CJ Williams
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Via Turonense (1995)
Camino Francés (1996; 1999; 2001; 2005; 2008; 2011)
Camino Aragonés (2000)
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sagalouts said:maybe Navarra can start charging those imprudent enough to run in streets full of charging bulls 200-300 injured each year,mostly minor but many from the area have sadly died over the years
Spain also has its goat tossing festival,climb a church belfry and toss it out 50 feet into the crowds.
other imprudent acts include El Clacho (jumping over a row of babies under 12 months while dressed as devils)-La Tomatina ( hose a crowd with water cannons who then throw tomatoes at each other
and don't forget the bonfires of Saint John where children are encouraged to run through the fires :shock:
Ian
sagalouts said:I,m proud to come from a country (England) were we take care of our own (with no charge, including healthcare) and others including Spain and its self induced economic crisis,and don't get me started on the way that America treats it citizens. Ian
alexwalker said:We must have in mind that we are talking about services in Spain, whch are very, very different from USA.
You might want to assign that to cultural differences. Many Asians show nonchalance when embarrassed. The Japanese might bow a lot. It is almost certain that these Koreans did not speak Spanish, so they might have simply smiled because they did not understand a word of what was going on around them. Suddenly their were cameras in their faces, and a dozen incomprehensible questions in the air. Additionally, they may not have thought they needed rescuing. They survived the night in a shelter, dug themselves out, and were continuing on their way when rescued. They called 112, so they knew they were in a degree of peril, but they may have perceived that they were surviving just fine. Another foot of snow, and their determination to continue from the shelter might have been their demise. They dodged the bullet once, but a second shot might have gotten them.the non-chalant, laughing-it-off attitude the stranded pilgrims demonstrated
Navarricano said:And as Alexwalker pointed out above, EU citizens residing in the Eurozone need only present proof that they are covered by their nation's healthcare plan in order to receive treatment in Spain. These days, that means carrying the EHIC (European Health Insurance Card) issued free of charge by your national health insurance provider. European Health Insurance Cards give you access to medically necessary, state-provided healthcare during a temporary stay in any of the 27 EU countries, Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland.
Yikes! And do I know about taking expired documents! Adriaan forgot to check the expiry date if his credit card- it had been expired since February and this was in the month of September! We had to take a bus to get to Logroño on a Friday, to be able to fix the problem before the weekend! And this is the action of a VERY meticulous person, who always checks everything!!! AnneAl the optimist said:Just an aside. When checking the pack contents the other day I realised that my E111 was expiring. I now have a new one but have added checking ALL documents are valid and up to date has been added to my pre departure check list. Yes, I know it should always have been there but I admit to not being peerfect!
allan
alexwalker said:Navarricano puts the rules nicely into place for us EU citizens.
peregrina2000 said:Another rescue just yesterday -- 3 pilgrims lost between Valcarlos and Ibaneta. One with "light" hypothermia, two males in fine shape.
http://www.diariodenavarra.es/noticias/ ... _1010.html
I wonder if they will be hit with the new rescue charge. Buen camino, Laurie
As a newbie - with an appalling sense of direction - starting from StJPdeP, how difficult/ easy is it to go astray on that route StJean/Valcarlos/Roncesvalles - I've seen posts re taking the wrong turn near Arneguy but how would these pilgrims have got lost?
I did not interpret the article as saying they were on the Valcarlos route. I thought it was just a general description of the area in which the Koreans were lost. Ibaneta pass is on the Napolean route. The Valcarlos route can be done completely on the road. It should not be difficult to resiste the temptation to dive into a couple of meters of snow when the footpath takes a short cut in a couple of spots.how difficult/ easy is it to go astray on that route StJean/Valcarlos/Roncesvalles
jpflavin1 said:Navarricanno:
I have several questions in order to educate myself. I hope you can help.
What is the make-up of the crew that performs the rescues? (numbers and job description)
Do they maintain round the clock shifts or are they called out as needed. Are they located in a response facility?
Is this a designated group per region? Funded by each region or central Government?
I understand you might not have all this information.
Ultreya,
Joe
falcon269 said:I did not interpret the article as saying they were on the Valcarlos route.how difficult/ easy is it to go astray on that route StJean/Valcarlos/Roncesvalles
hecate105 said:It is easy to get lost, signs can be missing or turned around, BUT how can any adult, equipped for hiking, not be able to make do for themselves through a night, until they find their way again in the morning? You can put on all your clothes and waterproofs, you have water and basic food, you can huddle under a tree, fence or pretty much anything, especially in a group, until you get through the night. Yes, you may get cold, yes, you may run out/low on water, but you should survive! If you travel without basics, then perhaps you should have a taxi number and phone, so you can pay to 'rescue' yourself if you get lost of an evening!
People seem so bloomin' non-self-reliant nowadays... mutter, mutter, mutter
kmrice said:Good points. The man didn't "freeze to death" of course; hypothermia can occur well above the freezing point. Please don't take this as criticism of your excellent post. Just want to make sure no one thinks hypothermia only kicks in at or even near freezing. It can be a serious danger at relatively mild temperatures if one is not properly dressed for them
Karl
falcon269 said:...
What is with the Koreans? I suppose that is mostly a rhetorical question. They have accounted for all the stupid rescues this year. They are generally very bright. Does enthusiasm make them dumb?
hecate105 said:It is easy to get lost, signs can be missing or turned around, BUT how can any adult, equipped for hiking, not be able to make do for themselves through a night, until they find their way again in the morning? You can put on all your clothes and waterproofs, you have water and basic food, you can huddle under a tree, fence or pretty much anything, especially in a group, until you get through the night. Yes, you may get cold, yes, you may run out/low on water, but you should survive! If you travel without basics, then perhaps you should have a taxi number and phone, so you can pay to 'rescue' yourself if you get lost of an evening!
People seem so bloomin' non-self-reliant nowadays... mutter, mutter, mutter
SYates said:falcon269 said:...
What is with the Koreans? I suppose that is mostly a rhetorical question. They have accounted for all the stupid rescues this year. They are generally very bright. Does enthusiasm make them dumb?
Most likely two things: Coming from a very different climate with no "stories" of such winter emergencies. What I mean is that people in the northern hemisphere a) experience winter and b) even if not hikers themselves, grow up more often then not, with stories of such winter hiking accidents / emergencies. It is, some how, in our common consciousness, but most likely not in the Korean one. Even if people tell you, things are theoretically until you experience them yourselves. And the next is that they come from a densely populated country with little "wilderness" left. So again, in the best of cases, only theoretical knowledge about the great outdoors. What is for most of us a "civilized wilderness" the Camino de Santiago, is perhaps already "real wilderness" to them because it is so far off from what they normally experience in their home country. And lack of information / experience can lead to really dumb behaviour without meaning that the person in question is dumb. Just my 2 cents, SY
In the USA the idea would not be remarkable. For Spain it does surprise me!Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like it fails the straight face test.
Joe, I added to this thread a new story of the same type. If you look back at post #47, you'll see that Galicia just recently sent a bill for 4,800 euros to a German pilgrim who got lost between Muxia and Finisterre and needed a helicopter lift.I have a hard time understanding how you can walk to a place where you can not walk back. Unless you become injured.
This incident happened in 2012. It will probably take another couple years to resolve and will likely be something less depending on the legal precedents. There probably is not a specific law that covers this type of incident. Would they charge the same for a local that had to be rescued? Do not misunderstand my point. Irresponsible actions should have consequences.
Mendi could be right. Her legal bills in the long run, might be substantial.
Ultreya,
Joe
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