"I" completed my second camino de Santiago in year 1483

[Deise]

James Rice - 15th century Waterford Pilgrim made the Santiago de Compostela pilgrimage in 1473 and again in 1483.

Its likely if he had not been in high office at the time of his pilgrimages they would have gone unrecorded.

James Rice served as Mayor of Waterford at a time when the holder of the office was the King's representative and was personally responsible for everything that happened during his term of office. The quality of his rule was such that he got the King's permission to go on pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostella on two occasions ten years apart. This allowed him to leave the administration of the City to deputies during his absence.

Prior to departure on this second pilgrimage James Rice added a chantry chapel to the old Cathedral. He commissioned his own tomb at that time.

Rice meant his tomb to be a reminder to all that fame, fortune and power are very fleeting things. He died in 1488.

The inscription is in Latin, part of it reads
"Whoever you may be, passerby
Stop weep and read.
I am what you are going to be be;
and I was what you are ."

His tomb became the starting point for Waterford pilgrims as they embarked on their journey to Santiago de Compostella.


For further information and photos of his tomb see blogofdeise.blogspot.ie

 

[Seabird]

The inscription is in Latin, part of it reads " I am what you will be; I was what you are now."

Wow, I want that inscription on my tomb. Like a message from the beyond. Really interesting post, thanks.

 

[Ekelund]

Thank you for sharing, very interesting! I like the inscription on his tomb! It seems to me there is a similar inscription at the entry to one of the many cemeteries on the Camino but I do not remember which town it is.

 

[nellpilgrim]

It's a common inscription on tombs and other church furniture or architecture. There's a happy little skull above the West door of the old church in Crumlin with the same inscription below it-this served as a pretty powerful 'memento moro' to the congregation entering church!

 

[annakappa]

Thank you for sharing, very interesting! I like the inscription on his tomb! It seems to me there is a similar inscription at the entry to one of the many cemeteries on the Camino but I do not remember which town it is.

I think it might be one the entrance of the cementary just outside Torres del Rio.

 

[KinkyOne]

I think it might be one the entrance of the cementary just outside Torres del Rio.

I too remember the same inscription above the cementary gate/arch shortly after Torres del Rio on CF (righthand side). It was the first time when I saw this kind of inscription and it follows me in my mind since
So very simple, so very true, so ... everything...

 

[zzotte]

Very nice It sure beats RIP crap

 

[VNwalking]

A good reflection...it cuts the unnecessary clutter, doesn't it? And as nellpilgrim has said, a common contemplation once--and still, in the Buddhist tradition. Without plagues and such we tend to forget it (though the post-modern 'new normal' may now begin to wake us up a bit...but that's waaay off subject).
These from the church wall in Castrojerez and the wayside cross at Eirexe:

 

[MichaelB10398]

I remember walking past a cemetery in southern France where I saw this massive tombstone. It was easily 20' high - a sculpture of a skeleton sitting on a chair with the same saying. It is quite common as has been said. You can imagine the impact on humans of 600 years ago. A rather jarring reminder of the brief nature of this mortal existence.

It clashes harshly with the more common eat, drink, and be marry so common today, but I digress.

 

[amorfati1]

I remember walking past a cemetery in southern France where I saw this massive tombstone. It was easily 20' high - a sculpture of a skeleton sitting on a chair with the same saying. It is quite common as has been said. You can imagine the impact on humans of 600 years ago. A rather jarring reminder of the brief nature of this mortal existence.

It clashes harshly with the more common eat, drink, and be marry so common today, but I digress.

Michael, it's a timely reminder, me thinks ...Thank you!
and... speaking of skeletons (and not to hi-jack the thread) - reading your comment I recalled two of my oil paintings (both early 2009. shown below - work in progress) - when completed and hung on walls - I got rather strong responses - of displeasure. Most viewers were disturbed - they did not want to be reminded of death & mortality. And found it peculiar that I would choose just such a subject. I am neither morose nor gloomy - Death is part of life, just as birth is. Life continues beyond those opposites. I am indeed a bit at a loss in regards to the denial of the inevitable. Why is death so 'unspoken', so taboo?
It's around the corner for all of us. We just don't know when and around what corner. But we continue as if it would not occur. or not happen to us. That puzzles me ...

And thank you Deise for those images and the quotes. Much appreciated.

 

[mspath]

"But at my back I always hear
Time's wingèd chariot hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Deserts of vast eternity...."
Andrew Marvell, To his Coy Mistress, mid 17th c

 

[VNwalking]

Most viewers were disturbed - they did not want to be reminded of death & mortality.

amorfati, these are wonderful, thank you for posting them here. Death is the simple truth after all. But we live surrounded by a culture that denies that at all cost, and many people do not like to be reminded of such things.
And it's not only a thing in the US. I was visiting a friend in Winterthur this summer and she told me of an exhibit sponsored by a local protestant church--of images related to death, some very old. Apparently there were people who resigned from the church as a result, saying that this sort of thing was not appropriate.

Hmmm...it's sad. They won't be able to resign from death, will they?
I'd rather live fully, and fully knowing the way things are, thanks.

 

[Aidan21]

Death as amorfati mentioned above is a part of life and is a part of our lives. If we as individuals can make peace with the fact that we are going to die, then we are more able to enjoy this life. After all what else in life is there to be fearful of if you can make peace with the ultimate fear. Not everyone is in the comfortable position of being at ease with death so perhaps that may be something we can ponder on the road to Santiago (or at any time).

 

[Tincatinker]

My grand-mothers paraphrase of one of those Victorian charitable memes was "The Dead are always with us." Needless to say this scared the living shite out of me as a child. Now I find the same comfort in it as I presume she did. Not "gone" but always with me.

 

[Annette london]

Death as amorfati mentioned above is a part of life and is a part of our lives. If we as individuals can make peace with the fact that we are going to die, then we are more able to enjoy this life. After all what else in life is there to be fearful of if you can make peace with the ultimate fear. Not everyone is in the comfortable position of being at ease with death so perhaps that may be something we can ponder on the road to Santiago (or at any time).

Yes death is part of living so to speak but some cultures are more attuned to the idea of death more than others. Growing up in Ireland we were more receptive to the fact that death was inevitable. I was only14 when I laid out my first dead person and it didn't frighten me at all at the time.i think it would have frightened my children at that age because " the times they are a changing" as the song goes. For 40 years I have nursed the terminally ill and everyone approaches death in different ways. Some families do not want the ill person to know their prognosis but I can assure you that person ALWAYS knows that they are are terminal.This work has made me appreciate life more even though it was heartrenchin at times. Most young people now do not want to think about death too much and why should they--- it will come soon enough!! As we get older we begin to think more of our own mortality and perhaps become more accepting of the inevitable but it is still a frightening prospect for many people and I can understand that.we live in an age where we can put off the wrinkles for many years (I wish)! and cryogenics is on the rise but I think this is mainly due to fear of the inevitable. As my lovely old dad used to say "you are dead for a long time" and my favourite " there are no pockets in a shroud"!! best wishes and keep walking! Annette

 

[AlwynWellington]

James Rice - 15th century Waterford Pilgrim made the Santiago de Compostela pilgrimage in 1473 and again in 1483.

Deise, thank you for this post and your blog on Rice. There I noted you wrote As Waterford was a port town with trade links with France and Spain it is likely James travelled by boat to the port of Corunna and then headed on foot to Santiago.

So, should the route from Ferrol/Corunna be renamed the Irish, or at least British (including Welsh and Scots as well as Irish and English) Camino?

 

[Annette london]

Deise, thank you for this post and your blog on Rice. There I noted you wrote As Waterford was a port town with trade links with France and Spain it is likely James travelled by boat to the port of Corunna and then headed on foot to Santiago.

So, should the route from Ferrol/Corunna be renamed the Irish, or at least British (including Welsh and Scots as well as Irish and English) Camino?

If it's British it would be English, Welsh, and scots only!! So Irish could do it. Only saying. Now I am confused! Let's keep it as it is or I might get lost on it and walk backwards!! Best wishes Annette

 

[Deise]

Deise, thank you for this post and your blog on Rice. There I noted you wrote As Waterford was a port town with trade links with France and Spain it is likely James travelled by boat to the port of Corunna and then headed on foot to Santiago.

So, should the route from Ferrol/Corunna be renamed the Irish, or at least British (including Welsh and Scots as well as Irish and English) Camino?

just as a matter of interest in 2008 a newly built three-mast replica sailing ship made the journey from Waterford to Spain with 29 pilgrims on board.
Ship is called jeannie johnson

 

[amorfati1]

amorfati, these are wonderful, thank you for posting them here. Death is the simple truth after all. But we live surrounded by a culture that denies that at all cost, and many people do not like to be reminded of such things.
And it's not only a thing in the US. I was visiting a friend in Winterthur this summer and she told me of an exhibit sponsored by a local protestant church--of images related to death, some very old. Apparently there were people who resigned from the church as a result, saying that this sort of thing was not appropriate.

Hmmm...it's sad. They won't be able to resign from death, will they?
I'd rather live fully, and fully knowing the way things are, thanks.

dear Viranani - you are very welcome!! Pleased to know you appreciate them...
and thank you for sharing this Winterthur vignette - which surprised me. I found - in europe - most people being a bit more matter-of-fact regarding death and mortality. (graveyards/cemeteries right in the middle of villages/towns - churches/museum showing paintings of skeletons/death and the theme of 'Totentanz" (dance macabre / dance of death) people of all ages mix and mingle ... etc etc

and right - we won't be able to resign from death. nor hopefully resign from life - but live fully with the gifts we have been given ....and entrusted with.
best wishes
C

 

[Kanga]

I don't rage against the dying of the light, just the twilight that precedes it. So far it is not working.

Love the discourse into a bit of real pilgrimage history. And what a beautiful ship.

 

[AlwynWellington]

Ship is called jeannie johnson

Deise, thanks again. Have you been on board Jeannie Johnson? I guess sleeping space would be quite confining.

If it's British it would be English, Welsh, and scots only!!

Annette, I am sure you are right. From a distance of 20,000 km the distance across the Irish Sea and the differentiation that follows can be hard to discern at times. I was working from a now long distant childhood recollection of the phrase British Isles. And also conscious of the cross fertilisation of the missionary priests (or whatever) between Ireland and Scotland in particular about the time the Romans in those parts were becoming less obvious.

 

[VNwalking]

this Winterthur vignette...surprised me. I found - in europe - most people being a bit more matter-of-fact regarding death and mortality. (graveyards/cemeteries right in the middle of villages/towns - churches/museum showing paintings of skeletons/death and the theme of 'Totentanz"

Greetings and thanks, Amorfati! Yes, it surprised both me and my friend as well. And to be clear, we were told that just a few people protested--the vast majority appreciated the exhibit. The Tottentanz images were indeed stunning--she had emailed photos of them to me when the exhibit was happening. Here are two of them:

I was working from a now long distant childhood recollection of the phrase British Isles. And also conscious of the cross fertilisation of the missionary priests (or whatever) between Ireland and Scotland in particular about the time the Romans.

Irish, Scots, Scots-Irish, Welsh, English, British......In space there are no lines on the map--and in the end death doesn't care about such names.
I have to say that all the Pilgrims I have met from Ireland have been wonderful company--and I can well imagine the scene in Waterford as a whole group embarked for the journey to Gallicia--and the tumultuous welcome home they'd have received on the other end of the journey. Very interesting that James Rice did this journey twice--it made me wonder if people then also got bitten by the 'camino bug'? I had always assumed such a voyage would have been a once-in-a-lifetime feat.

 

[Arminius]

My grand-mothers paraphrase of one of those Victorian charitable memes was "The Dead are always with us." Needless to say this scared the living shite out of me as a child. Now I find the same comfort in it as I presume she did. Not "gone" but always with me.

Quote Epicurus: "Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist."

 

[NualaOC]

Deise, thanks again. Have you been on board Jeannie Johnson? I guess sleeping space would be quite confining.

Alwyn/Déise: a bit off topic, but my cousin Don was a crew member when the Jeannie Johnston crossed the Atlantic in 2003. He wrote about it here. I think he'd agree that the sleeping space was quite confining! The ship is now in Dublin Port - more details here.

 

[Deise]

Viranani [/QUOTE]Very interesting that James Rice did this journey twice--it made me wonder if people then also got bitten by the 'camino bug'? I had always assumed such a voyage would have been a once-in-a-lifetime feat.[/QUOTE]

Cost would been a factor - to give some idea of the expense of such a journey, Irish pilgrims making the return journey from Spain to Ireland on-board the ill-fated ship the La Mary London in the 15th century paid seven shillings and six pence per head just for the return leg of the journey (1400 miles sea voyage). This was the equivalent of several weeks wages for an average working man.
The 1473 account concerns Irish pilgrims traveling on ship called the La Mary London. The pilgrims appear to have been on their return journey from pilgrimage to Santiago when their boat was captured by pirates. It is not known exactly how the events unfolded but the pilgrims were later released in the port of Youghal, Co. Cork, although the ship had originally been destined to dock at Waterford. It is likely that the pilgrims were ransomed by the pirates. They had a lucky escape as they could have easily been, murdered or sold as slaves like the villagers of Baltimore in 1603 (Stalley, R. 1988)

I hoped that forum members might have some other local historical information.

 

[Annette london]

just as a matter of interest in 2008 a newly built three-mast replica sailing ship made the journey from Waterford to Spain with 29 pilgrims on board.
Ship is called jeannie johnson

What a fabulous ship.i bet that that there was a lot of craic on board both in 2008 and in the 15th century! Now for our far flung friends many miles away this is the translation of craic!! It's an Irish word for fun and enjoyment that has been brought into the English language eg "what's the craic" (what's the news) and"where's the craic"(where's the party?) .this was a lovely piece of history and even better for me as I will be making a flying visit to Waterford next month and might saunter down to the harbour to see where James rice sailed from. And yes Varinani, i defenitely think he had caught the Camino bug! Problem is

 

[Annette london]

Greetings and thanks, Amorfati! Yes, it surprised both me and my friend as well. And to be clear, we were told that just a few people protested--the vast majority appreciated the exhibit. The Tottentanz images were indeed stunning--she had emailed photos of them to me when the exhibit was happening. Here are two of them:
View attachment 22498 View attachment 22499

Irish, Scots, Scots-Irish, Welsh, English, British......In space there are no lines on the map--and in the end death doesn't care about such names.
I have to say that all the Pilgrims I have met from Ireland have been wonderful company--and I can well imagine the scene in Waterford as a whole group embarked for the journey to Gallicia--and the tumultuous welcome home they'd have received on the other end of the journey. Very interesting that James Rice did this journey twice--it made me wonder if people then also got bitten by the 'camino bug'? I had always assumed such a voyage would have been a once-in-a-lifetime feat.

Don't know where some of the post went! Problem is that he infected the rest of us down through the years!! I wonder if any of those that sailed from Waterford stayed in Galecia as their music and art is so Celtic? When we first got to Galecia 10 years ago I thought they were playing Irish music. I was informed however in no uncertain terms that it was GALECIAN music!!! So a few first cousins perhaps there! Best wishes Annette

 

[AlwynWellington]

Working with death.

As you might guess from my pic, while born here, my ancestors come from Caithness, Mid Lothian (Edinburgh), Devon and Kent (all to the east of the Irish Sea). And along with others from Holland,Hungary, India, Ireland, Poland etc collectively make up one half of the bi-cultural mix of Aotearoa-New Zealand. Short name Pakeha.

The other half of the bicultural equation here are the Maori people.

With that background, now back on topic.

Recently I attended the funeral of my daughter's mother-in-law: she was Pakeha and her husband was Maori. All their children (and their children) had been raised with some understanding of Maori protocols. So, amongst other aspects, it was grand to see the grand-children gathering around the open coffin, doing their party pieces to honour their nana, and otherwise carrying on in a normal way in the presence of death.


The practices/norms of 1793 are of their day. It was not uncommon in England, at least, for the monument above a grave inside a church to have two levels. The lower level showed an effigy of the carcase of the deceased, with ribs showing and sometimes worms making their where they might. The upper level showed the deceased as he (usually) might have been seen in life.

 

[David]

No one really dies - our bodies die, is all. How true it is though, that in modern first world cultures death is hidden away as much as possible and everyone lives as if they are not going to die ...

This is 15th century of course, as it is from Thomas (A Kempis) - but is still as true today

"Ah, foolish man, why do you plan to live long when you are not sure of living even a day? How many have been deceived and suddenly snatched away! How often have you heard of persons being killed by drownings, by fatal falls from high places, of persons dying at meals, at play, in fires, by the sword, in pestilence, or at the hands of robbers! Death is the end of everyone and the life of man quickly passes away like a shadow. .... .... .... .... Keep yourself as a stranger here on earth, a pilgrim whom its affairs do not concern at all. Keep your heart free and raise it up to your God, for you have not here a lasting home."

 

[Kanga]

This is getting off-topic and away from the original post which was camino related. Discussing death is one thing, but please do not stray into personal belief and a discussion of religion.

 

[Deise]

This is getting off-topic and away from the original post which was camino related. Discussing death is one thing, but please do not stray into personal belief and a discussion of religion.

Not meant to be divisive Kanga - that would go against a long tradition of tolerance in Waterford.
In fact this is the only European city where the Cathedral of both Catholic and Protestant denominations were designed by same man ( John Roberts).
That was back in 1773 and with the Irish tradition that is unique and special.

 

[michael]

If you go to mass on Ash Wednesday you get a reminder - 'remember man that thou art dust' and marked with the sign of the cross.
Happens every year.

 

[amorfati1]

No one really dies - our bodies die, is all. How true it is though, that in modern first world cultures death is hidden away as much as possible and everyone lives as if they are not going to die ...

This is 15th century of course, as it is from Thomas (A Kempis) - but is still as true today

"Ah, foolish man, why do you plan to live long when you are not sure of living even a day? How many have been deceived and suddenly snatched away! How often have you heard of persons being killed by drownings, by fatal falls from high places, of persons dying at meals, at play, in fires, by the sword, in pestilence, or at the hands of robbers! Death is the end of everyone and the life of man quickly passes away like a shadow. .... .... .... .... Keep yourself as a stranger here on earth, a pilgrim whom its affairs do not concern at all. Keep your heart free and raise it up to your God, for you have not here a lasting home."

spot on! thanks much for sharing this - is copied now into my li'l stash of quoatable wisdom! appreciated indeed.
Love it!

 

[David]

spot on! thanks much for sharing this - is copied now into my li'l stash of quoatable wisdom! appreciated indeed.
Love it!

Is from The Imitation of Christ, Thomas A Kempis - I always carry a copy with me. Pope John Paul had a copy on his bed when he died. You can get them really cheap on Ebay. I prefer the earlier translations, between beginning of the 1900's and 1940, mine is from the Bishop Challoner text - the older translations seem to resonate more to me, but there are perfectly good - if not brilliant - modern translations (he wrote in Latin).

I think is pertinent to the original post as it is contemporary to that period and not religious opinion as I am quoting someone else from 500 years ago -
- so, in the first chapter (bit of a slap in the face for me as I am so analytical! ) - this was common thinking in that period and it is still so today to those not entranced into the Vanity Fair that surrounds us, don't you think?

"What doth it profit thee to enter into deep discussion
concerning the Holy Trinity, if thou lack humility, and be thus
displeasing to the Trinity? For verily it is not deep words that
make a man holy and upright; it is a good life which maketh a man
dear to God. I had rather feel contrition than be skilful in the
definition thereof. If thou knewest the whole Bible, and the
sayings of all the philosophers, what should all this profit thee
without the love and grace of God? Vanity of vanities, all is
vanity, save to love God, and Him only to serve. That is the
highest wisdom, to cast the world behind us, and to reach forward
to the heavenly kingdom.
It is vanity then to seek after, and to trust in, the riches
that shall perish. It is vanity, too, to covet honours, and to
lift up ourselves on high. It is vanity to follow the desires of
the flesh and be led by them, for this shall bring misery at the
last. It is vanity to desire a long life, and to have little
care for a good life. It is vanity to take thought only for the
life which now is, and not to look forward to the things which
shall be hereafter. It is vanity to love that which quickly
passeth away, and not to hasten where eternal joy abideth."

So many pilgrims of the period that this post is about must have carried their copy of The Imitation, (well, those who could read Latin that is).

 

[C clearly]

"But at my back I always hear
Time's wingèd chariot hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Deserts of vast eternity...."
Andrew Marvell, To his Coy Mistress, mid 17th c

The second two lines are on my father's gravestone. (There wasn't room for all 4 lines.)

 

[alansykes]

Rice meant his tomb to be a reminder to all that fame, fortune and power are very fleeting things.

The inscription is in Latin, part of it reads
"Whoever you may be, passerby
Stop weep and read.
I am what you are going to be be;
and I was what you are ."

His tomb became the starting point for Waterford pilgrims as they embarked on their journey to Santiago de Compostella.

The Latin original is often attributed to Horace, even though it doesn't appear in any of his surviving works. But the spirit is similar to his famous
seu plures hiemes, seu tribuit Iuppiter ultimam, ...

... vina liques, et spatio brevi
spem longam reseces. Dum loquimur, fugerit invida
aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.

Hope I've got plenty of winters left to go on camino, but, if not, my son has been asked to put the words of Rice's compatriot Yeats on my tombstone:

Cast a cold eye
on life, on death.
Horseman pass by.

 

[Deise]

The Latin original is often attributed to Horace, even though it doesn't appear in any of his surviving works. But the spirit is similar to his famous
seu plures hiemes, seu tribuit Iuppiter ultimam, ...

... vina liques, et spatio brevi
spem longam reseces. Dum loquimur, fugerit invida
aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.

Hope I've got plenty of winters left to go on camino, but, if not, my son has been asked to put the words of Rice's compatriot Yeats on my tombstone:

Cast a cold eye
on life, on death.
Horseman pass by.

I am only now discovering the work of W B Yeats - i think i am late to everything. Recently i came across his notion of a "pilgrim soul " .
From " when you are old "

How many loved your moments of glad grace,
And loved your beauty with love false or true,
But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you,
And loved the sorrows of your changing face;