New Painkiller Survey

[Mike Trebert]

https://www.theguardian.com/science...d-to-increase-risk-of-heart-failure-bmj-finds

Ibuprofen is a popular painkiller which is mentioned often on this forum and in many YouTube Camino videos. I was warned about it by my doctor before I walked my Camino Frances earlier this year. Ibuprofen is known to increase blood pressure in some people. I used a topical anti-inflammatory ointment - Voltaren - but not the oral version of the same medication - Ibuprofen. The survey is worth considering, I think. Of course, every body is different.

Buen Camino, - Mike

 

[KinkyOne]

Can second that from my own experience. OK, I wasn't addmited to the hospital because of heart failure or similar but when taking diclofenac and/or ibuprofen because of ankles/knees pain my blood pressure is higher for a week or so after that.
Also remember similar post on this forum in the past about side effects of diclofenac. High risk of damage to your liver.
I guess anything you take in higher than normal doses is risky at some point. But then again - what is normal?

 

[Tincatinker]

Beware of Headlines distorting facts. While I recognize that there are a significant proportion of aged wrecks such as my goodself shuffling the Camino the peer group in this study puts most of us firmly outside the risk group.

“This observational study analysed prescription-only NSAIDs, used long-term by people with an average age of 77 years to treat conditions such as arthritis.
Prescribed NSAIDs contain a higher dosage than medicines available over the counter, which the authors acknowledge would typically be used by younger people, at lower doses and for shorter durations than those prescribed.
The authors admit that the study has several limitations. The study does not provide data on absolute risk, therefore the probability of these people developing heart failure without the use of NSAIDs is unknown.”

Headline: 'Zoo Visitors at Risk from Tigers'. Context: Zoo visitors who climb into occupied Tiger cages are at risk of being mauled by Tigers.

That doesn't mean we should all be popping high-strength "Camino Candy" without regard to potential risks which as @KinkyOne points out is long-term liver damage from long-term usage. Use NSAIDs to treat pain and inflammation and take action to reduce the cause of the pain and inflammation.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Don't remind me of the antiinflammatory witch hunt. When Bextra came on the market I could prevent terrible episodes of back pain by simply taking 5mg once when I felt my back was bout to give out. But some people abused this class of medication and Bextra was taken off th market together with Vioxx, leaving only Celebrex which does not help me at all.

And let's get to th end of the article to read this, before panicking:

“This observational study analysed prescription-only NSAIDs, used long-term by people with an average age of 77 years to treat conditions such as arthritis....". Not the typical Camino walker, and I assume long term meansmore than the time it takes to walk most Caminos.

 

[Harington]

https://www.theguardian.com/science...d-to-increase-risk-of-heart-failure-bmj-finds

Ibuprofen is a popular painkiller which is mentioned often on this forum and in many YouTube Camino videos. I was warned about it by my doctor before I walked my Camino Frances earlier this year. Ibuprofen is known to increase blood pressure in some people. I used a topical anti-inflammatory ointment - Voltaren - but not the oral version of the same medication - Ibuprofen. The survey is worth considering, I think. Of course, every body is
Buen Camino, - Mike[

V

https://www.theguardian.com/science...d-to-increase-risk-of-heart-failure-bmj-finds

Ibuprofen is a popular painkiller which is mentioned often on this forum and in many YouTube Camino videos. I was warned about it by my doctor before I walked my Camino Frances earlier this year. Ibuprofen is known to increase blood pressure in some people. I used a topical anti-inflammatory ointment - Voltaren - but not the oral version of the same medication - Ibuprofen. The survey is worth considering, I think. Of course, every body is different.

Buen Camino, - Mike

Voltarene (Voltarol in UK) is in fact Dicofenac, more powerful than Ibuprofen, and when used orally increases the risk of a cardiovascular event. Better used topically, as you say, but never use both together.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Even topical medication allows some of the medication to enter your system, so don't over apply. I have treated people who've damaged their liver or kidneys over-using nonprescription and prescription medication. The worst was damage from tylenol mixed with narcotics in percocet. [edit: damage was from the tylenol, overuse of course was for the narcotic] "Too much" is more than the label prescribes if you are young, fit, and not on other meds or using alcohol. I'd recommend any one not in that category to discuss their own limit with their doctor before heading out the door.

 

[G.White]

I have tendinitis at the moment couldn't walk without ibuprofen in the morning. I use vino tinto in the evening to ease the pain. I'm in Leon right now and it seems a pretty popular combination. I'll detox my liver when I get home.

 

[SYates]

The other problem with taking painkillers is that they mask the pain and tempt you so to walk when you should rest with the possibility of doing permanent damage to tendons, joints etc. Buen Camino, SY

 

[Mike Trebert]

I have tendinitis at the moment couldn't walk without ibuprofen in the morning. I use vino tinto in the evening to ease the pain. I'm in Leon right now and it seems a pretty popular combination. I'll detox my liver when I get home.

A fascinating response. I soothed very sore muscles every afternoon with lots of stinking-hot running water. (I just edited that last sentence. The water was stinking-hot. The water wasn't stinking and hot!) I'm now into yoga to eliminate lingering mild plantar fasciitis. Was told after returning that a magnesium deficiency probably contributed to muscle pain and soreness while under extra stress on the Camino.

 

[trecile]

I just finished the Camino a few days ago without taking any pain medication at all. I can't take ibuprofen or other NSAIDS, so only brought a few Tylenol with me in case of headache, which I never had.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

In another thread I said watching pre-ring preparations at dog shows was like a visit to the mercardo de brujas...here I would say any given night in an albergue (especially the first third of the walk) is like a street corner in Baltimore. I would gently recommend not trading medication, not exceeding dosages of prescribed/OTC medication, following all of the label warnings (even those surrounding alcohol), and not treating your bunk mate unless you have the appropriate medical degree. Just because it can be bought without prescription, doesn't mean it's safe to take a little extra, or to devise your own treatment schedule. I know in the age of internet it is difficult to believe, but there actually is a reason some people devote quite a lot of time and effort in school to learn the ways to use medication safely.
gosh, it's a big jump down off of this soapbox...er, anyone able to give me a hand?

 

[SYates]

...
gosh, it's a big jump down off of this soapbox...er, anyone able to give me a hand?

Just stay up there, I am tempted to join you ;-) Buen Camino, SY

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Just stay up there, I am tempted to join you ;-) Buen Camino, SY

but I have bed bugs. And I snore
sorry mods, my bad

 

[Mark Lee]

I carried aspirin with me. Both 325 mg and 81 mg. Days I was really sore, the 325's. Otherwise just took my daily 81.
Did bring some Aleve (naproxen sodium), and took it a few times for pain relief, but it didn't seem to work any better than the 325 mg aspirin. I never took both aspirin and Aleve on the same day.

 

[Mike Trebert]

I carried aspirin with me. Both 325 mg and 81 mg. Days I was really sore, the 325's. Otherwise just took my daily 81.
Did bring some Aleve (naproxen sodium), and took it a few times for pain relief, but it didn't seem to work any better than the 325 mg aspirin. I never took both aspirin and Aleve on the same day.

Is bleeding of the stomach lining not a recognised possible side effect of too much aspirin? I use blood-thinning medicinal aspirin every day - it has a hard coating which doesn't dissolve until the aspirin is through to the intestine.

This thread is getting kind of pedantic. But necessarily so. Sorry. Complex issues.

 

[movinmaggie]

Try Arnica for topical use only.....

 

[Mark Lee]

Is bleeding of the stomach lining not a recognised possible side effect of too much aspirin? I use blood-thinning medicinal aspirin every day - it has a hard coating which doesn't dissolve until the aspirin is through to the intestine.

This thread is getting kind of pedantic. But necessarily so. Sorry. Complex issues.

I use the non-coated variety in both doses and chew/grind them up in my mouth with a meal whenever possible, or with water. I figure it helps the aspirin process faster within my body and prevents the irritation to the stomach lining. I have also taken the coated variety in the 81 mg dose.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

and of course the baby ones taste like orange pez

 

[C clearly]

Medical research findings summarized in popular media should be read with skeptical interest. Internet forum opinions of those reports should be read with even greater skepticism!

 

[jim-459]

Can second that from my own experience. OK, I wasn't addmited to the hospital because of heart failure or similar but when taking diclofenac and/or ibuprofen because of ankles/knees pain my blood pressure is higher for a week or so after that.
Also remember similar post on this forum in the past about side effects of diclofenac. High risk of damage to your liver.
I guess anything you take in higher than normal doses is risky at some point. But then again - what is normal?

Voltarol in Spain is called Voltadol. It contains diclofenac which was mentioned in the newspaper article.

 

[naplesdon]

Dear Moderator,
I think we are treading on a dangerous topic here. Not many of us are physicians and giving out medical advice, even if it for over the counter medicine, can be dangerous. My physio won't even comment on my daily dosage of 600mg of Advil to deal with my neuropathy and I have been warned that there are serious side effects if one mixes Volteran and Advil.

 

[wayfarer]

I agree with Don here, always consult your own doctor before taking any medication, and especially in Spain where many prescription drugs are easily available over the counter. Many of the drugs mentioned have contra indications with heart and b/p medications. Don't be tempted to self medicate. On the plus side, if you know your meds, check the prices in Spain, they are a fraction of the cost of meds in most countries, including my own.

 

[SYates]

And please, please, please don't try to medicate others by sharing what helped you!!! Others might have chronic conditions/take regular, necessary meds that don't agree with the meds you want to share. Buen Camino, SY

 

[Marion-SantiagoInLove]

Hi, thread of pain!
If a the gas button lights up in one's car, the problem won't be solved if one just turn the light off...
Pain is the messenger of a problem we should try to solve... not an enemy we should shoot on sight!

Still, when there's some Camino-related pain and even if I'm no doctor, I...
- slow down
- talk to my body (gently)
- listen to my body
- try to get what it's despaired to tell me (is my pack to heavy, did my sock slipped, doI overdo it, etc. etc.)
- try to walk right
- have a break to rest and recover, even if my mind grumps
- take my feet/legs off the ground
- stretch/massage myself
- take a nap
- drink more
- support my articulations with straps
- use walking poles and lean more on them
- use some cold (ice/shower/river/etc.)
- pop my blisters and tend them well
- decide to do shorter stages
- send stuff back home/leave it behind/give it away
- stretch/massage myself some more
- warm up slowly and gently before I go
- use clay/plants/natural stuffs to support the suffering body: lots of different things in this world, check it out... with a doctor or alike!

Pain-free Camino!

 

[naplesdon]

To Marion,
Drink more of what?
Cafe con leche when you can finally find it in the morning,
Water to hydrate during the day,
Vino tinto for your health,
Vino blanco for the hell of it,
and finally vino rose when it's a hot day.
Kas Limon isn't bad either.

 

[trecile]

To Marion,
Drink more of what?
Cafe con leche when you can finally find it in the morning,
Water to hydrate during the day,
Vino tinto for your health,
Vino blanco for the hell of it,
and finally vino rose when it's a hot day.
Kas Limon isn't bad either.

I find tinto de verano very refreshing on a hot day

 

[wayfarer]

To Marion,
Drink more of what?
Cafe con leche when you can finally find it in the morning,
Water to hydrate during the day,
Vino tinto for your health,
Vino blanco for the hell of it,
and finally vino rose when it's a hot day.
Kas Limon isn't bad either.

I find tinto de verano very refreshing on a hot day

I see we have drifted back to the non prescription, over the counter medicine again

 

[Marion-SantiagoInLove]

@biarritzdon
Well, you're absolutely right, I didn't say
So here it is I meant:
Drink more of ...
Water when you can finally find it in the morning,
Water to hydrate during the day,
Water for your health,
Water for the hell of it,
and finally water when it's a hot day.
Water isn't bad either.

 

[PEI_Heather]

A fascinating response. I soothed very sore muscles every afternoon with lots of stinking-hot running water. (I just edited that last sentence. The water was stinking-hot. The water wasn't stinking and hot!) I'm now into yoga to eliminate lingering mild plantar fasciitis. Was told after returning that a magnesium deficiency probably contributed to muscle pain and soreness while under extra stress on the Camino.

You can also try a Strassburg sock, Mike, if it's available in Australia.
Sorry; I don't give any information about medication; I'm not a doctor or pharmacist. The sock is non-medicinal therapy only. (But works!)

 

[PEI_Heather]

In another thread I said watching pre-ring preparations at dog shows was like a visit to the mercardo de brujas...here I would say any given night in an albergue (especially the first third of the walk) is like a street corner in Baltimore. I would gently recommend not trading medication, not exceeding dosages of prescribed/OTC medication, following all of the label warnings (even those surrounding alcohol), and not treating your bunk mate unless you have the appropriate medical degree. Just because it can be bought without prescription, doesn't mean it's safe to take a little extra, or to devise your own treatment schedule. I know in the age of internet it is difficult to believe, but there actually is a reason some people devote quite a lot of time and effort in school to learn the ways to use medication safely.
gosh, it's a big jump down off of this soapbox...er, anyone able to give me a hand?

Move over, @SYates; and @Smallest_Sparrow! I'm joining you up on that soapbox! Lots of room!

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

You can also try a Strassburg sock, Mike, if it's available in Australia.
Sorry; I don't give any information about medication; I'm not a doctor or pharmacist. The sock is non-medicinal therapy only. (But works!)

Yes Strassburg socks are available in Australia from many suppliers. Just search 'Strassburg sock site:au' and you'll get lots of options and prices.

Oh, and I can vouch for it efficacy.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Move over, @SYates; and @Smallest_Sparrow! I'm joining you up on that soapbox! Lots of room!

We're gonna need a bigger soapbox! Count me in/on!

From a previous forum post of mine:

They also recommended RoseHip for any ongoing inflammation and alerted me to Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) review of the safety of the NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory ie ibuprofen, diclofenac and naproxen) following increasing reports of dangerous cardiovascular complications. These medications will carry warnings from next year that they could put people at risk of heart attack and stroke. Even a few weeks of using the drugs could increase a person's risk of a fatal heart attack.

"The TGA said its review found the medications were safe when they were used according to the recommended doses for short durations, as instructed on the label.

However, inappropriate use or overuse of these medicines could pose a significant risk of cardiovascular events and, in the case of diclofenac, (liver toxicity)," it said.

All forms of ibuprofen, diclofenac and naproxen will now carry a warning that using them at high doses can increase your risk of high blood pressure, heart attack and stroke. The warning will state: Do not use for more than a few days at a time unless a doctor has told you to. Do not exceed the recommended dose. Excessive use can be harmful and increase the risk of heart attack, stroke or liver damage.

Most medications will be expected to carry the label by July 2016, although some have been given an extension until January 2017."

 

[Mike Trebert]

Thanks Heather and Meri. I wasn't aware of the Strassburg Sock, have found sellers here in Oz, will give it a go. I'll try not to get them tangled in my walking poles.