elbosterix
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- Time of past OR future Camino
- April/May 23 (French)
Feb/March 24 (Portugues)
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518 grams is pretty heavy. Have you considered a lightweight down or synthetic down jacket instead? The Patagonia Nano Puff jacket is only 337 grams, while their AlpLight Down jacket is only 270 grams. Or you could save some money and buy this 280 gram down jacket from Decathlon.
Also, if you aren't used to wearing merino try it out at home. I have a friend who took all merino tops and socks on the Camino only to find out that she was slightly allergic to it.
I am one who can not wear any wool, even softer merino or cashmere. Interesting though; I do not have a problem when wearing wool socks.Also, if you aren't used to wearing merino try it out at home. I have a friend who took all merino tops and socks on the Camino only to find out that she was slightly allergic to it.
I walk in the same climate! At home, for 6 months of the year, I wear a slightly heavier showerproof jacket that is a bit too bulky and heavy to take on the Camino. (More flexible on the Camino to substitute a lighter weight rain shell and a light long-sleeve layer.) However, like you, I use the layering of buff, hat and gloves - donning and doffing them several time every day.I walk so much in our cold, rainy, ever fluctuating weather, that I think I’ve worked ‘layering up’ almost into an art form.
That's one reason why I wear a sleeveless feather-weight merino tank top like an undershirt, every day. It also soaks up the sweat during the day, and is very easy to wash at night, so I don't need to wash the other layers as often.it's best to have warm layers which can be removed without undue nudity on the trail!
Thankfully that Camino out of Barcelona was a lonely route.I guessed wrong I would be showing some skin for a bit while swapping shirts.
I do the same as you, but no merino. It definitely saves washing the outer layers as often.That's one reason why I wear a sleeveless feather lightweight merino tank top like an undershirt, every day. It also soaks up the sweat during the day, and is very easy to wash at night, so I don't need to wash the other layers as often.
Some of the Icebreaker feather-weight items are a merino-synthetic mix. I prefer this for the very light layers since it is more durable and can be washed with no worries. (100% merino is more susceptible to small holes.)I’ve noticed no itchiness in icebreaker merino
Ha, I’ve noticed at least one hole. That’s when Fray Check comes in handy!(100% merino is more susceptible to small holes.)
I had to google that. I had never heard of it, perhaps because I sew and do most of my mending by old-fashioned sewing. I have also used various types of glue. But this looks worth trying. Is it inobtrusive and flexible when dry?That’s when Fray Check comes in handy!
I think it shows a bit more on darker fabric, but I only use it as a stopgap until I can get down to a proper job of mending; I’ve never used it on a big job. I find it a handy item to have on hand to keep anything from fraying.Is it inobtrusive and flexible when dry?
By 'vest', do you mean like a singlet (UK usage) or a kind of gilet/waistcoat thingy (US usage)? My suggestion would be:Dear fellow caminantes,
I'm starting my frist Camino Frances on April 5th from Roncesvalles.
I've been overwhelmed by the amount of info on clothing, gear, etc. and given I'm not someone who enjoys the cold, I'd appreciate your guidance/advice if I'm on the right track here, I have just purchased a few items and would love to hear if you think I need to add a spare or ditch/swap for something else:
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino long sleeve base layer (200)
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino short sleeve 150
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino Vest
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino Long Sleeve Zip Hoodie (I'm worried about this one as it weights 518 grams)
According to my understanding after all I've read in this incredible forum, I should probably get a spare long sleeve (maybe lighter weight) and a spare short sleeve, would that be right?
And also a rain jacket or a poncho.
Am I missing anything for the top?
Thanks for your invaluable guidance!
Cheers,
Mariano
Thanks for your suggestions. I have added another long-sleeve base layerI think you’re missing a lightweight insulation layer. Trecile’s suggestions are all good. The base layers are all fine but (as much in the evening as when physically active) you may find that April can be cool as well as wet.
One extra long-sleeve base-layer would facilitate periodic laundry. You can roll long sleeves up, you can’t roll short sleeves down.
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I appreciate your time, I'm sure you've been through these kind of questions a million times.My approach would best be described as four-layer, which is relatively common in Australian hiking conditions. It comprises:
To return to the OP, I typically start a colder day with three layers - base, mid and outer. If it gets really cold, I will add an insulating layer, either at the start or during the day. Walking the CF in early Apr on my first camino, the conditions got so cold that I added a fifth layer using a base layer tee-shirt. After a couple of hours, it warmed up enough to take that off. Would it have been possible to keep going with just four layers? Possibly, but it was much more comfortable having the extra warmth.
- Base layer. normally a wicking synthetic or wool blend tee-shirt. I avoid polypropylene which is known to react badly to sweat, and start to smell.
- Mid layer. Normally a trekking shirt or a knit long sleeve top. This combines a couple of things. Sun protection and some wind protection. It won't stop stronger winds, but is sufficient for light conditions in warm weather.
- Other than underpants, I generally wear trekking trousers as my mid layer bottoms, and I then don't wear an insulating layer. If I know that I am going to walk in cold conditions, I have a couple of pairs of trousers made with a slightly thicker stretch fabric similar to a soft-shell material. They provide enough extra insulation most of the time, and if I need more, I will put on my rain-pants.
- I have worn full length thermals, and they might be needed in winter, but I haven't found them useful in other seasons on the camino.
- Insulation layer. A 1/4 zip fleece jumper or down jacket. I have fleece jumpers in a variety of weights but tend to use a fairly light weight material unless walking in winter. I haven't taken a down jacket on the Camino, but I do have a reasonably light one that would be suitable should I want to do that.
- Outer layer. I have tried a number of different wind and water resistant garments over the years with varying degrees of success. Gear that has worked well in cold, windy and wet conditions has not worked well when it has been warmer, and vice versa. I prefer a jacket that comes to at least mid-thigh.
- I have taken full three-layer rain-pants in the past, but tend to use much lighter gear for spring and summer. Only in colder conditions would I revert to heavier rain-pants.
One of the reasons for starting the day with an outer layer is to keep out any morning breeze. I have found that a fleece offers little protection against even a light breeze, and it is more comfortable to walk without the chilling effect of the breeze on cold mornings. A down jacket will also work as a wind-protection and insulating layer.
Edit: hat, gloves and a buff or other form of neck warmer in cool conditions, or a 'cool scarf' in the heat.
Thank you so much for taking the time. Appreciate your detailed explanation and putting it in layman terms for us newbiesLayers are not defined by name of the garment, they are defined by how you wear them.
Additionally, all garments used for layering come in all sorts of thicknesses - often referred to by terms like: Lightweight, midweight, heavy weight,. These terms help identify if a garment is better to use during seasons of hot temps, mild temps, or colder temps.
The three defined layers are:
1. Inner layer. It is also referred to as the Skin Layer. I always have two of these shirts; the one I wear and an extra in the backpack.
This is the layer that sits closest to your skin. Its primary job is to wick sweat away from your skin. It's secondary purpose is to contribute as best it can to warmth, but that contribution is often minimal. The primary material used in this shirt that functions the best is a poly-synthetic, like the material used in the Patagonia Capilene shirts (there are a number of similar shirts made from a poly-synthetic fabric). The other material that works best is a merino wool fabric. Smartwool is an example of a manufacturer that designs shirts using merino wool for backpackers/Pilgrims.
It's not just cold weather where long sleeved shirts are of benefit as an Inner Layer. In mild to hot temperatures the Inner Layer is often the only layer you wear. Often these garments will come in thicknesses that match a given temperature range. This works to help with both hot or cold weather.
When only wearing an inner layer because of warm to hot temperatures, an inner Layer with long sleeves acts to protect the skin on your arms from the effects of direct radiation of the sun's UV and infrared radiation, preventing sunburn. This is also helps keep you cooler. Long sleeves do not allow the skin to bake in infrared heat. This is one strategy of desert dwellers to help stay cooler.
I never take short sleeves shirts because I want long sleeves to help keep me warm or cool as needed. If I want shorter sleeves, I just push the long sleeves up to expose of my forearm below the elbows.
The inner layer is often presentable on its own to wear casually as a shirt when dining, shopping, church.
2. Mid Layer. Also referred to as the Insulating Layer, its primary function is to trap heat and keep you warm. What you use as a Mid Layer dependent on the season of use and also the lowest average temperature likely to be encountered.
An example of this is the middle of the Fall season. Sometimes it will be warm to even hot, but it will also be chilly to the point of an early morning frost and stay mildly chilly all day. For this season, I prefer using a down vest like this one by Cotopaxi.
***See below prior to any "wet down is bad" comments
With a down vest, I get the best weight to warmth ratio, a highly compactable garment, and when combined with the long sleeves of an inner layer shirt (or shirts, if needed) get the core body warmth I need while providing good protection to my arms.
If I were to choose a long sleeved Mid Layer instead, it would be a very lightweight down jacket/Puffy.
The colder the Season, then it is a puffy jacket with a hood and heavier down fill. If I were to use a synthetic hoody, then I would use something like the Patagonia R1 Air. Or if a Fleece, something similar to the Rab Capacitor Fleece Hoody.
If Temperatures are just a bit chilly but not rainy, then an Inner Layer and Mid Layer is all you need to wear.
3. Outer Layer aka the Weather Layer. The primary purpose of this layer is to protect your inner layer from getting wet. In cold winter weather, it protects from letting snow melt on you and soaking your inner layers, as well as adding warmth.
For most pilgrims walking during Spring thru Fall, rain is the weather protection focus. And in this discussion, will be the most polarizing of what to use. . . Poncho vs. Rain jackets-Pants.
In the category of Pro's and Con's, I will let those who strongly prefer Rain Jackets to list their reasons, as I am biased toward Ponchos. Why?
A poncho is also far more easily deployed. Since I can pull it out of the side pocket of my backpack and slip it on over my backpack, I do not even have to stop. I usually do pause for the ten seconds it takes to put on, though, because I am a bit clumsyI never need to take my backpack off, put on a rain jacket, then put the backpack back on.
This is a huge factor for me when it rains because as is often the case, rain will be sporadic: it will rain off and on during the walk. Periodic sprinkles and showers can eat up a lot of time and energy with a rain jacket IF you take the rain jacket off and put it back on based on the immediate conditions.
With a poncho, I can respond to conditions within seconds. I can whip off the poncho as soon as the rain has slowed or stopped, and not question "should I wait to see if it starts back up?" Removing the poncho as needed keeps condensation inside the poncho way down.
A poncho can work equally as well, and even more flexibly, as a temporary outer layer. The same quickness to deploy and remove a poncho works well in trying to avoid unexpected wind chill. And if the morning is cool as I start to walk, but I know I will be warm after a short walk, simply putting the poncho on for a few minutes and then whipping it off works well to avoid overheating.
On the aesthetics side, rain jackets do have the edge. . . depending on how important is the form as a factor with regard to function.
And ponchos are far more multitasking than a rain jacket.
- A shelter lean-to. A bit of cord and trekking poles make it even more independent in setting up.
- A sun shelter, it can be rigged up to provide you shade in hot climates.
- Ground cloth: Under a tent, or a survival shelter, a poncho can protect you from the damp ground. If you are in a cold damp climate, this can help you stay warm.
- Wind Break: While a poncho without the liner does not have much insulating qualities, you will be warmer if you wrap up in the poncho in windy weather, this will help protect you from wind chill.
- Privacy -- great emergency privacy screen when needing to do some 'elimination' business and natural coverage of bushes or tall grass is scarce. It also works when needing to change pants or shorts.
- Sit pad. When taking a break and sitting surfaces are damp.
- Mattress cover.
- Can make an emergency backpack or carryall.
- Windshell to add a bit of extra warmth to layers. Great for cool, early mornings when you need something that can be quickly removed after you have warmed up from walking.
- etc
Hopefully this can be helpful to you and others.
*** For those concerned about the loss of insulation if down gets wet or damp, a lot has changed in the last 5 years. Most down or feather insulation undergoes a hydrophobic treatment. This means that it works when damp or wet, because the down and feathers tend to just shed the water or water vapor your body produces. It works quite well, actually.
I have tested this on various garments from vests to parkas, as well as sleeping bags and backpacking quilts. I did this by dunking them into water and squishing the trapped air out while the garment was under the water. Then I removed the garment, wrung out the water as best I could, and put it on to see how much warmth is retained. This was either done in the dead of winter at a snow camp near a high mountain lake where I could bust the ice to get to the water. Or it was done in the dishwashing sink belonging to a butcher I know that let me 'borrow' his walk-in freezer kept at minus 20F / minus 29C.
Thanks for the reminder that I can use my poncho as a privacy screen when tree coverage is not available. Another reason...Layers are not defined by name of the garment, they are defined by how you wear them.
Additionally, all garments used for layering come in all sorts of thicknesses - often referred to by terms like: Lightweight, midweight, heavy weight,. These terms help identify if a garment is better to use during seasons of hot temps, mild temps, or colder temps.
The three defined layers are:
1. Inner layer. It is also referred to as the Skin Layer. I always have two of these shirts; the one I wear and an extra in the backpack.
This is the layer that sits closest to your skin. Its primary job is to wick sweat away from your skin. It's secondary purpose is to contribute as best it can to warmth, but that contribution is often minimal. The primary material used in this shirt that functions the best is a poly-synthetic, like the material used in the Patagonia Capilene shirts (there are a number of similar shirts made from a poly-synthetic fabric). The other material that works best is a merino wool fabric. Smartwool is an example of a manufacturer that designs shirts using merino wool for backpackers/Pilgrims.
It's not just cold weather where long sleeved shirts are of benefit as an Inner Layer. In mild to hot temperatures the Inner Layer is often the only layer you wear. Often these garments will come in thicknesses that match a given temperature range. This works to help with both hot or cold weather.
When only wearing an inner layer because of warm to hot temperatures, an inner Layer with long sleeves acts to protect the skin on your arms from the effects of direct radiation of the sun's UV and infrared radiation, preventing sunburn. This is also helps keep you cooler. Long sleeves do not allow the skin to bake in infrared heat. This is one strategy of desert dwellers to help stay cooler.
I never take short sleeves shirts because I want long sleeves to help keep me warm or cool as needed. If I want shorter sleeves, I just push the long sleeves up to expose of my forearm below the elbows.
The inner layer is often presentable on its own to wear casually as a shirt when dining, shopping, church.
2. Mid Layer. Also referred to as the Insulating Layer, its primary function is to trap heat and keep you warm. What you use as a Mid Layer dependent on the season of use and also the lowest average temperature likely to be encountered.
An example of this is the middle of the Fall season. Sometimes it will be warm to even hot, but it will also be chilly to the point of an early morning frost and stay mildly chilly all day. For this season, I prefer using a down vest like this one by Cotopaxi.
***See below prior to any "wet down is bad" comments
With a down vest, I get the best weight to warmth ratio, a highly compactable garment, and when combined with the long sleeves of an inner layer shirt (or shirts, if needed) get the core body warmth I need while providing good protection to my arms.
If I were to choose a long sleeved Mid Layer instead, it would be a very lightweight down jacket/Puffy.
The colder the Season, then it is a puffy jacket with a hood and heavier down fill. If I were to use a synthetic hoody, then I would use something like the Patagonia R1 Air. Or if a Fleece, something similar to the Rab Capacitor Fleece Hoody.
If Temperatures are just a bit chilly but not rainy, then an Inner Layer and Mid Layer is all you need to wear.
3. Outer Layer aka the Weather Layer. The primary purpose of this layer is to protect your inner layer from getting wet. In cold winter weather, it protects from letting snow melt on you and soaking your inner layers, as well as adding warmth.
For most pilgrims walking during Spring thru Fall, rain is the weather protection focus. And in this discussion, will be the most polarizing of what to use. . . Poncho vs. Rain jackets-Pants.
In the category of Pro's and Con's, I will let those who strongly prefer Rain Jackets to list their reasons, as I am biased toward Ponchos. Why?
A poncho is also far more easily deployed. Since I can pull it out of the side pocket of my backpack and slip it on over my backpack, I do not even have to stop. I usually do pause for the ten seconds it takes to put on, though, because I am a bit clumsyI never need to take my backpack off, put on a rain jacket, then put the backpack back on.
This is a huge factor for me when it rains because as is often the case, rain will be sporadic: it will rain off and on during the walk. Periodic sprinkles and showers can eat up a lot of time and energy with a rain jacket IF you take the rain jacket off and put it back on based on the immediate conditions.
With a poncho, I can respond to conditions within seconds. I can whip off the poncho as soon as the rain has slowed or stopped, and not question "should I wait to see if it starts back up?" Removing the poncho as needed keeps condensation inside the poncho way down.
A poncho can work equally as well, and even more flexibly, as a temporary outer layer. The same quickness to deploy and remove a poncho works well in trying to avoid unexpected wind chill. And if the morning is cool as I start to walk, but I know I will be warm after a short walk, simply putting the poncho on for a few minutes and then whipping it off works well to avoid overheating.
On the aesthetics side, rain jackets do have the edge. . . depending on how important is the form as a factor with regard to function.
And ponchos are far more multitasking than a rain jacket.
- A shelter lean-to. A bit of cord and trekking poles make it even more independent in setting up.
- A sun shelter, it can be rigged up to provide you shade in hot climates.
- Ground cloth: Under a tent, or a survival shelter, a poncho can protect you from the damp ground. If you are in a cold damp climate, this can help you stay warm.
- Wind Break: While a poncho without the liner does not have much insulating qualities, you will be warmer if you wrap up in the poncho in windy weather, this will help protect you from wind chill.
- Privacy -- great emergency privacy screen when needing to do some 'elimination' business and natural coverage of bushes or tall grass is scarce. It also works when needing to change pants or shorts.
- Sit pad. When taking a break and sitting surfaces are damp.
- Mattress cover.
- Can make an emergency backpack or carryall.
- Windshell to add a bit of extra warmth to layers. Great for cool, early mornings when you need something that can be quickly removed after you have warmed up from walking.
- etc
Hopefully this can be helpful to you and others.
*** For those concerned about the loss of insulation if down gets wet or damp, a lot has changed in the last 5 years. Most down or feather insulation undergoes a hydrophobic treatment. This means that it works when damp or wet, because the down and feathers tend to just shed the water or water vapor your body produces. It works quite well, actually.
I have tested this on various garments from vests to parkas, as well as sleeping bags and backpacking quilts. I did this by dunking them into water and squishing the trapped air out while the garment was under the water. Then I removed the garment, wrung out the water as best I could, and put it on to see how much warmth is retained. This was either done in the dead of winter at a snow camp near a high mountain lake where I could bust the ice to get to the water. Or it was done in the dishwashing sink belonging to a butcher I know that let me 'borrow' his walk-in freezer kept at minus 20F / minus 29C.
Runners question. I have a v old zip-up running vest/gilet - wind and slightly water resistant - that I wear all through the spring and fall (Canada) for windy or rainy runs. I thought I might bring it as my mid-layer for over merino tee short or long sleeve. It is really light and could save me from bringing a fleece or another base. Your thoughts? Then maybe some arm warmers...As per @trecile 's advice, Merino isn't everyone's favourite for next to the skin. Also, during days which start cold but get hot, it's best to have warm layers which can be removed without undue nudity on the trail!
When I'm not cycling or hiking, I'm also a distance runner. These days every event I enter seems to offer a logo'd 'technical' t-shirt as part of the entry package - usually made of woven polyester, offering a degree of breathability. So these days, for Spring, Summer and Autumn hiking I wear one of these T shirts as a base layer. In winter too, but I add a merino 'baselayer' on top of the t-shirt, which helps reduce that annoying itchiness of the merino against my skin.
I then add long sleeved hiking shirt and down gilet plus windproof/waterproof jacket for chilly starts. The gilet is usually the first to be put back in my pack, then the jacket (assuming no rain). Only on really warm afternoons does my hiking shirt get removed, and my lower arms get sun-creamed.
So in total I take three runners t-shirts (one on, two in the pack), two long sleeved hiking shirts, one down gilet, one rain jacket (or windproof jacket and poncho), one buff, one sun hat, one beanie. For the evening, I have a Polycotton sweatshirt, which I wash only when there is a machine and dryer available.
I also wear hiking shorts (one one, one off) and carry a pair of long hiking trousers for the evening. My luxury is bamboo fibre pyjamas which aren't as quick to dry as polyester or as warm as Merino, but feel more comfortable than either.
zip-up running vest/gilet - wind and slightly water resistant
I don't have specific experience with that type of running vest. However, I don't think that its attributes - wind and water resistance - are the attributes that would substitute either for a fleece mid layer or another base. Of course every layer of any material will help as insulation, so combining the vest with arm layers is a way to accomplish it. However, it won't be as comfortable as a fleece or puffy jacket for warmth on really chilly days or at night.I might bring it as my mid-layer for over merino tee short or long sleeve. It is really light and could save me from bringing a fleece or another base.
Thanks, helpful comments. I do have a puffy hooded layer for cool and evenings - April.I don't have specific experience with that type of running vest. However, I don't think that its attributes - wind and water resistance - are the attributes that would substitute either for a fleece mid layer or another base. Of course every layer of any material will help as insulation, so combining the vest with arm layers is a way to accomplish it. However, it won't be as comfortable as a fleece or puffy jacket for warmth on really chilly days or at night.
Again, think about the functions as you head out for the day, and how you will respond to changing conditions by adding/subtracting layers. Then do the same for the evenings.
Always determine a layering system. April 5 start will likely be cold at night and in the morning.Dear fellow caminantes,
I'm starting my frist Camino Frances on April 5th from Roncesvalles.
I've been overwhelmed by the amount of info on clothing, gear, etc. and given I'm not someone who enjoys the cold, I'd appreciate your guidance/advice if I'm on the right track here, I have just purchased a few items and would love to hear if you think I need to add a spare or ditch/swap for something else:
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino long sleeve base layer (200)
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino short sleeve 150
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino Vest
- 1 x Icebreaker Merino Long Sleeve Zip Hoodie (I'm worried about this one as it weights 518 grams)
According to my understanding after all I've read in this incredible forum, I should probably get a spare long sleeve (maybe lighter weight) and a spare short sleeve, would that be right?
And also a rain jacket or a poncho.
Am I missing anything for the top?
Thanks for your invaluable guidance!
Cheers,
Mariano
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