Just Finished The Camino Frances St Jean To Santiago Some Thoughts

[Tony Wake]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

 

[MTtoCamino]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

I like that you have given us your initial feelings on your return. I will be curious to see if after being back awhile & time to contemplate if it changes some.
To me we all have individual experiences good & bad. If you ever get the opportunity to walk in the slow times of year or try the less traveled routes I think you would have a much different experience..
In any case I wish you well as we are the lucky to have made the journey.
Keith

 

[zzotte]

I totally agree with you Tony a had a very similar experience on both of my caminos, its sad really

Zzotte

 

[mountaingoat999]

Tony I also totally agree with you.
the camino is fast changing and so is some of the behaviour.....I have witnessed and seen exactly what you describe more and more,
to avoid this use small albergues when you can and a private room as and when or all the time.

ignore those who "cheat" as you say.. why let them live in your head rent free.....in all my caminos I have meet some outstanding people who far outweigh those who are the not..

if you find your ending up up at the end of the day with the same disruptive few around you,,,either walk on to the next town or stop the town before this way you avoid them.......

leaving the albergue first or last gives you space from large number if that is annoying for you..

part & parcel of albergue living is ..people waking up at all times...being inconsiderate........snoring/torches etc etc......

I take a tent ......problem solved for me......when I want to be inside with a few pilgrims we take a room, share the cost if you find a room for four people for example...

what you describe is part of the camino...its not just young Spanish people or older american people........it some people .some days it can be better than others...
I hope you go again and try some other tactics......

another camino or another time of year.........the Camino Francas is busy and not for everybody......

I swore I would never do a second camino......for all the reasons you stated......

then after a month in Rome with my girlfriend after camino we started to laugh about all the snoring.torches ,door slamming etc...Plastic bags opening /closing a hundred times

 

[jmcarp]

I'm sorry Tony had such an unpleasant experience. Perhaps the Camino has changed in the two years since my wife and I walked the CF -- I hope not, at least not as much as he experienced. Yes, there were a few instances where early risers, loud talkers, "me-firsters," and the like caused disturbances or soured a particular situation, but we must remember that the Camino is just a microcosm of society in general, and most of us face those sort of people every day. As for "cheating," I wasn't aware that there any sort of rules for the Camino. Yes, there are requirements if one wishes to receive a Compostela -- and there are a few who cheat on those requirements -- but I don't recall anything that says a person can't take a taxi or bus from time to time otherwise. Who knows if that person is not feeling well, or has to make up for lost time in order to meet a scheduled flight home?

I don't direct this to Tony or anyone else in particular, but it seems to me that two factors determine our Camino experience: attitude and expectations. Leave those behind and just take every day as it comes. If we can do that, most will come away from Santiago with positive feelings of joy and gratitude for a life-changing experience.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

that two factors determine our Camino experience: attitude and expectations.

And earplugs...

 

[dcorrea951]

I witnessed some "cheating" when a car pulled up next to some "Pilgrims" and gave them their stamped passports. No reason to get angry, they only cheat themselves. You should feel sorry for them, for they will never know the true Camino and what it means.

 

[grayland]

This is really an important subject that comes up from time to time.
The reality is that not everyone seems to fit into or connect with the often discussed and reported "Camino family".
It is doubly depressing when the expectation of the comradeship is expected.
It may be a good thing that it be discussed more often.

The behavior reported has become more prevalent in the past few years but thankfully is not the normal experience (yet).

I really suggest that we all keep an eye out for people who seem to have been "left out". With some...that is the way they prefer and will decline offers of inclusion..but the effort is a good thing.
I actually have done this for many years after reading a similar post after my first Camino in 2009. It is usually well received and the people fit easily into whatever group I am with and have a good Camino experience.
Just my opinion.

 

[cardifflad52]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

I started the Camino Ingles on August 28th and first time experience doing something like that , i could not do a longer one as i only had about 12 days to spare .. Anyway i had the same issues with some cheating who would take the road walking route rather than the proper paths then there was the odd one taking a taxi and the albergues one could not get off to sleep due to the racket in the lounge then others shinning torches in your face when it was time for their bed then those rushing to be out at 5am as if it was a race , next time maybe i will reconsider staying at a few of the Albergues and go elsewhere ...Terry

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The concept of cheating requires that someone be diminishing what someone else gets, that is, you win a poker pot that belongs to someone else. I fail to see how someone getting a compostela they did not earn diminishes what I get by any amount. To me, it is never useful to use someone else's yardstick to measure myself. It smacks of envy and jealousy.

 

[Magnara]

As Mountaingoat999 says...another camino, another time of year. we did Frances in winter (saw about 6 pilgrims in the whole 750km), Via Francigena in autumn (saw a handful), and Le Puy to St Jean in spring (more, but not busy). We didn't experience your issues in any of our pilgrimages, so there are other options available.

 

[wayfarer]

When I read this I feel very lucky that when I walked the CF in April/May 2012 there were days when we only saw other pilgrims in the distance ahead or behind, we only had one awful experience with an albergue in the whole journey to Santiago, this is the one we still talk and laugh about, and one incident on the way from Santiago to Finisterre where a few French pilgrims came in to the albergue from the bar at about 11.30 pm and woke everyone and this lasted only about five minutes. Sure we had snorers but we snored too, we had a great Camino family and I am still in contact with many of them.
I hope to walk the CF again and I hope it hasn't changed that much.

 

[CaptBuddy]

The concept of cheating requires that someone be diminishing what someone else gets, that is, you win a poker pot that belongs to someone else. I fail to see how someone getting a compostela they did not earn diminishes what I get by any amount. To me, it is never useful to use someone else's yardstick to measure myself. It smacks of envy and jealousy.

+1
Falcon, I doubt that you have suffered from the 'my Camino was better than your Camino' syndrome. Me either.
I'm sorry that everyone did not have the wonderful experiences that we did. Being unhappy with your choices is a painful thing.
I hope Tony has a better experience next time.

 

[Chacharm]

I witnessed some "cheating" when a car pulled up next to some "Pilgrims" and gave them their stamped passports. No reason to get angry, they only cheat themselves. You should feel sorry for them, for they will never know the true Camino and what it means.

Maybe they'd forgotten them at their last Albuergue and the hospitalero was nice enough to catch up and hand them back.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

The camino did not meet your expectations?
Oh my dear! How you suffered!

 

[fraluchi]

I hope to walk the CF again and I hope it hasn't changed that much.

The world is changing and so is the Camino, particularly the Francés. It is gradually becoming victim to its own success Old timers will be upset when comparing yesterday's fervor with to-day's materialism. It seems to be a sign of the time, that even a gracious town like Venice in Italy is slowly becoming a Disneyland. Similarly, the Camino will soon be even more crowded with people who draw themselves in comfort from one end of the country to Santiago in fancy "pilgrim" attire. Then brag at home about their feat, adding their digital experiences to the ever increasing number of revelations on YouTube, Vimeo, Facebook, blogs and else.... Enough said about the "tourigrinos".
The real pilgrims will definitely not die. But they risk to be overrun by noisy crowds who have other ideas about how to "do" the Camino and take advantage of infrastructures, conveniently set up to satisfy these new "markets". All one has to do is look at the numbers and be selective.....

 

[Missblisters]

Oh dear....I am starting my first Camino this week, sounds like I am a few years too late, I am full of hope that I will meet lovely people and definitley won't be behaving like you say. I'm sorryto hear about your bad experiences.

 

[CaptBuddy]

Oh dear....I am starting my first Camino this week, sounds like I am a few years too late, I am full of hope that I will meet lovely people and definitley won't be behaving like you say. I'm sorryto hear about your bad experiences.

Go with an open mind, and adventure in your heart, and curb your expectations, and you will have a memorable journey.
And keep my Plan B in mind: if it all goes to pieces, there are lots of nice beaches in the South of Spain.
Buen Viaje

 

[GettingThere]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

Tony, I was feeling sorry that you'd had a bad experience as I read through your post, but then two thirds of the way through there it was - the "...but saying that...", and I was delighted to read then that in fact you did meet some lovely people, that you made friends, and that you really enjoyed your time on the Camino, the lovely Spanish people, the villages and so on, and that your only real problem was blisters! So while I second those who have sympathised with the not-so-nice parts of your experience, it sounds as though overall you really did have a good time - and that indeed you would do it all again! Wonderful - and I'm glad I kept reading to the end of your report! And I hope those nervously preparing for their first Caminos will take heart from your post, and know that while there may be things that annoy or disturb that it's still possible to have a wonderful experience on the Camino Frances, and that like you they may soon be looking a few years ahead to the next time!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I am full of hope that I will meet lovely people and definitley won't be behaving like you say.

You will find plenty of great people! Have fun. Buen camino.

 

[MTtoCamino]

We all certainly approach the Camino in different thought, as well with expectations. I expected to have snow/rain & many obstacles, no slack. What I found was a smooth lovely group of fellow pilgrims. I have nothing but the desire to return with my wife, children & grandchildren. My only suggestion to all who get a call to go: Keep your heart soft under all circumstances. Embrace the humanity you find.
Keith

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I read Tony's post nodding my head in agreement, "been there, seen that". I came back from the Primitivo,this spring having loved it but cringing at what the Frances was satarting in Melide. What a disaster. This being said, the Camino is not a packaged tour to Disney (oh, wait, it is for many these daus only lookinf to collect a peice of paper ) with garanteed smiles. Frankly, I think it's for intraverts who love piece and quiet, or at least it was, amd now is on the other Caminos.

Now, where I wish Tony had had a different image or expectation of the Camino is when he speaks of the "camino family". That is a load of nonsense I have only heard of on this Forum other from someone I walked with in Camino 3 who actually spoke of "Camino spouses" (not sexually!!!!).

All you can bank on on the Camino is that it is a path marked by arrows and other signs that aim to take you to Santiago. Ideally you could also expect a bed in an albergue at a low price, but these days, as Tony points out, cheaters will get your 5€ bed without having worked for it. After all. There are no rules, right ? Abusing the system, abusing the values of those who set up,and maintain these albergues is just fine. After all, it's your Camino. No?

The more I walk the more I believe that the Camino is made for intraverts, and will only survive if intraverts or respectful extraverts walk it.

Tony, the CF has become a circus, but surely these days that is well known. And these days there is contradiction between wanting a family and relationships and peace and quiet. I am just sorry you did not walk 4-5 years ago, as your experience would have been different. And I'm afraid that you will not fine that balance of socialising and respect any more. Try another Camino next time, and find yourself, not a "family". It is a lovely thing.

 

[Sailor]

. . . I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015 . . .

Thanks Tony Wake for your Camino Frances quicklook.

 

[LakeMcD]

How does one define a proper pilgrim?

How does one define a proper pilgrimage?

Some where about the 4th week my camino "tribe" and I played a complete the sentence game to pass the time; it soon took on a life of it's own and provided much entertainment as well as reflection. I believe this lasted several days and spread well beyond the tribe. Some of the responses were humorous, some profoundly personal, and all stemmed from experiences on the journey.

Here it is, enjoy: You know you're a real pilgrim when.............

 

[C clearly]

How does one define a proper pilgrim?
How does one define a proper pilgrimage?
Some where about the 4th week my camino "tribe" and I played a complete the sentence game to pass the time; it soon took on a life of it's own and provided much entertainment as well as reflection. I believe this lasted several days and spread well beyond the tribe. Some of the responses were humorous, some profoundly personal, and all stemmed from experiences on the journey.
Here it is, enjoy: You know you're a real pilgrim when.............

Haven't we done that one enough?

 

[SabsP]

Oh Tony... seems your Camino was a bit like life itself?

 

[LizziesFirstPilgrimage]

Oh dear....I am starting my first Camino this week, sounds like I am a few years too late, I am full of hope that I will meet lovely people .

Hi Missblisters - let me reassure you that you are going to have an exceptional experience. I started walking Aug 4th in Pamplona and arrived in Santiago Sep 3rd. I even had time to take the bus to Finisterre. I went with no expectations and found myself surrounded by wonderful pilgrims, many of whom took a piece of my heart when I said goodbye. I found it very challenging physically - and I won't lie...there was a day when I was ready to come home. But it had nothing to do with the people - it had everything to do with me. I stuck it out. Took a bus for 50 km because my knees were killing me. And I also took two taxis through the more steep declines of the Galician region. I didn't have a problem with that - I walked about 650 km but not for a compostella. I walked for myself - as an opportunity to find out more about myself. The bonus was that I found out about others and I learned from them. This is a great opportunity - keep it simple and just go with the flow. If you have no expectations you won't be disappointed. Buen Camino Amiga

 

[CaptBuddy]

Hi Missblisters - let me reassure you that you are going to have an exceptional experience. I started walking Aug 4th in Pamplona and arrived in Santiago Sep 3rd. I even had time to take the bus to Finisterre. I went with no expectations and found myself surrounded by wonderful pilgrims, many of whom took a piece of my heart when I said goodbye. I found it very challenging physically - and I won't lie...there was a day when I was ready to come home. But it had nothing to do with the people - it had everything to do with me. I stuck it out. Took a bus for 50 km because my knees were killing me. And I also took two taxis through the more steep declines of the Galician region. I didn't have a problem with that - I walked about 650 km but not for a compostella. I walked for myself - as an opportunity to find out more about myself. The bonus was that I found out about others and I learned from them. This is a great opportunity - keep it simple and just go with the flow. If you have no expectations you won't be disappointed. Buen Camino Amiga

Sounds like a great Camino, Peregrina.

 

[LizziesFirstPilgrimage]

It certainly was. My initial thought was that I would never do it again. But I've been home a week now and am missing the bonds of friendship and the feeling of having conquered another day. I'm certainly more relaxed about life since I've returned. I'm going with the flow because everything will work out as destined.

 

[LauraK]

This is really an important subject that comes up from time to time.
The reality is that not everyone seems to fit into or connect with the often discussed and reported "Camino family".
It is doubly depressing when the expectation of the comradeship is expected.
It may be a good thing that it be discussed more often.

The behavior reported has become more prevalent in the past few years but thankfully is not the normal experience (yet).

I really suggest that we all keep an eye out for people who seem to have been "left out". With some...that is the way they prefer and will decline offers of inclusion..but the effort is a good thing.
I actually have done this for many years after reading a similar post after my first Camino in 2009. It is usually well received and the people fit easily into whatever group I am with and have a good Camino experience.
Just my opinion.

Grayland: A great point. As a 60+ year old I was excluded by a group of 30 year olds during my winter camino (fewer albergues open so we all tended to end up at the same place each evening). Didn't bother me. They cooked and ate a communal meal while I sat at the end of the table eating my own small meal. I didn't intrude but offered the rest of my bottle of wine since I only had one glass for myself. The next night the same thing and even saw some "not too happy" looks between them as I walked into the albergue. That night I offered them the rest of my package of cookies for dessert. The third night they actually talked to me. After a few more nights I was included as one of the group and after not seeing them for a few nights, they asked me for my number so they could text me...I was told I was "cool" and one of them (wow - got a kick out of that one!).
Then we ended up in an albergue with a couple from Portugal that had just started their camino in Ponferada. The "young" group did the same thing they did to me earlier- completely ignored them sitting at the end of the table. In fact, tried to work the seating so they couldn't sit at "their" table. I could tell the couple was uncomfortable as this was there first night (their clothes were really really clean) and it was obvious everyone else knew each other . I started a conversation and welcomed them to the camino. Within 20 minutes the group started entering the conversation and they ended up being a great addition to our camino family. One of the "young" ones that was the biggest "excluder" later told me he realized he had been judging people, especially the older ones and had learned a great lesson. Lesson here is not only to look out for the "left out" pilgrims, but as you did, teach by example.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Grayland: A great point. As a 60+ year old I was excluded by a group of 30 year olds during my winter camino (fewer albergues open so we all tended to end up at the same place each evening). Didn't bother me. They cooked and ate a communal meal while I sat at the end of the table eating my own small meal. I didn't intrude but offered the rest of my bottle of wine since I only had one glass for myself. The next night the same thing and even saw some "not too happy" looks between them as I walked into the albergue. That night I offered them the rest of my package of cookies for dessert. The third night they actually talked to me. After a few more nights I was included as one of the group and after not seeing them for a few nights, they asked me for my number so they could text me...I was told I was "cool" and one of them (wow - got a kick out of that one!).
Then we ended up in an albergue with a couple from Portugal that had just started their camino in Ponferada. The "young" group did the same thing they did to me earlier- completely ignored them sitting at the end of the table. In fact, tried to work the seating so they couldn't sit at "their" table. I could tell the couple was uncomfortable as this was there first night (their clothes were really really clean) and it was obvious everyone else knew each other . I started a conversation and welcomed them to the camino. Within 20 minutes the group started entering the conversation and they ended up being a great addition to our camino family. One of the "young" ones that was the biggest "excluder" later told me he realized he had been judging people, especially the older ones and had learned a great lesson. Lesson here is not only to look out for the "left out" pilgrims, but as you did, teach by example.

Great post LauraK

I like your thinking....

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I didn't intrude but offered the rest of my bottle of wine

It takes some boldness to be included. The bottle of wine is a great introduction. So is a bottle of hierbas de orujo. Asking to join a table works a lot of the time. Tight groups might turn you down, but it has never happened to me. When you are alone at a table, invite others to join you before they take their own table.

 

[MichaelB10398]

I have found there are three types of people:

1. Those who wait for something to happen,
2. Those who ask what happened, and
3. Those who make things happen.

The Camino is a teacher, but she is not a dominating task master who forces each pilgrim to perform the chores of a successful pilgrim. She teaches more gently and softly. We have to talk to others rather than wait for others to talk to us; we have to remain silent when we seek silence; we have to serve others, regardless of nationality, religion, or way of being. We will have learned nothing if we only looked for those who are most easy to serve.

The Camino has known times when there were significantly more pilgrims on the Way just as it has known times when there were far fewer. Be the pilgrim you want to be and don't be concerned about how another pilgrim has chosen to be. Just be grateful you can choose where to walk, how far, and under whatever conditions you choose.

We all can have our own little soap box; however, our soap box is not intended to be our home. Get off of it often and stay away from it as much as possible. We each will recognize when we have been on it too much. Let us find the beauty in those who are different; let us make the Camino experience great for others and in doing so, we will find a most beautiful Way for ourselves.

 

[Deleted member 43780]

Re: "I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones"

I have met many wonderful "older American pilgrims and young Spanish ones" on my Caminos.

Tony, please consider walking again.

First time I walked was in 1981. Biked in 2104. Walked 2015.

I did not care for many things on my most recent Caminos (2014 & 2015). Things happen.

But, the things I did like far out weighed the dislikes. Especially the people! Wonderful.

Yes, it is your Camino. But, we all walk the Camino(s) together..body, mind and spirt...we are together.

 

[m108]

When I read this I feel very lucky that when I walked the CF in April/May 2012 there were days when we only saw other pilgrims in the distance ahead or behind, we only had one awful experience with an albergue in the whole journey to Santiago, this is the one we still talk and laugh about, and one incident on the way from Santiago to Finisterre where a few French pilgrims came in to the albergue from the bar at about 11.30 pm and woke everyone and this lasted only about five minutes. Sure we had snorers but we snored too, we had a great Camino family and I am still in contact with many of them.
I hope to walk the CF again and I hope it hasn't changed that much.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that it is very different (compared with 2011). I'm pretty sure that the CF is for me complete.
Meseta "call" me, but is also available through other direction. I must admit that I was slightly disappointed this year (Pamplona - Burgos). But this is my problem. Camino lives its own life

 

[Paco Camino]

Ah Tony, I think you've hit on a well deserved topic that is constantly discussed among many of us.
Oh Yes ! I too have encountered these situatuations, but as previous members idicated, the benefits outweigh the beefs. And then again I've continued to walk on several more caminos, slowly amassing 5600 km, And these things haven't detered me yet, even physical pain ( leg stress fracture for 350 km) hasn't stopped me. And I'm still planning another 1200km one for April on '16. But I have noticed it from other on their first caminos, never to return. I think I've see it all, but I'am sure there are "more" characters out there. But then, maybe my "member photo" might be appropriate to these individuals - hahaha ! Actually I've encountered more troublesome hospitaleros than real problem peregrinos - more focused on money, than on giving assistance. Yes, try to go out of the late June to Early Sept. time on the camino - less traffic, the albergues are less busy, the hospitaleros less frustrated, and the weather more bearable. Maybe the camino should also be called Camino Barato for those turigrinos !
keep walking, but don't wait too long.

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

 

[jennie]

Oh dear....I am starting my first Camino this week, sounds like I am a few years too late, I am full of hope that I will meet lovely people and definitley won't be behaving like you say. I'm sorryto hear about your bad experiences.

dont worry,, go with an open mind and you WILL meet lovely and interesting people from all over the world,my sis and i were there this time last year and not a day went by without thinking how amazing it was and how lucky we were to have the chance to chat to these people with great stories to tell and even the language barrier did not stop us from greeting or being greeted with a huge smile and wave,,in my opinion your good attitude is the most important thing to bring with you.. !!

 

[jennie]

G'day - Included/Not Included/Young/Old - Here's my recent experience on this one - I'm 65 and i left the work world 4 years ago at which time a bought a airplane ticket to Amsterdam with a return date 3 months out. Put a few things in my ancient backpack and just went - no real plan as to any destinations after my arrival ("just follow your nose"). In those 3 months i traveled in 15 countries (stayed in both major cities and small towns). Because im "frugal" (not to confused with "cheap) i stayed every night in what are termed "youth hostels" (although in reality they are open to all ages). I can honestly say that at each and every place i stayed i was never excluded because of my age unless i wanted it that way. Most times my beer was free - payed for by someone 1/3 my age and more often than naught i heard the words "come join us". Maybe, like me, they were also caught up in the joy of being "on the road" and wanted to spread it around or maybe i was just really really lucky. After all, there is no law in the universe that i know of which says that any of us have to include anyone in anything we do. Not a very nice thing to do but "you don't want to include me?" oh well, too bad so sad for me - next! But then the camino may be a different experience or not. I'll surely find out come Spring/2016. - Cheers!

EXACTLY the way myself and my sis found the camino last year and the year before doing a part with dad,,all ages from all countries and all walks of life sharing as you put it the "joy of being on the road" only being alone if that was the way you wanted to be..ps we loved the canadians we meet,great ambassadors for the country.

 

[Lmsundaze]

Wow, reading this thread kind of depressed me. My first camino is next April. Due to some health concerns I expect to need to use the bus or taxi in some places. I do not consider it cheating, people differ in their health and capabilities. I would not take the bus and take someone's place in an albergue, but I am limited by my own circumstances. Yes, I am a 70 year old American. I would not ask for a compestela if I do not walk all the way from Sarria. Do people think a pilgrimage is not for me? Feeling sad reading this.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Wow, reading this thread kind of depressed me. My first camino is next April. Due to some health concerns I expect to need to use the bus or taxi in some places. I do not consider it cheating, people differ in their health and capabilities. I would not take the bus and take someone's place in an albergue, but I am limited by my own circumstances. Yes, I am a 70 year old American. I would not ask for a compestela if I do not walk all the way from Sarria. Do people think a pilgrimage is not for me? Feeling sad reading this.

Imsundaze, you show a lot of sensibilty towards others in your post, for examp,e when you mention you would not stake a claim to a bed if you had not walked. That is wonderful. And you ask a difficult question that sadends me to read: is a pilgrimage not for me.

Let me ask, why do you expect to need to take a taxi or a bus? What about only walking to the next albergue,of that os all you can do? There is nothing wrong with that. I think the whole "cheating" by bus or taxi comes from people deciding they must get from point a to point b in a given time. Remove that self imposed constaint and do what you can each day. I learned this from a 25 year old or Estonian on my first Camino. Tall, thin, fit as a fiddle that one, unlike me. It had never occured to me until then that it is not a race, that you can take all the time in the world to get from point a to point b. I was stunned when she said this. Lesson learned!

Of course there are those days when one is ill and it may happen on one of the few days on the CF where there is nothing, water or shelter, for 15km or so, as is the case going to Najera or out of Carion de los Condes. I actually love the idea of the horse ride up to O'Cebreiro; didn't exist when I was there. And I'm a person who cheated: on my Norte Camino last fall I developped plantar fasciitis. And there was no way to only walk 5 or 10 km a day to the next albergue. So I walked for 5 hours a day or so and then found some sort of transportation. But this spring I walked every step of the Primitivo, erning every drop of ink on that compostela, and super porud of it, and grateful my footmhad healed.

I hope this helps a bit.

 

[VNwalking]

@Imsundaze, please do not take us all too seriously.
There are lots of viewpoints here on the forum about who's a 'real' pilgrim and who isn't, but most of that tired argument is nothing but pure view and opinion.
The only thing that really matters is your heart's intention, not how far you walk or how you get from Point A to Point B.
An example...this March I met a Korean guy who was clearly struggling, but very determined. Turned out he had had polio as a child and one side of his body was not so mobile. So sometimes he walked and sometimes he took a taxi. Was he a 'real' pilgrim? Darn right he was, and a whole lot better and less identified with being a pilgrim than half of us, I can tell you.
So no worries. Trust yourself and go as your heart dictates and never mind what other people say. You'll be fine...and a pilgrim.

 

[Lmsundaze]

Imsundaze, you show a lot of sensibilty towards others in your post, for examp,e when you mention you would not stake a claim to a bed if you had not walked. That is wonderful. And you ask a difficult question that sadends me to read: is a pilgrimage not for me.

Let me ask, why do you expect to need to take a taxi or a bus? What about only walking to the next albergue,of that os all you can do? There is nothing wrong with that. I think the whole "cheating" by bus or taxi comes from people deciding they must get from point a to point b in a given time. Remove that self imposed constaint and do what you can each day. I learned this from a 25 year old or Estonian on my first Camino. Tall, thin, fit as a fiddle that one, unlike me. It had never occured to me until then that it is not a race, that you can take all the time in the world to get from point a to point b. I was stunned when she said this. Lesson learned!

Of course there are those days when one is ill and it may happen on one of the few days on the CF where there is nothing, water or shelter, for 15km or so, as is the case going to Najera or out of Carion de los Condes. I actually love the idea of the horse ride up to O'Cebreiro; didn't exist when I was there. And I'm a person who cheated: on my Norte Camino last fall I developped plantar fasciitis. And there was no way to only walk 5 or 10 km a day to the next albergue. So I walked for 5 hours a day or so and then found some sort of transportation. But this spring I walked every step of the Primitivo, erning every drop of ink on that compostela, and super porud of it, and grateful my footmhad healed.

I hope this helps a bit.

Anemone, thank you for your very kind response to my post. I appreciate it very much, and am so glad your foot healed and you were able to complete your camino. That said, I posted that because of health concerns I would need to take a taxi or bus in certain places. I do not feel that I should have to explain to others what are my limitations. This is not aimed at you, but why should pilgrimage be only for the physically healthy? It doesn't feel good to be asked to detail what is my medical condition. I don't think it is "cheating" to walk only what you could while you had plantar fasciitis. What would be cheating, to me, would be to claim to have walked if you had not.

 

[MTtoCamino]

The whole human desire to judge will never go away until we are free of this earth. Yet this forum exists because of a very special ribbon of souls walking together & attemping to find answers.
In my not so humble opinion.
If you show up looking healthy people make assumptions that you are, until for some reason they discover you are sick, crazy or both. Bottom line go & find what your soul is searching
Keith

 

[C clearly]

What would be cheating, to me, would be to claim to have walked if you had not.

Then you have answered your own questions. You know what your values are; be confident in them. You don't have to explain to anyone, and pilgrimage is most definitely not only for the physically healthy.

People say odd things, stupid things, thoughtless things, or even just incomplete things all the time - me included. I don't think that Tony, in the original post, was talking about honest humble people doing their best with whatever limitations they have.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Anemone, thank you for your very kind response to my post. I appreciate it very much, and am so glad your foot healed and you were able to complete your camino. That said, I posted that because of health concerns I would need to take a taxi or bus in certain places. I do not feel that I should have to explain to others what are my limitations. This is not aimed at you, but why should pilgrimage be only for the physically healthy? It doesn't feel good to be asked to detail what is my medical condition. I don't think it is "cheating" to walk only what you could while you had plantar fasciitis. What would be cheating, to me, would be to claim to have walked if you had not.

Imsundaze, I was not asking you to tell us what your limitations are, but asking why you felt a taxi or bus would help your limitations? The CF allows you to walk very very short days, very very short days. So the bus or taxi really is of little help as long as you can walk a little bit each day. And I quote myself: "Why do you expect to need to take a bus or of a taxi ....mrevove the self imposed conditions of having to walk from point a to b in a specific amount of time...".

Albergues also allow prople who are not well to spend a second day, and some times thrid day. Even more restful than walking to a bus station or just packing and unpacking.

So no inquiery about your health condition, just wondering how a taxi or bus will help. Help what? As long as you do not feel you need to follow Breierly, do not need to get to Santiago in X number of days, nor keep up with a few people you might have met, I ask again, what does a bus or a taxi allow you to do,that you would not be able to do otherwise?

And remember, I did say there are times, but very few on the CF, where distance can be an issue and understand one not being able to do longer stretches. But if you feel so poorly that you cannot walk on route enough one day there are options, such as spending a second day on site. Unless you have set yourself a goal of reaching an arbitrary destination withing a specific time frame, be it on a daily basis, or for an overall Camino.

Jean-Christophe Ruffin putsmit so well in Immortelle randonnée when he says the Camino is about the repeated and constant contact of the feet on the ground,and how it affects the brain and the not destination.

Please read what I first wrote, I did not say you would be cheating and you would not be a pilgrim, far from it. I just tried to show there is an alternative you may not have considered, one that may not expend any more enegery or cause any more discomfort that taking a bus or taxi, at least on the short days the CF offers. And one that you may actually enjoy more.

One my first day on my 1st Camino I passed on the Napoleon rout a ver heavy woman, dressed in city clothes, struggling very much to put a foot in front of the other. Heard that evening that she was terminally iil due to Cancer. Will never forget her, especially because noone from that day's walk ever saw her again. I've often wondered if she was ok after that first day. And there are many stories like this one on the Camino, there is even a stretch on the CF that is build somthat the blind can experience the Camino. Even if it's a very short stretch, it's probably a km or so, now even the blind can walk there Camino by their own means. Kuddos to the city official who made that possible, who made the Camino experience, as short as it is available to the blind.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I read Tony's post nodding my head in agreement, "been there, seen that". I came back from the Primitivo,this spring having loved it but cringing at what the Frances was satarting in Melide. What a disaster. This being said, the Camino is not a packaged tour to Disney (oh, wait, it is for many these daus only lookinf to collect a peice of paper ) with garanteed smiles. Frankly, I think it's for intraverts who love piece and quiet, or at least it was, amd now is on the other Caminos.

Now, where I wish Tony had had a different image or expectation of the Camino is when he speaks of the "camino family". That is a load of nonsense I have only heard of on this Forum other from someone I walked with in Camino 3 who actually spoke of "Camino spouses" (not sexually!!!!).

All you can bank on on the Camino is that it is a path marked by arrows and other signs that aim to take you to Santiago. Ideally you could also expect a bed in an albergue at a low price, but these days, as Tony points out, cheaters will get your 5€ bed without having worked for it. After all. There are no rules, right ? Abusing the system, abusing the values of those who set up,and maintain these albergues is just fine. After all, it's your Camino. No?

The more I walk the more I believe that the Camino is made for intraverts, and will only survive if intraverts or respectful extraverts walk it.

Tony, the CF has become a circus, but surely these days that is well known. And these days there is contradiction between wanting a family and relationships and peace and quiet. I am just sorry you did not walk 4-5 years ago, as your experience would have been different. And I'm afraid that you will not fine that balance of socialising and respect any more. Try another Camino next time, and find yourself, not a "family". It is a lovely thing.

"Find yourself....not a family"-----I love this, @Anemone del Camino

 

[Sailor]

. . . Due to some health concerns I expect to need to use the bus or taxi in some places. I do not consider it cheating, people differ in their health and capabilities . . . .

Thank you for writing this note. Please check my private message.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I don't think it is "cheating" to walk only what you could

I reiterate: cheat - Law: Fraudulent acquisition of another's property; to obtain unfair advantage by trickery, as in a game of cards.

Some are confusing their opinion of how a pilgrimage should be conducted with cheating!

It is quite impossible to walk in a manner that is cheating.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Wow, reading this thread kind of depressed me. My first camino is next April. Due to some health concerns I expect to need to use the bus or taxi in some places. I do not consider it cheating, people differ in their health and capabilities. I would not take the bus and take someone's place in an albergue, but I am limited by my own circumstances. Yes, I am a 70 year old American. I would not ask for a compestela if I do not walk all the way from Sarria. Do people think a pilgrimage is not for me? Feeling sad reading this.

Imsundaze.

Why feel sad, reading this...switch off and make tea
I really would not give the time of day or head space what someone else thinks RE: cheating
It's your camino. I have stood in the pilgrims office and seen with my own eyes those that have done very little walking and collected a Compostela...not unusual now.

seen taxis pull up outside albergues.(muni) and people walk in


I wonder why people have to mind other peoples business on how when and why they walk..Re cheating..Judging has no place on a camino


The camino is about your relationship with the fellow above (not mentioning Religion by saying that) or on a spiritual camino & dealing with whatever is going on in your life.

it has nothing what so ever to do with how far someone walks,how much they carry (you don't have to carry a bag) or where you sleep....taking taxis- taking the bus or using a car like has been seen..
and you certainly do not have to justify your reasons..

it's your camino enjoy.....

 

[CaptBuddy]

Wow, reading this thread kind of depressed me. My first camino is next April. Due to some health concerns I expect to need to use the bus or taxi in some places. I do not consider it cheating, people differ in their health and capabilities. I would not take the bus and take someone's place in an albergue, but I am limited by my own circumstances. Yes, I am a 70 year old American. I would not ask for a compestela if I do not walk all the way from Sarria. Do people think a pilgrimage is not for me? Feeling sad reading this.

I think you'll have a great time and will be able to experience an adventure that takes you out of your comfort zone, to teach you things about the world and yourself.
Don't forget that you can make things easier by using baggage transfer. Walking is so much easier with just a small bag for your valuables.
Last year, on the CF, we met and befriended lots of peregrinos who had decided, after one night, that albergues were not their thing. They were some of the happiest, most joyful pilgrims we met.
Walk what you are able to walk; enjoy the unique people and culture of Northern Spain.
We had to take a bus one day because I was not going to let my wife ruin her knee, and her Camino for no good reason. I can tell you that the bus was full, and everyone on it, everyone, was a peregrino.
Have a great adventure. Don't worry about other folks who don't know you.
Buen Camino.

 

[Arminius]

I do not judge others. Everyone go his own way - path. Pilgrims walking the Camino for various reasons. I'm trying to find myself - for me it is a greedy and healthy break in the stressful life.
I will go reflect with an open mind - self-reflection. Without a predetermined planning - enjoy each day the beauty of "The Camino".

 

[Arlene73]

I also finished on September 10 and had the completely opposite experience. The Camino was everything I wanted it to be. Yes, i was surprised at the huge increase of people after Sarria and at first felt annoyed, but then I let myself go with it. I absolutely found the 'Camino Community'. There were I few people that I got to know quite well and expect to continue a friendship with for a long time, a few that became casual acquaintances, and some that I never spoke to but recognized and exchanged friendly smiles or greetings with.

 

[jhv47]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

Never go in August, nt only the Caminos ae over crowded the rest of Spain as well. We are now living more than 9 years in Spain. In August millions of tourists are coming plus whole Spain has summer holidays. Mostly we leave Spain in tha month due to high temperature and over crowded locatons Great tome for Camino is spring with it's flowers or autumn with it's colours. Now preparing for Camino frances. Starting 26 September and planning to arrive in Santiago de Compostella around 1 November. Then flying back to Valencia. Last year the portugese Camino, bad signing but great route and very vew people. So enjoy your next Camino in anoher period.

 

[wayfarer]

Welcome jhv47, I agree, both these times are perfect for Spain.

 

[Leah C. O'Leary]

Dear Imsundaze,

I start at Sarria on September 29. I'm 69 and dealing with health issues also. I'm planning Sarria to Santiago in 9 days. I was feeling very depressed about all the talk on this blog about fake pilgrims and cheaters. - Those folks on this blog who talk about everyone having their "own pilgrimage" seemed to be outnumbered by those who talk about fake pilgrims and cheating. I was regretting signing up to do this. A lot of contradictory discussions. After feeling very depressed about the physical challenges of "my Camino", and all the talk here about fake pilgrims, when I decided to "f__ it, and do my own Camino, I felt empowered and felt free to call a taxi whenever I decide that my body has had enough.

Another consideration: I work full time and haven't had a vacation in 3 years. That was scheduled to be a 3 week vacation and I had to come home after 1 week with a terrible case of the flu. Couldn't get out of bed for 2 weeks. Yes, this is a pilgrimage for me, but it is also a vacation, truth be told. A lot of folks who do this Walk, are retired or young people with summers off. It makes a difference.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Dear Imsundaze,

I start at Sarria on September 29. I'm 69 and dealing with health issues also. I'm planning Sarria to Santiago in 9 days. I was feeling very depressed about all the talk on this blog about fake pilgrims and cheaters. - Those folks on this blog who talk about everyone having their "own pilgrimage" seemed to be outnumbered by those who talk about fake pilgrims and cheating. I was regretting signing up to do this. A lot of contradictory discussions. After feeling very depressed about the physical challenges of "my Camino", and all the talk here about fake pilgrims, when I decided to "f__ it, and do my own Camino, I felt empowered and felt free to call a taxi whenever I decide that my body has had enough.

Another consideration: I work full time and haven't had a vacation in 3 years. That was scheduled to be a 3 week vacation and I had to come home after 1 week with a terrible case of the flu. Couldn't get out of bed for 2 weeks. Yes, this is a pilgrimage for me, but it is also a vacation, truth be told. A lot of folks who do this Walk, are retired or young people with summers off. It makes a difference.

Leah

This forum represents a very small percentage of those who actually walk the camino.....your meet people who have never seen the film and never heard of a camino forum.....

unless someone here or on the camino can assist-help you or support or aide you in whatever way..then they hinder you and your being judged...
so take from this and other camino forums as much constructive information you need and want and contribute as and when you can in whatever way you can.

Take care of you and enjoy the good this forum has to offer.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Sometimes some of us do need a taxi/bus to help us on some stages of the Camino. That then enables us to walk the final 100kms without transport and with sufficient time to make very short days/stages if needed. Sometimes too we see pilgrims apparently walking the road not 'the route'. This may be because their guide is different to ours and gives different directions in some places (eg. Happens on the Inglés in one particular area) Don't be put off by judgemental attitudes @lmsundaze, walk and be at peace, and hopefully make it possible for yourself to manage the 100kms from Sarria without problem for your Compostela.
Buen Camino

 

[Leah C. O'Leary]

Leah

This forum represents a very small percentage of those who actually walk the camino.....your meet people who have never seen the film and never heard of a camino forum.....

unless someone here or on the camino can assist-help you or support or aide you in whatever way..then they hinder you and your being judged...
so take from this and other camino forums as much constructive information you need and want and contribute as and when you can in whatever way you can.

Take care of you and enjoy the good this forum has to offer.

Thank you for your thoughts and support.
What are the other forums?
Leah

 

[mountaingoat999]

Thank you for your thoughts and support.
What are the other forums?
Leah

pm you now

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Wow, reading this thread kind of depressed me. My first camino is next April. Due to some health concerns I expect to need to use the bus or taxi in some places. I do not consider it cheating, people differ in their health and capabilities. I would not take the bus and take someone's place in an albergue, but I am limited by my own circumstances. Yes, I am a 70 year old American. I would not ask for a compestela if I do not walk all the way from Sarria. Do people think a pilgrimage is not for me? Feeling sad reading this.

Anemone, thank you for your very kind response to my post. I appreciate it very much, and am so glad your foot healed and you were able to complete your camino. That said, I posted that because of health concerns I would need to take a taxi or bus in certain places. I do not feel that I should have to explain to others what are my limitations. This is not aimed at you, but why should pilgrimage be only for the physically healthy? It doesn't feel good to be asked to detail what is my medical condition. I don't think it is "cheating" to walk only what you could while you had plantar fasciitis. What would be cheating, to me, would be to claim to have walked if you had not.

I usually choose to walk with my husband as company in remote parts of Australia and seek out other roads less travelled around the Globe - that's definitely getting more difficult. We walk for weeks, totally self sufficient and often without seeing another person. It was therefore with some trepidation that we set out on the Camino Frances from St Jean Pied de Port this April/May. Having followed this Forum (thank you all for your sage and measured and really useful advice) and done my usual pre-trek due diligence, I had a fair idea that this would be a very different walk. Yes, there were some truly awful moments out of Sarria that I have mentioned previously but we took steps to get out of sync with these groups. A strategy that worked well for us as we had the gift of time. When I was younger I used to resent such antics and people who weren't true walkers disturbing our experience. The years that pass bring counter experiences and revelations. Everyone walks their own path in their own Way. Who can tell, in the long term, what fruits this experience will yield.

We saw some painful sights (and I ended up one!) including pilgrims with significant disabilities for whom each step was an achievement. They humbled me with their focus and determination and the love and loyalty of their compañeros. One blind man walked holding a pole that his friends held at either end while another spoke to him of what was all around him.

Take heart! We were pleasantly surprised by the camaraderie we enjoyed along the Way. This far outweighed any unpleasantness. Pilgrimage is definitely for you and only you - and the Way itself - can decide what form that journey will take.

I do agree with your definition of cheating. To me it was when someone lies to themselves but that really is their problem.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

September has become busier, but does not yet have the crowds of August! May has smaller crowds, but the weather can be worse than September. The advice to avoid August is useful, but that is when many pilgrims have the time to walk. October is the new September! More places are extending their closing dates past October 31 to accommodate the number of pilgrims Albergues close when they cannot pay the heating bill, so as long as the number of pilgrims merits it, they will stay open!

Have pleasurable September walks.

 

[VNwalking]

Leah, you're totally right...and take heart. There are many people here and on the Camino who don't judge others based on whether they intend to walk every inch of the way or not. Speaking for myself...who cares? It's the quality of intention and attitude that someone brings to the walk that counts, that makes them a pilgrim. The walking is merely the embodied form that that heart's wish takes. And if the intention is pure and clear, that doesn't change, taxi or no taxi. (And yes, the physical contact of feet to ground is an important part of the process. But you'll not have any shortage of that...and it's not everything.)

 

[LauraK]

Interesting comments on being "judged" for what you do or don't do as a pilgrim. Some of the people commenting on whether using a bag transport, bus or taxi in addition to other behaviors that they deem "cheating" or unpilgrim-like should know that 10 years ago the same judgements were being made about people that carried a cell phone or other electronic devices. I haven't seen too many pilgrims without a cell phone or repeatedly asking if there is wifi on my recent caminos. Who knows what the pilgrims 10 years from now will think about how we walked our Camino? What judgements might they make?

 

[mountaingoat999]

Interesting comments on being "judged" for what you do or don't do as a pilgrim. Some of the people commenting on whether using a bag transport, bus or taxi in addition to other behaviors that they deem "cheating" or unpilgrim-like should know that 10 years ago the same judgements were being made about people that carried a cell phone or other electronic devices. I haven't seen too many pilgrims without a cell phone or repeatedly asking if there is wifi on my recent caminos. Who knows what the pilgrims 10 years from now will think about how we walked our Camino? What judgements might they make?

Hopefully they won't make any Judgments Laura..

 

[C clearly]

Some of the people commenting on whether using a bag transport, bus or taxi in addition to other behaviors that they deem "cheating" or unpilgrim-like

I haven't seen any comments on this thread suggesting that using bag transport, etc. is "cheating." I have seen the virtually unanimous opinion that it is not nice/admirable to lie or misrepresent oneself.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Would be interesting to have a list of things that could be considered cheating and see how people would vote. For example, is ot ok to have a driving buddy get to the albergue early in the day and "reserve" beds for the walking friends?

And can someone please remind me why Gaucelmo does not admot people who have not carried their bags ipunless they have the equivalent of a "doctor's note". I know someone told me on this forum but I cannot remember. What are hospitaleros taught in their teaining about what constitutes cheating, if anything ( or what guidelines are given as they start their volunteering stint)?

 

[VNwalking]

There have been a number of posts already--that C clearly refers to--that define cheating very clearly, and it has nothing to do with walking or not walking.
This just shows the underlying assumption many have that pilgrimage has to be made on foot all the way.
Yes, usually it is, and if it's physically possible for someone to to do that, it can be an amazingly transformative experience.
And Anemone gave very good advice, actually--do what you can on foot, and take your time.

The whole 'cheating' thing? In my experience it's often even more of a self-judgement than it is judgement directed at others. I can countenance others taking the bus much more easily and gently than I treat myself for wanting to do so. Many of us have this idea (even if we intellectually and rationally know otherwise) that to not walk is to wimp out, to 'cheat'. Maybe. But not necessarily. That's why it needs reflection and introspection. Do I just want to stop because it's uncomfortable, or do I really need to stop?

There's a big difference between wanting and needing.
Discerning that difference, and then overcoming internal judgements and stereotypes if one makes a 'mistake' is a huge part of the journey.

 

[VNwalking]

Would be interesting to have a list of things that could be considered cheating and see how people would vote.

Perhaps, perhaps...make a poll and see what we all think.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Perhaps, perhaps...make a poll and see what we all think.

Supply me with more situations to vote on! .

 

[C clearly]

Would be interesting to have a list of things that could be considered cheating and see how people would vote.

I vote for no poll.

I get tired of reading about whether other people are cheating, and whether other people are judging, and whether people are judging the cheaters, or cheating the judges.

 

[Mycamino Maya]

I vote for no poll.

I get tired of reading about whether other people are cheating, and whether other people are judging, and whether people are judging the cheaters, or cheating the judges.

Well said C clearly. Everyone treks their own camino.

 

[SabsP]

Oh please no poll. Polls are merely a heap of opinions. IMHO it leads to nothing. And like I said earlier here and on other threads : if I feel that I'm doing what I think is right for me on a particular occasion/ in a situation then it is right. And in the meantime I don't try to hurt or hinder/ judge other pilgrims/ people.

 

[Thornley]

Are the young spanish required to have a ""Compostela"" in their CV ??????

Was told by a very experienced owner of an albergue that this is the case.

It is why we never go near the last 100km and
If anyone is repeating please
Turn LEFT @ Ponferrada and do The Invierno
or
Primitivo and from Lugo get the bus to SDC then continue walk to Muxia.
AND
You do not NEED a certificate for any reason.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Do I just want to stop because it's uncomfortable, or do I really need to stop? There's a big difference between wanting and needing.Discerning that difference, and then overcoming internal judgements and stereotypes if one makes a 'mistake' is a huge part of the journey.

You make an excellent point. There is nothing but discomfort for me when I walk the Camino, even on this last walk on the Primitivo where I finally had orthotics, the correct orthotics and no fasciitis. Every step or just about is a struggle since I am far from fit. And my days are long, because even I move my feet at the same rythm as others, because lf my short legs I do not cover ground like others. But isn't the point of a pilgrimage to make some sort of sacrifice? At 10€ a bed surely the sacrifice or effort is not economical for most who do it so the least I feel I can do is sacrifice comfort and not quit when it's only uncomfortable.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I vote for no poll.

I get tired of reading about whether other people are cheating, and whether other people are judging, and whether people are judging the cheaters, or cheating the judges.

Where did the sense of humour go? ;0)

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Are the young spanish required to have a ""Compostela"" in their CV ??????

Was told by a very experienced owner of an albergue that this is the case.

It is why we never go near the last 100km and
If anyone is repeating please
Turn LEFT @ Ponferrada and do The Invierno
or
Primitivo and from Lugo get the bus to SDC then continue walk to Muxia.
AND
You do not NEED a certificate for any reason.

Absolutely not. It's just a school trip some schools offer. Just imagine if they were all out there! Some claim it gives an otherwise empty CV something to talk about when it comes to experience at that age, but not at all mandatory. Noone in my family has walked it, not those my age, nor their children.

 

[C clearly]

Where did the sense of humour go? ;0)

I actually figured you had in mind a poll with ridiculous criteria for being labelled a pilgrim. However, I expect that someone would take it seriously and then we'd be onto a discussion about how awful the people on this forum are!

 

[CaptBuddy]

OK, I can settle this.
I have the 2016 Pro Edition of the Camino de Santiago Rule Book right here on my desk (English Version).
Let's see, simply put, to qualify for a Compostela from the Cathedral in Santiago, a person must walk from at least 100 km away, or ride a bike from 200 km away, and do so for a religious or spiritual reason. Hmm, apparently, if you don't want a Compostela, there are no specific rules.
It does suggest that you act like Christ and try not to judge others you encounter on the path, but help whomever you can with some compassion and kindness.

That seems to be it. Sleeping or carrying crap is a personal choice. As is what a person does with their life prior to those distances.
Oh wait, I thought there was something about trekking poles but I was reading it incorrectly.

Buen Camino

 

[Thornley]

Absolutely not. It's just a school trip some schools offer. Just imagine if they were all out there! Some claim it gives an otherwise empty CV something to talk about when it comes to experience at that age, but not at all mandatory. Noone in my family has walked it, not those my age, nor their children.

Absolutely not ????
I am not talking about SCHOOL age but university or post aged kids.
I am talking about what employers in Spain who have walked the camino might/could expect .
I will not name the albergue owner but he has run/owned a very famous one for many, many years.
I think he hears what the kids express.

 

[LauraK]

Hopefully they won't make any Judgments Laura..

Agreed!

 

[LauraK]

I haven't seen any comments on this thread suggesting that using bag transport, etc. is "cheating." I have seen the virtually unanimous opinion that it is not nice/admirable to lie or misrepresent oneself.

No one did...just my silly sense of humor (sarcasm) that we shouldn't judge lest we be judged!

 

[Bala]

[QUOTE="C clearly, post: 344032, member: 1589 I expect that someone would take it seriously and then we'd be onto a discussion about how awful the people on this forum are![/QUOTE]

Too true, I'm afraid!

 

[MTtoCamino]

Dear Imsundaze,

I start at Sarria on September 29. I'm 69 and dealing with health issues also. I'm planning Sarria to Santiago in 9 days. I was feeling very depressed about all the talk on this blog about fake pilgrims and cheaters. - Those folks on this blog who talk about everyone having their "own pilgrimage" seemed to be outnumbered by those who talk about fake pilgrims and cheating. I was regretting signing up to do this. A lot of contradictory discussions. After feeling very depressed about the physical challenges of "my Camino", and all the talk here about fake pilgrims, when I decided to "f__ it, and do my own Camino, I felt empowered and felt free to call a taxi whenever I decide that my body has had enough.

Another consideration: I work full time and haven't had a vacation in 3 years. That was scheduled to be a 3 week vacation and I had to come home after 1 week with a terrible case of the flu. Couldn't get out of bed for 2 weeks. Yes, this is a pilgrimage for me, but it is also a vacation, truth be told. A lot of folks who do this Walk, are retired or young people with summers off. It makes a difference.

You hit the nail, let others live with negativity no one can make the journey for us. We make it as it is possible.
Buen Camino
Keith

 

[Tia Valeria]

Humour (IMO) doesn't always come over in plain text . It needs a and a so that it reads as humour.
So keep

 

[TerryB]

I read Tony's post nodding my head in agreement, "been there, seen that". . . . .
Tony, the CF has become a circus, but surely these days that is well known. And these days there is contradiction between wanting a family and relationships and peace and quiet. I am just sorry you did not walk 4-5 years ago, as your experience would have been different. And I'm afraid that you will not fine that balance of socialising and respect any more. Try another Camino next time, and find yourself, not a "family". It is a lovely thing.

One thing that I have learned about the Camino is "Do not set your heart on the way that it is going to be!" If you go expecting / hoping to find a close knit "Camino Family" you may well end up disappointed. If you go with an open heart and mind, willing to share experiences and willing to help others if and when needed, then you will be enriched.
Looking back I am not sure that things have changed all that much on the last stretches of the Francés. I wrote this after my first Camino in 2009 obviously feeling the isolation as I joined the "circus":-

Melide heralds a change of life
and pace on this pilgrimage.
Here there are crowds
All heading westward.
Some with heads bowed down
Concerned now only with food and rest.
Some with a spring in their step
Their sole concern their destination,
Santiago de Compostela.
And this stranger pilgrim,
Drifting down from off the Primitivo,
Is unknown to all, who
Have found companions and friends
On the long road from Roncesvalles
And beyond.

A Blessing on all Pilgrims as we walk together on the Camino of Life
Tio Tel

 

[richeyboy]

Congratulations, Tony, it looks as though you have received one of the greatest gifts that the camino can bestow: that of seeing life as it actually is. The fog of fantasy, assumption, prejudice and judgementalism has been rubbed from your eyes it seems and it is obviously quite a shock, as it was to me when I first did it. Now you can settle down and recall all the good things, which the bad always go out of their way to mask or destroy even, and you will be astonished how many miracles you witnessed. So now the camino really begins!

 

[naplesdon]

My first Camino in 2011 was a blessing because I had no expectations or training prior to leaving SJPdP.
My third Camino in 2013 was even better than number one after walking from Porto to Santiago.
My fourth Camino in 2014 even got better walking from SJPdP to SDC.
My fifth Camino in 2015 was greater than all the other combined walking from Oloron to Logrono, working for 2 weeks at San Anton and then walking from Burgos to Astorga and Ferrol to SDC.
My second Camino in 2012 was a disaster because I had set my expectation too high.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Humour (IMO) doesn't always come over in plain text . It needs a and a so that it reads as humour.
So keep

Wish I could add them like I did before but it seems they are getting edited out because I type them, see them, but then when I go back to my posts they vanish. Guess they are "too graphic for this forum" :0), So back to the good old ;0( and see if these also get censored.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Absolutely not ????
I am not talking about SCHOOL age but university or post aged kids.
I am talking about what employers in Spain who have walked the camino might/could expect .
I will not name the albergue owner but he has run/owned a very famous one for many, many years.
I think he hears what the kids express.

Same answer, absolutely not. Even for univeristy students, after all, you don't see them on the trail unless they are unemployed, do you? The ones who are talented enough and lucky enough to get a job in this economy go straight to work.

Perhaps the best source of information are actual Spanish families and young adults, not someone who may be expressing wishfull thinking. He perhaps only hears what those who end up in his albergue were told or think they were told and not reality. Employers in Spain want what employers all over the world want: smart, educated, hard working and disciplined young people who can do they job they have been hired to do while developping to take on more responsabilty as the employer invests in them. I would think that taking part in Erasmus would show a lot more about a prospective young employee that walking for 4 days with a bunch of friends.

And you didn't ask "what do employers that have walked the Camino expect from the young they could be hiring" you asked "are young Spaniards required to have a Compostela in their CVs" and the answer in no. Just ask the people whom you meet on the Camino and ask them if their kids have done it or will. Just look around you as you walk and see how many are Spanish youth? Ask the lady, who thinks we are all nuts for doing this, if her children have done it. Is she thinks we're nuts, chances are her kids have not done it nor are plannig to.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I actually figured you had in mind a poll with ridiculous criteria for being labelled a pilgrim. However, I expect that someone would take it seriously and then we'd be onto a discussion about how awful the people on this forum are!

No!!!! And I was not the one who suggested a poll. I was asking about cheating when having a driving friend drive off in the AM to reserve beds for the walking friends would be considered cheating, pilgrimage or not. One thing I know about this practice is that it doesn't show much respect for those who are making an effort to walk from point a to point b. You know these people think they have gotten their cake and are eating it as well, or else they would not be doing it. In albergues where there is an hospitalero on site, would the hospitalero allow this? Would the hospitalero give the driver 5 or 6 beds for his buddies?

Oh but wait, it's their Camino and they can do whatever they want, I forgot.

The Camino works based on the generosity of others, generosity offered in implicit exchange for sharing into common values of pilgrimage: respect being one of them. It did not magically appear for people looking for a cheap holiday to come and take advantage of others' time, kindness and ressources. So if you show contempt for the efforts made by those walking by sending your friend by car to secure you a 10€ bed, I will judge and say you are not sharing into values of any pilgrimage.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Wish I could add them like I did before but it seems they are getting edited out because I type them, see them, but then when I go back to my posts they vanish. Guess they are "too graphic for this forum" :0), So back to the good old ;0( and see if these also get censored.

I use the icon at the top of the posts to show all the emoticons rather than typing the smile etc. Are you using a phone and not a computer? Maybe Ivar can help.

 

[Icacos]

In 2013 in the big, 5-or-6 floor albergue in Burgos the hospitaleros would not let us reserve a bed for our cousin who was to arrive by bus later that day to join us and begin her Camino - no matter how much we pleaded and tried to reason with them. However, a couple hours later after we had met with this cousin and were with her when she checked in, we were delighted to see that her assigned bunk was right next to ours. It appeared that the hospitaleros, out of the goodness of their hearts, had kept a bed spare next to us so that we three could all be together. I have my doubts though that had the albergue filled up before our cousin arrived, whether she would have got any bed at all.

 

[grayland]

I use the icon at the top of the posts to show all the emoticons rather than typing the smile etc. Are you using a phone and not a computer? Maybe Ivar can help.

@anemone. Tia Valeria is right. Using the emotions on the menu just above your reply should work.

Rest assured that no one is "censoring" your use of them. Please take a look at "rule 7" of the forum rules. Thanks.

 

[Leah C. O'Leary]

Leah, you're totally right...and take heart. There are many people here and on the Camino who don't judge others based on whether they intend to walk every inch of the way or not. Speaking for myself...who cares? It's the quality of intention and attitude that someone brings to the walk that counts, that makes them a pilgrim. The walking is merely the embodied form that that heart's wish takes. And if the intention is pure and clear, that doesn't change, taxi or no taxi. (And yes, the physical contact of feet to ground is an important part of the process. But you'll not have any shortage of that...and it's not everything.)

Thank you for your kind response - encouraging
Leah

 

[LauraK]

@Anemone del Camino: Grayland is right. I was having the same problem (emoticons not showing up) and realized that I was using the emoticon button on my keyboard (iPad/iPhone) and not the emoticon that shows up across the top of the reply box. If you use the one on your keyboard, you see them in your response but once you hit "post reply" they disappear. Hope this helps.

 

[mountaingoat999]

In 2013 in the big, 5-or-6 floor albergue in Burgos the hospitaleros would not let us reserve a bed for our cousin who was to arrive by bus later that day to join us and begin her Camino - no matter how much we pleaded and tried to reason with them. However, a couple hours later after we had met with this cousin and were with her when she checked in, we were delighted to see that her assigned bunk was right next to ours. It appeared that the hospitaleros, out of the goodness of their hearts, had kept a bed spare next to us so that we three could all be together. I have my doubts though that had the albergue filled up before our cousin arrived, whether she would have got any bed at all.

50/50 with the albergue you mentioned.....it is also not for the exclusive use of pilgrims..it can also fill very quickly....then its first come first served

 

[Jacobus]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

Could someone please post the list of rules that govern the Camino? I am seeing some terms bandied about here that have no basis in reality. In fact it appears that if someone fails to walk the Camino according to this phantom set of rules they are to be considered less a pilgrim than someone who knows the phantom rules. So will those of you who know them please share?
Until I see this list of rules published by the Spanish Government or UNESCO or the Catholic Church then I can only conclude they don't exist in the real world.
Perhaps they are contained in Emaraud? The Bible? The Spanish Constitution? A Papal decree? Please help me to know them so that as I prepare for my 8th Camino I too can pass judgement on random groups of age appropriate pilgrims!

With tongue firmly planted in cheek I wish you all a buen Camino.

 

[C clearly]

Could someone please post the list of rules that govern the Camino?

I can only conclude they don't exist in the real world.

We have had this question/challenge and this correct conclusion many times. The only rule concerns the issuing of the compostela - 100 km walk or 200 km bicycle to arrive at the Cathedral. There is no rule that you need to be nice or virtuous, to get the compostela. Neither is there a rule that you are not allowed to get annoyed with bag rustlers or liars. People keep getting upset that other people don't have exactly the same opinions of what is proper/nice/acceptable behaviour on the camino, and they sometimes are surprised to encounter flawed human beings on the camino, and even on this forum!

 

[VNwalking]

Could someone please post the list of rules that govern the Camino?...
Until I see this list of rules published by the Spanish Government or UNESCO or the Catholic Church then I can only conclude they don't exist in the real world.

Exactly, thanks for the chuckle, jacobus.
We take ourselves far too seriously sometimes...with fixed views, and being certain of one's view is the same as ultimate truth.
Hee hee. Well, maybe I'm wrong about that too; perhaps somewhere out there there's is a set of tablets somewhere for a Peregrina/o 'Moses' to discover, and maybe there IS an absolute truth about Camino 'rules'? (Tongue also planted in cheek...)

People ... sometimes are surprised to encounter flawed human beings on the camino, and even on this forum!

Really?
(Thank you C clearly, exactly...)

Speaking as one such 'work in progress,' rather than as a perfected being, I prefer not to throw stones...my little glass house is too vulnerable to breakage...
And as Biarritzdon describes so succinctly, expectation of experiences, of others, and of ourselves creates a lot of unnecessary suffering.
No thanks on that too.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

Unfortunately what you experienced on your Camino you could also experience at the Louvre, Piccadilly Square, Vatican Square, anywhere. I have walked the English and short Portuguese Camino to date. I am walking the French Way next April. All my Caminos were walked during the "shoulder season". Other than my friend getting his pocket picked outside the Prado in Madrid I have met nothing but wonderful people.

When you are on the Camino and sleeping a dorms your are dealing with people from all over the world. They will have different customs and views on behavior. What is rude to you may be normal and acceptable to them. Dorm living requires tolerance, patients and understanding. For what its worth, I am a older American and I can assure you, I do not jump off the top bunk. If I did, I would not stop until my butt hit the floor.

About the Benzadine, is that a liquid adhesive that you paint on ruptured blisters. I know it a Tincture of Benzoin. Can you buy is in Europe? Buen Camino

Happy Trails