- Time of past OR future Camino
- Many
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Brilliant idea. I suggest you take a look at Active Captain, a crowd sourced boating app, that overlays marine charts and allows input from boaters on routes, marinas, hazards, stops, etc. It would be a phenomenal way to step up access to Camino travel info.Hello all. I’ve been tinkering around with an idea that I think would benefit the pilgrim community and I wanted to run it by the veterans here and the lurking future pilgrims too.
The idea is simple, and is meant to help pilgrims who would like to walk some of the lesser traveled routes to Santiago to get the best information available, by having them write it themselves for the pilgrims who follow behind.
I have the means and the experience to publish books and mobile apps, and that is what I would like to offer to the project… as well as a role in sifting though comments and notes to make sure the whole thing doesn’t become a big mess.
I see the individual guides evolving as such:
1. I will get it started by creating an app just like the others that I have made, specific to a camino. It will contain the usual places and distances and mapping capabilities, and will have at least some start of accommodation listings. This last part really depends on the route, and what I already have collected.
2. The app is free to use, and pilgrims who walk can leave comments along the way. Anything and everything is useful, from mentions of fountains to descriptions of stuff along the way. These comments then get distilled and rolled into the next version of the app (though they are always readable until that edit/publish happens).
3. Once we get to a point where there is a publishable volume, and it seems like the idea should be committed to paper, I will fill in the gaps with the same kind of maps that appear in my other guides. This can be published as a pdf or print on demand or whatever the community deems most suitable.
This isn’t a profitable enterprise by any means, the apps remain free and the books are sold at a level which covers costs of printing if there are any.
It is however a good way, I think, to get better information into the hands of pilgrims wanting to walk the Madrid route, or the Olvidado, or any number of other routes. Many first time pilgrims, or even 2nd/3rd time pilgrims avoid these routes due to the lack of information more than the lack of infrastructure.
I had in mind to begin with exactly the two routes mentioned above, as those are the two that I have done the most research on. However if it turns out that there is someone that wants to contribute enough information on a particular route, I am happy to hear about it.
So what do you all think? Is there a large enough need (a low threshold) for such an initiative? Furthermore, are there any pilgrims reading this that would like to contribute their knowledge to the task?
Or just thoughts in general. I don’t imagine many high quality guides will ever be produced to many of these routes, they are neglected by publishers for their lack of economic viability and by the local government for the same. Might this be a way to make one of our own?
Best regards from Santiago,
Michael
It's not a bad idea, but I don't want to reinvent anything here. The app platform has grown stable enough that it should be adequate. The framework of my website should likewise make it simple for pilgrims to plan.Brilliant idea. I suggest you take a look at Active Captain, a crowd sourced boating app, that overlays marine charts and allows input from boaters on routes, marinas, hazards, stops, etc. It would be a phenomenal way to step up access to Camino travel info.
With your camino wisdom would you please tell me the distinction between the Olvidado and the Viejo? Do they actually start in different locations? Is it the same but just called different names? Thanks in advance.Yay! WisePilgrim is back!
We have done a few “virtual deep dive planning threads” since covid. Vdlp/Sanabrés, Levante, Invierno, Viejo (using that term to distinguish the Olvidado — from Bilbao to Ponferrada — from the Viejo — from Pamplona to Aguilar (on the Olvidado) and then on to Ponferrada) and currently the Olvidado, which you’ve seen.
I can only speak for myself, but the information on those threads is public and I think those of us who have been involved in these labors of love would be delighted to see the information spread farther and wider!
I’ll PM you Michael.
I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.would you please tell me the distinction between the Olvidado and the Viejo? Do they actually start in different locations? Is it the same but just called different names?
That was barely too much information at all. In fact for an old Camino nut like me, I could have read your narrative even if it was 10 times longer. I love learning about this. I would love if you started some zoom meetings again to discuss your experiences and knowledge about the lesser known and traveled caminos. It would be great to hear from you and some other pilgrims who have walked these routes. Almost invariably a pilgrim who has walked these routes has walked many Caminos and has , like yourself a wealth of interesting and really useful information. I would sign up for those zoom calls for sure. If not thanks so much for this. Cunarro aka Ender would be a great first guest!!!I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.
For years, the route from Bilbao to Ponferrada/Cacabelos was called interchangeably the Camino Olvidado or the Camino Viejo. Then around 6 or 7 years ago, Cuñarro (aka Ender in Camino circles) decided that he had opened up, marked and sufficiently promoted the Salvador from León to Oviedo. Since he lives in the provinces of León about 2/3 of the distance between Bilbao and Ponferrada, and since he has boundless energy and love of the mountains, he turned his attention to this route. The big change came when he was able to bring nearly all of the municipalities along the route into one organization. They agreed that they needed a name, but just one name, and voted on Olvidado rather than Viejo. There are still a few holdouts who refuse to switch over from Viejo, but they are a tiny minority.
It turns out that there is a second “branch” of this route that goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo where it joins the “regular” Olvidado. A few forum members have walked it. To avoid confusion with Olvidado, here on the forum we decided to use the term Viejo to distinguish it. But that’s just us.
Bottom line
Olvidado goes from Bilbao to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
What we call Viejo goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
Hi, @lt56ny I don’t want to derail this thread, but I will put my head togetrher with some others to see about starting up some more zooms on the lesser traveled caminos. I think we did Olvidado, Levante, Mozárabe and Invierno. I understand that different people prefer different types of presentations (oral, pictoral, written), and it is true that we have been focusing more on written threads lately to explore these lesser known caminos. But since this lockdown doesn’t show many signs of letting up yet, maybe some more zooms would be a good way to spice things up a bit.I would love if you started some zoom meetings again to discuss your experiences and knowledge about the lesser known and traveled caminos.
And this is how it ought to be, and how I will structure it. I too was frustrated/confused by the two routes and two names, and this is the perfect compromise.I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.
For years, the route from Bilbao to Ponferrada/Cacabelos was called interchangeably the Camino Olvidado or the Camino Viejo. Then around 6 or 7 years ago, Cuñarro (aka Ender in Camino circles) decided that he had opened up, marked and sufficiently promoted the Salvador from León to Oviedo. Since he lives in the provinces of León about 2/3 of the distance between Bilbao and Ponferrada, and since he has boundless energy and love of the mountains, he turned his attention to this route. The big change came when he was able to bring nearly all of the municipalities along the route into one organization. They agreed that they needed a name, but just one name, and voted on Olvidado rather than Viejo. There are still a few holdouts who refuse to switch over from Viejo, but they are a tiny minority.
It turns out that there is a second “branch” of this route that goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo where it joins the “regular” Olvidado. A few forum members have walked it. To avoid confusion with Olvidado, here on the forum we decided to use the term Viejo to distinguish it. But that’s just us.
Bottom line
Olvidado goes from Bilbao to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
What we call Viejo goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
Boy oh boy, me too. Of all the virtual caminos I've walked this last year (Viejo, Invierno, Via de las Asturias, Levante, Lana+San Salvador+Primativo), that one 'grabs' me the most.I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
Indeed I have already folded Laurie's Invierno content into an app (link below). Laurie inherited the Invierno guide from the CSJ, and they in turn received it from Rebekah Scott and myself. Laurie encouraged me to get it into a nicer form, and a proper book was planned before covid came around, but I did manage to get an app done.@wisepilgrim, this is a wonderful idea, a slightly higher tech version of what Laurie's been shepherding here on the Forum for the Invierno. As she said, there are planning threads here that are worth mining for information.
Yes, it has been submitted and is pending approval. Here is the link, which should start working soon:Would they be available for Android, too?
Thank you, P, for this explanation. I am more of a lurker and know little of the insider stories, so this helps a lot!I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.
For years, the route from Bilbao to Ponferrada/Cacabelos was called interchangeably the Camino Olvidado or the Camino Viejo. Then around 6 or 7 years ago, Cuñarro (aka Ender in Camino circles) decided that he had opened up, marked and sufficiently promoted the Salvador from León to Oviedo. Since he lives in the provinces of León about 2/3 of the distance between Bilbao and Ponferrada, and since he has boundless energy and love of the mountains, he turned his attention to this route. The big change came when he was able to bring nearly all of the municipalities along the route into one organization. They agreed that they needed a name, but just one name, and voted on Olvidado rather than Viejo. There are still a few holdouts who refuse to switch over from Viejo, but they are a tiny minority.
It turns out that there is a second “branch” of this route that goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo where it joins the “regular” Olvidado. A few forum members have walked it. To avoid confusion with Olvidado, here on the forum we decided to use the term Viejo to distinguish it. But that’s just us.
Bottom line
Olvidado goes from Bilbao to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
What we call Viejo goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
I know you had zooms on those subjects. I heard a few of them and it was amazing that on the two I really wanted to participate in, Levante and Mozarabe I had prior commitments. As I am walking the VDLP I know I had asked you about that in the past. If you decide to do more zooms that would be really fantastic! If not you are still fantastic and a wealth of information. Like Davebugg is the go to source for equipment, I don't think anyone has more knowledge or information about the caminos we walk than you. Thanks!Hi, @lt56ny I don’t want to derail this thread, but I will put my head togetrher with some others to see about starting up some more zooms on the lesser traveled caminos. I think we did Olvidado, Levante, Mozárabe and Invierno. I understand that different people prefer different types of presentations (oral, pictoral, written), and it is true that we have been focusing more on written threads lately to explore these lesser known caminos. But since this lockdown doesn’t show many signs of letting up yet, maybe some more zooms would be a good way to spice things up a bit.
I just saw this, and am keen to add it to my list. I have now 4 apps in progress, in varying stages but coming along quickly and nicely.Did anyone mention the excellent work done by virtual Camino on the Ruta de la Lana? That's a route crying out for an app.
Despite its origins as a partly crowd-written resource, I reckon you should include a donation link, instead of making it a freebie.Yes, it has been submitted and is pending approval. Here is the link, which should start working soon:
Wise Pilgrim Camino Invierno - Apps on Google Play
Guide to the Camino de Invierno from Ponferrada to Santiago de Compostelaplay.google.com
Well with your blessing, I will do exactly this. Thanks for the offer.@wisepilgrim : Your idea is priceworthy. I am enjoying your CF app.
FWIW, there's a short "Camino" straight south starting in Burgos, called the Camino San Olav. It is of interest to me as a Norwegien, as it involves a Norwegian viking princess and a marriage some 8-900 years ago.
I have written a guide about it, and you can have it for free here:
It is a 3-4 days walk, some ca. 64 kms, it is a great and easy walk, and you can extend it to the famous Santo Domingo de Silos monestary/village and its singing monks:
This is a Camino not much walked. It is a pity, because if you're on the CF, this is a super opportunity to walk in peace for a few days, off the beaten trail. The lodgings and people along this route are very friendly and welcoming to pilgrims.
Since my guide is here on the Forum for free, please feel free to use it for free to your liking in order to make it (Camino San Olav) accessible to more walkers. I appreciate your initiative, and applaud it.
Indeed I have already folded Laurie's Invierno content into an app (link below)
Wonderful news, Michael. Well done!!BTW, the Invierno will get a healthy dose of new photography (at least the bit inside Galicia) next week.
Also very good news!Yes, it has been submitted and is pending approval. Here is the link, which should start working soon:
The Viejo arm of the Olvidado (Pamplona-Aguilar de Campoo) is 1st on my list to walk in realtime. I think Laurie linked to our virtual version upthread? If not just let me know and I'll send the link to you.Any other routes to consider?
I can add a couple of variants to the start of this from Santo Domingo de Silos. It would be an ideal side trip for anyone on the Frances.Thanks for the offer.
Just a short remark: The route of San Olav is marked in the direction : from Burgos - to Covarrubias. The markings are quite small, My guide is describing that. I would find walking it in the oppsite without GPS tracks or similar quite difficult. But that's me.I can add a couple of variants to the start of this from Santo Domingo de Silos. It would be an ideal side trip for anyone on the Frances.
Well done, @wisepilgrim - you don't waste any time! Gracias!CAMINHO NASCENTE - Now
Brilliant, well done! It was a pleasure to work with you on creating it. And thank you for your very kind comments!CAMINHO NASCENTE - Now Available
It might take a day for google to activate, check back in a bit.@wisepilgrim, I am unable to access the Android link.
Coming to you in 3-4 days!He is now on the Geira, and hopefully I can get something put together for that route too.
+1The Mozarabe from Almería and Málaga to Mérida?
As someone who had glancing input into that, I heartily second the motion.Despite its origins as a partly crowd-written resource, I reckon you should include a donation link, instead of making it a freebie.
Nice! Will you insert the images you refer to?I'm back with another pair of links, this time for the short and sweet Camino San Olav. Hats off to @alexwalker for planting the seed. Anyone looking for a nice diversion from the Francés is encouraged to check it out:
iOS
Android
For info, check out the virtual planning thread I did last year, @wisepilgrim. None of those pics are useable, sadly, as they are screenshots off the web. But both @caminka and @Sheffield James heve walked it, and @Rebekah Scott might have pics, too. This is at the very tippy top of my list to walk in realtime, so I'm happy to know an app might be in the works.In the future I plan to add the Camino Viejo to this app as well. If anybody has photos they would like to contribute, feel free to message me.
Yes. Please.I totally agree about the donativo feature — there should be a way for those of us who are grateful to contribute.
The information you see while scrolling is about way-finding or other important practical things like there being no shop for x kilometres. The information when you click also includes information about sights, accommodation or other non-urgent things.What is the difference between the information on the app as you scroll down from town to town and the information you get when you click on a particular town?
Is it this? If so, then yes, I see itI have just put in some information about the albergue in Villavieja on the Invierno, can someone confirm that I have done it correctly and that others will see it?
Very nifty but FYI @wisepilgrim there is a bug with this in the Finisterre app - it crashes the app when you tap and hold.P.S. What a nifty feature — you hold down and press on the town where you want to start, and voilà, it becomes km0 and all the distances are calibrated from there.
Precisely.The information you see while scrolling is about way-finding or other important practical things like there being no shop for x kilometres. The information when you click also includes information about sights, accommodation or other non-urgent things.
I am aware, and trying hard to find a solution. The problem stems from the fact that this route is the only non-linear route as well as the only route with multiple end destinations. I have a plan and hope to get it fixed this month.Very nifty but FYI @wisepilgrim there is a bug with this in the Finisterre app - it crashes the app when you tap and hold.
Thanks Michael and Nick, I am learning!You are also correct about the offline maps. Once they are downloaded, they can be viewed from the usual map page by toggling the online/offline button at the bottom.
Here you go:. I knew it was there but didn't realize how close it was to the camino. If you know exactly where it goes I am happy to add it
Here's a screenshot of the loop, Laurie, for quick reference; San Martiño is O Priorato on the map, and the little sqiggle that goes into the middle of the circle is the way to Mirador Cabo do Mondo:
I was going to ask you how to get to the map, but I have figured out that it’s reached by touching the little compass indicator in the upper right hand corner when on the home page.By 'usual map page' I refer to the map.
That seems a near universal comment most of us feel too often in regards to software interfaces, even those of us who have been using it for decades.That may be obvious to almost everyone, but it wasn’t to me.
For example, your comment appears on the page for Villavieja, when it may be more appropriate to have it put into the page for the specific albergue. I have left it where it is but will copy the content to the albergue as well.
I will leave it for now, and will incorporate the track in the next app update. If you manage to find one that does well the Cabo do Mundo section send it, otherwise I will make one from what I know of the area... it ought to be pretty straightforward.A couple more questions about adding information. Michael, I put in the web address of Amancio’s GPS tracks for the Borrenes alternative, but maybe you can put the tracks directly into the app, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s helpful having the web address, because it is not a “link,” so feel free to delete.
I used @VNwalking’s tracks, and she just posted them in an Invierno thread. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...agoaza-is-it-worth-a-visit.70708/#post-938161I will leave it for now, and will incorporate the track in the next app update. If you manage to find one that does well the Cabo do Mundo section send it, otherwise I will make one from what I know of the area... it ought to be pretty straightforward.
I was just playing with the app and added a comment and wikiloc link.I used @VNwalking’s tracks, and she just posted them in an Invierno thread.
It is probably useful, but it is not possible. The comments are connected to the content on wisepilgrim.com, where photos are not supported.I was just playing with the app and added a comment and wikiloc link.
@wisepilgrim, I hesitate to ask this, knowing you're a pro, but is it possible/useful to add photos in the comments?
I am working on it now, it will be ready by mid-September if all goes as planned.Michael, I have scanned this thread and did not see that an app for the Levante is in progress. I am hoping for this, as I plan to start walking it in mid-September. The recent and detailed thread about this route was mentioned by @peregrina2000 in post #5 above as a basis for information for such an app .
Yes, only I can see them. My experience with the other apps was that the subject line was often filled with junk and it made for a poor experience.Here is my newbie question of the day. I just inserted all of @Joergen’s information on the albergue in Monforte. I was careful to put it in the accommodation comments and not the city comments. I gave the subject as “Monforte now has an albergue” or something like that. The body of the comments gave all the information.
I think that when I go back to look at the comments now, the subject line is not visible, so no one will know I’m talking about an albergue.
Am I right that the subject lines are visible only to you, oh wise one?
That should be a well-known feature becaues if you look at my Monforte post, without the subject line you won’t know what I’m talking about. Can you edit that? And also, you might want to put some kind of notation in the subject line. Maybe modify what’s there now (“enter a helpful subject”) and say “subject line will only be seen by moderator or something like that.Yes, only I can see them. My experience with the other apps was that the subject line was often filled with junk and it made for a poor experience.
I think I should revisit this functionality in all of the apps, and for now I will include it in tonight's update of the Invierno app (available whenever apple approves it). It will only apply to new comments made from today onward, but that might be a good thing. It looks like this now:That should be a well-known feature becaues if you look at my Monforte post, without the subject line you won’t know what I’m talking about. Can you edit that? And also, you might want to put some kind of notation in the subject line. Maybe modify what’s there now (“enter a helpful subject”) and say “subject line will only be seen by moderator or something like that.
Michael, the Nascente guide will be invaluable to me in later this year. Thanks to you and NickCAMINHO NASCENTE - Now Available
This is just to say that I have wrapped up the initial version of the first of these new guides. It was carried by @jungleboy and he did an incredible job of confirming and correcting the gps track, which in many many cases deviated from the most up-to-date versions available on wikiloc.... so three cheers for that!
He also took the time to write out suggestions for what to see, and where to sleep, and where to eat.
And to top it all off he lent his talents as a photographer and gave the whole thing a bit of color.
This would not have been possible without him, so on behalf of myself and everyone who will follow in his footsteps I would like to extend my gratitude. He is now on the Geira, and hopefully I can get something put together for that route too.
So now I leave it in the hands of the next intrepid Nascente pilgrims, you are welcome to download and add to the app via comments. I keep an eye on them and when the app merits an update I will do so. I will also take some time in the coming weeks to update the accommodation list to make it searchable.
Here are the links:
iOS
Android
Michael, this sounds so wonderful! I'm possibly the least technical person on the forum but would be so willing to share. We will be hiking Le Puy to Santiago (Muxia and Finisterre) and I am willing to help in any way I can. Will the Le Puy template be up and running for me to share?Hello all. I’ve been tinkering around with an idea that I think would benefit the pilgrim community and I wanted to run it by the veterans here and the lurking future pilgrims too.
The idea is simple, and is meant to help pilgrims who would like to walk some of the lesser traveled routes to Santiago to get the best information available, by having them write it themselves for the pilgrims who follow behind.
I have the means and the experience to publish books and mobile apps, and that is what I would like to offer to the project… as well as a role in sifting though comments and notes to make sure the whole thing doesn’t become a big mess.
I see the individual guides evolving as such:
1. I will get it started by creating an app just like the others that I have made, specific to a camino. It will contain the usual places and distances and mapping capabilities, and will have at least some start of accommodation listings. This last part really depends on the route, and what I already have collected.
2. The app is free to use, and pilgrims who walk can leave comments along the way. Anything and everything is useful, from mentions of fountains to descriptions of stuff along the way. These comments then get distilled and rolled into the next version of the app (though they are always readable until that edit/publish happens).
3. Once we get to a point where there is a publishable volume, and it seems like the idea should be committed to paper, I will fill in the gaps with the same kind of maps that appear in my other guides. This can be published as a pdf or print on demand or whatever the community deems most suitable.
This isn’t a profitable enterprise by any means, the apps remain free and the books are sold at a level which covers costs of printing if there are any.
It is however a good way, I think, to get better information into the hands of pilgrims wanting to walk the Madrid route, or the Olvidado, or any number of other routes. Many first time pilgrims, or even 2nd/3rd time pilgrims avoid these routes due to the lack of information more than the lack of infrastructure.
I had in mind to begin with exactly the two routes mentioned above, as those are the two that I have done the most research on. However if it turns out that there is someone that wants to contribute enough information on a particular route, I am happy to hear about it.
So what do you all think? Is there a large enough need (a low threshold) for such an initiative? Furthermore, are there any pilgrims reading this that would like to contribute their knowledge to the task?
Or just thoughts in general. I don’t imagine many high quality guides will ever be produced to many of these routes, they are neglected by publishers for their lack of economic viability and by the local government for the same. Might this be a way to make one of our own?
Best regards from Santiago,
Michael
The app is available (I have the android version), and your contribution would be fantastic and most appreciated!Michael, this sounds so wonderful! I'm possibly the least technical person on the forum but would be so willing to share. We will be hiking Le Puy to Santiago (Muxia and Finisterre) and I am willing to help in any way I can. Will the Le Puy template be up and running for me to share?
Please reach out to me if I need an education on how to share, but would love to help, I totally believe in your mission!!!
Thank you,
Neve
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