- Time of past OR future Camino
- Annually - often more - from 2014
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Perhaps you have identified the solution already....only to find later that my interpretation of what they posted was not precisely what was intended and, through ignorance, I have not made any allowance for them only being 99% fluent in English.
I think you’ll find I identified the underlying issue as through ignorancePerhaps you have identified the solution already.
To which, let me add that native speakers of English don't all speak the same language either.
How about a nationality or language marker among side a posters chosen name? It might promote better understanding. Or is this a solution in search of a problem ...
My own mother tongue is German and I am far from being able to describe my knowledge of the English language as good. But I´ve learned so much here in this forum
It seems to me that it is not necessary to indicate the nationality or mother tongue in an extra field, because there are already possibilities to find out the origin of the members.
If you click on the bold written forum name of the member, an excerpt appears, in which with many members the origin appears. Of course you can't necessarily deduce the mother tongue from the origin (especially in the "classic immigration countries" like USA, Canada, Australia etc.), but I think that most of the inhabitants speak the official language of their current place of residence quite well.
In your own account, you obviously didn't enter anything in the field "location", so you are travelling "incognito" in some way.
I share your interest in what is the native language of people on this forum - and, in fact, of anyone I meet and talk to. But, as suggested, perhaps the location field is enough.How about a nationality or language marker among side a posters chosen name? It might promote better understanding.
That sounds good. I enjoy John McWhorter's Lexicon Valley podcast.Since we are talking about language, I will share a podcast series that makes wonderful walking company: The Story of Human Language, an audio book by John McWhorter. I am generally not a big fan of audio books, but I am slowly being converted, especially for nonfiction.
That looks great!That sounds good. I enjoy John McWhorter's Lexicon Valley podcast.
relaised
(×2)
[Haha...If someone were to copyedit my posts, it'd look like that, too.]
The fact that our foreign members make a very good attempt at writing English is a huge benefit and I for one, am grateful.
A colleague was so incensed by the lack of understanding as to when to use its and not it's she had paper slips printed off which she'd staple to the offending document - you might like a copy:Which one?♥
(×2)
[Haha...If someone were to copyedit my posts, it'd look like that, too.]
If we nitpick about apostrophes and spelling regardless of the native language of the poster, there wouldn't be any space to get our messages across.
That said, it really bugs me when I see apparent sloppiness or ignorance of basic usage, like: its versus it's; there versus their versus they're.
That may be more about depending on autocorrect about spelling, more than about what language we speak.
OUCH! Anybody not from Denmark?Who are "our foreign members"?
I think that most of the major languages have their own Camino forums anyway. Not convinced that such fragmentation here would be helpful. It might be more useful to help those who wish to use another language to find the right place.Related question: would it make any sense to have a non-English sub-forum where people could write in other languages? Hard to moderate, but more inclusive.
I have not found a post I have not understood yet.I think that most of the major languages have their own Camino forums anyway. Not convinced that such fragmentation here would be helpful. It might be more useful to help those who wish to use another language to find the right place.
I don't get it when people get worked up about mistakes like its/it's or there/their in online conversations where it is obvious that the writer is a non-native speaker of English or perhaps someone who made a careless mistake.
You could have a look at Mc Whorter, Ted talk on txtng. It may not be to your liking, but it has its merits. I resist it myself, except for tanx, but I see what he is saying.I agree. The one thing that slightly annoys me is when I see the use of ‘text message pidgin’ like using ”u” for you, ”ur” for you are, ”b4” for before etc. – but that doesn’t happen very often.
I actually know very little about reading, i.e. how we read. I think I read "visually", I see words and context and patterns, I don't have to "hear" them, if that explanation makes any sense. When the letters I see deviate too much from what I expect, like CEII or b4, or when there is a considerable amount of very sloppy spelling in a post, it slows me down in my reading and understanding of what is written and that is slightly annoying.The one thing that slightly annoys me is when I see the use of ‘text message pidgin’ like using ”u” for you, ”ur” for you are, ”b4” for before etc. – but that doesn’t happen very often.
You could have a look at Mc Whorter, Ted talk on txtng. It may not be to your liking, but it has its merits. I resist it myself, except for tanx, but I see what he is saying.
I actually know very little about reading, i.e. how we read. I think I read "visually", I see words and context and patterns, I don't have to "hear" them, if that explanation makes any sense. When the letters I see deviate too much from what I expect, like CEII or b4, or when there is a considerable amount of very sloppy spelling in a post, it slows me down in my reading and understanding of what is written and that is slightly annoying.
Back in the early days of home PCs I once caused my multilingual English father-in-law a few minutes of puzzlement by sending him a letter written in English but printed using the Greek character set. Took him a while to work out why his Greek had suddenly failed him.It is also suggested that the font in which something is written plays a crucial role in the effectiveness of the decoding process.
p.s. If you don't feel offended after reading this post, you have my deepest apology.
Please forgive me, I beg youI don't feel offended, only well entertained
@Bradypus, you are baaad.Took him a while to work out why his Greek had suddenly failed him.
u might like a copy:
A bow of thanks, from one grammar pedant to another. I love this!
I think it's very niece of the OP to take zis in too conzideration. And look at threats ritten bye people from ozer nationalities forgiffingly. And not be ovended to easilie.
Zank joe zo mutsch.
when there is a considerable amount of very sloppy spelling in a post, it slows me down in my reading and understanding of what is written and that is slightly annoying.
We even have a moderator suggesting that non-native English speakers go elsewhere
I get along well enough in Castilian Spanish, I can function in french but I’m a native English speaker.
This forum is almost entirely in English yet I’m constantly amazed at the fluency, grammar and vocabulary of many who post here for whom English is a second (or third, or more) language.
I have occasionally argued a counterpoint to another poster, only to find later that my interpretation of what they posted was not precisely what was intended and, through ignorance, I have not made any allowance for them only being 99% fluent in English.
How about a nationality or language marker among side a posters chosen name? It might promote better understanding.
Or is this a solution in search of a problem ...
This was posted back in 2009 and is still there on our Announcements page:This is a site created and maintained by a Norwegian living in Spain, frequented by people from all over the world - and now some native English-speaking people are "claiming" ownership? We even have a moderator suggesting that non-native English speakers go elsewhere .. er, that would strictly include US Americans, wouldn't it?
A good example of the confusing differences between UK and US English - "two nations divided by a common language". It doesn't help that where I live 'coed' means "wood" or "trees"Some time ago there was a question if there are only coed showers in each albergue. coed????
Wasn’t it Oscar Wilde who said »Two nations divided by one language » or something similarPerhaps you have identified the solution already.
To which, let me add that native speakers of English don't all speak the same language either.
The average vocabulary of a someone who speaks English as their first language is 20,000- 30,000 words out of a total of about 170,000 words in current use (over a million in total, if we count the obsolete words). None of us even approach 99% of the total language, even the most fluent of us. We could all use some of that allowance.I get along well enough in Castilian Spanish, I can function in french but I’m a native English speaker.
This forum is almost entirely in English yet I’m constantly amazed at the fluency, grammar and vocabulary of many who post here for whom English is a second (or third, or more) language.
I have occasionally argued a counterpoint to another poster, only to find later that my interpretation of what they posted was not precisely what was intended and, through ignorance, I have not made any allowance for them only being 99% fluent in English.
How about a nationality or language marker among side a posters chosen name? It might promote better understanding.
Or is this a solution in search of a problem ...
The average vocabulary of a someone who speaks English as their first language is 20,000- 30,000 words out of a total of about 170,000 words in current use (over a million in total, if we count the obsolete words). None of us even approach 99% of the total language, even the most fluent of us. We could all use some of that allowance.
I understand you perfectly.'what about lunch?"
I understand you perfectly.
Fair point, and something I considered, which is why I didn't put a percentage on the fluency, just on our total command of the language, a fine distinction I am quite ready to admit. I was just saying that even the most fluent of us don't have anything close to a perfect vocabulary and so should hopefully be accorded that spirit of generosity that we are extending to those for whom it is a second language.Mine was an illustrative, directional comment by way of discussion not one put forward for audit.
I believe that the number of words required to read the majority of a quality daily newspaper is in the low ‘000s - but I’m not citing a reference, so feel free to pick that point apart as well.
I’m not sure that any reasonable definition of fluency would be based on the proportion of all feasible words which an individual understood.
Good point. Thanks.Fair point, and something I considered, which is why I didn't put a percentage on the fluency, just on our total command of the language, a fine distinction I am quite ready to admit. I was just saying that even the most fluent of us don't have anything close to a perfect vocabulary and so should hopefully be accorded that spirit of generosity that we are extending to those for whom it is a second language.
If it came across as a criticism, I apologize.
Usually attributed to an Irishman (George Bernard Shaw) but there's no proof he actually said it.Wasn’t it Oscar Wilde who said »Two nations divided by one language » or something similar
Many years ago I took my daughters to Ostend for a day trip (and the mussels!) and on the way home we stopped off at Koksijde-Bad where they started playing with a young girl - they were all about 7 - 9 years old.I have always felt very welcome here on this forum as a non native English speaker.
Here in Belgium foreign tv-shows are not dubbed ( like for instance in France or Spain ) but subtitled. For me this made it easier when learning a new language .
There are many disadvantages about living in this country but I can't complain about our level of language education.
We have three official languages : Dutch, French and German.
Fourth language in school is English.
Then I followed four years of Spanish in adult evening class.
And to quote Winnie the Pooh : "It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like 'what about lunch?" .
Are you sure English isn't your native language over there? I've never met anybody from the Netherlands who didn't speak it better than I can!I'm Dutch. So English isn't my native langwage.
I think it's very niece of the OP to take zis in too conzideration. And look at threats ritten bye people from ozer nationalities forgiffingly. And not be ovended to easilie.
Zank joe zo mutsch.
I get along well enough in Castilian Spanish, I can function in french but I’m a native English speaker.
This forum is almost entirely in English yet I’m constantly amazed at the fluency, grammar and vocabulary of many who post here for whom English is a second (or third, or more) language.
I have occasionally argued a counterpoint to another poster, only to find later that my interpretation of what they posted was not precisely what was intended and, through ignorance, I have not made any allowance for them only being 99% fluent in English.
How about a nationality or language marker among side a posters chosen name? It might promote better understanding.
Or is this a solution in search of a problem ...
There are some research that suggests that fast readers don’t actually read words but rather employ a variety of ‘decoding strategies’ based on pattern recognition.
I get by with a little help from my friends in a number of languages! English is the fourth language I learnt - but probably my best language - being the only language in which I have published academic books and papers. English is not a simple languages and like all other languages was given to man and woman too, to hide their thoughts. I don’t think you knowing which is my first language is going to help you unpick my mis-constructtions in English - unless your grasp of Bengali (the first language I learnt and my mother’s tongue) and my other languages were so good that you would pick exactly what I was thinking in another language while I was writing in English.I get along well enough in Castilian Spanish, I can function in french but I’m a native English speaker.
This forum is almost entirely in English yet I’m constantly amazed at the fluency, grammar and vocabulary of many who post here for whom English is a second (or third, or more) language.
I have occasionally argued a counterpoint to another poster, only to find later that my interpretation of what they posted was not precisely what was intended and, through ignorance, I have not made any allowance for them only being 99% fluent in English.
How about a nationality or language marker among side a posters chosen name? It might promote better understanding.
Or is this a solution in search of a problem ...
Educational practices based on this theory have been quite disastrous, and have led to a substantial increase in full or functional illiteracy where they have been attempted -- so sorry, but I'm unconvinced.
Ha ha. I don’t know about that. One thing‘s for zure ‘though: apparently we share the same kind of humour.Are you sure English isn't your native language over there? I've never met anybody from the Netherlands who didn't speak it better than I can!
I agree. We did not talk about speed reading. Like others, I did a course at uni, tried to apply the technique a few times and abandoned it. We talked about fast reading, i.e. the fact that, for many people, these factors can irritate them and slow down their usual speed of reading: frequent and careless spelling mistakes, irregular use of lower and upper case, lack of punctuation, and lack of paragraphs.As far as I am informed, this not an educational practice but a ’method’ which apparently is intuitively adopted by experienced/frequent readers that has been deduced from observations/experiments.
As far as I am informed, this not an educational practice but a ’method’ which apparently is intuitively adopted by experienced/frequent readers that has been deduced from observations/experiments.
I agree. We did not talk about speed reading. Like others, I did a course at uni, tried to apply the technique a few times and abandoned it. We talked about fast reading, i.e. the fact that, for many people, these factors can irritate them and slow down their usual speed of reading: frequent and careless spelling mistakes, irregular use of lower and upper case, lack of punctuation, and lack of paragraphs.
(Catch the deliberate typo?)
a bank ckerk asked...
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Nice example. ☺Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy
I didn't spot that, and neither did @VNwalking. ☺ckerk
That's as good a reason for posting as anySo... for no other reason but to demonstrate (ahem) 'the power of translation' - there is a thread on the Forum titled Fisterra and mystique of Death.
I found it made more sense if I manually selected Galician rather than Spanish in the Google Chrome translate options.So... for no other reason but to demonstrate (ahem) 'the power of translation' - there is a thread on the Forum titled Fisterra and mystique of Death.
Actually, when I checked what I had posted, I noticed that one, along with a second small i, but left it. Your example is one I had seen, and it does work. An enjoyable meander, thanks to all contributors.I assumed that it was this, but I might be wrong:-
In the general vein of the current discussion, I imagine that a lot of people have come across this observation:-
I walked Le Puy to Santiago with a young man who I met on a camino before and he and his mom and I got very close. I was almost like the dad that Max never knew. I love that kid although he cost me a fortune in food!!!! I can't tell you how many times we would be communicating on Whatsapp because he was always ahead of me. He would give me directions or tell me a location where we should meet and I would have NO IDEA whatsoever what he was talking about as he speaks Australian English and Australian slang and I speak the American version. I would answer him back with the usual "Max, what the $#ck are you talking about SPEAK ENGLISH. It is amazing how even within a language there is another language. I have always been amazed by the fluency of others in English and ashamed of my non fluency.
This is my humbling experience too.Are you sure English isn't your native language over there? I've never met anybody from the Netherlands who didn't speak it better than I can!
Truth."It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like 'what about lunch?" .
I didn't indeed, but fell for the decoys instead.I didn't spot that, and neither did @VNwalking
I have been to Ireland and I loved it and yes I learned one great trick about understanding the Irish, English language. It is something that I learned in college when I spent 8 moths studying in England. When I visited the northern reaches of Scotland I couldn't understand one word of what anyone said@You want to try visiting Ireland. Even our translators need translators to understand English from different parts of this small island.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?