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Whatever, either approach requires a certain amount of courage, the lack of which clearly demonstrates an over abundance of what physcologists term agreeableness, exhibited by the lack of ability to stand up for oneself.
I of course exhibited a distinct lack of agreeableness.
The search for balance in life appears to be an ongoing conundrum.
One lives in hope.Mentioning it on here, you are more likely to put ideas in people's heads!
Gerard, I AM a psychologist. What I’m referring to is the blatant disregard for others in common settings. There was not one offender, but several over the few weeks. These young ladies generally enter the dorm very late at night and I, and others were awakened by the oblivious overuse of the stuff. It’s not a matter of not standing up for oneself, but finding it an inappropriate time with others sleeping to start a discussion.The OP did, perhaps did not, refrain from the one action that would alleviate her concerns.
Address the matter directly with the perpetrator.
Not rudely, but loudly and clearly.
I once liberally smothered a similar offender in a cloud of flyspray from an aerosol can I found in the kitchen. Subsequent events suggest my actions should at best be considered a final deterrent approach, not the first.
Whatever, either approach requires a certain amount of courage, the lack of which clearly demonstrates an over abundance of what physcologists term agreeableness, exhibited by the lack of ability to stand up for oneself.
I of course exhibited a distinct lack of agreeableness.
The search for balance in life appears to be an ongoing conundrum.
Regards
Gerard
But there is a slight chance that someone will read this and hesitate for just one moment to evaluate their behavior.You need to bring it up with the person or people doing it near you at the time. Here is too late and there is no guarantee that the people who use Lavender oil and post on this forum will even see this post and will be alerted to negative effects on other people.
But there is a slight chance that someone will read this and hesitate for just one moment to evaluate their behavior.
Gerard, I AM a psychologist. What I’m referring to is the blatant disregard for others in common settings. There was not one offender, but several over the few weeks. These young ladies generally enter the dorm very late at night and I, and others were awakened by the oblivious overuse of the stuff. It’s not a matter of not standing up for oneself, but finding it an inappropriate time with others sleeping to start a discussion.
We can also bring up tolerance until the sun burns out. There is a common theme here on the forum of tolerating others, but inappropriate, self serving behaviors should not have to be tolerated, especially when causing harm to another .
My point is that pilgrims need to be more aware of how their actions are affecting others. Albergues are communities and not self serving free for alls. I find it quite disheartening that this, and other inappropriate behaviors have become much more apparent on this, my fifth Camino. I’m not sure if it’s a random blend of pilgrims with rude behaviors or if I’m simply sick of having to be tolerant . Either way, it’s put a damper on my experience ( and agreed by several I’m walking with , not I alone )
But there is a slight chance that someone will read this and hesitate for just one moment to evaluate their behavior.
Well...The Camino is open to all regardless of beliefs, or no beliefs. There is absolutely no requirements for anyone to walk, bike, ride, fly, or any other method to do the Camino. People come from around the world to do it and each is different.
The fact that someone is different from you does not mean they are self-absorbed or thoughtless. It means they are different and have different expectations.
Sophie, please understand that I am like you and I hate the stuff. However, I have two sisters that swear by it. They think these essential oils are God's gifts to humanity and that there is an essential oil for any ailment, sickness, pain, etc. I think it is a crock, but they are different from me.
I think we need to walk on eggshells around others. If someone begins to use a chemical, spray a fragrance then quietly, politely ask them to refrain doing so or to please do it outside where others are not forced to breathe the same thing; explain that it negatively affects your breathing. Once you have identified another pilgrim using these things then plan on avoiding the same albergue or at least stay on the opposite side. I would even speed up or slow down to avoid them.
Part of the Camino is finding that it is not about me and my problems, but about others and helping them.
I find myself agreeing with you....this is a really selfish and unthinking action both this particular persons behalf and others who do the same.Currently walking the Portuguese Way and trying to understand why persons are literally doucing themselves, their bedding, mattresses, etc in lavender oil?!?!? I know some feel this is a deterrent to bedbugs, but it is rather selfish to spray everything down like crazy. I have suffered two nights so far in a lower bunk where the young lady nearly bathed in the stuff( extra sprays in her long hair, all over the bunk mattress, and all over her backpacks which were on the floor near me.) I had instant severe headaches and difficulty breathing all night. STOP BEING SO SELF ABSORBED! Consider how your actions are harming others. Use less, spray only out of the bunk area, keep your sprayed belongings near you, get a private room . Seriously, I’m choking and I’m appalled at the lack of courtesy.
Ixgreecwithbou. Please people stop me think about how your fellow travellers may rect.Currently walking the Portuguese Way and trying to understand why persons are literally doucing themselves, their bedding, mattresses, etc in lavender oil?!?!? I know some feel this is a deterrent to bedbugs, but it is rather selfish to spray everything down like crazy. I have suffered two nights so far in a lower bunk where the young lady nearly bathed in the stuff( extra sprays in her long hair, all over the bunk mattress, and all over her backpacks which were on the floor near me.) I had instant severe headaches and difficulty breathing all night. STOP BEING SO SELF ABSORBED! Consider how your actions are harming others. Use less, spray only out of the bunk area, keep your sprayed belongings near you, get a private room . Seriously, I’m choking and I’m appalled at the lack of courtesy.
agreed!Unfortunately our western societies encourage rampant individualism. “It’s MY camino” and woe betide anyone who suggests individual needs/wants be subjugated to the communal good!
Even better. Multipurpose. Works on snorers too...A brick would work just as well.
Finally, by the way: Rab C Nesbitt would be so proud of you, Bradypus!!!Even better. Multipurpose. Works on snorers too...
Multipurpose. Works on snorers too...
Or how to shut up (us) snorersWe could hijack this thread with the many uses for a brick on the camino!
Funny, but I snore too now that I am older...Even better. Multipurpose. Works on snorers too...
I thought of suggesting a deliberately off-hand comedic remark to them to perhaps hint that their behaviour is not fantastic...
However, I'm still sat here 5 minutes later trying to think of a lavender based joke...
I am pretty tolerant of the idiosyncrasies of others in the albergue. But strong scents are the limit for me. I also get headaches and just find that it infuriates me when others claim my air space. Last year, people with some sickly sweet menthol smell... I don't know if it was a foot rub or what. Can't stand it. And I hate the smell of lavender, period.
Use avons skin so soft. Military use itI have to confess to being a user of essential oils at home. I have about 100 that are used for all manner of things, from treating upset stomachs, to pain relief from burns, etc. I use them because for certain applications, they work.
I use lavender oil a lot for treating insect bites. I am a magnet for insects like mosquitoes. If I walk into our garden at dusk I'll be bitten 10 times in as many seconds. And the bites come up in big red itchy blotches. Lavender oil gives instant relief if dabbed on the bites. Like one drop is enough.
As a repellent though.........? I've tried and never seen it work.
By all means tell me the use of essential oils is nonsense if you must.
I must be imagining it I guess
And tell my wife who immediately grabs the lavender oil for a burn in the kitchen
P.S. I do carry a small amount on Camino!
But only to use in very small amounts to treat insect bites and sunburn.
I have to confess to being a user of essential oils at home. I have about 100 that are used for all manner of things, from treating upset stomachs, to pain relief from burns, etc. I use them because for certain applications, they work.
I use lavender oil a lot for treating insect bites. I am a magnet for insects like mosquitoes. If I walk into our garden at dusk I'll be bitten 10 times in as many seconds. And the bites come up in big red itchy blotches. Lavender oil gives instant relief if dabbed on the bites. Like one drop is enough.
As a repellent though.........? I've tried and never seen it work.
By all means tell me the use of essential oils is nonsense if you must.
I must be imagining it I guess
And tell my wife who immediately grabs the lavender oil for a burn in the kitchen
P.S. I do carry a small amount on Camino!
But only to use in very small amounts to treat insect bites and sunburn.
It's nice that they like soft skin!Use avons skin so soft. Military use it
Please don't.Use avons skin so soft. Military use it
I once liberally smothered a similar offender in a cloud of flyspray from an aerosol can I found in the kitchen.
Why should one person influence 1 whole room??
Funny, but I snore too now that I am older...
That sounds like the Madrid airport, a perfume mall with a runway attached.Once a concentrated volatile oil is released into a confined space, it permeates the air, (depending upon the the amount of oil and the size of the enclosed space, of course) ... and is inhaled by anyone and everyone within that space ....
Some may dislike having it imposed upon them .. to some it might cause a headache, a migraine, or any other painful reaction ... both of which are good reasons to avoid using any essential oil, in any quantity likely to affect others.
More seriously .... It might cause an immediate life-threatening allergic response .... or it might cause a severe reaction, requiring medical intervention, in those with a sensitivity to many, often unidentified, substances.
Use avons skin so soft. Military use it
Urban myth.
Yes. I agree.
And I, for the record, HATE essential oils being used in community space.
I do use SOME, however others give me a violent reaction.
There is no "one size fits all."
This is one reason I generally book private lodgings now when I walk the Camino.
I once was sprayed with an oil by a woman who was selling DoTerra oils.
She didn't ask... she just doused me, as she mewed, "They're orGANic!"
I was in bed for 4 days!
She's lucky my "Bakersfield" didn't come out and she didn't get flattened!
I don't know that there is an answer - people just seem to be into themselves more and more these days.
But MAYBE someone WILL read this thread before they walk and leave their danged oils at home!
(Besides the fact that they do NOT deter bedbugs!)
Rumours=Urban mythsAlthough rumours are that they ve changed the formula now so it's less effective.
We used permethrin and strong deet.Urban myth.
It was, but then tests were run on Skin So Soft to verify the myth, and Skin So Soft failed miserably. The resulting publicity was so bad that Avon added picaridin to it, and labeled it as Bug Guard, so it now works a little bit!Urban myth.
I think they would trade one night in an alberque with lavender scent too be on the pilgrimage again or even for the first time too realise theyre dream!!
I am a tad puzzled. Is this a defense of lavender spray? They might be even happier to be in a non-lavender-scented albergue.Realise when you are lucky and recognise the real hardships some people are going through
I take it to be a reality check, @C clearly. This is a First World problem. Annoying, yes, defiitely. But not that big a deal. (Assuming when I say this that people with severe allergies have the sense not to stay in communal accommodation).I am a tad puzzled. Is this a defense of lavender spray?
All right! Point taken!I take it to be a reality check
Its ok too be confused!I am a tad puzzled. Is this a defense of lavender spray? They might be even happier to be in a non-lavender-scented albergue.
Thank you for your affirmation of my actions.NOT cool ...
The Camino FB pages are fillled with people claiming that lavender works and also silk sheets to prevent bed bug bites. People want to believe this and nothing you say will change their minds.
I do wish the scientific community would do some tests to show the invalidity of these things.
How about this link that I already posted on this thread? I found it with a quick google search.If there are studies, it would be great if you could share links to them. All I ever seem to find are the studies testing what kills them, not what repels them.
Thank you for your affirmation of my actions.
No. Not seriously. It was a wind-up mate.Seriously ??? .
I'd have answered: 'I don't mind being denounced, but unequivocally is going a bit far!'No. Not seriously. It was a wind-up mate.
I take it to be a reality check, @C clearly. This is a First World problem. Annoying, yes, defiitely. But not that big a deal. (Assuming when I say this that people with severe allergies have the sense not to stay in communal accommodation).
No. Not seriously. It was a wind-up mate.
I don't have numbers, but I work with a lot people in America, Europe, and developing Asia - and Westerners (especially Americans) are much more sensitive and allergic than everyone else, hands down. In the 'third world' country I reside in for at least half the year, severe allergies are almost unheard of.Allergies affect all mankind, not only those living in ‘First world’ countries.
I personally know several people who have to do exactly that because they are exquisitely sensitive to something - whether it be scent, mold, or EMF. Or when they go out they have to take extensive medical support 'in case.' I'm not saying this to be callous, but that's what they need to to do navigate this world with it's infinite number of allergens and stimuli.Should those with severe allergies also avoid public transport, markets, schools, shop, hospitals, libraries etc, etc.
Should they, in fact, stay at home ... ‘assuming’ they have one ... in order to avoid accidentally coming into contact with an allergen?
Chinacat, thank you for your questions. I have been slightly uncomfortable with having sent a reply on another thread, and your suggestion of a wink emoji could have helped, but in fact, this is about a number of things, including humour. Experience has taught me that it does not always translate very well. In addition, when we take time to remember that there are people of many first languages communicating here via English, it is amazing we have so few misunderstandings. Thanks for the reminder! And I don’t need to add an emoji, I am serious!Perhaps all posts that are intended as ‘wind-ups’ .... ie are essentially untruths .... could be ‘flagged’ in some way, perhaps with a ‘wink’ ?
‘Setting a trap’ for those whom you wish to mock, for whatever reason, isn’t really very funny in the ‘public’ context of this forum, particularly in threads which evoke extreme reactions, based on personal experience/spiritual vs secular/prejudice/assumptions et al.
Can we not recognise that every member of this forum is an individual human being .... each with our own unique motives and experiences.
Surely respect and goodwill sheds more light into the darkness?
@gerardcarey, it sounded like fun when you posted the first message about spraying others with fly killer spray or something like that. It didn't sound so fun in your second reply to @JabbaPapa. But on the other hand, this forum looks like it's turning more and more into a fun forum anyway.No. Not seriously. It was a wind-up mate.
Chinacat, thank you for your questions. I have been slightly uncomfortable with having sent a reply on another thread, and your suggestion of a wink emoji could have helped, but in fact, this is about a number of things, including humour. Experience has taught me that it does not always translate very well. In addition, when we take time to remember that there are people of many first languages communicating here via English, it is amazing we have so few misunderstandings. Thanks for the reminder! And I don’t need to add an emoji, I am serious!
I thought I might find a more fun definition but failed due to the shortage of time. So here's from Wiki:
This thread had (and still has) some interesting info. For example, I didn't even know that people can be allergic to smells in a physical way. I applaud those who don't get tired of trying to impart knowledge about the difference between insect repellent and insect killing agents. Or even the difference between various kind of insects and how they react or don't react to different agents. During our last stint on the CF there were mosquitos in one or two rooms we stayed in. Over the years, I've developed a more and more severe reaction to the bites of our European kind of mosquitos and I'm interested in exploring natural repellents. So that's related to the CF actually. <sarc on> Of course, I could let myself get bitten every night because kids are starving in Africa. <sarc off>
- Fallacy of relative privation (also known as "appeal to worse problems" or "not as bad as") – dismissing an argument or complaint due to the existence of more important problems in the world, regardless of whether those problems bear relevance to the initial argument. First World problems are a subset of this fallacy.
Bringing up the First World problem argument is like a bit like throwing a stink bomb into a conversation.
My comment refers to the term and context when it was brought into the conversation for the first time, too ... the forum thread structure doesn't allow any "branches" and it's therefore sometimes not clear what belongs to what.I thought of not using the terms but resorted to that used in the post to which I was replying .. I used it as a form of shorthand
Thinking Ruitelan or Ventosa?Especially if it is the "Flight of the Valkyries" at dawn, especially ...
BC SY
At Emaus albergue in Burgos, where I served as a hospitalera last September, soft music is played in the dormitories at 7 am as a sign that the guests may leave their beds and that breakfast will be served shortly. All the responses which I received were positive, as getting up before then was discouraged, so a good night's sleep could be had by all. Except for the hospitalera, who has been preparing breakfast. House rules are told to pilgrims when they arrive, so they know what to expect. I never had to deal with someone spraying essential oils all over a dormitory, but I would certainly discourage it, as the rooms are small and everyone must breathe. Perhaps sensible house rules told to all as they arrive could discourage some of the more thoughtless and selfish behaviour and remind people that they are in a shared space.Thinking Ruitelan or Ventosa?
I like looking at lavender, but I don't like the scent. And some people think that it's a good idea to ruin perfectly good chocolate by adding lavender to it!Just thought of this thread when I read an article describing some of the possible positive health benefits of lavendar. But based on the comments I've read here, I take it that lavendar does NOT have a positive anxiety-reducing effect for many of you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/23/science/lavender-scent-anxiety.html
I spent a couple of days in Toulouse last year, prior to a stroll on the Piamonte. The place is famous for lavender - I found a shop selling all kinds of lavender-themed products. I bought some lavender mustard. Very interesting taste...I like looking at lavender, but I don't like the scent. And some people think that it's a good idea to ruin perfectly good chocolate by adding lavender to it!
https://pinchandswirl.com/dark-chocolate-lavender-blueberry-truffles/
Yes, great idea, but how much weight would carrying a brick add to our pack?We could hijack this thread with the many uses for a brick on the camino!
I purchased bars of lavendar soap in France a few years ago. I put them in my dresser drawers at home and the wonderful scent still lingers.I spent a couple of days in Toulouse last year, prior to a stroll on the Piamonte. The place is famous for lavender - I found a shop selling all kinds of lavender-themed products. I bought some lavender mustard. Very interesting taste...
I like looking at lavender, but I don't like the scent. And some people think that it's a good idea to ruin perfectly good chocolate by adding lavender to it!
https://pinchandswirl.com/dark-chocolate-lavender-blueberry-truffles/
@chinacat, I sent you a long-ish reply in a PM. I hope it helps the dialog...@VNwalking
I was taken aback by the stark language of your post, and how it might have been ‘read’ by anyone dealing with allergies, particularly anyone dealing with ‘allergy-bullying’.
OMG. Especially that, and then.No one likes the guy whose cologne arrives fifteen seconds before he does. Be courteous and do not inflict your fragrances on the rest of us. Ditto your taste in music, even if it is Flight of the Valkyries over and over at dawn...
Welcome to my life, Jill.I once stayed in a run-down albergue in Trabadelo (before Susi's arrived!). I was glad it was just a two-person room, until my roommate, a Korean pilgrim, pulled out a big canister of bug poison and started liberally pouring the powder all around his bed and the room. He was smiling brightly at me, through the cloud of airborne pesticide, him thinking how lucky I was that he was taking care of this for the both of us.
The disposable covers don't do much, but they help. Mattresses never get cleaned, hence the advice to take a sleeping bag or sleeping bag liner. They are ten years filthier than they were ten years ago!Made me wonder just how filthy the mattresses were.
The only item on this list that I can identify with is Voltaren ointment. When I saw my doctor a couple of days ago, she recommended that I apply it at the end of my day's walk, for pain.Odor de flatulence, stinky feet, smoker’s residue, unwashed pilgrim, wet clothing hanging off beds, voltaren ointment, spearmint foot cream, lavender oil, tea tree oil, the list goes on. Good luck with creating an odor-free zone in a dorm.
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