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Pack spraying

Discussion in 'Bed Bugs' started by mariam88, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    probably a silly question but do you recommend spraying inside of pack as well as the outside? Thanks.
     
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  2. Anniesantiago

    Anniesantiago Veteran Member

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    I only spray the outside of my pack.
    So far, so good.
     
  3. Jules67

    Jules67 Starting my Camino April 2017

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    oh no.. is this something else i'm yet to think of?? No one mentioned spraying packs to me before...
     
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  4. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    waste of time, and just exposing oneself needlessly to toxins.....
     
  5. Jules67

    Jules67 Starting my Camino April 2017

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    Im with you Mark.. I don't use insect repellent.. None work and they're all harmful toxins to us all.. eat lots of garlic instead
     
  6. falcon269

    falcon269 sidra; no commercial interests

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    Yes. Kill the bugs in the cargo hold while flying home.
     
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  7. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    In and out it is. Normally I wouldn't bother but I'm going to see my parents straight after Santiago and I would hate to bring some guests :(
     
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  8. Jules67

    Jules67 Starting my Camino April 2017

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    I don't want to bring them home either but I hate those sprays. I'll check out the herbalists.
     
  9. Jules67

    Jules67 Starting my Camino April 2017

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    What date are you setting off Mariam?
     
  10. falcon269

    falcon269 sidra; no commercial interests

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    Definition: herbalist - someone with bedbugs.
     
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  11. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    Hi Jules, I start 6th April
     
  12. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    I actually laughed out loud ;)
     
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  13. Jules67

    Jules67 Starting my Camino April 2017

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  14. CumbresTrekker

    CumbresTrekker Member Donating Member

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    Hi Jules, was already planning to spray my packs (front and back inside and outside) with the Health Ranger's Bugs Away the natural way with no toxic chemicals. Ingredients are: Certified Organic Witch Hazel, Citronella, Eucalyptus, Lavender, Tea Tree, Litsea, and Patchouli. Source is at website: http://HealthRangerStore.com. Tel is 1-888-959-6415.
    Product at: https://www.healthrangerstore.com/products/bugs-away-spray-8-oz?variant=16535617985

    Buena Suerte y Buen Camino, CT
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  15. Mikel Olivares

    Mikel Olivares Active Member

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    I, whenever possible, hang the backpack from a rope away from the ground.
    The Camino passes through rural areas and livestock and leave the backpack on the ground in these areas, to rest, eat or take photos can be a little "dangerous"
     
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  16. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    120+ days on the CF...no cancer causing toxins and no herbs or oils....and no bedbugs!
    definition of that? the average pilgrim experience in regards to bedbugs
    prospective pilgrims beware....to somewhat steal from Twain, "the reports of bedbugs on the Camino (by some members of this forum) are greatly exaggerated" :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2017
  17. Mikel Olivares

    Mikel Olivares Active Member

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    I have done 5 French and 1 Portuguese Camino and never had problems with bedbugs. I have seen them in other pilgrims but a few times . And I insist, in the area of Castilla Leon, livestock areas.
     
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  18. Saint Mike II

    Saint Mike II Vetran Member Donating Member

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    Yes - I have given my pack the full treatment - those little bed bugs will try to get into any spot. Just let the pack thoroughly air after spraying - maybe even leave it in the sun for a day or so. Cheers
     
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  19. I would be afraid of doing damage to the pack.

    I used to use DEET and it was a misery whenever it got into contact with any plastics ...
     
  20. Paddy Brock

    Paddy Brock Paddy J Brock Ireland

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    Just put your Backpack into the freezer for 3 days on your return and it will solve any problems
     
  21. Dave C.

    Dave C. Active Member

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    I have been using permethrin on all of my gear (packs, down and synthetic sleeping bags, clothes, tents) for years. No sign of any degradation. As long as you let it air dry outdoors there is no toxic effect. I have never used any natural products for this purpose, but I suggest you use what works for you and what you feel comfortable using. This is just my experience.
     
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  22. Dave C.

    Dave C. Active Member

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    That reminds me. I leave in two weeks and I need to reapply to all of my gear.
     
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  23. JennyH94

    JennyH94 Pilgrim in progress Donating Member

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    Hi Mike - good thought but I read somewhere else on the Forum to keep the sprayed items out of the direct sunlight as (from memory) it breaks down the chemicals which will mean its effectiveness will be reduced ... This is confirmed in Item 6 on the Debugger Concentrate Pack which says "Keep impregnated items in sealed plastic bags and avoid direct sunlight to maximise effectiveness - a bit difficult with hiking gear and backpack!
    The instructions also say to lay the sprayed items on a plastic sheet and allow to dry in a well ventilated area. Avoid direct sunlight. Another reason might be if the items are dried in direct sunlight there could be a residue that might show up if the item was dried very quickly.
    I hope this helps.
    Ban the Bedbugs!!!
    Cheers - Jenny
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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  24. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    Typhoid Mary did not believe the science either.
     
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  25. Hutton24

    Hutton24 Active Member

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    If you aren't stopping in those areas and only walking through then it should not be a problem particularly if you are not going onto land or enclosures where live stock are. Watch where you place your pack if you do stop for a rest/meal - we never had a problem. Never saw a bedbug and hope I don't this time either. Common sense prevails though.
     
  26. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    @Paddy Brock 3 days in a normal freezer is not enough - it has to be enough time, and cold enough, to penetrate through everything. I put my pack (with all the gear inside) into a chest deep freeze for a month. That is probably excessive, but I'm taking no chances. The other way of dealing with it is to put everything, dry, into a commercial dryer on high heat for 30 minutes. I've also done that. Surprisingly, if everything is dry it does seem to hurt anything - down quilts, merino wool.
     
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  27. J Willhaus

    J Willhaus Active Member

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    There is an excellent camino podcast on the forum by a bedbug researcher. It is #24 in Dave W.'s podcasts. Dr. Potter explains a lot of the myths and why chemicals don't really work with bedbugs. He answers a lot of questions.
     
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  28. Dave C.

    Dave C. Active Member

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    I cannot say for sure if Permethrin works for bedbugs (not sure if I have been exposed), but I can say for certain it works for mosquitoes, fleas and chiggers.
     
  29. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    The only surefire killer for bedbugs is heat or cold. Deet does deter them, but it has to be strong enough and smelly enough - it's the smell they don't like - and, as someone above said, it's destructive of some materials like plastics.

    Here's the EPA article on permethrin treated clothing and whether it is safe for humans:
    https://www.epa.gov/insect-repellents/repellent-treated-clothing
     
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  30. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    Permethrin is not a solution because it is not an instant kill and they are becoming resistant, but probably the best practical preventative that we currently have.

    Pyrethrum (the natural spray made from chrysanthemum) I have found in practice to work, but it breaks down very quickly. I'll be taking a little bottle of spray to use anyway, as I find it useful for mosquitoes and flies.

    Here's an article about essential oils and bedbugs: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/essential-oils-fail-killing-bed-bugs/
     
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  31. fenix

    fenix Nevertheless, she persists

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    On the camino norte 2 years ago, my partner and I stayed in a mix of albergues and private accommodations. We shared the same sleeping space, usually the same bed, every night. I was brutally attacked 3 times by bed bugs - miserable for a week each time. My partner never felt a thing.

    Someone saying they completed x number of caminos and have never been bitten does not mean they have never encountered beg bugs or been bitten and that bed bugs aren't a real problem on the camino. It merely means that they are not allergic to bed bug bites.

    Handled correctly, and properly and fully dried, Permethrin has little to no human toxicity. And it does not damage clothing or gear like Deet. I will treat my pack inside and out this time, and my silk sleep sack. I'm considering carrying a treated tyvek undersheet, at least a half-size one to drape over the front half of the bed contacting the wall/headboard.

    Another solution for the backpack is to physically block their entry. I use a Zpack airline duffel, only 3.8 oz (I always check my backpack). During the walk, it multitasks as a personal tarp "sit-upon", and at night I put my backpack in it (especially if there is no way to hang my backpack off the floor). This also makes it easy to grab all my stuff early in the morning, throw it in the duffel with the pack, and exit quietly to the common room to organize and leave.
     
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  32. Camino Chris

    Camino Chris Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Me, too...and ditto.
     
  33. Camino Chris

    Camino Chris Veteran Member Donating Member

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    I use a 2 foot square piece of tyvek for a sitpad when having a snack or lunch outdoors. Weighs virtually nothing and folds up to nothing, but has no cushioning. I like your idea of using treated tyvek on the wall as extra critter protection!
     
  34. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    Nah...actually never was bitten. I think I would know if I was, right?
    Never carried any around in my stuff either. Would know that, too.
    Trust me, I'm a bit familiar with bedbugs. Fleas. Ticks. Lice. Cockroaches. Rats. Mice. Even poisonous snakes (rattlers, moccasins). Encountered all those wonderful creatures at one time or another whilst in residences as a cop for many, many years.
    I've been in houses with CPS doing a removal or investigation and seen beds covered with bedbug signs. Seen children with the bites. Same with fleas. Been in residences where I looked down at my uniform pants (khaki) and saw the lower leg portion covered in fleas (quick dash to the patrol car to give my pants legs a coating of "Off" spray we kept in the trunk). Yeah, yuck.
    Not an expert, but definitely not unfamiliar with them. I always gave the albergues I stayed in a once over before I slept in them. I have a criteria that has to be met, or otherwise, adios and down the road I go and find another one.
    I'm sure that somewhere along the Camino there are bedbugs at an albergue. I just never saw any, nor did I meet any fellow pilgrims on the Camino who had. That's why I think it's not a matter for a prospective pilgrim to fret about or to even take into their Camino planning. ;)
     
  35. fenix

    fenix Nevertheless, she persists

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    Not necessarily.
    https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/bedbugs/faqs.html


    How do I know if I’ve been bitten by a bed bug?
    It is hard to tell if you’ve been bitten by a bed bug unless you find bed bugs or signs of infestation. When bed bugs bite, they inject an anesthetic and an anticoagulant that prevents a person from realizing they are being bitten. Most people do not realize they have been bitten until bite marks appear anywhere from one to several days after the initial bite. The bite marks are similar to that of a mosquito or a flea -- a slightly swollen and red area that may itch and be irritating. The bite marks may be random or appear in a straight line. Other symptoms of bed bug bites include insomnia, anxiety, and skin problems that arise from profuse scratching of the bites.

    Because bed bug bites affect everyone differently, some people may have no reaction and will not develop bite marks or any other visible signs of being bitten. Other people may be allergic to the bed bugs and can react adversely to the bites. These allergic symptoms can include enlarged bite marks, painful swellings at the bite site, and, on rare occasions, anaphylaxis.




    Also, we can diligently check areas, but they can be missed.....


    Where are bed bugs found?
    Bed bugs are found across the globe from North and South America, to Africa, Asia and Europe. Although the presence of bed bugs has traditionally been seen as a problem in developing countries, it has recently been spreading rapidly in parts of the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and other parts of Europe. Bed bugs have been found in five-star hotels and resorts and their presence is not determined by the cleanliness of the living conditions where they are found.

    Bed bug infestations usually occur around or near the areas where people sleep. These areas include apartments, shelters, rooming houses, hotels, cruise ships, buses, trains, and dorm rooms. They hide during the day in places such as seams of mattresses, box springs, bed frames, headboards, dresser tables, inside cracks or crevices, behind wallpaper, or any other clutter or objects around a bed. Bed bugs have been shown to be able to travel over 100 feet in a night but tend to live within 8 feet of where people sleep.
     
  36. trecile

    trecile Veteran Member Donating Member

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    I only knew that I was bitten by a bedbug because I could see the bites (three in a row) on my leg. They didn't itch or bother me at all. Had they been on a part of my body that I couldn't see, I would never have known.
     
  37. jsalt

    jsalt Jill Donating Member

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    Hi, this reminds me of sitting on the side of the bed in an “eco lodge”, applying some of their free citronella anti-mosquito cream to my feet, and immediately afterwards watching fascinated as a mosquito settled on my foot and commenced to suck out some blood :eek:;)
    Jill
     
  38. Davie Blisters

    Davie Blisters Ministry of Silly Walks

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    ...now, do you see what you have done Mariam? :D
     
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  39. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    Oops!
    From reading all the different threads, my conclusions would be bed bugs aren't a problem, except when they are; permethrin might be toxic but probably only if applied topically (so don't :) ); natural remedies may or may not work and some very lucky people out there are anathema to critters. So, I'll spray my pack and put my faith in the gods :)
     
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  40. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    Lol, citronella seems to be a seasoning for our local mozzies
     
  41. Saint Mike II

    Saint Mike II Vetran Member Donating Member

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    Hi Jenny - thanks for the heads-up. I have sprayed inside and out - and the pack is now hanging in the garage drying/airing prior to packing commencement!!.
     
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  42. Banjo&Matilda

    Banjo&Matilda New Member

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    HI Mike, can you please tell me what your criteria is? I want a new perspective on what to look out for when it is my turn to do the Camino. thanks.
     
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  43. SYates

    SYates Camino Fossil AD 1999

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    Will not make an impression on one single bed bug - much less keep them away from your gear.
    Buen Camino, SY
     
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  44. jpflavin1

    jpflavin1 Veteran Member

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    Mariam88:

    I hang my back pack and sleeping bag from the rafters in my garage and spray them with permethian (sp.) two days before departure. I leave them to dry out for 24 hours. I only spray the outside.

    Ultreya,
    Joe
     
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  45. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    First and foremost an overall cleanliness of the albergue. The floors. The walls. The bathrooms. The kitchen and common area as well. No musty, old looking couches and chairs.
    I want to stay in albergue that has mattresses on the bunks that are of the industrial variety. You know, vinyl or rubber covered. Like you see in a hospital. The pillows, too. The bed/bunk frames are clean and newer looking, metal preferably, but clean, newer wooden type are good, too.
    I would definitely try to stay away from the ones with older, traditional cloth covered type mattresses. No way could they ever really be cleaned like the vinyl or rubber type. I've seen some albergues where the older type mattress has stains on it...ugh. ha ha.
    I overslept one morning at an albergue in Logrono (too much vino y tapas). It had rubber/vinyl covered mattresses and I was woken up by the woman cleaning them. She had her pump spray in hand and a towel.
    I also prefer the bunks to be away from the walls. Less chance of something crawling up and giving you an unwanted visit, ha ha.
    I guess this is typical of the albergues I prefer:
    Camino again 053.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2017
  46. falcon269

    falcon269 sidra; no commercial interests

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    Herbalists may make the world a better place, and that is a good thing. They won't stop bedbugs. Science will. If the question is about bedbug protection, go with the science. If the question is making the world a better place, go with herbs (and live with bedbugs).
     
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  47. CumbresTrekker

    CumbresTrekker Member Donating Member

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    Given your statement, I contacted the customer service (CS) folks at the manufacturer/marketer of Bugs Away (BA) considering that for two years I have effectively used it for repelling mosquitos and deer ticks. The CS folks recommended using a different all natural product for backpacks against bed bugs, Bug Defender (BD). BD info at: https://www.healthrangerstore.com/c...fender-bug-spray-8oz-236ml?variant=2779543712

    The product description specifically mentions bed bugs as target insects.

    Unless I find a better all natural repellent, I plan to use BA on my person while on the CF and BD on my gear. The CS folks recommend spraying the BD on the backpack 3 hours before it can be effective.

    Buen Camino, CT
     
  48. falcon269

    falcon269 sidra; no commercial interests

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    Bug Defender

    There is no evidence that cedar oil is an effective insecticide or repellent. It will not be tested by the FDA or EPA because:

    "This product has not been registered by the United States Environmental Protection Agency due to being a Minimum Risk Pesticide. Health Ranger Store represents that this product qualifies for Exemption from Registration under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act."
     
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  49. trecile

    trecile Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Looks like the Cedar Oil that that company relies on doesn't work
    https://www.zappbug.com/cedar-oil-work-bed-bugs/
    http://www.rentokil.co.uk/blog/will-cedar-oil-kill-bed-bugs/
     
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  50. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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  51. Banjo&Matilda

    Banjo&Matilda New Member

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    Thanks for sharing your experiences!
     
  52. Dandabika

    Dandabika New Member

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    I'm a Canadian and live in Ontario where black flies, mosquitos and all other form of very annoying bugs eat a part of me everyday except during the winter. If you think natural insect repellants work, well, knock yourself out trying them out. If you really believe natural repellants work, go to a malaria infested country and try the natural repellants there; you'll die trying. I've been infected with malaria once, so I know a thing or two about bugs now. If you carry home some bedbugs, you'll soon find out the only cure is to fumigate your entire house plus have to deal with every piece of clothing in it. If you think applying a little bit of insecticide to your pack is bad, try soaking basically your entire house and its contents in it. You won't die if you are near some lightweight insecticide on your pack. Next time you look at a cash crop farm, think of the insecticide level you are right next to. You can get philosophical about insecticides, but if you want to risk your health with bug infestation, enjoy your newfound friends and all that they can infect you with. Oh, and by the way, once you're infected, be sure to refuse any non natural treatments, you'll really enjoy the outcome.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
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  53. Dandabika

    Dandabika New Member

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    I've stayed at $1,000 a night places and ended up with scabies plus bedbugs. Price has nothing to do with insects or guarantees against them. Using true and tested insecticides on your baggage, you lessen your chances of carrying some home or some along with you. Keep all your stuff in your baggage all the time and lessen the chance of any hitchhiking onto your stuff and into your luggage. If and once you or your bag is infected go nuclear on them with every product that sounds repulsive and difficult to pronounce. Nothing else works. Been there, done that and still alive to tell you about it.
     
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  54. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    I've walked the Camino multiple times (over 120 days on it) and never had any issues with any insects on it, and never carried with me or applied on myself or equipment any type of repellent.
    No bedbug bites and none brought home in equipment.
    No ticks.
    No fleas.
    No mosquitoes.
    Did see some houseflies...big deal. See them everywhere.
    Did walk through some small gnats once. Lasted about five minutes. Big deal.
    Did see some horseflies when walking past livestock, and I think one bit me on the shin. No big deal.
    I lived and worked for over five years overseas in a country listed on the CDC as at risk for contracting Malaria, and also resided there in somewhat austere living conditions where fleas and bedbugs (also scorpions and spiders) were a possibility. Walking the Camino and hanging my hat in an albergue for the night is quite tame nature wise.
    The whole insect thing on the Camino is brought up way too much on this forum, and too much concern is put towards it. I think it's a non-issue and a cause of undo concern for prospective pilgrims reading the threads.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2017
  55. Dandabika

    Dandabika New Member

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    You are right. I've spent over 4 years in France and have yet to come across any bed bugs or other nasty bugs there, but that doesn't mean they are not there. The gites and albergues go through a great deal of trouble to avoid them and to control their possible infestations not without reason. Doesn't mean France nor Spain are immune to any future infestations. You can take your chances, I still protect my bags with insecticides. I've travelled the world over for over 45 years now and trekked many trails, including the GR65. It's easier to list where I haven't been that to list where I've been. Here's my bottom line: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
     
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  56. Dandabika

    Dandabika New Member

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    Here is one product that is recommended by another Compostelle blog. I've used it. Didn't die or got sick because of it. Fulgator has 2 other products that are compatible with luggage. Check it out for yourself. Available at Leclerc stores in France and here: https://www.amazon.fr/Fulgator-Parasitaire-Spécial-Parasites-Actif/dp/B008MT0VDM
     

    Attached Files:

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  57. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    Yeah, but walking the Camino, specifically the Frances route is hardly trail trekking. It's really just a series of long walks on mostly improved, or semi improved surfaces between towns, villages and cities. I have never approached walking it the same way I approached actual backpacking in wilderness areas like I did when younger, or long humps when I was in the military. Those situations I did encounter insects. Nasty biting ones. Mosquitoes. Redbugs/chiggers. Ticks. Centepides. Scorpions. Ants. Spiders. Deer flies. Even leeches. We always carried "bug dope" (DEET) with us. Never put it on our equipment (it was in a small plastic bottle and melted some synthetics and plastics), just smeared it on our exposed skin.
    I prefer to take my chemically free chances now in regards to bugs.
    que sera, sera.....:cool:
     
  58. Elizabeth-o

    Elizabeth-o Member

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    So, having been on the Camino twice and bitten both times in spite of spraying my pack (inside and outside) as well as all my clothing and gear, all I can say is that those pesky things like some people more than others.

    After doing a lot of research, I found that you might not know immediately after you have been bitten. It could take up to several days for the bites to show up. Therefore, it might be difficult to pinpoint where/how you have been bitten.

    I was pretty disgusted both times, but the good news is that I didn't bring any home either time. I unpacked outside and treated my backpack, however, upon getting home by placing it in the deep freeze AND sprinkling it with a chalky substance called diatomaceous earth.

    The other good news is that the Camino is worth it...

    Buen Camino, peregrina!


     
  59. Tay

    Tay New Member

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    I had bed bugs a couple of years ago. I took my feather pillow with me to stay at a friends house and seemed to pick them up there. Unfortunately, it was too late and I brought them home with me. They had a habit if biting me on my neck, so I would scratch and it would swell a little and look pretty suspicious. Eventually I didn't want to fog my room and as I'm a research chemist and work with nasty chemicals all day, I looked for a 'natural' alternative. So, I stuffed my pillow in a black plastic packet and left it in the sun in my flat for the day. My bed I doused with tea tree oil. A lot. This agrivated my chest a fair bit however, but after a while they died.

    But just to note, even 'natural' alternatives (I can have a whole rant about this) in high enough concentrations can cause problems. I'm very conscious of what I put on my skin and wash my clothes with, but I sprayed my bag with permethrin and made sure it dried well. I don't want to relive the bed bug saga I experienced. So lets see if it works. In general, I'd be more worried about taking meds, like ibuprofen everyday for 30 days straight.

    Everything in moderation...
     
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  60. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    Yeah, other people have already told me that on here, but I can honestly say I was never bitten by a bedbug. I've been bitten and stung enough times in my life by different kinds of insects (and even a jellyfish) that I would know if I had. I never had any mysterious bite welts appear days later. No bite welts at all. My only painful experiences on the Camino involved too much wine or beer, and really bad chapped lips from the hot sun (don't forget your lip balm, dammit! ;) ).
    Like I said, there was that horsefly on the Camino that nailed me on the calf. Those suckers hurt, but that one bite was hardly worth stinking myself up with DEET over.
     
  61. BobM

    BobM Veteran Member

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    To Do Via Egnatia (Durres - Thessaloniki); INT & Jerusalem Trail (Tel Aviv - Jerusalem)
    I did not get bed bug bites on the Camino Frances, but I did (once) on the Via Podiensis (GR65). But not on any of the other pilgrimages I have done. On the Via Podiensis I had to sleep on the kitchen floor to escape the stentorian snorers in my room, so I put my self in harm's way.

    In my case the bites became noticeable when I had a shower the next night. I sleep only in my underwear, so that gave the little critters easy access to my delectable flesh and blood.:eek:

    The bites (over 60 by my count) itched badly for about a week and it was a test of willpower not to scratch them. But I am alive (and healthy) to tell the tale, which is the main point.:)

    The bites itch basically because the bugs inject chemicals so the bitee (you) does not notice the bugs feeding. That's why some folks like me get an allergic reaction to the bites. So, if you suffer from allergies you might need to be more careful than other people.

    As for spraying, there is a risk/benefit tradeoff to think about: All effective insecticides carry risk (after all, they are designed to kill), especially those containing DEET (make sure you read up on DEET before using it with abandon).

    Personally, I prefer to take the small risk (in my experience) of bed bug bites rather than using chemical sprays on my stuff.

    Bob M
     
  62. BobM

    BobM Veteran Member

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    To Do Via Egnatia (Durres - Thessaloniki); INT & Jerusalem Trail (Tel Aviv - Jerusalem)
    I like the way you think.;)
    Here is something I bet your doctor never told you about warfarin: According to Wikipeda , Warfarin first came into commercial use in 1948 as a rat poison. Basically, the rats bled to death internally. Nice! :eek:

    Bob M
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  63. Addicted

    Addicted Member

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    Did spray bag inside and out. Was a natural product only sold in the US. Was able to have it imported into Canada in 2016 but due to Labelling issues they no longer ship to Canada for this year . Have enough for me to trip in Sept. all natural smell of Cedar and seems to have worked
     
  64. as gaillimh

    as gaillimh Active Member

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    Why??
     
  65. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    Why a) "silly question" or b) why spray?
    If a) because I have no idea about spraying/bed bugs
    If b) I'm staying with my parents straight after the Camino and mum has a horror of bed bugs ( grew up in Spain in the 40s - not a good time if your family was republican - poverty and bed bugs rife!). They're in an apartment so no handy garage or garden to leave my kit. I don't like spraying stuff unnecessarily but if it gives her peace of mind ... :)
     
  66. mariahiles

    mariahiles New Member

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    Nope, that won't work. They hibernate in the cold. Only extreme heat kills them.
     
  67. Margaux Oliver

    Margaux Oliver New Member

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  68. Margaux Oliver

    Margaux Oliver New Member

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    Great idea about the plastic tarp & plastic sack to put your ruckshack in! I did spray my clothes (not underwear), sleeping bag & the outside of my pack with Permethrin before I left on my Canino Frances journey last May. I did read up about this pesticide, called the EPA and the manufacturer too. In the end, I did use the stuff & did let everything dry in the sun -- didn't know it would diminish the effectiveness. When I returned from the Camino, I undressed before entering the house and put everything -- pack too -- in a dark plastic garbage bag. It was in the 90s in Indianapolis when I returned home. I put that garbage bag in my trunk & let it stay in my hot trunk for about a month. Then I washed everything in hot water. Some recommend getting your pack dry cleaned. Mine is still in my trunk! I did end up with bites on my arm but in hindsight, I think it was from a large fly who was an uninvited roommate in a private albergue room.
     
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  69. trecile

    trecile Veteran Member Donating Member

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  70. Oregon's Mark

    Oregon's Mark New Member

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    Will you share what you do in a "once over"/
     
  71. Mark Lee

    Mark Lee Guest

    Someone else asked that same question to me on this thread, and I answered it and attached a photo of what I personally like an albergue sleeping area to look like. It's about 26-27 posts up (prior). Wow, a lotta posts on here, ha ha.
    Anyway, to me, and I know this sounds odd, I like the sleeping area to look almost institutionally clean. Rubber/vinyl coated mattresses and pillows. Disposable sheets on them. etc. Metal, or newer, more modern wood bed frames. Floors, walls and baseboards clean. You know, pretty basic stuff.
     
  72. mariam88

    mariam88 New Member

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    Well, I sprayed my stuff and walked and ... no bed bugs :). The municipal albergues all had plastic covers on mattresses and disposable paper sheets and pillowcases which was great, the private ones were a mix of everything but I followed the advice and inspected the beds carefully before unpacking and never saw a sign.
     
  73. JoP

    JoP New Member

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    Did it work?
     
  74. Addicted

    Addicted Member

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    I just completed the Camino Norte. I sprayed my sleeping liner ( that's all I used ) as well as my pack. I did not experience a single bite, nor did my wife.
    I did the same on the Primitivo, French, Muxia, Portuguese, ant Finisterra. My wife may have had one bite on the French but that is up for debate. The product is 100 percent natural. The active ingredient is Ceder oil. Smells like cedar and is actually a product used to spray pets for fleas.
    I will tell you that I personally met several people on the Norte ( and travelled with some ) that had 50 or more bites. They seemed to be a real problem on the Norte in Sept 2017. Some were even taking videos of the bugs on the beds .
    In addition I do not used any blankets from the albergues , I only use my liner which was not the case with others that were badly bitten
    The product is made in the USA and is called Wondercide . It specifically mentions bed bugs. I hope I have not broken any rules here, just trying to assist. I first saw the product on " Shark Tank " in 2015 and have used it since on every Camino .
     
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  75. Addicted

    Addicted Member

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  76. Addicted

    Addicted Member

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    I agree with not fretting, I too give the albergue a quick inspection and on two occasions walked out to select another. Not using the blankets may also be a reason why we do so well. Bugs will be around regardless of how well everyone tries to stop them. Be smart , be cautious, and do a Camino .
     
  77. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    @Addicted I'm interested but skeptical. Can you point to any independent scientific testing of the product? I can only find information with its source from the manufacturer.
     
  78. Addicted

    Addicted Member

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    Glad you looked into it but the short answer is no, I found no independent research to support ( or rebuff ) the claims . In all fairness I did not look for additional info. Like you I was skeptical . I would rather dunk my bag in permetherin but my wife will not allow it. Lol
    Again, to be completely fair, we are careful in other ways , not using blankets at the albergues, having a close look before we stay, and the spray. My wife is very sensitive to almost all bits from just about everything and the spray allows her to sleep at night with a great deal of comfort. The product can be sprayed directly on skin much like a regular repellant. He this helps , if you find out anything negative regarding the product please let me know. My only research is several Caminos, almost every night in an albergue ( some not great ) and no bits while others around me seem to get them .
     
  79. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    I found research that says Cedar oil has a repellant effect, but it is very short term. Once the volatile oils evaporate so does the repellant effect. So only good for 30 minutes or so. Similar to citronella. There seems to be a lot of current research in finding ways of fixing the smell to make it long lasting. Until they do, DEET is still the gold standard.

    In terms of killing bed bugs, this is from the website of a commercial pest control company (Rentokil UK). For all kinds of commercial reasons they would be very pleased to find a "natural" alternative (although permethrin mimics the natural pyrethrum). The article explains the problem well:

    "Hot water, cedar oil, orange oil, essential oils of every description, paraffin and extra virgin olive oil are all natural remedies for killing bed bugs. But here's the bugbear. They will only work if you get it on the insect. And therein lies the problem.

    Many oils will kill bed bugs, as they will many different insects, but they offer only what is termed as a ‘contact kill’. The issue with treating bed bugs is getting to the ones you can’t find. That’s why DDT was so good, it’s a residual killer- it remains chemically active on whatever you spray it on for some time after the treatment. A residual kill strategy is still the method the pest control industry uses, only with reduced success as the chemicals breakdown faster. Insecticide residues are not seen as something desirable in the home these days.

    Oils and similar products don’t act chemically; instead they physically suffocate the insects by blocking the spiracles. If you don’t get it on the bug they won't pick it up in sufficient quantity from the furniture to suffocate themselves. Bed bugs are so cryptic that professionals don’t get always get all of them first time around with the chemicals we use that act with both contact and residual effects. Without being too ‘pro-industry’, amateurs stand very little chance of eradicating a population of bed bugs in their homes with over-the-counter chemicals.

    [​IMG]We’ve tested oils for residual kill effect against bed bugs and they don’t kill any. By which I mean zero bugs die. If you miss a single gravid female, your treatment fails: you still have bed bugs. That’s why we don’t use those products and insist on follow-up calls to mop up newly hatched nymphs and any cryptic stragglers.

    It raises an interesting point though. There are companies that use Orange Oil to treat drywood termites in the US. Orange Oil is a contact kill product. They market themselves heavily as a ‘natural’ , ‘holistic’ and ‘green’ company. Which they are. However, what their business is actually unpinned with is not the oil, many things give a contact kill, but the training they give their staff. If you train your staff well, really well, they can find more termites than other companys' staff. And if can they find more, they can kill more. Easy.

    So, yeah. Cedar oil will kill bed bugs but be sure to invest hundreds of hours searching out, observing, and treating infestations and breaking down all furniture into component parts before you use it to ensure best results.

    Bed bugs could also be hiding in the walls or the floor. Alternatively, heat treatment will eradicate all bed bugs in one hit, without the need to go searching for each and every little blood sucker or leaving any residues."
     
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  80. falcon269

    falcon269 sidra; no commercial interests

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    Cedar oil does not work. If you like the smell, use it. But be sure to do something that keeps you from taking the bedbugs home!!
     

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