MichaelB10398
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Suffice it to say I haven't yet stopped walking
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Planning is in progress...mad galway man said:...it calls me back...
Annie Little said:Of course your reply based on your judgement... interesting
David said:Annie Little said:Of course your reply based on your judgement... interesting
I think that was her point - Pieces was doing irony (pretty good too, that subtlety in a second language) :wink:
Lydia Gillen said:I think that 5 or 7 years ago they would all have been talking to each other.
Hi Lydia, I think this is a social phenomenon that's not specific to the Camino. Sadly. And why is that when you're talking to someone and their mobile phone goes, they immediately break off the conversation with you to answer the call? Is the call more important? I think what Jabbapapa says in the previous or following post is right - there have always been ways for people to have their attention diverted - but phones and tablets are certainly gobbling up a lot of "eyeballs!"Lydia Gillen said:In a hotel in Santiago earlier this month I observed about 12 pilgrims sitting around and each intent on their own little screen. Nobody was talking to anybody present.
That's why we love you Pieces...Pieces said:yes I judge, as do you, and I am judged...
difference is, apparently, that I don't give a flying f*** how strangers judge me as that is all on them...
tyrrek said:I believe in leading by example, and just as Pieces said that negativity can be contagious, so can positivity. We know as forum members what the spirit of the camino should be and we have to stick to that.
Fair enough. But I respectfully would argue that if you rise super early and rush to your next location, you'll miss the real camino. Just my .02. By no means the gospel.falcon269 said:Respectfully, I disagree. I have never made a reservation at an albergue in Spain, and I have always found a bed. If you rise late, walk late, and do not reserve, you could have a problem!
To me, when in Spain, I want to follow the Spanish schedule as best I can. Now, one obviously can't wait till 9 PM to eat dinner while walking 25 km a day, leaving at 7 AM isn't going to help matters. But that is probably unique to me.Pieces said:who is talking about rushing ?
waveprof said:To me, when in Spain, I want to follow the Spanish schedule as best I can. Now, one obviously can't wait till 9 PM to eat dinner while walking 25 km a day, leaving at 7 AM isn't going to help matters. But that is probably unique to me.Pieces said:who is talking about rushing ?
But as crowded as things have gotten of late, if you aren't leaving early in the morning, walking fast, and prepared to stop early, then you are going to have trouble getting a bed in certain, more remote, stretches of the camino.
Or simply make a reservation 1-2 days in advance in the most remote areas. Achieves the same result.David said:... best thing you can do is to go into a hardware shop, borrow a hammer and smash your watch into little pieces, then give the hammer back and start walking :wink:
David said:nonononnonoooo- if you do make those reservations then you have to be there don't you - so no matter what amazing things might happen, or beautiful church you might see, or detour you hear of, or pilgrim who needs help - you must ignore it all and carry on, huffing and puffing to get there in time ...
My brother in spirit...David said:... best thing you can do is to go into a hardware shop, borrow a hammer and smash your watch into little pieces, then give the hammer back and start walking :wink:
waveprof said:To me, when in Spain, I want to follow the Spanish schedule as best I can. Now, one obviously can't wait till 9 PM to eat dinner while walking 25 km a day.Pieces said:who is talking about rushing ?
waveprof said:will say this. If you are firmly committed to never making reservations at a private albuergue 2-3 days in advance, then the Camino Frances is not the place for you. Time to go try the Norte.
Does this mean that I now have to add in a servant to my 'must have list' to run ahead and secure accomodation. :lol:falcon269 said:No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!
Thornley said:We will NOT stay in an albergue that takes cyclists .
newfydog said:Thornley said:We will NOT stay in an albergue that takes cyclists .
This has been exactly my experience so far. In the places I have stayed at till now (currently Burgos) only in Zubiri were beds hard to get after 7. Then again, I Wold imagine very few people would want to tarry a stage till such an hour. It's the height of summer now and there are loads of beds, with some albergues I have stayed at being less than even half full.falcon269 said:No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!
While I have nothing against cyclists and enjoy conversing with them just like walkers, this is not necessarily the case as a couple of days ago 4 cyclists were directly in front of me in the queue for Granon at 1.30.David said:newfydog said:Thornley said:We will NOT stay in an albergue that takes cyclists .
We have bikeists now? :|
I seem to remember that cyclists aren't usually allowed to stay until late as if late and weary walkers come and the refugio will be full then it is easier for them to cycle to the next refugio
I have also heard of cyclists taking a forgotten item onwards and giving it back the pilgrim who forgot it ..
so ... Thornley, what is your thing about cyclists? :?:
We found the same till we hit the meseta (fewer options) and Galicia (hordes of short-distance hikers). Not saying you'll change your mind, nor am I trying to change it, but since you are in Burgos, I felt it was worth the warning.NoQ said:This has been exactly my experience so far. In the places I have stayed at till now (currently Burgos) only in Zubiri were beds hard to get after 7. Then again, I Wold imagine very few people would want to tarry a stage till such an hour. It's the height of summer now and there are loads of beds, with some albergues I have stayed at being less than even half full.falcon269 said:No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!
David said:Thornley, what is your thing about cyclists?
falcon269 said:No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!
Didn't find Sucrum, but enjoyed a lovely Dominos pizza!waveprof said:We found the same till we hit the meseta (fewer options) and Galicia (hordes of short-distance hikers). Not saying you'll change your mind, nor am I trying to change it, but since you are in Burgos, I felt it was worth the warning.NoQ said:This has been exactly my experience so far. In the places I have stayed at till now (currently Burgos) only in Zubiri were beds hard to get after 7. Then again, I Wold imagine very few people would want to tarry a stage till such an hour. It's the height of summer now and there are loads of beds, with some albergues I have stayed at being less than even half full.falcon269 said:No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!
Also, since you are in Burgos, go have an ice cream at Sucrum for me. You won't be sorry you did.
...or as the great sage Groucho Marx said: I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.
I met two of those 'terrible' American youngsters on Camino three years ago. This pair were Texans (Texicans, pilgrim)
They had been boyfriend and girlfriend and went on Camino together to see how they would respond to each other away from all home support and under duress - they had a wonderful time.
After that Camino they went home and married. I met them near Logrono on their second Camino, their honeymoon.
They were quite wonderful, they smiled a lot, they laughed a lot, they were young and in love and full of life and goodness - I wanted to take them home and keep them as pets.
I love the young - that energy, that openness, that belief that they already know lots, that willingness to learn more, that belief that the world can be made better, that willingness to love .... marvellous.
I say - get the young of the world out on Camino![
You are already very well practised for the Camino. In my experience, walking the Camino is a see-saw of emotions. Sometimes excitement, sometimes apprehension, sometimes feeling the need to pray and sometimes crying for no apparent reason. In fact, it's quite possible to feel the whole lot at the same time.I am excited, apprehensive, prayerful, and find myself crying when I think of the trip.
When that is the reality, it makes sense to me to join them rather than fight them! You don't mold the camino, you accept it. You can reject the hurried mindset, but if you don't accept the reality, you pay a price. Many of the very pleasant people you meet at dinner were active participants in the bed race. It makes little sense to me to be mad at them, particularly if it gives you an attitude that ruins your camino experience. It is simply a fact that many pilgrims will not walk the camino you have created in your mind. It is your creation, not theirs.it seemed everyone's only priority was trying to claim a bed first
When that is the reality, it makes sense to me to join them rather than fight them! You don't mold the camino, you accept it. You can reject the hurried mindset, but if you don't accept the reality, you pay a price. Many of the very pleasant people you meet at dinner were active participants in the bed race. It makes little sense to me to be mad at them, particularly if it gives you an attitude that ruins your camino experience. It is simply a fact that many pilgrims will not walk the camino you have created in your mind. It is your creation, not theirs.
Solutions include staying in hostales, stopping in small villages, making reservations when possible, using a baggage service so you can walk faster and further, and camping. All will help preserve a positive attitude!
Is it just me?
Or is the Camino different this year?
People are not as kind. There are a lot of people acting more like tourists, complaining and even arguing with nuns about which bed they get. Stealing food. Stealing clothes and towels. I'm just getting more and more depressed.
Last night I had my stuff on a chair next to my bed. I came back from dinner to find it all dumped on the floor and another 'pilgrim' had their pack on the chair.
There was a fight in the albergue last night. People screamed at each other and it became physical.
People were overheard booking 2-3 places, saying they'd walk to wherever they could and wouldn't bother cancelling. They just wouldn't show up. No problem.
I put a nice piece of melon in the fridge for my breakfast and came back to find it smashed under bags of heavy wine and beer. When I was trying to rescue it, I got a stern lecture from some guy about how unenvironmentally aware I was being by holding the fridge door open. Sheesh !
I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.
I'm so depressed I wish I knew how to get an earlier flight home.
Is it me???
The Camino was always different; it was never the same. Attitudes change, that is all. One person's bad day is simply one observation.Anyway. Thanks for your responses. I still feel the movie or popularity has changed the Camino, and not in positive ways.
I also realize this has been a rough year for me personally and so I'm sure my own depression has something to do with it. Not feeling strong enough to finish the VDP was difficult to swallow and MP's death hit hard.
Like I said, maybe it's me
I do feel ready to go home.
Wow! ....
Buen Camino!
I find that many of our experiences, whether positive or negative can be attributed to mood or expectations; mostly our own.
Is it just me?
Or is the Camino different this year?
People are not as kind. There are a lot of people acting more like tourists, complaining and even arguing with nuns about which bed they get. Stealing food. Stealing clothes and towels. I'm just getting more and more depressed.
Last night I had my stuff on a chair next to my bed. I came back from dinner to find it all dumped on the floor and another 'pilgrim' had their pack on the chair.
There was a fight in the albergue last night. People screamed at each other and it became physical.
People were overheard booking 2-3 places, saying they'd walk to wherever they could and wouldn't bother cancelling. They just wouldn't show up. No problem.
I put a nice piece of melon in the fridge for my breakfast and came back to find it smashed under bags of heavy wine and beer. When I was trying to rescue it, I got a stern lecture from some guy about how unenvironmentally aware I was being by holding the fridge door open. Sheesh !
I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.
I'm so depressed I wish I knew how to get an earlier flight home.
Is it me???
So sorry to hear this.
Where are you - on which camino?
NamasteThis year is my first Camino so I offer to make no comparisons to years, decades, or centuries past on the Way.
I have found nothing but light, hope and openness among my fellow peregrinos. I also have been surprised by how _few_ people there are on the Camino Frances, after reading some complaints here. I leave around 9am, walk until 3 to 5, and have yet to see more than a half dozen fellow pilgrims in a day. On 3 or 4 days I have literally seen no other walkers, just a few passing cyclists. I have purposely started and ended in between the traditional stages, and (following a tip I learned here from Anniesantiago) I aim for the albergue with the fewest beds, on the contrarian (and so far correct) theory that most pilgrims assume they will already be full, thereby skipping them and ironically leaving them wide open. I have yet to stay anywhere full after the muni in Zubiri.
From a Zen perspective, the root of all suffering comes from our attachments to ideas about how things should be or remembered narratives of how things once were. The only Camino that exists in reality is the one that arises in this moment. Our path out of suffering lies in meeting that experience as it arises.
I have learned so much from the veteran peregrinos on this forum, and from no one more than the OP. But I can't help but observe moments of attachment in all of us from time to time to ideas about "our" Camino, "better" past Caminos, "more authentic pre-movie" Caminos, etc. However alluring and attractive, those Caminos do not exist. They are delusions that only trap us in more suffering.
The movie or the weather or the economy may be different than in the past, but the peregrino whose Camino runs through 'The Way' has no less authentic a Camino than those for whom a past Camino is remembered differently. To the contrary, the authenticity and warmth of a candle flame is never diminished when used to light a thousand more flames, or a million. In my view, the movie is just a modern version of the bridge built by Santo Domingo. If it brings more warmth and love to more people, it only makes the world a brighter and warmer place. Faith, hope and love are not subject to the second law of thermodynamics.
My own flame has been lighted anew on this year's Camino Frances. No one's candle on this forum has done more to fuel that flame than Anniesantiago. Your candle may be flickering at the moment - dont be afraid to relight it from some of the very same flames you helped light to begin with. That is the reason we each have candles in our hearts
Buen Camino.
It is different, I just returned from my second camino and found it crowded with a lot of pilgrims just being tourists ( no packsack to carry, luggage being forwarded to the next private Auberge), lots of complaining and down right miserable people...mostly the older crowd, the young people were invariably friendly and pleasant. Also a lot of pilgrims who did not have a clue about gear, footwear, where they were going or even where they were.....made you wonder if some of them could read! I concluded there are a lot of people on that trail that are there simply because they saw the movie and decided it would be a cool thing to do. Facilities are overcrowded and in many of the smaller towns, inadequate to the number of pilgrims. Having said that, the majority of pilgrims I met were well equipped, pleasant and obviously enjoying the experience, but there were a lot more of the former type than when I first walked in 2009.
Annie, I'm sorry to hear of all of your difficulties this year on the Camino. Having walked in 2010, 2012 and serving as a hospitalera in 2011, I noticed a difference too. And of course, so was I.
I think after I do the Norte in 2015, I will be done...there are other paths to walk (Lycian Way, Shikoku 88, Jesus/Nativity/Abraham Trails/Paths) and I just found out about a short one in Hawaii on the Big Island that looks promising. I don't post much on here anymore because it's just too nasty. I pop in a few times a year and see what's going on and it's just more nastiness. I'm just as guilty of it too. We all are. So much for the lessons we learn on the Camino, eh?
Annie, if you're in "town" let me know. I'd love to meet up for coffee! Hang in there lady!
Olivares; you are pretty quick to judge yourself. I was not referring to those who through physical limitations were unable to carry a pack, ( that should have been obvious), I was referring the many perfectly able bodied ( and proud of it) people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without. There were a lot of them, they were on a vacation, tourists doing something because it was cool,or had seen the movie etc etc, nothing more. Seems to me that is not what a pilgrimage is about ..... a little effort makes it real. My point was I did not see any of that in 2009, with the obvious and completely justifiable exceptions.Your assumption that a pilgrim that does not carry a ramsack is nothing but a tourist is absolutely wrong. I am pretty sure that those pilgrims with chronic back pains, assymetric joints, and injured neck/shoulders would be very well insulted by you calling their pilgrimage nothing but a vacation. I know I am. To many it is either do the pilgrimage and don't carry the back load or don't do the pilgrimage at all. The fact that they STILL get on the Camino (add old age to mix) makes them MORE of a pilgrim than many that I see carrying their own while sprinting to the next Albergue. Don't be so quick to judge and dismiss. One day you may need the understanding you seemed to be lacking today...
Ouch!!people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without
Olivares; you are pretty quick to judge yourself. I was not referring to those who through physical limitations were unable to carry a pack, ( that should have been obvious), I was referring the many perfectly able bodied ( and proud of it) people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without. There were a lot of them, they were on a vacation, tourists doing something because it was cool,or had seen the movie etc etc, nothing more. Seems to me that is not what a pilgrimage is about ..... a little effort makes it real. My point was I did not see any of that in 2009, with the obvious and completely justifiable exceptions.
It also requires a little effort to be non judgmental about other peoples opinions, and to respect the views of others without jumping to (erroneous) conclusions. Buen Camino!
I was referring the many perfectly able bodied ( and proud of it) people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without. There were a lot of them, they were on a vacation, tourists doing something because it was cool,or had seen the movie etc etc, nothing more.
It also requires a little effort to be non judgmental about other peoples opinions, and to respect the views of others without jumping to (erroneous) conclusions. Buen Camino!
I waffle.........!
Al the optimist, I don't imagine it's the entire thread that you need to ignore, maybe just a particular user. It's a shame to have to miss out on an entire intelligent threads contents, best regards, StevenTime for me to ignore this thread I think
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