Hello, just joined forum.

[elizamanda]

Hi, I've just recently heard of the Camino. Would love to do it in 2010. Thought it would be a great thing to do after my youngest child finishes school. I would like to fund raise as part of it. Wondering how one links up to a charity. Also wondering if it is ok to do this walk if you are Jewish. Do many Jewish people do this walk? Wondering if you would feel out of place? I like the sound of the walk for many reasons. The feeling of community, with a goal and purpose and everyone working together to move forward. The sense of sharing and meeting new people. Being in the fresh air, enjoying the country-side and experiencing Europe at a slow pace. Look forward to hearing from you. Best regards Elizamanda.

 

[Sagalouts]

hi
welcome,like yourself we ( ian and rosie) are planning our camino for 2010 also when our youngest of 5 finishes school.
as for the numbers of jewish people doing the camino sorry no idea, but don't think its such a big deal.

 

[sillydoll]

Hi there,
What a great goal to look forward to!
Many Jewish people walk el camino. These are the words of a 12thC Latin Hymn, La Pretiosa, sung at Roncesvalles:

Its doors are open to the sick and well
to Catholics as well as to pagans,
Jews, Heretics, beggars and the indigent,
and it embraces all like brothers.

And, in the 21stC, Canon Genaro Cebrián of the Pilgrims' Office wrote:

"There is no Compostela for the believer, but to those pilgrims in search of faith or driven by faith, albeit very fuzzily," he says in a humble office surrounded by rock, paper and moisture.
"They are not asked about the faith- if they are Catholic, Buddhist or Islamic - just whether their reason is religion," he said. Therefore, atheists and agnostics can only aspire to a document alternative "welcome".
The Queen was among the latter. Dona Sofia toured a few years ago kilometers accompanied by members of the Guardia Real, and at the end of the road, they requeste the 'Compostela' for Her Majesty. But Cebrián refused because she had not fulfilled the requirements, so she was offered a souvenir document only. "

Enjoy your planning!

 

[elizamanda]

Lovely to hear from you. Thanks for encouragement.

 

[Deirdre]

Hello Elizamanda,
Welcome to the forum. I think you'll find much information here to help in planning your Camino.

Spain has a long and rich Judaic history. Many cities like Toledo, Sevilla and espcecially Córdoba still have a Judería or "jewish quarter". In particular, Córdoba prides itself on having been a place where the Christians, Jews and Muslims all lived together in peace and harmony for centuries. The mingling of cultures is reflected in the art, architecture, history and culture.

To me the spirituality of the Camino transcends organized religion. I walked with people from a wide vairety of faiths (and none at all!) and we shared wonderful conversations - sometimes profoundly spiritual. While I am Catholic, and enjoyed going to Mass on the Camino, I met other Catholics (both practising and lapsed), Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Bhuddists, and many who professed no religion at all. There are many prayer services of an ecumenical nature - blessing of the feet, communal meals, reading of petitions such as at the albergue in Tosantos in which everyone can participate.

It is probable that no one will even ask you about your faith. The camino speaks to all - and each person hears in his own way.

Clearly the iconography of the Camino is overwhelmingly Catholic. The north of Spain did not experience the same influence of the mixture of cultures as the south. I think a modicum of understanding of the art and architecture of the Middle Ages is helpful, but you can get that in a good guide book.

Meanwhile, enjoy planning your Camino'

Buen Camino,

 

[WolverineDG]

Elizamanda, Buen Camino! It's always good to hear from new pilgrims! As for being Jewish, don't worry. Last September I encountered a man from Israel who said he'd met up with about four other Jews along the way. That's more than the number of Americans I encountered.

There is an interesting building in Logrono that has Stars of David on it. I still haven't figured out if that is because it is decorative or because that neighborhood used to be the Jewish neighborhood. It's next to the Cafe Moderno & there is a pensione on the 4th floor that I stayed at.

Kelly

 

[Dale]

I'm sure you will have a great time and find all of the people that you meet along the way most welcoming. I walked for a while this past spring with a young American Jew, Drew, who was on his way back home to Washington state to to start university this fall after having spent several months in Israel studying Hebrew. He made all sorts of friends and seemed to be having the time of his life.

 

[Bridget and Peter]

Thought it would be a great thing to do after my youngest child finishes school.

we ( ian and rosie) are planning our camino for 2010 also when our youngest of 5 finishes school.

sagalout - I should have guessed you have 5 children (like us)- my husband has developed a pretty good wind-up style too.


I don't suppose you need reminding that adult children can still throw surprises at you ... but we returned a week ago from the Chemin. After a couple of days our youngest of 5 (18) said, 'turn the telly off. I've got something to tell you.' I'm sure you can guess the news. Her oldest 2 siblings, parents themselves, were more severe in their response than we were, all chilled out from accepting everything the Camino threw at us! Although I had been thinking we'd get everyone out of their teens before having babies, on the positive side I can now feel relieved that all five are non-smokers!

I like the sound of the walk for many reasons. The feeling of community, with a goal and purpose and everyone working together to move forward. The sense of sharing and meeting new people. Being in the fresh air, enjoying the country-side and experiencing Europe at a slow pace.

This pretty much chimes with our feelings - we are churchgoing christians but not catholics, and for us the religious aspect is more about following in the footsteps of all those pilgrims who went before, with a whole range of intentions and motivations, and discovering more about them as we travel. We are doing the Camino in stages and haven't got near Spain yet. The first stage (last year) was about developing confidence in ourselves and the pilgrimage and being surprised by how good it was for us (pretty holistically, really) both individually and as a couple. This year we have met up with more pilgrims, both historically and in real hungry and snoring flesh, which brought a new dimension.

A week on, after a week at work when I left late 4 out of 5 days, and supporting above mentioned daughter and boyfriend ('You feel sick, have a nasty taste in your mouth and are very, very tired? Fancy that!')we are still feeling positive and somehow more alive!

 

[sillydoll]

Kelly - this one is for you.

 

[WolverineDG]

Yes! That is the building! I have a pic of it from street level & tried to attach it to my post, but it was too big for the forum. The only difference between your pic & mine is the sign for the pensione in an upper story window. I can't recall how much it was per person, but it wasn't much. If you are travelling with one or 2 other people & the albergue is full, you can get a room here. It was clean & the bathroom, while small, was nice.


Kelly

 

[lckgj]

Bridget and Peter

Congratulations on your impending grandparenthood!

I am torn between wanting my kids to have babies whilst I am still young enough to be a super-involved energetic, granny and then wanting them so wait so they can experience all the wonderful things that are so much easier to achieve whilst you are still footloose and fancy free.

Its funny that your older children were so much more disapproving than you were. My own (9 years) elder sister has always been far more judgemental and disapproving of me (and my brothers) than my parents were... we never did anything too wide of the mark and yet we always have felt the shadow my sisters exasperation and disapproval. Families!! hah! Who would have them....

I think the camino can help highlight what is important in life. I know I came home realising I didn't need 95% of all the stuff I had worked to earn the money to buy. (I still havn't learned how to resist the lure of the shops though).

Agree with the smoking thing too - why does ANYONE start smoking these days? Its beyond me...

Laura (grandchildless, but with an attic full of toys in readiness!!!)

 

[Deleted member 397]

2010 gives you plenty of time to plan but 2010 is Holy year which means all routes-but by far the Camino Frances will be extremely busy-probably 50% more than other years. You could think about other routes.

 

[sillydoll]

We mustn't forget that the definitive camino 'bible' - The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago - considered to be the best book written in English on the history, art, architecture, geology, folklore etc, - was written by a Jewish couple.
David Gitlitz and Linda Davidson were specialists in Hispanic studies at the University of Rhode Island when they met on the road on their first pilgrimage to Santiago in 1974. Linda Davidson has written several scholarly works on the pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela with co-author Maryjane Dunn. David Gitlitz is the author of various books on Hispanic and Sephardic culture, including the prize-winning Secrecy and Deceit: The Religion of the Crypto-Jews.
Their first book written together was - A Drizzle of Honey: The Lives and Recipes of Spain's Secret Jews - for which they won the National Jewish Book Award and the award for Distinguished Scholarship form the International Association of Culinary Professionals.

In "The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago" they say that they did not meet one other pilgrim on the camino in 1974. In 1979 they encountered an elderly Frenchman. They led five student treks along the camino, studying the art, architecture, and cultural sites of the pilgrimage road from southern France to Compostela. Their lectures, based on twenty-five years of pilgrimage scholarship and fieldwork, were the starting point for their 'Cultural Handbook'.

For a Jewish pilgrim, this would be a wonderful resource as the authors document the villages and towns that had Jewish quarters. They quote a verse from the only medieval poem written in the Spanish language by a Spanish Jew - rabbi and poet Sem Tob in the 14thC:

The falcon is not worth less
for being born in a lowly nest,
nor are good exempla just
because a Jew says them...

There are many interesting snippets of information in the book.

"The 6 pointed star was a standard decorative motif in medieval Christian and Islamic art that did not become the iconic symbol of Judaism until the 19th c."

 

[beachamorgan]

...I like the sound of the walk for many reasons. The feeling of community, with a goal and purpose and everyone working together to move forward. The sense of sharing and meeting new people. Being in the fresh air, enjoying the country-side and experiencing Europe at a slow pace. Look forward to hearing from you. Best regards Elizamanda.

YES, you have hit the nail on the head. The Celtic people ventured to the End of the Earth before the Christians. The Camino is rooted in spirituality and belief.

Nicole

 

[Sagalouts]

Hi, I've just recently heard of the Camino. Would love to do it in 2010.
hi lisa
how could you not want to do it,if the people on this thread that have moved from judaism thro teenage pregnancy to the celtic spread through europe are an example of the people that you will meet on the camino.
myself i'am counting the days.
ian the yorkshire grumpy old man and rosie the pagan.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Just an FYI: I´m not an expert, but I´m told the "star of David" only became a symbol of Judaism with the rise of Zionism in the 19th Century. Before that it was a common geometric decorative element on buildings and other useful everyday items, albeit with some mystical/kabbalistic connections... sorta like the yin-yang symbol and the swastika were once commonly used in floor-tile designs and rugs before the were co-opted for other, more pointedly idealistic and symbolic purposes.

Sometimes yeah, the building was once a kosher butcher shop, a synagogue, or a mikvah. And other times it was just a building with cool woodwork. I know I am tempting fate in saying this, but I bet you won´t find an original star of David marking out a specifically Jewish building in any of the remaining Spanish Juderias today.

 

[brendan nolan]

Hi Elizamanda and welcome to the Forum
I can't resist adding my twopennethworth here. You clearly are very sensitive the feelings of others in asking if it is ok to do the pilgrimage if you are Jewish. Thank you for your sensitivity, I hope we can all learn from it.
I think the previous messages have indicated the welcome for all pilgrims of any faith or none . I would just like to add, with a big smile, that I don't think that St.James (Santiago) would have regarded himself as a Christian :!: - I don't want to get into an academic debate, but I think he would have identified himself as a Jew - do you feel at home? Without going into the history the separation between 'Christians' and Jews came later and need not keep us apart today.
I hope you enjoy great friendship along the Way.
Buen Camino,
Brendan

 

[elizamanda]

Thank you to Ian and Rosie, Sil, Deirdre, Kelly, Dale, Bridget and Peter, Laura, Omar, Nicole Rebekah and Brendah. You have all contributed so much and given me food for thought. If walking the walk you can meet people like you guys it would be a lovely , enjoyable , stimulating experience.
Thanks so much for taking the time to write. Best regards Elizamanda.

 

[elizamanda]

Ian , I sometimes call Lionel a "grumpy old man " also. Recently I've started saying to him. Remember and appreciate how lucky you are. Appreciate all the good things you have. He turned it into an amusing joke. He spent the weekend walking around saying " I'm so lucky". It was good that he had the sense of humour to take what I had said . I also have to say to him. Is the glass half empty or half full. There are two ways of looking at everything.

 

[Bridget and Peter]

I don't think Ian is 'a grumpy old man' (well, he may well be, but we don't have the evidence here on the forum - perhaps Rosie can tell us). I think he just likes to 'cut the c- - p' to balance out discussions on some subjects.

Peter is a grumpy old man sometimes, and sometimes he is just pretending in order to wind up a wife/daughter/grandchild/old friend/innocent bystander who may not understand.

Ian chose to call himself 'sagalout'. This is why I felt he might tolerate a bit of online teasing himself.

I clearly have too much time on my hands today and should return to de-fluffing odd household corners.

Elizamanda, you set off a wonderful and enjoyable thread - thanks!

 

[elizamanda]

Hi Bridget and Peter, Thanks for your very amusing note. I forgot to say in my last post, congratulations or as we jewish folk say Mazeltov on your impending grandchild. Though must say makes me nervous to disappear for a while. What can happen while I am away ? Though I guess we can't control everything in our childrens lives. That is one of the reasons I would like to go on the Camino. To be able to let go of the children. Give them the space, and myself the space. The reward for all the hard work. Some time out. Happy housework. I love cooking but don't really enjoy cleaning. My family say I'll probably end up cooking for everyone every day on the Camino. Thats actually my idea of fun. I love to cook in large quantities. I love the idea of the big communal cook ups. I wonder how I will fare as a vegetarian. Anyone know if there is much for vegetarians in Spain?
Best regards Elizamanda.

 

[Deirdre]

Hi Elizamanda,
I think there is an entire thread devoted to vegetarianism on the Camino around here somewhere. Pehaps look under "miscellaneous about the Camino". If not, an entire thread could be devoted to it! Just be aware, vegetarianism has a unique meaning in Spain - I don't know where you are from, but it is likely that Spain includes foods that most vegetarians do not! :wink:
Buen Camino,

 

[Dale]

Good Morning Elizamanda :

I'm a Vegetarian too. I do however eat fish which made it much easier. I didn't have any problems at all. Even the smallest bar/restaurant was always willing to accommodate me. If there wasn't any fish on their pilgrims menu they were always willing to substitute an omelet for the meat portion of the meal. If you keep kosher I guess octopus would be off your menu, no fins or scales, I ate it for the first time and now I'm hooked. When doing meals for myself I found that the larger supermarkets have a great selection of tinned vegetables in small tins and of courser the selection of cheese, bread and Spanish pastries are endless and lets not forget the Tinto.

 

[sillydoll]

I am a vegetarian - though not a vegan - which means I don't eat the flesh of dead animals. I don't drink milk or eat eggs on their own either (boiled, fried, poached etc) but I do eat cakes, puddings or tortilla that are made with milk and eggs.
I managed on the camino by eating salads - sin atun (without tuna, which they put in nearly every salad and don't consider to be a fish because it comes out of a tin!).
I took an immersion heater with me and made cup soups with bottled vegetables added: ate too many patatas fritas (chips): bought cheese and tomato to make my own sandwiches, bought yogurt and fruit for breakfast; carried Madelena cakes, biscuits, nuts and fruit to snack on.
At one albergue the hospitalero had made a huge pot of lentil soup with chunks of chorizo floating around in it. When I told her that I was a vegetarian she scooped the sausage out of my bowl and went on serving the others! I couldn't be rude, so I ate it.
You won't starve. There are many little tiendas that sell fruit and vegetables - just don't handle anything, they get quite huffy if you touch the goods!

 

[Sagalouts]

Hi,
This is Rosie - thought it was about time I got involved! Bridget and Peter, you have got Ian off to a tee! He is indeed only a grumpy old man for effect, and to cut the crap (as no doubt he'd put it!), and certainly enjoys winding people up, specially me and the kids, though we are ususally (though no always) wise to his ploys!
But as you note, he can also take it and equally enjoys a bit of teasing aimed at himself. He's just about recovered from me dragging him 'down south' to East Anglia (14 years ago). Despite the lack of hills, we have walked from Sutton Bridge in Lincs to Cromer on the Norfolk coast this year. Next year to Felixstowe, maybe?
We are constantly planning our Camino in 2010 and already have had many pleasant hours of arguement about everything from socks to sleepingbags...
We agree very much with the comment that if you are all representative of the kind of people we will meet on the Camino, it will be well worth every blister!
Thanks to you all (specially Lisa) for such an interesting thread.
Rosie

 

[Dale]

We agree very much with the comment that if you are all representative of the kind of people we will meet on the Camino, it will be well worth every blister!

I think almost everyone will agree with you the best part of the Camino is all of the wonderful and interesting people you will meet along the way, some of whom will become lifelong friends. :mrgreen:

 

[elizamanda]

Hi Everyone, Had not such a great day. Got home from gym at 7am to get a call . My grandmother 97 had taken a fall in the night. She was recently diagnosed with liver cancer and has weakened rapidly. Even so would you believe was not watched enough or made secure in bed and fell attempting to go to the toilet(in nursing home). Would you believe no ambulance was called till I got there even though accident was at 1 am. Then casualty had not finished x-rays till about 2pm. I left at about 2.45 and results were still not in. Great news no hip or pelvis fractures , though they are doing more scans, just a little fracture of finger, needing splint. She has great spirit. While she was waiting for x-rays she said, "did I give my permission to be here" " Can I refuse and go home now" " Even in her discomfort she was thanking me for being there and apologizing for being any trouble A true lady through and through and a wonderful sense of humour.
I am lacto ovo, happily eat eggs, cheese ,yoghurt. Sill I don't know if I could handle the soup with chorizio pulled out. But well done. You were very kind. I am fine with lots of salad, can usually find something in most restaurants. But was concerned at offending people at communal dinners.
Hope all are well . Best regards Elizamanda.

 

[elizamanda]

My husband would like to know what is the fastest known time for the Camino? He doesn't want to do it tried to tell me he could walk 100 kilometres a day. He is very hyperactive and said after resting in the middle of the day he would be bored and would want to walk again for a few hours at the end of the day. I really was not sure if he was pulling my leg. How far is a reasonable distance per day? I was thinking 25 - 30 k's !! Thanks, look forward to hearing.

 

[Deleted member 397]

I don't know what the record would be for a camino but 100kms a day is.....dreaming I would say! I walk a reasonable 1km in 10 minutes so at that rate I'd be walking something like, well all day!
I sympathise with hanging around in the afternoon. Many will disagree but it seems ridiculous to me what many many people did on the camino frances-get up in the dark and stop at around 12 or even earlier-many times I saw 20-30 backpacks lined up out side the albergues-what's the point? See the sunrise?-people were doing it on overcast-even rainy mornings. The other often quoted reason was to avoid the heat-many were doing this this year when the weather was aweful and sometimes barely reached in the mid teens. Surely if people find 20 degrees too hot should they be on the camino at any other time except mid winter?
I preferred to wait for the hordes to dissipate from the albergues,have a coffe,see where I'm going and usually walked 30-35 kms per day and arrived around 4pm. Incidentally quite a few albergues don't open until late afternoon-even 4pm (such as zamora) so lolling around aoutside the alberge for 3-4 hours seems a bit inane.
Now I'll duck

 

[sillydoll]

I posted a link to an article in March about a guy who ran the camino - between 50 and 80km per day.

miscellaneous-topics/topic4089.html

I used to be a race walker - not a very fast one! - my fastest times for a half marathon (21.1km) being 2hr37 (7.5 mins per km) and 5h36 for a marathon (about 8mins per km).
In 2002 a couple of friends and I walked the camino frances from Roncesvalles to Santiago in 27 days - about 28km per day. In reality this was 40km one day and 20km another. It all depended on the terrain. We thought that 30 - 40km per day would be a doddle, but it really wasn't. You have to be a cross country race-walker with a backpack to keep up a 40km per day on muddy, stony, river-bed boulders, gravel pits, rock filled torrent course down hillsides.

Tell your husband that this is not a hiking trip: its not a cross country race: its not an endurance challenge. Try to treat it as a meditative meander across a beautiful country with lots of opportunities to stop and stare, to have a siesta in a meadow, and to do some sightseeing along the way.

 

[elizamanda]

Agree with you also Sil, That is why the walk is not for him and he probably won't do it. He is too competitive and hasn't worked out yet that life is about the journey and definatly the Camino seems like this. That is the impression I get from reading what people write.

 

[jl]

Sil, it is great to know that there is another race walker on the camino from time to time. My first Camino I trained by (normal) walking round the block - somedays! I ended up with tendonitis on that trip. The second Camino (400kms further) I trained by race walking round the block (5kms with 2 hills) except for the steepest part of the hills on had nothing wrong with me! I am quite convinced that it is the constant stretching of the shins and calves that race walkers do just by the action that contributed to that.

To Elizamanda and her husband - last time there were many days when I walked 30 to 35kms and felt very comfortable. There were even 5 days when crossing the Meseta when I walked 40 - 45 kms. There were days when I finished at 2.00 or earlier and there were days when I walked into the village at 8.00. It was always my choice and I could have stopped at anytime. Sometimes I got in very late - not because I had a long way to go, but because I had stopped to natter to some friends, admire the view, sing in a church, touch base (via email) with home and so on - even have a doze on the grass. The beauty of the Camino is that you walk it how YOU want, although I always add the proviso - so long as it doesn't disturb anyone else (eg rustling plastic bags beofre dawn etc)

Enjoy your planning. I know that with my own planning, the more I do before I go, the more I understand my surroundings and therefore the more I enjoy myself. Cheers Janet

 

[elizamanda]

Thanks Janet, I think my husband might do one week with me if he can stay in small hotels. While he is with I'd probably walk longer each day. Then he might go off for a golfing holiday and I can do the rest at a slower pace. Something like that. I get very stiff in my hamstrings. Not sure if I would get stiffer each day or gradually loosen up.Definatly need to practice longer walks. Thanks.

 

[sillydoll]

Lisa, perhaps he can join you at the end? By then you will be super fit and could do longer distances with him. He might like to walk into Santiago with you and earn a Compostela too. The last 100km of the Camino Frances is very scenic with rolling hills, subsistence farms, dry stone walls and Eucalyptus Forests. My husband joined me in Sarria last year and we did a slow walk to Santiago from there, then hired a car and took a week across the camino back to Pamplona for our flight home. Even spent a night in Roncesvalles so that he could experience the pilgrims' mass.

 

[elizamanda]

Good Idea Sil, I was thinking he could do first week and maybe help me over the mountain, but maybe he would want to walk too fast. Maybe nice to meet at last part. And stay in comfy places at end. Have great day.

 

[Sagalouts]

i would never disagree with sil on camino matters, my daughter has a t-shirt with the logo" **** google ask me",which thankfully she does not wear in public,i have a mental image of sil wearing a similar shirt minus the profanity.
but if i was walking up to 2 months doing my own thing,meeting new people looking at things anew,having someone drop in for a week wherever that may be and dictating how that week is spent.no don't think so,it's not going to happen.
now if that person was there for my training walks and supportive in other ways then ok fair enough.
me and our rosie have been walking together now for nearly a year and its taken nearly that long and much heated discusion to find our rhythm and a realization that maybe just maybe its possible for us to do the camino together without too much blood being spilled.
i know what the reaction would be if i told her that i would "drop in" on her camino on my way to playing golf, ( it includes more profanity)
i have to say lisa that rosie's reaction to your husbands boast of doing 100k in one day,was to drop him 100k from home and tell him dinner was on the table at 7 and in the bin by 7-30.
ian and rosie

 

[Rose Louise]

Ian

You talk about taking a year to find your rhythm. We found it better to walk at our own pace.
Me up front and him behind. It worked well on our Portugues Camino. We would walk together for a bit and then I would move on. Whenever I got to a bend I just checked to see my partner was OK and went on. He suffered badly from blisters and that put him behind further. It worked OK for us and we found that we paired up with others from time to time = an added bonus. Cheers

Rose Louise

 

[sillydoll]

Ian - thanks for the laugh on a grey, cloudy day: its not always sunny in Sunny South Africa.

My husband is not a long distance walker - ex first division cricketer, rugby, tennis and squash player, short-back-and-sides, beer drinking rugby fanatic - but not walker.
I Had twice walked to Santiago, joined the local CSJ in 2002, have had the St James feast days at our home since 2003. He is always a part of the day but had never walked a camino so never felt a part of it. Last year I persuaded him to join us for the last 100km and have a scenic drive across the camino back to Pamplona afterward.
Because he is a competitive person, I suggested that I always walk behind him. He set the pace and before we knew it he was chalking off pilgrims-passed! When he told us with a triumphant smirk that he had passed 26 pilgrims the first day - and wanted to celebrate with a beer - we had to point out that some of them had been sitting on the side of the road eating and some had stropped to take photographs. His response was, "That's their problem - I passed them!" :lol:
I didn't mind having him join us for the last 100km. To be honest, I don't think any of the 'new' albergues in Galicia have any charm, the paths are pretty but the crowds kind of take away that spiritual feeling you have when in the Irago mountains or on the Mesteta and I really wanted him to feel a sense of having acheived his own camino. It was great walking into Santiago with him and attending the pilgrims' mass. We even had time for a cafe with Ivar.

 

[Bridget and Peter]

Interesting how couples do the Camino.

For us a big part of doing the pilgrimage has been about doing it together. (and away from the young with their rude tee-shirts - I have been known to stuff one under the sofa when I considered it the sentiment to be too profane to be seen - I thought that was somehow ok whereas actually putting it in the bin would have been taking too oppressive a parental stance!!)

We found that there was a bit of friction sometimes - why do I get to be the one who has to do all the route planning and map-reading and then he can just suddenly stick his oar in about there being no time for me to look in yet another possibly delightful village church? - but in the long run we got to value each other's strengths and accept our own weaknesses, and discover that together we two are more than the sum of one plus one. This is something we rely on in everyday life too, because we both have our 'frailties' and often when one of us is wobbly the other has to be strong!

For us its been a joint discovery, as it seems to be for Rosie and Ian, but I can see that for others its been an individual adventure. Interestingly,on the voie de Vezelay, we met mostly French middle aged male pilgrims who were serial pilgrims, having already travelled spanish routes and now travelling lesser known paths. They mentioned wives at home who did not like walking, or had had a foot operation. It seemed a bit sad to us, but that was from our point of view.

Sometimes the friction could be solved by a visit to a patisserie and judicious use of euros on chocolatey gooey stuff. Blood sugar levels have to be very carefully maintained when there are hills to be climbed!

 

[elizamanda]

Dear Ian, Sil , Rose Louiseand Bridget, Oh , you made me laugh especially Ian. I just cracked up and I'm in a internet cafe in Noosa QLD { up for confernce} then realised how loud I was laughing in public and had to correct myself. Yes I see your point Ian and glad to hear Sil that someone else has a competitive husband. A TYPE personality. Yes Bridget I agree it is great to work together in an ideal world. And I'm sure we do in many ways. But we have to work with the different personalities pluses and minuses. When I say why didn't I marry a placid sit on the couch man, my friends say because I would have been bored to tears. Probably true.
On a sad note my grandmother fractured her pelvis. She is in a lot of pain and I was torn as to whether to come away. But it was booked and Lionel needed a holiday so I'm here. But maybe I was punished for leaving her. I was so troubled after leaving her that I missed the plane. Took too long sitting in the car at the airport talking to her carer and then to my kids. Then had to pay for another ticket to another city. Then the plane was diverted further South. Then didn't get on first 2 buses and waited half hour , then got on bus. Then met Lionel in Brisbane , {he was also not in Noosa as his plane from Hobart had been cancelled, he waited for me for 2 hours} then we drove to Noosa. Very eventful day ; arrived at 1 am instead of 7 pm.
We were going to have a day of sun before conference statrs and it has poured all day. But have had relaxing day alternating walking eating and sleeping. Anyway must dash, Lionel has lost patience with me on internet and has gone walkabout. Must go find him. Best regards.

 

[elizamanda]

Very Sad.

Hi Fellow Forum Members,
It is very sad. My grandmother has been going down hill all week. She is in pain,has stopped eating and also in the last day ceased taking fluid. Morphine is now being given and there is not much time left. She is 97 , but it is so, so sad. Best regards. Lisa.

 

[sillydoll]

Lisa, I am so sorry to hear that she is in pain. I'm sure she knows that you are all with her at this time.
Hugs,

 

[elizamanda]

Thanks so much Sill, off to bed now. Love Lisa.

 

[jl]

So sorry to hear about your Grandmother Lisa. This is always such a sad time especially when it is someone who you have been close to, as is obvious that you have with your Grandmother. By the sounds of it you have many happy memories of her which you will be able to cherish and will nurture you during this time, as she has no doubt has nurtured you over the years. You abviously share a great love for each other. So good to have a chat with you the other night. Take care and look after yourself, Janet

 

[elizamanda]

Thanks so much Janet. Have seen her many times today. It is so so hard. So sad. So hard to let go. Her breathing has been difficult all day. She looks so different. Its awful. Complicated by very difficult family situation. AlL the best and thank you. Lisa.

 

[elizamanda]

Nanna has passed away.

Dear All, Thanks for your support. Nanna passed away late this afternoon. I was with her so much this week, but sadly was not with her when she took her last breath. It is strange, I decided I needed a walk and walked to the bookshop with my husband. I wanted to buy a Camino book, I felt I needed some distraction. I always have my phone with me and this time forgot it. When I got back the missed calls were there. It is strange, I wonder if this is an omen that I should do the Camino or that I shouldn't because I was out when I should have been by my nanna. It is so sad , but also ok. I am coming to terms with it and feel sort of dazed. All the best Lisa.

 

[WolverineDG]

That feeling you had to go to the bookstore & get a book was your Nanna telling you to go do your Camino & stop worrying about her. And forgetting your phone? That was her idea too. She's in a better place now. And please don't beat yourself up about not being there when she passed. Your Nanna knows that you love her & she will now be with you when you do your Camino.

My sympathies to you & your family. It is hard to lose someone so close, even when they have been so ill.

Kelly

 

[Bridget and Peter]

Dear Lisa

I am so sorry to hear that your grandmother has died - it's been a gruelling time for you, and for your family. And for your grandmother, whose struggle is now over.

I don't think that you should read messages about the Camino into the fact that she breathed her last while you were out buying books. I have heard of many times like this when the actual moment of death has come when loving relatives have left the room - maybe it makes it easier for the dying person to let go of this world. She will have had a sense of your caring presence and love all through these last few days, but the specifics of when and who at each precise moment will have been much less important.

My prayers are with you and your family as you plan how to celebrate her life and all she has meant to you, and manage your difficult family situation.

There is an image of bereavement which may be helpful to you. If not, then ignore it.
Bereavement is like a waterfall when the river of your life tumbles over a steep cliff and crashes into a deep pool, where the water churns around quite powerfully. At the edge of the pool there are places where the water can wash up on a beach at times, or under an overhanging tree in the shade, but for a while it will be unstable, sometimes caught up again in the eddying pool or over rocks. Eventually, however, the river finds its way out of the pool and goes on it's way down the river valley, at a different level now, after the waterfall, but still the same river.

The Camino may well have a part to play in your journey of grief - but don't worry about it now - you will know when the time is right.

God bless you
with love
Bridget