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I think they meet all the time. In reality I think there is a huge spectrum of options rather than two distinct worlds. People pick and mix the "luxury" elements they want for their Camino journeys. The prices quoted in the article sound fairly modest compared to some. A tour company here in the UK is charging upwards of €1800 for an upmarket 7 days from Sarria to Santiago. Though that does include flights. Considerably more than I spent walking for a month from SJPDP in January.À chacun ses goûts/To each his own !
I wonder if these 2 worlds will ever meet?
On my second Camino I bumped into a Bavarian church group on their way to Santiago by coach. One lady told me very forcefully that solo walkers like me were not real pilgrims - a genuine pilgrimage meant going in church-sponsored parties accompanied by a priest to lead daily devotions.A small van of tourists arrived and a few hyper-tidy ‘Sunday pilgrims’ with new walking sticks exited in order to sample the trail! Spotting my pack and shell they politely asked “How long have you been walking?” “48 days!” I answered. Stunned they dashed to the bar and never moved on....
Phil had one of those church groups at Estella at the donativo. Two Italian pilgrims came to ask if there was room for the rest of the group. They were traveling with their priest and Phil did not carefully look at their credentials to see that they could not have possibly walked based on the distances between nights. As it turned out they were traveling by bus. He had already agreed, but was really sorry because they did not really know the etiquette of albergues such as quiet time, not eating the food of others, leaving at 8 a.m., etc. Obviously not a "luxury" camino if they stayed at the donativo overnight, but it was clear that there was divide in practices from our regular clientel.On my second Camino I bumped into a Bavarian church group on their way to Santiago by coach. One lady told me very forcefully that solo walkers like me were not real pilgrims - a genuine pilgrimage meant going in church-sponsored parties accompanied by a priest to lead daily devotions.
I think the bus group I met were far too organised for that. All very well planned and arranged in advance. It was a large bus and full and no one in their right minds would have expected to find albergue space for them all with no warning. Especially not in 2002 when albergues were still fairly thin on the ground and usually quite small.Phil had one of those church groups at Estella at the donativo. Two Italian pilgrims came to ask if there was room for the rest of the group.
I don't judge anyone on how they wish to travel or to go on a camino route. But I had to stop reading this story because for me it was depressing. Another reason I walk late in the year and will be starting on the Vasco Interior and then the Portugues or maybe the Invierno in November/December. I will walk the Meseta from Burgos to Leon as I love it especially in cold months. In Leon I will decide where to go next. Next year looking at the Mozarabe and then back on the VDLP.El Camino de Santiago de lujo, la nueva ruta que llena Lugo: pícnic, fotos y viajes incluidos - http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...cnic-fotos-viajes/00031678297583956515380.htm
Story today in the paper about full service luxury Camino.
Sounds amazing! I wish I had known about it sooner. I contracted with Santiago ways to do a private trip for my sister and I, doing only 10 K a day and a better accommodation without shared rooms, our own bathroom and more meals with transport for bags because I will be in Europe for two months before and have a bigger bag. I’m surprised this wasn’t done earlier! I hope no one will be too critical. At my age, I like comfort and I don’t want to be woken up at 5 AM & hear snoring all night and use a shared bathroom, but I would still like to walk the country. this idea of a picnic and drinks waiting for me at the end of the day sounds like heaven. Buen Camino!El Camino de Santiago de lujo, la nueva ruta que llena Lugo: pícnic, fotos y viajes incluidos - http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...cnic-fotos-viajes/00031678297583956515380.htm
Story today in the paper about full service luxury Camino.
You should have told her you archbishop thought differently.On my second Camino I bumped into a Bavarian church group on their way to Santiago by coach. One lady told me very forcefully that solo walkers like me were not real pilgrims - a genuine pilgrimage meant going in church-sponsored parties accompanied by a priest to lead daily devotions.
Riding a bus from Santiago back to Madrid. Roomy seat, wifi, toilet facilities, and good company. That was luxury!El Camino de Santiago de lujo, la nueva ruta que llena Lugo: pícnic, fotos y viajes incluidos - http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...cnic-fotos-viajes/00031678297583956515380.htm
Story today in the paper about full service luxury Camino.
We are only doing the last hundred kilometers, so we will stay at the Parador in Santiago de Compostela only. I would love to do more paradors on other routes in other years, but this is the only time my sister has had in four years because she is a nurse and has been working through Covid.Phil had one of those church groups at Estella at the donativo. Two Italian pilgrims came to ask if there was room for the rest of the group. They were traveling with their priest and Phil did not carefully look at their credentials to see that they could not have possibly walked based on the distances between nights. As it turned out they were traveling by bus. He had already agreed, but was really sorry because they did not really know the etiquette of albergues such as quiet time, not eating the food of others, leaving at 8 a.m., etc. Obviously not a "luxury" camino if they stayed at the donativo overnight, but it was clear that there was divide in practices from our regular clientel.
I've also had groups want to stop and "tour" simple pilgrim accomodations. We are always polite and hospitable (offering a cold or hot drink) and allow this only if there are no pilgrims about so as not to intrude on privacy. We provide stamps when asked, but sometimes there is pity expressed for the foot pilgrim and sometimes outright surprise that things are clean, nice, and often cozy.
We do stay at luxury places from time to time on on the Camino (such as the Parador in Santo Domingo de la Calzada), but I prefer to make my own itinerary and arrangements for beds and meals. That is not for everyone though.
I think it was exactly the same tunnel vision which makes walkers declare that those who travel by other means cannot genuinely be pilgrims. Her journey was a pilgrimage. I did not and still do not have any problem with that. But her assumption was that pilgrimage could only have one valid form and expression. More common for us to see the other side of the same coin here on the forum but equally limited in understanding.You should have told her you archbishop thought differently.
I am torn on this. I do agree that anyone can do a "Camino" or other adventure as they see fit. And I do make an effort to make no judgement. Yet - at the same time - I kind of feel sorry for them that they won't get the same kind of deep/meaningful experience that pilgrims have historically experienced. And yes - that is a very personal experience and everyone's experience can be a little different. But I also think they don't know what they are missing, therefore they will still have a great experience. They just won't really understand in the same way what walking (or bicycling) pilgrims experience. But - to each their own.I see no issue with that at all; if the funds have been come by honestly and suitably taxed one can spend the loot as one sees fit.
What I do take very considerable issue with is the designation of anyone as a ‘very important person’ - for any reason, as it happens - but absolutely if it’s simply on the basis of money.
I’ve no opinion on the relative status of various approaches to Camino.
I’ve done that - a private Portugués Camino with Ultreya Tours. It was so incredible. Totally looked after, all we had to do was walk. We met the most amazing local hotel and restaurant owners. I’d do it again.El Camino de Santiago de lujo, la nueva ruta que llena Lugo: pícnic, fotos y viajes incluidos - http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...cnic-fotos-viajes/00031678297583956515380.htm
Story today in the paper about full service luxury Camino.
"My concern though is the more people who stay solely in private rooms and the more people paying for higher end Camino tourism... the economy could start shifting towards catering to them."
Staying in solely private rooms does not necessarily mean paying for a "higher end" Camino. Last fall my husband and I walked the Camino Ingles and stayed in places like Pension A Cepa and Penzion Meson Paz. These two accommodations could hardly be considered luxury. The price of a private room for two people is not that much more than we would pay for two beds in an albergue, and we get our own bathroom. Maybe that is luxury!
Well now you know! Next time drag a priest along. Especially if you are Catholic. I am Lutheran and our pastor is a foot shorter than I am and outweighs me. Think he would decline.On my second Camino I bumped into a Bavarian church group on their way to Santiago by coach. One lady told me very forcefully that solo walkers like me were not real pilgrims - a genuine pilgrimage meant going in church-sponsored parties accompanied by a priest to lead daily devotions.
Not strictly necessary as I had that covered. My meeting with the lady took place just after the 10th anniversary of my ordination as an Anglican priest. Though she might not have approved of that either...Well now you know! Next time drag a priest along.
The parador in Santiago is fantastic. And a luxury. Also you can stay at the monastery up through the tunnel (with the bag piper) and have an almost equally great experience for less $ if you’re willing to share a small room.We are only doing the last hundred kilometers, so we will stay at the Parador in Santiago de Compostela only. I would love to do more paradors on other routes in other years, but this is the only time my sister has had in four years because she is a nurse and has been working through Covid.
Thank you@jeanineonthecamino I wouldn't worry about the shift depriving pilgrims of albergue accommodation. The relatively small capital involved for albergues and the nature of the work would attract former pilgrims with an entrepeneurial spirit-- we se many instances of this on the Francese. More upmarket accommodation (where I must confess I have enjoyed the lovely beds and bathrooms) cannot just rely on honeymooning pilgrims and prosperous elderly pilgrims yearning for their own bathroom, but also must attract Spaniards on weekend jaunts, as well as foreign tourists.
My problem with the tour groups is that they relate primarily to each other and miss out on the wonderful friendships which pilgrims make along the way, and the spontaneous greetings and serendipitous interactions with our Spanish hosts.
@Liltravlr *obeisance imoji* to your nurse sister, and may she enjoy aperitivos on plazas and a glass of orujo after dinner, far away from bells ringing and unexpected extensions of her shift. As well as paradores, there are some lovely casas rurales along the last 100km.
What a strange thing to say about this woman from Bavaria on a group bus trip and pilgrimage. Bavaria is overwhelmingly Catholic and has perhaps the strongest uninterrupted pilgrimage tradition of all the German states. And pilgrimage means group pilgrimage in their centuries old tradition with priests and praying together and singing together. There’s a Bavarian Pilgrimage Office in Munich that was founded in 1925 and has been organising train and bus pilgrimages ever since - here’s a photo of their fleet in 1950. Compared to this, the Camino pilgrimage is still in its infancy … barely 30 years old.Something tells me her expectations of others, and life in general, are rarely met.
What a strange thing to say about this woman from Bavaria on a group bus trip and pilgrimage. Bavaria is overwhelmingly Catholic and has perhaps the strongest uninterrupted pilgrimage tradition of all the German states. And pilgrimage means group pilgrimage in their centuries old tradition with priests and prayers and singing. There’s a Bavarian Pilgrimage Office in Munich that was founded in 1925 and has been organising train and bus pilgrimages ever since - here’s a photo of their fleet in 1950. Compared to this, the Camino pilgrimage is still in its infancy … barely 30 years old..
Actually, the camino has been a pilgrimage for hoWhat a strange thing to say about this woman from Bavaria on a group bus trip and pilgrimage. Bavaria is overwhelmingly Catholic and has perhaps the strongest uninterrupted pilgrimage tradition of all the German states. And pilgrimage means group pilgrimage in their centuries old tradition with priests and praying together and singing together. There’s a Bavarian Pilgrimage Office in Munich that was founded in 1925 and has been organising train and bus pilgrimages ever since - here’s a photo of their fleet in 1950. Compared to this, the Camino pilgrimage is still in its infancy … barely 30 years old..
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thank you for the history of Bavarian pilgrimages. Actually, the Camino de Santiago pilgrimages started in the 9th century. what little I know of it's long history is fascinating.What a strange thing to say about this woman from Bavaria on a group bus trip and pilgrimage. Bavaria is overwhelmingly Catholic and has perhaps the strongest uninterrupted pilgrimage tradition of all the German states. And pilgrimage means group pilgrimage in their centuries old tradition with priests and praying together and singing together. There’s a Bavarian Pilgrimage Office in Munich that was founded in 1925 and has been organising train and bus pilgrimages ever since - here’s a photo of their fleet in 1950. Compared to this, the Camino pilgrimage is still in its infancy … barely 30 years old..
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Sure. Although they didn’t call it the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage - they called it going to the good lord Saint James in Galicia … and I see a difference between growing up from childhood steeped in a tradition that has been alive for centuries and is still a living tradition today and a tradition that one has acquired from watching a 10 year old movie or joining a 15 year old local chapter of a Camino association. Or a 20 year old Internet forum for that matter.the Camino de Santiago pilgrimages started in the 9th century
What a strange thing to say about this woman from Bavaria on a group bus trip and pilgrimage. Bavaria is overwhelmingly Catholic and has perhaps the strongest uninterrupted pilgrimage tradition of all the German states. And pilgrimage means group pilgrimage in their centuries old tradition with priests and praying together and singing together. There’s a Bavarian Pilgrimage Office in Munich that was founded in 1925 and has been organising train and bus pilgrimages ever since - here’s a photo of their fleet in 1950. Compared to this, the Camino pilgrimage is still in its infancy … barely 30 years old..
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I agree. Of all the major Christian pilgrimage sites it only seems to be Santiago which has acquired this dubious notion that pilgrimage = walking exclusively. Or that those who walk a longer distance than the majority are intrinsically more worthy. Some time ago someone posted here on the forum that he felt those who walked significantly more than the minimum 100km for a Compostela should be given a separate priority queue at the pilgrim officeThe key of any pilgrimage is intention, so I have never understood some snarky responses on the forum about those who walk " only " from Sarria or those who get their packs transported.
We are only doing the last hundred kilometers, so we will stay at the Parador in Santiago de Compostela only. I would love to do more paradors on other routes in other years, but this is the only time my sister has had in four years because she is a nurse and has been working through
Having a bed that wasn't a bunk bed was luxury for me. Any time I found one I gave thanks.The price of a private room for two people is not that much more than we would pay for two beds in an albergue, and we get our own bathroom. Maybe that is luxury
It is just the name that one of the two Lugo tour companies have chosen for one of their program lines.I have issue with them considered "VIP's". Not sure if people really see them as VIP's or if that is just the writer of the article.
That isn't what I was saying. I agree most private rooms currently don't cost much more than an albergue bed and they are basic accommodations for the most part. And I have no problem with pilgrims chosing private rooms, I like private rooms sometimes too."My concern though is the more people who stay solely in private rooms and the more people paying for higher end Camino tourism... the economy could start shifting towards catering to them."
Staying in solely private rooms does not necessarily mean paying for a "higher end" Camino. Last fall my husband and I walked the Camino Ingles and stayed in places like Pension A Cepa and Penzion Meson Paz. These two accommodations could hardly be considered luxury. The price of a private room for two people is not that much more than we would pay for two beds in an albergue, and we get our own bathroom. Maybe that is luxury!
I think it is quite possible that these pilgrims will have the same kind of deep/meaningful experience that pilgrims have historically experienced. Historically, there have been plenty of pilgrims that have taken whatever forms of transit were available. They may have slightly different kinds of deep/meaningful experiences than you have walking but they an be equally deep and meaningful. I say this as someone who has walked the Camino Frances and also has mostly hitchhiked it. Both experiences were deep and meaningful in their own way, and I can say for sure I approached the Camino every bit as much a pilgrim (perhaps moreso) when hitching as I did when walking. I think how deep and meaningful a Camino is depends more upon how open one is to the experience and to looking for meaning than it does on mode of transit and where one sleeps.I am torn on this. I do agree that anyone can do a "Camino" or other adventure as they see fit. And I do make an effort to make no judgement. Yet - at the same time - I kind of feel sorry for them that they won't get the same kind of deep/meaningful experience that pilgrims have historically experienced. And yes - that is a very personal experience and everyone's experience can be a little different. But I also think they don't know what they are missing, therefore they will still have a great experience. They just won't really understand in the same way what walking (or bicycling) pilgrims experience. But - to each their own.
And yes - I have issue with them considered "VIP's". Not sure if people really see them as VIP's or if that is just the writer of the article. But it is the same as long distance pilgrims being considered more important than the last 100km pilgrims. No one should be viewed as "better" in any way than the others. I would hope that the locals continue to support/offer encouragement to those who are doing a more traditional pilgrimage on foot/bicycle/horseback.
My concern though is the more people who stay solely in private rooms and the more people paying for higher end Camino tourism... the economy could start shifting towards catering to them. No - I am NOT saying that staying in private rooms is negative (I love a private room here and there). And I am fine with people making the choice, whatever the reason, to stay in privates. But my concern is that as more people flock towards the Camino and towards private rooms - there could end up being less albergue beds down the line as businesses cater towards providing more private rooms instead of albergue beds. And with the influx if "richer" pilgrims, prices will likely start to reflect that - which could make it less affordable to those wishing to do longer distance pilgrimages. I just don't want to see a decline in affordable food and accommodations as a result of more people choosing "luxury" Camino experiences.
Anyhow - all these companies are great for those who need them or want their services. I just hope the old fashioned pilgrimage remains in reach and affordable for the masses.
How long was the bus ride ?Riding a bus from Santiago back to Madrid. Roomy seat, wifi, toilet facilities, and good company. That was luxury!
It took me two days because I stopped in segovia for one day layover.How long was the bus ride ?
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