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EVEN more about soap and shampoo!

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Camino Portugues, June 2019
Different soaps work well or badly for different people, depending on skin type and various preferences (cleansing vs moisturizing, hard bar vs lather, scent or no scent, etc.)

Sorry to be a soap nerd/snob, but, besides being a soapmaker, my background is in clinical research and I am a restless researcher/investigator/experimenter. So here are some facts:

Dr. Bronner's is not a Castile soap, no matter what the label says. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky, but this bugs me. Castile soap, by definition uses 100% olive oil (or some say at least 80%). Castile soap was developed long ago because they had a hard time getting laurel berry oil in Europe in the old days, so the Spanish came up with Castile soap.

Olive oil isn't even the main ingredient in Dr. Bronner's soap. It also contains palm oil, that contributes to the clear-cutting of rain forest, endangering species like rhinos and orangutans. No question it smells and feels great, especially the peppermint. None of this may be practical information for the user, but I'm just sayin'.

Ivory soap is not "pure," "natural," "gentle," or "simple." It's not even really a soap (check out the label, which doesn't even call it a soap). The original version was so harsh on the skin, they had to even add a bunch of ingredients to counter-act that. Ivory soap is a detergent.

NOT to say that Dr. Bronners and Ivory don't work well for a lot of people... they obviously do, according to some accounts here.

Re. bar soap as shampoo:

Real soap is made with sodium hydroxide (lye). The lye dissipates after saponifying the oils, but the resulting pH of bar soaps, while fine for skin, is generally incompatible with hair. It is way too alkaline, which is why many recommend a vinegar wash afterwards to counteract that (vinegar is acidic). Some of what may seem to be increased volume, etc. in hair washed with soap may be because of roughing up the hair cuticle which can result in long-term damage to hair. This is true no matter how many natural, nourishing oils the soap is made with. This being said, bar soap does seem to work for some people just fine as a shampoo. It depends on the hair type. But for many people, it won't.

But this is why many prefer Lush and other bar shampoos called "syndet shampoo bars." Yes, they are made with more processed ingredients, but have the advantages of being better for your hair, not requiring a vinegar rinse, and all the practicality of bar soap: lightweight, easy to carry, no liquid. BTW, Lush soap - like most liquid shampoos - contains sodium laurel sulfate, which many people avoid because of skin irritation and possible links to cancer. A better ingredient to look for is sodium laurel sulfoacetate. I know it sounds just as bad, but it is milder for the skin and not linked to health problems. Here's some more info. on that. http://slsfree.net/sodium-lauryl-sulfoacetate/

A great supplier of bar shampoo and bar conditioner online I found is GetLathered on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/GetLathered

Yes, besides making bar soaps with natural (non-animal products) oils, I have also started making bar shampoos and conditioners. They work great for me. I sell em too, but the bar shampoos/conditioners from GetLathered are more advanced and prettier than mine. The point of this post is not to promote my own products.
 
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alaskadiver

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017-Camino Primitivo
April 2019-Camino de Invierno
I just bought these little sachets of conditioning shampoo. Single use and the weight drops as I use each one. They weigh next to nothing since they are not packaged in plastic bottles and I only need enough for 2 weeks. Actually less than that since I'm spending 2 nights in Lugo at a hotel. I love Bronner's for body wash and my husband uses it both body and hair. Everybody has to find their own thing that works for them I guess.
But my sachet's would probably not be practical for something doing a 30 Camino.
 

natefaith

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Sarria-Santiago (2009)
León-Ponferrada (2014)
Camino Inglés (2017)
I just bought these little sachets of conditioning shampoo. Single use and the weight drops as I use each one. They weigh next to nothing since they are not packaged in plastic bottles and I only need enough for 2 weeks. Actually less than that since I'm spending 2 nights in Lugo at a hotel. I love Bronner's for body wash and my husband uses it both body and hair. Everybody has to find their own thing that works for them I guess.
But my sachet's would probably not be practical for something doing a 30 Camino.
Great tip. Do you have a link as well? I think many of us would be open to exploring other alternatives like sachets.
Faith
 

alaskadiver

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017-Camino Primitivo
April 2019-Camino de Invierno
Leave the shampoo at home. Your hair really doesn't need it. Just rinse your hair in the shower each day and it will be just fine...and you'll have less weight to drag across the Earth...
No thanks. I will continue with my regular hygiene regimen. I also use soap on my body and not just water :)
 

MikeJS

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francis (2011), Norte (2012), VdlP (Apr 2016). Sureste/Invierno (Apr/May 2017).
Seems way to complicated to me. I use a bar of 'Fairly ' a U.K. Soap for everything. Maybe that's why I've not got much hair left.
 

Waka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Some but not all, and other routes too.
Not that I have a great deal of hair, but the thought of just washing it with water, not on this mans head I like the suds on me head.
Everyone to their own, thats what makes life interesting.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
Leave the shampoo at home. Your hair really doesn't need it. Just rinse your hair in the shower each day and it will be just fine...and you'll have less weight to drag across the Earth...
Agreed. Shampoo was a need invented by P&G in the last century. I'm a curly hair girl, so shampoo is a big no-no. A good conditioner helps untangle and clean the hair and scalp.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/fashion/no-shampoo-regimens-replace-the-suds.html?_r=0

And then about soap for the body and not killing the biome. Same thing.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2015-12-17/no-soap-no-shampoo-no-problem-why-some-paleo-followers-are-shunning-conventional-hygiene-products
 
Last edited by a moderator:

patgreen

Member
Thank you for being a soap nerd. I think you confirmed that I'm using a good soap.
I normally use Oliva for everything. I sometimes use a different soap for washing clothes, just to make the Oliva last longer. It's sold locally to me in England.
 

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Getter1989

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino del Norte/Primitivo (summer 2017)
I think there are other people like me, who are really confused about this "soap-shampoo-washing your clothes" thing. I will be doing my first camino this summer and am trying to really keep things "light". I've been reading all kinds of posts about how you can use one soap for everything, then posts how using "bodysoap" on your hair could damage it and ending with recommendations of not using anything but water (which isn't weird either). I know that everybody is different and probably with time and trying i would find what suits for me, but changing a shampoo and seeing its real effect on hair could take a couple of weeks. I could probably spend a year trying shampoos-conditioners-soaps :D

I'm not complaining, but what would be the wisest/lightest/healthiest? solution? :)
Which soap could do the job for the hair, the body and the clothes?

Wishing a sunny sunday for everyone! :)
 

notion900

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
>
'Normal' bar soap isn't good for hair if you have any quantity of hair. It will make the hair feel 'gritty' and tangle up (I think that's what @JillGat is referring to when she mentions 'roughing up the cuticle'). It's also not that good for sock washing as it doesn't rinse well and leaves a tacky 'squeaky' feel.

Shampoo bars such as Lush are highly rinsable and can be used on hair, body and clothes. I really like them but the only downside is they can go soft and need air drying after each usage. Also useable on all 3 are non moisturising 'shower gels' such as Johnson's Baby Top-To-Toe Bath (available in travel miniature size).

I had not thought of the palm oil issue, I confess. I tend to buy a travel mini of the baby bath then look out for abandoned shower gel bottles in bathrooms for a refill.
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Camino Portugues, June 2019
Leave the shampoo at home. Your hair really doesn't need it. Just rinse your hair in the shower each day and it will be just fine...and you'll have less weight to drag across the Earth...
Thanks for the man-splanation!
(how long is YOUR hair?)
:)
 
Camino(s) past & future
planning for spring 2018
I'm not sold on the one soap for everything like Lush. And the price, one Lush soap is $20+ American, seems a bit over priced. A Fels Naptha bar for clothes which works exceedingly well in cold water and a Trader Joe Oatmeal bar for body and hair suits me. I can handle the extra weight of two bars of soap. If my hair is gritty for 6 weeks so be it, and even as a man at my age (69) I still have all of my hair, so as long as it remains attached to my skull I'll be happy.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2 - 2016 & 2017, El Norte - Irun to Vilalba 2018
I'm not sold on the one soap for everything like Lush. And the price, one Lush soap is $20+ American, seems a bit over priced. A Fels Naptha bar for clothes which works exceedingly well in cold water and a Trader Joe Oatmeal bar for body and hair suits me. I can handle the extra weight of two bars of soap. If my hair is gritty for 6 weeks so be it, and even as a man at my age (69) I still have all of my hair, so as long as it remains attached to my skull I'll be happy.
I agree that the Lush bars are very expensive, especially for their size. I like the bars from the Etsy shop that Jill mentioned, and also this one https://www.etsy.com/shop/LakeSuperiorSoap?ref=listing-shop2-all-items-count#items
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Camino Portugues, June 2019

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Camino Portugues, June 2019
No I don't...that's why I don't use one. Anyway, how does soap make hair easier to comb?
Shampoo and conditioner definitely make hair easier to comb and deal with compared to soap or nothing. Unless you have dreads. :)
 

loumura

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Portugues March 2019
Different soaps work well or badly for different people, depending on skin type and various preferences (cleansing vs moisturizing, hard bar vs lather, scent or no scent, etc.)

Sorry to be a soap nerd/snob, but, besides being a soapmaker, my background is in clinical research and I am a restless researcher/investigator/experimenter. So here are some facts:

Dr. Bronner's is not a Castile soap, no matter what the label says. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky, but this bugs me. Castile soap, by definition uses 100% olive oil (or some say at least 80%). Castile soap was developed long ago because they had a hard time getting laurel berry oil in Europe in the old days, so the Spanish came up with Castile soap.

Olive oil isn't even the main ingredient in Dr. Bronner's soap. It also contains palm oil, that contributes to the clear-cutting of rain forest, endangering species like rhinos and orangutans. No question it smells and feels great, especially the peppermint. None of this may be practical information for the user, but I'm just sayin'.

Ivory soap is not "pure," "natural," "gentle," or "simple." It's not even really a soap (check out the label, which doesn't even call it a soap). The original version was so harsh on the skin, they had to even add a bunch of ingredients to counter-act that. Ivory soap is a detergent.

NOT to say that Dr. Bronners and Ivory don't work well for a lot of people... they obviously do, according to some accounts here.

Re. bar soap as shampoo:

Real soap is made with sodium hydroxide (lye). The lye dissipates after saponifying the oils, but the resulting pH of bar soaps, while fine for skin, is generally incompatible with hair. It is way too alkaline, which is why many recommend a vinegar wash afterwards to counteract that (vinegar is acidic). Some of what may seem to be increased volume, etc. in hair washed with soap may be because of roughing up the hair cuticle which can result in long-term damage to hair. This is true no matter how many natural, nourishing oils the soap is made with. This being said, bar soap does seem to work for some people just fine as a shampoo. It depends on the hair type. But for many people, it won't.

But this is why many prefer Lush and other bar shampoos called "syndet shampoo bars." Yes, they are made with more processed ingredients, but have the advantages of being better for your hair, not requiring a vinegar rinse, and all the practicality of bar soap: lightweight, easy to carry, no liquid. BTW, Lush soap - like most liquid shampoos - contains sodium laurel sulfate, which many people avoid because of skin irritation and possible links to cancer. A better ingredient to look for is sodium laurel sulfoacetate. I know it sounds just as bad, but it is milder for the skin and not linked to health problems. Here's some more info. on that. http://slsfree.net/sodium-lauryl-sulfoacetate/

A great supplier of bar shampoo and bar conditioner online I found is GetLathered on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/GetLathered

Yes, besides making bar soaps with natural (non-animal products) oils, I have also started making bar shampoos and conditioners. They work great for me. I sell em too, but the bar shampoos/conditioners from GetLathered are more advanced and prettier than mine. The point of this post is not to promote my own products.
Wow! Thanks for sharing that bit about palm oil in Dr. Bronner's!!! I had NO idea and since I have made a habit of reading all ingredients in labels and NEVER buy any product that has palm oil in it, I appreciate your research! Palm oil is in so many products and the rainforests are being cut down by millions of trees a day in Indonesia so palm can be planted as it's an ingredient in so many products. I just can't morally any longer support this horrid practice and I hope others become aware of the devastation being done! Harrison Ford narrated the documentary "Years of Living Dangerously" about palm oil production and I'd urge everyone to watch it on Netflixs! Thanks again
 

GettingThere

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Roncesvalles-SdC Apr-Jun 2015
Roncesvalles-Sarria Sep-Oct 2017
(Apr -Jun 2019: Roncesvalles-SdC)
Wow! Thanks for sharing that bit about palm oil in Dr. Bronner's!!! I had NO idea and since I have made a habit of reading all ingredients in labels and NEVER buy any product that has palm oil in it, I appreciate your research! Palm oil is in so many products and the rainforests are being cut down by millions of trees a day in Indonesia so palm can be planted as it's an ingredient in so many products. I just can't morally any longer support this horrid practice and I hope others become aware of the devastation being done! Harrison Ford narrated the documentary "Years of Living Dangerously" about palm oil production and I'd urge everyone to watch it on Netflixs! Thanks again
Please check facts before posting. This 2013 article explains that they use sustainably grown palm oil that does not contribute to habitat destruction: https://www.drbronner.com/media-center/press-release/dr-bronners-demonstrates-palm-oil-can-produced-sustainably-fair-trade-organic-certification/

Not all palm oil is the same.
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Camino Portugues, June 2019
Please check facts before posting. This 2013 article explains that they use sustainably grown palm oil that does not contribute to habitat destruction: https://www.drbronner.com/media-center/press-release/dr-bronners-demonstrates-palm-oil-can-produced-sustainably-fair-trade-organic-certification/

Not all palm oil is the same.
Thanks for posting this. Good to know that palm oil can be sustainably grown and harvested.

Did Dr.Bronner ever defend the "Castile Soap" claim? I know, I'm a soap nerd for caring. In almost all other ways, Dr. Bronner is a fine company setting a great example for other corporations to follow.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
LUSH is so highly scented, it gives me a headache to stand next to someone who has used it.
I don't understand WHY people have to perfume themselves up.
If they're clean, they don't need all that
Just sayin' :::in a grouchy voice:::
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Camino Portugues, June 2019
LUSH is so highly scented, it gives me a headache to stand next to someone who has used it.
I don't understand WHY people have to perfume themselves up.
If they're clean, they don't need all that
Just sayin' :::in a grouchy voice:::
Amen. I hold my breath if I even have to walk by their shop.
 

Daxzentzu

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
FRANCES (2018) in planning
Me too I need scuba gear when passing Lush in Middlesbrough this morning

I’ve heard from others that Lush have some relevant stuff

But I took the plunge just now and bought a Godiva shampoo bar - fir my ablutions - once a week- whether I need them or not

The staff were brilliant and they showed me the toothy tabs and the mouthwash tabs - superb - I bought them too and was really pleased with some samples too
 

Daxzentzu

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
FRANCES (2018) in planning
Also I will be taking a bar of traditional carbolic medicated soap
 

Jamieb

New Member
If you are in the States and have a Duluth Trading Co store around you - try the Liggetss Tea Tree and Hemp Bar Shampoo. I just purchased it to test it - so far it is ok. I haven't tried to wash any clothing with it yet - But it advertises as a soap you can use on your body, shampoo, wash clothing and your dishes. I think it was $8.95 for the bar and supposed to last 24 washes.
 

Sarah 619

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
No
Hello, thanks for brief deeply difference between castile soap. I am the mom of baby and my baby was allergic problem then I go to our family doctor he recommend me the Dr.Bronner's Baby Mild Liquid Soap. After that day I never see allergic problem in my baby.
 

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