speak for me, I am going to wait and watch. I worked in IT for 40 years and I have a healthy scepticism regarding any dates published by government agencies.
Hi, thanks for this summary, it helped clear a few things. Do you happen to know if the timelines are still looking like late 2024/2025 for the ETIAS/EES bit? I'm a South African but have a British passport and will travel on it for my camino. I'm planning to walk the Camino Frances from 23 April 2024, then go to Portugal for 2 weeks to walk some of the camino there before returning to Spain for another 21 days. I'll exit for SA on the 1st of July so 70 days in the EU in total; I am struggling to get absolute clarity on if this itinerary meets the 90 days out of 180 days rule. I find it a bit ambiguous the way the Spanish consulate rules state it. Not sure if I am being particularly stupid! Based on my itinerary above do you know if I will be able to exit and then re-enter Spain like this on my UK passport without any need for a visa? Thanks in advance for any clarity you or anyone else can bring.There is occasionally at bit of a mix up between the EU’s future EES and the EU’s future ETIAS in this thread. In a nutshell:
EES: Fingerprints and face scan. Free of charge. At the airport. For EU foreigners. Planned to start in the fall of 2024. Perhaps on 6 October. Perhaps in all EU international airports and EU international seaports or only in some at first, depending on whether they go for a slow rollout or a big bang rollout.
ETIAS: Online application to be filled in. A €7 fee. Done at home before departure. For visa exempt EU foreigners. Planned to start 6 monts after the start of EES. If EES starts in fall 2024, then ETIAS will start in spring 2025. If EES starts after the fall 2024 then ETIAS will start after the spring of 2025.
Edited to add: “For visa exempt EU foreigners“ means the EU foreigners without a visa and with the 90 days out of 180 days rule.
The entry / re-entry is Schengen, not Spain, or Portugal. You're planning to spend 70 days in Schengen out of the 90 available to you. You do not have a problem.Hi, thanks for this summary, it helped clear a few things. Do you happen to know if the timelines are still looking like late 2024/2025 for the ETIAS/EES bit? I'm a South African but have a British passport and will travel on it for my camino. I'm planning to walk the Camino Frances from 23 April 2024, then go to Portugal for 2 weeks to walk some of the camino there before returning to Spain for another 21 days. I'll exit for SA on the 1st of July so 70 days in the EU in total; I am struggling to get absolute clarity on if this itinerary meets the 90 days out of 180 days rule. I find it a bit ambiguous the way the Spanish consulate rules state it. Not sure if I am being particularly stupid! Based on my itinerary above do you know if I will be able to exit and then re-enter Spain like this on my UK passport without any need for a visa? Thanks in advance for any clarity you or anyone else can bring.
Welcome to the forum, @RuthPenfold!I'll exit for SA on the 1st of July so 70 days in the EU in total; I am struggling to get absolute clarity on if this itinerary meets the 90 days out of 180 days rule. I find it a bit ambiguous the way the Spanish consulate rules state it. Not sure if I am being particularly stupid!
Thank you both for the clarity. That's a reliefWelcome to the forum, @RuthPenfold!
As @Tincatinker has already confirmed, your itinerary meets the 90 days out of 180 days rule.
During your stay of 70 days you can move between Spain and Portugal as often as you like.
I don't know how the Spanish consulate has stated the rules. Government websites often just quote laws or use legal language and this is not particularly user friendly. Just in case: When they speak of something like "entry conditions" in this context, they mean entry of persons travelling from non-EU countries like the UK or South Africa to Spain. They don't mean travel from Portugal or France to Spain and vice versa.
As to the future: The EES/ETIAS system will leave the 90 days out of 180 days rule unchanged.
Buen Camino!
That’s perfectly normal. The planned implementation date has been between one and two years from the present day for the last five or more years.I see the website is now stating Mid 2025 for the start of this.
And some groups of travellers, for example those who travel to the EU for the very first time, may not even have to pay the mandatory ETIAS fee before 2026 because first there will be a transitional period of at least 6 months and then there will be a grace period of again at least 6 months.the website is now stating Mid 2025 for the start of this.
There is only one official ETIAS website: europa.eu/etias
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