Reserving albergue with a credit card

[ChrissyandElise]

Hello pilgrims! My daughter and I are planning our first Camino in May (SJPP to SDC), love this community, we've learned so much from all of you. We're having so much fun planning backpacks and removing ounces here and there.

Today's question - I'm currently booking our first 3 nights (only) just so we can get used to everything. The rest of the trip we'll figure out as we walk. One albergue has let me know via email that they have availability, and asked me to email back my credit card number to reserve. This feels awkward sending through email. They suggested I can instead send it via WhatsApp.

Is this normal? When reserving rooms even a day or two in advance on the Camino, do you reserve with a credit card via WhatsApp and assume this is safe? Thank you for your help.

 

[J Willhaus]

I ran into that this winter with 2 albergues when I was reserving for a large group. I called and verbally gave them my credit card number. My email is not encrypted, but WhatsApp is supposedly encrypted. Normally they don't run your card until you arrive (or don't show up). Many smaller albergues don't have the resources for a "secure" online reservation process. Some people prefer to use Booking.com because they feel their card info may be more secure, however, there have been some scams with Booking.com, too.

Basically, I think this "asking for a card" practice is being adopted because some people make a reservation and then don't show up. The albergue is in the position that they are turning people away because they think the bed is sold and then the pilgrim doesn't show and sometimes doesn't even call. A few years ago, some girls told my husband (when he was working at a hospitalero) that they often made multiple reservations and then just picked the one they wanted at the end of the day...

You have to do what feels right for you. Maybe chose someplace else or arrange to call them with the number instead of sending it email or WhatsApp?

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, @ChrissyandElise, welcome to the forum!

WhatsApp has end-to-end encryption, so it should be safe. Like you, though, I feel funny sending my CC number through any electronic means of communication. I typically call and give my numbers, but you may not have access to a cheap way to contact Spain by phone. The other option is to have a CC that you use only for these types of transactions, so that if it gets compromised, the consequences are minimal. So many free CC options out there, that that should be easy.

 

[Jarrad]

I don't reserve in advance very much, but I have found that a few places requested credit card info via email. I admit that it made me uncomfortable, but have done it a couple of times and had no problems with identity theft, etc. That said, whenever possible I call and ask if I can give them my information over that phone. Nerd Wallet has some great tips on emailing credit card numbers here.

 

[markie6]

For the days I book beds ( SJPDP & Roncesvalles) I have booked them from home thru their own booking systems. If I had to use a card, I would probably make it a debit card which often only has minimal amount of spare cash in it, just for peace of mind.

Others who book more day to day will probably give you the best advice

 

[trecile]

If I had to use a card, I would probably make it a debit card which often only has minimal amount of spare cash in it, just for peace of mind.

I would only use a credit card because the fraud protection is greater with credit cards than debit cards.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

If I had to use a card, I would probably make it a debit card which often only has minimal amount of spare cash in it, just for peace of mind.

Others who book more day to day will probably give you the best advice

Actually, that is excellent advice. I strongly encourage the use of a Edited to add: specialised Travel debit card for the camino ( or travel in general) because it adds an extra layer of security.This is not connected to /able to access my normal accounts. Even if your card is compromised, any loss is limited to what you currently have on the card. For me that's never more than a maximum of 500 euros. Many debit cards - or at least the travel versions - also have an app.
Personally I ( and a number of others here on the forum) use a Wise card. The app sends me a notification every time I charged something to it, plus I can lock it it any stage, and simply release the lock prior to using it on the next occasion.
In addition to which you can also load it with multiple currencies should you be travelling somewhere else either before or after your Camino.
Incidentally, the exchange rate is one of the best that you will get.
I actually use my Wise card for all of my online reservations and purchases for exactly those reasons.

Edited to add: @trecile has an excellent point. That said , if used as suggested by @markie6 and myself, any loss would be minimal. And as you will be carrying your credit card anyway - so you can load additional funds to your debit card and as a backup - it would only be an annoyance.

 

[Jay Es]

Whilst I've neve done the Frances, I've done the Via de la Plata, the Northern Route, pat of the Portuguese and am walking the Mozarabe at the moment. I've never reserved with a credit card. I know the Frances will be popular and you'll be rareing to go and worried about getting accomodation but I wonder what others experience of booking much in advance of a couple of days is at that time of year

 

[trecile]

Here's an article about credit cards vs debit cards, and which are safer to use.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/credit-card-vs-debit-card-safer-online-purchases

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Interesting article @trecile , I see I have clearly been using the term debit card too loosely.
I also see I'm going to have to do further research. I must ascertain what is included in my Wise card agreement.

One important takeaway for me was that the key difference is that with the credit card the card issuer must fight to get its money back whereas with a debit card you must fight to get your money back.

I do note that according to the article that if my card is not physically lost or stolen I have 60 days to report fraudulent transactions with ZERO liability. So another words using it online is pretty safe so long as you keep an eye on your account. Which ideally fits the OP's scenario.

If I physically lost it and didn't realize, my loss would be limited to a maximum of $50 if reported within two days, $500 if reported within 60 days.

In both instances, as the app instantly notifies me of any purchase I would very quickly know if my card / card number was being fraudulently used. So I'd have to be completely incapacitated for me to lose more then $50.

As stated the major advantage of a credit card is that you have zero liability so long as you notify the credit card company.

I guess for me the advantages of my Wise card are that it is a prepaid debit card, completely separate from my normal banking regime, and any funds held on the card are in the currency relevant to the country I am in at the time. This means no issues with exchange rate fluctuations other than directly at the time that I load those funds onto the card. As I always carry some form of secondary card, I would rather carry this then a second credit card.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

They suggested I can instead send it via WhatsApp.

Is this normal? When reserving rooms even a day or two in advance on the Camino, do you reserve with a credit card via WhatsApp and assume this is safe? Thank you for your help.

Well, if you don't like writing it down and sending it via WhatsApp, you can, of course, call them on WhatsApp, and give it to them verbally.

I assume you're booking somewhere that has been used by other pilgrims or you've seen reviews, or something like that. So you believe it's a trustworthy place. Still, I wouldn't be comfortable either. I might do it, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

US-issued credit cards have a lot of fraud protection. What I do with all my credit cards is set up an alert so that I get a text and an email every single time that a credit card is used. So if there's ever an unauthorized use of it, I know right away and I can call and lock it and call the credit card company.

And I have the text alerts set up to go to a Google Voice number so that I can even get that in Spain. And I download the credit card apps on my phone because I can lock it from inside the apps if it's difficult to contact my bank.
Just a little bit paranoid here! I did get scammed once a long time ago, although in the end, the credit card company covered it.

 

[C clearly]

I strongly encourage the use of a debit card for the camino ( or travel in general) because it adds an extra layer of security. Even if your card is compromised, any loss is limited to what you currently have on the card.

I see I have clearly been using the term debit card too loosely.

Yes, for me, a "debit card" is connected directly to my bank account, so it is missing the layer of security that my credit cards have.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I do note that according to the article that if my card is not physically lost or stolen I have 60 days to report fraudulent transactions with ZERO liability. So another words using it online is pretty safe so long as you keep an eye on your account. Which ideally fits the OP's scenario.

Ok, so I've been doing some checking and Wise appears to operate in somewhat of a gray area. So the EFTA regulations in the article provided by @trecile may or may not apply. It's beyond my research abilities !

I've read a huge number of posts on reddit etc, some older ones ( as in, from years ago) were fairly negative, mainly in regard to how long it took to get a refund. Nearly all recent ones very positive about Wise and their refund assistance/ policies in this situation. The only negative ones were involving extraordinary amounts of money, and had basically been affected by the money laundering regulations in the country of origin. So in other words, nothing to do with Wise.

I guess the key takeaway from all of this is is suggested by both @trecile and @Stephan the Painter, your credit card is most likely the safest form of payment, especially if you follow Stephens suggestions and phone.

Of course then you either have to speak Spanish or hope they speak English.... .

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Yes, for me, a "debit card" is connected directly to my bank account, so it is missing the layer of security that my credit cards have.

Thanks, I’ve just edited my post to try and clarify.

 

[ChrissyandElise]

Thank you so much everyone. I appreciate all of your thoughtful replies and suggestions. I ended up WhatsApp-ing the credit card number and just going with it. My bank has been excellent in the past at flagging fraud (actually ping'ed me when I booked the Roncevalle albergue on their website). I'm grateful to be part of this community.

 

[wisepilgrim]

Sending your CC details is never a good idea, regardless of whether it is via an encrypted means or not; the threat is not in it being intercepted along the way. The threat is in how it is stored. Does it stay in WhatsApp on the albergue owners phone? Is it written into a reservation book? There are a dozen possibilities and none of them are secure... and I have seen them all. And if you call them with the details you can be guaranteed that your CC number is now on a piece of paper in a drawer that is unattended most of the day.

Consider it this way: If a hotel owner asks you to send CC details, that owner has in so doing already demonstrated enough carelessness to be trusted with your information.

It is also very unlikely that they are going to do anything to charge your CC, as doing so manually is a great deal more expensive for them (vs a physical scan or swipe), and a manual entry is much easier to dispute. It is more likely that they take the info to give you the impression that they CAN charge you. I don't go for that kind of theatre.

Not to mention that it is not PCI compliant, and that if the owner gets caught they could lose their ability to charge via CC.

 

[Antnix1]

Hello pilgrims! My daughter and I are planning our first Camino in May (SJPP to SDC), love this community, we've learned so much from all of you. We're having so much fun planning backpacks and removing ounces here and there.

Today's question - I'm currently booking our first 3 nights (only) just so we can get used to everything. The rest of the trip we'll figure out as we walk. One albergue has let me know via email that they have availability, and asked me to email back my credit card number to reserve. This feels awkward sending through email. They suggested I can instead send it via WhatsApp.

Is this normal? When reserving rooms even a day or two in advance on the Camino, do you reserve with a credit card via WhatsApp and assume this is safe? Thank you for your help.

Yes, it's possibly theyll ask for a credit card to hold a room. Usually done by phonecall but if you send it by disappearing whatsapp message it's much the same thing.

If you don't want to do that, there's always booking.com.

Some places will take a reservation without a card.

Just to note, reservation or not, if you're arriving late always make a quick call or whatsapp to let them know. If they think you're not coming and it's busy they could give your room away.

 

[Jodean]

The albergues are protecting themselves and I think it is wise that they are now asking for a CC # to reserve a bed/dinner. Thanks to the many pilgrims who reserve a bed and then don't show up. You don't show up, they book your CC.
It is why so many places are using booking dot com now too. Lazy, thoughtless pilgrims have ruined it for the rest of us who are responsible and diligent about canceling ahead of time.
How many times have I read on this forum that people heard a town was booked out completely, yet there were empty beds in their albergue? Taking a CC insures this will happen less often. If people think they will have to pay for a bed (and dinner?) they may think twice about just not showing up without canceling.

 

[t2andreo]

One alternative approach would be to purchase a pre-paid credit card, loaded with a nominal amount of money. Use that card ONLY to make advance accommodation reservations.

If everything goes well, spend the money stored on the card when you get home. If something goes seriously amiss, you are only exposed to the amount you pre-loaded on the card.

BIG IF - check to see if a US / CN purchased card can be used in another country. Logically it should, but one never knows. Check first. I would like to be corrected if I am incorrect.

Don't forget to figure out how to set a 4-digit PIN, so you might be able to use the card at and ATM other point-of-purchase device. Check up-front if the card can be used in a foreign ATM.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[pjacobi]

*NEVER* send credit card information by e-mail!

I've made reservations by e-mail, but then followed up with voice call with credit card information. I'm always nervous calling various countries in Europe, but the person answering the phone always spoke enough English to confirm reservation and take credit card number.


-Paul

 

[RRat]

Hello pilgrims! My daughter and I are planning our first Camino in May (SJPP to SDC), love this community, we've learned so much from all of you. We're having so much fun planning backpacks and removing ounces here and there.

Today's question - I'm currently booking our first 3 nights (only) just so we can get used to everything. The rest of the trip we'll figure out as we walk. One albergue has let me know via email that they have availability, and asked me to email back my credit card number to reserve. This feels awkward sending through email. They suggested I can instead send it via WhatsApp.

Is this normal? When reserving rooms even a day or two in advance on the Camino, do you reserve with a credit card via WhatsApp and assume this is safe? Thank you for your help.

No reservation. Just call it a day around 2 PM and seek lodging. Easy. Never a problem. Get there a little later and no beds available? Call a taxi to take you to the next available. Have driver call ahead for you. He knows what's available and where. Share the taxi with others in same predicament. Happen once to me. One of the best accommodations. They had a unused top floor for pilgrims. And an elevator! Afternoon in a bar filled with locals, hotel guests, and pilgrims. Great fun.

 

[peregrina2000]

Consider it this way: If a hotel owner asks you to send CC details, that owner has in so doing already demonstrated enough carelessness to be trusted with your information.

Michael, it is my experience that there are many small places that have started asking for a CC number to guarantee the reservation. San Martin Pinario has been doing it for years. I think you’re right that in many cases the owners do it just to get a sense that the person is serious about the reservation, like you say it is a pain for them to actually charge it manually. You call that theater, but I think it’s more about having been burned so many times. I have a good friend who owns an albergue in Navarra and has switched to booking precisely for this reason, getting burned so often by people who call and reserve and then don’t show up and don’t even bother to cancel.

So what do you suggest pilgrims do when confronted with this? I just called a hostal on the Via Serrana this morning and was told they wanted my CC as a guarantee. In the past I would have given it, but this time I didn’t because of your post! And what is the solution for the albergue/hostal owners?

And while I’m peppering you with questions, what is PCI compliance?

 

[pjacobi]

And while I’m peppering you with questions, what is PCI compliance?

Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-Paul

 

[wisepilgrim]

Michael, it is my experience that there are many small places that have started asking for a CC number to guarantee the reservation. San Martin Pinario has been doing it for years. I think you’re right that in many cases the owners do it just to get a sense that the person is serious about the reservation, like you say it is a pain for them to actually charge it manually. You call that theater, but I think it’s more about having been burned so many times. I have a good friend who owns an albergue in Navarra and has switched to booking precisely for this reason, getting burned so often by people who call and reserve and then don’t show up and don’t even bother to cancel.

So what do you suggest pilgrims do when confronted with this? I just called a hostal on the Via Serrana this morning and was told they wanted my CC as a guarantee. In the past I would have given it, but this time I didn’t because of your post! And what is the solution for the albergue/hostal owners?

And while I’m peppering you with questions, what is PCI compliance?

What do I suggest?

I would suggest that all pilgrims push back a bit. It’s difficult to do so with language barriers, but informing the hotel that no method of sending details is secure may eventually get through.

There are many very inexpensive solutions for small hotels for both managing reservations and payments. Many allow you to integrate with booking, or not.

For small properties this is a good solution.

Educating pilgrims is another idea, but in most cases it is preaching to the choir. Those that are guilty of no-show are also likely to dispute the charges later when they get home, rendering the whole situation much more expensive for the operator. Chargebacks will set them back 20+ on top of returning the money.

If you operate an Albergue and a digital solution is not for you then change your checkin policy to something like “if we don’t see you or hear from you by 2pm we will give your bed away”.

I am a very big fan of pilgrimage without plans, as much as it is possible. And with that in mind I made the WhatsApp helper in the apps. To compliment this year I built a WhatsApp robot to help Albergue and pension owners broadcast prices and availability in real time to pilgrims. More on that later.

But in the meantime respect and consideration for owners is the best solution. They work hard for us, day in and day out. Do them right.

 

[Antnix1]

What do I suggest?

I would suggest that all pilgrims push back a bit. It’s difficult to do so with language barriers, but informing the hotel that no method of sending details is secure may eventually get through.

There are many very inexpensive solutions for small hotels for both managing reservations and payments. Many allow you to integrate with booking, or not.

For small properties this is a good solution.

Educating pilgrims is another idea, but in most cases it is preaching to the choir. Those that are guilty of no-show are also likely to dispute the charges later when they get home, rendering the whole situation much more expensive for the operator. Chargebacks will set them back 20+ on top of returning the money.

If you operate an Albergue and a digital solution is not for you then change your checkin policy to something like “if we don’t see you or hear from you by 2pm we will give your bed away”.

I am a very big fan of pilgrimage without plans, as much as it is possible. And with that in mind I made the WhatsApp helper in the apps. To compliment this year I built a WhatsApp robot to help Albergue and pension owners broadcast prices and availability in real time to pilgrims. More on that later.

But in the meantime respect and consideration for owners is the best solution. They work hard for us, day in and day out. Do them right.

There are no low-cost solutions. Booking.com's fee is substantial. Maybe 15%. Without that platform, you have an admin overhead (checking emails vs answering the phone), website development and database admin, and all the gdpr issues associated with anything electronic. That's my accountant hat on.

I agree that taking a cc number is probably a bluff as they are likely afraid of the cardholder-not-present chargeback nonsense.

 

[auburnfive]

It seems that on booking.com many places now charge your credit card several days or a week ahead of the reservation. Speculating that they have changed due to people cancelling “ just in case” reservations the day before.

 

[wisepilgrim]

There are no low-cost solutions. Booking.com's fee is substantial. Maybe 15%.

For 75€ a month you can have a fully secure, custom booking page on your own web site that handles payments and which allows you to also sell your beds/rooms on other booking channels. That is a whole lot less than you will pay in commissions elsewhere.

On top of that you don't have to take reservations, a very easy to configure website is included in that price and can take them for you.

FWIW I spent 10 years in Reykjavik managing new startups and I've seen all manner of terrible practices, and have implemented solutions to overcome them.

 

[Antnix1]

For 75€ a month you can have a fully secure, custom booking page on your own web site that handles payments and which allows you to also sell your beds/rooms on other booking channels. That is a whole lot less than you will pay in commissions elsewhere.

On top of that you don't have to take reservations, a very easy to configure website is included in that price and can take them for you.

Well, I'm not im the industry and I'm not looking to argue but many accommodation owners were sold an "only 75 (or whatever) per month" pup only for customers to arrive with no record of the booking.