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Trends in 2023 - Gronze article

Bradypus

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Time of past OR future Camino
Too many and too often!
Antón Pombo has written a long article for the Gronze website commenting on some trends in the Santiago pilgrim office statistics for 2023. Amongst other things noting substantial shifts in the relative popularity of the major routes.

 
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Interesting that he states that some feel the proportion of people not registering for a Compostela is now as high as 25%. Significantly higher than the figures we often throw around here on the forum.

I am fully appreciative that this is just an opinion.
 
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I don't recall anyone doing a poll on this, do you?
Can't remember ever seeing one. My own entirely unsupported feeling is that the proportion who do not request a Compostela may be growing - either because they are on a second or later pilgrimage or people whose motivation for walking is wholly secular and who have no interest in receiving an overtly religious document. My own position these days has elements of both.
 
I think that one speaks of a trend when one looks at longer term development over time instead of comparing one year to the previous year.

2020 and 2021 were not normal years and the same applies to 2022 because 2021/2022 were a combined Holy Year on the one hand and foreign travel had not yet recovered after the Covid years on the other hand. From what I remember of previous Holy Years the increase in Compostela numbers is mainly due to the domestic target groups and it is mainly observed during the summer months and mainly in the 100-150 km range around Santiago.

1. When you look at Spanish Compostela recipients you do see a Holy Year effect in 2022, with a noticeable decline in the following year 2023 but overall a continued steady increase in the number of Spanish Compostela recipients while the article detects a "reorientation of Spaniards towards other destinations and experiences" (?).
Spaniards.jpg

2. As to Compostela recipients with the Invierno as their declared Camino (bearing in mind that 2022 was part of the Holy Year 2021/22 with a lot of exposure in the Spanish media and that the Invierno lies within the 200 km range of Santiago) what does the time series tell us? That the numbers steadily increase with a Holy Year blip or that there has been a misfortune of a 14% decrease in numbers which is all that the article has to say about the "trend"?
Invierno.jpg

And just for fun: the number of non-Spanish Compostela recipients over time - a steady increase with no Holy Year blips.
Foreigners.jpg
 
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And just for fun: the number of non-Spanish Compostela recipients over time - a steady increase with no Holy Year blips.
The sheer scale of numbers in an "ordinary" year these days tends to make the 'Holy Year blips' appear a bit of a damp squib. There is a pretty strong case to be made that the extraordinary growth of the Caminos owes its beginnings to the efforts by the Xunta to promote the 1993 Holy Year. Which included building the first chain of purpose-built albergues. Numbers recorded in 1993 were 10x those in 1992! A spike of that order these days would be something to observe - preferably via webcam from a long way away! :cool:
 
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I submit that the 25% figure is probably, and IMHO, high. Based on my direct experience at the PIlgrim Office, I am more comfortable with a "self-reject" rate of 10-15%.. Still if one in ten people self-reject, that is a a high number.

This said, getting hard numbers to base any estimate of the number of people who "reject" obtaining a Compostela would be very difficult.

In my view, the way to do it would be to track each and every pilgrim departing a near-in node: Sarria, Tui, Ferrol, etc. on a given day. This would require something like an Apple Air Tag - or equivalent attached to their mochila. These people would be prompted to drop their tags off once the reached Santiago - at the counter if they were seeking a Compostela, or in a box outside if they were not. They would be collected and date stamped on recovery.

The results, when analyzed, will give you an accurate count, except that people might behave differently if they know they are being watched or counted.

Short of this expensive and complicated type of effort, your crystal ball is as good as mine.

Hope this helps the dialog.

Tom
 
he states that some feel the proportion of people not registering for a Compostela is now as high as 25%
I don't know where A. Pombo got his figure from but 25%-30% is a figure that is frequently seen in Galician media and in studies, for example:
  • Este outono o presidente do Goberno Galego, Alfonso Rueda, comentou na rolda de prensa posterior ao Consello da Xunta que podía haber un 30% de peregrinos realizando o Camiño de Santiago que non aparecen nas estatísticas, porque por distintos motivos non recollen a Compostela (see link).

  • Na realidade, esse número será bem superior (cerca de 120 mil peregrinos), já que se estima que aproximadamente 25% não levanta o certificado da peregrinação (see link).
Or in a publication from the Xunta de Galicia for an international seminar, published in 2020 and referring to the year 2017: "En el año 2017, el Camino de Santiago recibió a más de 300.000 peregrinos. Más concretamente se entregaron 300.000 "Compostelas" que no se corresponden con el mismo número de peregrinos. Hay un 30% de peregrinos que no reciben "la Compostela" por diversos motivos: esperas largas para su recogida, peregrinos que ya cuentan con varias y no sienten la necesidad de recogerlas (see link).
 
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In my view, the way to do it would be to track each and every pilgrim departing a near-in node: Sarria, Tui, Ferrol, etc. on a given day. This would require something like an Apple Air Tag - or equivalent attached to their mochila. These people would be prompted to drop their tags off once the reached Santiago - at the counter if they were seeking a Compostela, or in a box outside if they were not. They would be collected and date stamped on recovery.
An intriguing notion. How would you achieve compliance though? If someone like myself has no particular interest in visiting the pilgrim office anyway are they likely to consent to being tagged? Wouldn't be my immediate response. Would you have to introduce some sort of permit scheme for pilgrims as has been mentioned in another thread about wilderness trails in the USA? I for one would simply choose an alternative route.
 
Does the Gronze number also account for the people who walk only a portion of a camino, and not into SdC? For example, where in these numbers (if at all) would you find someone who walked only from SJPP or Roncesvalles to Logrono?
 
Does the Gronze number also account for the people who walk only a portion of a camino, and not into SdC? For example, where in these numbers (if at all) would you find someone who walked only from SJPP or Roncesvalles to Logrono?
The article is quoting arrival statistics from the Santiago pilgrim office. So those who only walked some other part of a Camino without reaching Santiago would not be included. The SJPDP pilgrim office publishes its own much more limited set of statistics for those who choose to register there. But of course that also is entirely voluntary and not all those who set off from SJPDP choose to register.
 
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Does the Gronze number also account for the people who walk only a portion of a camino, and not into SdC? For example, where in these numbers (if at all) would you find someone who walked only from SJPP or Roncesvalles to Logrono?
No. The article merely puts the statistics into words that are published by the Pilgrim Office in Santiago on their website where the data are presented in the form of graphics and tables. They refer to the number of Compostelas that they have given out in 2023 and in comparison to 2022 and it is based on the information that pilgrims provide in the form when they apply for a Compostela. I find some of the author's conclusions dubious (see earlier comment).
 
The article is quoting arrival statistics from the Santiago pilgrim office. So those who only walked some other part of a Camino without reaching Santiago would not be included. The SJPDP pilgrim office publishes its own much more limited set of statistics for those who choose to register there. But of course that also is entirely voluntary and not all those who set off from SJPDP choose to register.
I was thinking more of the Gronze estimate of those who don’t get a Compostela - that is, does 30% include those who don’t arrive in SdC?
 
I was thinking more of the Gronze estimate of those who don’t get a Compostela - that is, does 30% include those who don’t arrive in SdC?
The percentage refers to the number of pilgrims who arrive in Santiago and don't get a Compostela. Over the years, the regional government of Galicia has commissioned numerous studies and surveys on the economic impact of pilgrims in Galicia, often done by departments of the Santiago University.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
An intriguing notion. How would you achieve compliance though? If someone like myself has no particular interest in visiting the pilgrim office anyway are they likely to consent to being tagged? Wouldn't be my immediate response. Would you have to introduce some sort of permit scheme for pilgrims as has been mentioned in another thread about wilderness trails in the USA? I for one would simply choose an alternative route.
It could also be accomplished through use of an app. Most helpful apps would record GPS and device ID. User Data from several Camino app makers could be aggregated, cleaned and studied to estimate pilgrim flows. Not all pilgrims use apps, however, it could provide another data point that may be useful in validating or supporting pilgrim office numbers.
 
I submit that the 25% figure is probably, and IMHO, high. Based on my direct experience at the PIlgrim Office, I am more comfortable with a "self-reject" rate of 10-15%.. Still if one in ten people self-reject, that is a a high number.
Do you mean that 10 - 15% of the pilgrims you see rejected the Compostela and just collect a distance certificate?
But pilgrims like myself don’t come near the Pilgrims office.
 
BTW, I usually write "Compostela recipients" and that's what you often see in news articles but one look at the Pilgrim Office's statistics website shows that they refer throughout to the numbers of "peregrinos" and not "Compostelas". My guess is that it's actually all those whose data are registered by them. The reporting about these statistical data is often not particularly rigorous.
 
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Peter: That's why my observation only supports a lower - "guesstimate." That is all this is anyway. Absent hard observation and statistics, all anyone can do is make a semi-informed guesstimate.
Hope this helps.
 
It could also be accomplished through use of an app. Most helpful apps would record GPS and device ID. User Data from several Camino app makers could be aggregated, cleaned and studied to estimate pilgrim flows. Not all pilgrims use apps, however, it could provide another data point that may be useful in validating or supporting pilgrim office numbers.
It is still a LOT of work, requiring a system of analysis that does not exist presently. It would take the a governmental organization concerned with this information or trend, to fund an appropriate study. I doubt it can be done in an informal manner.

Does it really matter?
 
Counting each and every Camino pilgrim down to the last man, woman and child is a pipe dream. There is no political or economic interest or will to invest the necessary financial, material and human resources to do that.

Professional statisticians have numerous tools at their disposal to get good enough numbers such as sample surveys, interviews of representative sets of actors involved, statistics on pernoctations, degree of occupation in accommodations etc etc. A more modern method is described in this news article (in Spanish) "A pilot system to count pilgrims between Arzúa and O Pino" and the regional government's own press release (in Spanish) "The Xunta launches a system to count the number of pilgrims who travel the Saint James routes".

Amateur statisticians can do their own data collection: Just sit in front of your screen and watch the Bando / San Marco webcam and count. Then try to get the Pilgrim Office to share with you the number of registered pilgrims for that day and for the Camino Francés - it's in their database and extractable. And don't forget to report back on the forum. :cool:
 
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Interesting that he states that some feel the proportion of people not registering for a Compostela is now as high as 25%. Significantly higher than the figures we often throw around here on the forum.
The only formal study I've seen on the question suggests about 15% -- however, that % figure varies greatly from month to month, according to the study, so that it's much higher in high pilgrim season, but gets as low as ~5% among Winter Pilgrims.

In some periods it probably can get as high as 20% - 25%, which is where this impression might come from.
 
Oh, and the partial studies I've seen on historic trends on this question have all concluded that whatever the % may be, it's been increasing decade to decade.
 
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Interesting that he states that some feel the proportion of people not registering for a Compostela is now as high as 25%. Significantly higher than the figures we often throw around here on the forum.
I am fully appreciative that this is just an opinion.
I like precision and reliable sources :cool:. Antón Pombo, one of the big names in Camino circles, writes (transl.) in this recent article: "In fact, some projections raise the real figure to about 600,000 pilgrims, which if true implies that more than a quarter would not have been recorded in the statistics of the Pilgrim Reception Office [...]."

IOW, in 2023, around six hundred thousand Camino pilgrims arrived in Santiago and not just the four hundred and fifty thousand pilgrims who went to the Pilgrim Office and got registered.

So that's not a journalist's and researcher's personal opinion as he refers to "proyecciones". The easiest way to find out where these percentages come from would be to email him and ask him and hope that he won't reply: "That's what I think" or "That's what I read somewhere". 😇

From what I can tell these percentages come from the Galician administration and are the data that they work with. Quote from Nava Castro, Director of Turismo de Galicia: "in addition to those pilgrims who do not collect their Compostela, which is known to be between 30 and 50 % more [than the number of pilgrims registered by the Pilgrim Office] (see link - 5 January 2023).
 
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Antón Pombo has written a long article for the Gronze website commenting on some trends in the Santiago pilgrim office statistics for 2023. Amongst other things noting substantial shifts in the relative popularity of the major routes.
Bradypus, thanks for the link, very interesting.
What caught my attention was the 'tale of two caminos': where the uber-popular Portuguese Coastal seems to reflect the mores and requirements of the 'modern pilgrim'. Whereas the poor VLDP with its old fashioned demands of a long slog with some uncertainty and hardship, is fast losing what little popularity it ever had.
 
IOW, in 2023, around six million Camino pilgrims arrived in Santiago and not just the four and a half million pilgrims who went to the Pilgrim Office and got registered.
I think the accepted total number recorded by the pilgrim office for 2023 is just over 446 thousand rather than four and half million. The pilgrim office figures may be a little unreliable but they're probably not out by a factor of 10. And there would almost certainly have been even more posts here about how busy the town is getting... :cool:
 
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I think the accepted total number recorded by the pilgrim office for 2023 is just over 446 thousand rather than four and half million. The pilgrim office figures may be a little unreliable but they're probably not out by a factor of 10. And there would almost certainly have been even more posts here about how busy the town is getting... :cool:
Thank you!!! So somebody does read my comments 😅.

Serves me right for bragging about liking precision. I corrected my post. My typing fingers must have been dissociated from my mind that got sidetracked by numbers in the region of Santiago's five million annual visitors (peregrinos, turistas y excursionistas) that I've frequently read about. 😇
 
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I like precision and reliable sources :cool:. Antón Pombo, one of the big names in Camino circles, writes (transl.) in this recent article: "In fact, some projections raise the real figure to about 600,000 pilgrims, which if true implies that more than a quarter would not have been recorded in the statistics of the Pilgrim Reception Office [...]."
The real imponderable is how many are on the Camino in a given year who do not reach Compostela, whether by choice or from doing their Camino in stages.

I have seen not one single robust study of this, and I'm not even sure it would be materially feasible to achieve one, given the vastness of the whole network.

Plus those on the Camino Ways but heading to Fátima, Lourdes, Montserrat or Manresa, Rome, or wherever.

I can imagine no solid methodology to determine the number of pilgrims on the Camino in any given year.
 
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I put it in an older thread on the same question, but sorry not sure where.
What a pity that you cannot provide a link to the source, especially as it is apparently a formal study as you wrote. How tantalising. Can you remember when the study was done or published and by whom?

So all we have as sources are recent news articles from Galician media, and when there is a reference as to the origin it is to representatives of the regional government and administration like Alonso Rueda, Nava Castro, or Ildefonso de la Campa; they all work with numbers in the range of 20% to 25% or 30% to denote the percentage of pilgrims who arrive in Santiago and don’t register at the Pilgrim Office to collect a Compostela.

So whether accurate or not, it should not surprise that Antón Pombo uses a percentage of 25% in his newest Gronze article. It‘s not unusual to see. Here is yet another recent quote (see link): “Taking into account these official data and the fact that it is estimated that between 20 or 25% of the people who walk the Camino do not collect the Compostela, it can be estimated that the number of pilgrims who passed through the city of Tui is close to 120,000 people” [while the Pilgrim Office‘s data is 93,184].
 
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What a pity that you cannot provide a link to the source, especially as it is apparently a formal study as you wrote. How tantalising. Can you remember when the study was done or published and by whom?
No, but I do remember the methodology -- which was a large series of interviews organised over the whole of a year (or 12-month period), of pilgrims having arrived in Santiago. Can't remember if it was sociological, anthropological, or something else.

Other studies I've seen have been conducted in a much narrower time frame.
 
I can't find a recent formal study that says 15% of pilgrims arriving in Santiago do not claim a Compostela and do not register with the Pilgrim Office although I did try and I looked around quite a bit ... everything I find are statements from professionals in Galicia in the tourism / academic sectors with the same ballpark figure as the author of the Gronze article that is being discussed, namely a quarter to a third, such as this one made at the presentation of a study done by the University of Coruña UDC: "'About 25,000 people walked the Camino Inglés in 2022 and collected a Compostela, but we estimate that 30% of all pilgrims who do the route do not collect a Compostela,' explains Manuel Mirás."

I mention this mainly because it led me to the actual study results which I found interesting. We here on the forum tend to forget that the lone Camino walker from very far away is not the typical peregrin@. The largest group are Spaniards, they walk alone or in groups of friends or with family and they walk repeatedly and often.
 
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Anton Pombo, an award-winning historian and journalist born and raised on the camino, who was a student of Valiña and helped research and waymark the Finisterre, Ingles, and Portuguse ways, is taking a kicking on here, his research and reporting referred-to as "opinions." He walks the Ways and updates his best-selling Spanish trail guides every year. But his report is put-down and discredited by people who clearly don't even read Spanish.
If I'm going to choose to believe anyone's reporting on Camino numbers, it's gonna be Anton Pombo.
 
@Rebekah Scott, rereading all of the comments above I can see how you have come by that opinion, but personally I don't think we are trying to give the author a kicking at all.
Certainly some are questioning some of the conclusions that he is presenting. But bearing in mind that the collection of the data used to form some of those conclusions is not as accurate as it could be I can understand that.

I am fully appreciative that this is just an opinion
This, for example, was in response to his comment:
"In fact, some projections raise the real number to around 600,000 pilgrims, which if true implies that more than a quarter would not have been registered... "
By opinion I meant the term ' some projections ' - in other words I'm talking about the projections. A poor choice of wording on my part. I'm not questioning his reporting.

This is a topic ( how many people do not collect their Compostela) that interests me. I've actually raised exactly this issue on numerous occasions here on the forum, including in the form of my current light-hearted poll.
 
Calculating exactly how many pilgrims walk the camino is relatively simple, if someone wanted to do it. The fact that virtually every person walks the exact same path, and almost all join at a handful of different points along the way, makes it quite easy to measure. Simply put a laser counter across the path in a few strategic locations. Everyone that passes through the beam is counted. Exactly how they count the number of cyclists on a bike path.
Or you could go low-tech and just give some of the various food trucks / donativa stops a small incentive to count all the pilgrims that pass them each day and submit the numbers.
 
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Calculating exactly how many pilgrims walk the camino is relatively simple, if someone wanted to do it. The fact that virtually every person walks the exact same path, and almost all join at a handful of different points along the way, makes it quite easy to measure. Simply put a laser counter across the path in a few strategic locations. Everyone that passes through the beam is counted. Exactly how they count the number of cyclists on a bike path.
Or you could go low-tech and just give some of the various food trucks / donativa stops a small incentive to count all the pilgrims that pass them each day and submit the numbers.
That would hugely inflate the numbers because you'd also count the Spanish people that use these very same parts for their daily exercise or take their dog for a walk.

Your food truck idea might work better but I feel for that poor person sitting there at 4am in the summer to start counting :)
 
By opinion I meant the term ' some projections ' - in other words I'm talking about the projections. A poor choice of wording on my part. I'm not questioning his reporting.
If we are going to closely analyze wording, I'm not sure I would use "opinion" for projections. Projections are not, to me, opinions which are personal views. Rather they are an analysis of data. More objective, as it were. That doesn't mean they are accurate. You can say they are inaccurate because the underlying data is incorrect, or there is a flaw in the formulas that are used to create the projections from the data. But opinions makes them out as much more subjective than they would be if they were truly projections.

But this is just echoes of my former life as an English teacher manifesting.
 
Calculating exactly how many pilgrims walk the camino is relatively simple, if someone wanted to do it. The fact that virtually every person walks the exact same path, and almost all join at a handful of different points along the way, makes it quite easy to measure. Simply put a laser counter across the path in a few strategic locations. Everyone that passes through the beam is counted. Exactly how they count the number of cyclists on a bike path.
Or you could go low-tech and just give some of the various food trucks / donativa stops a small incentive to count all the pilgrims that pass them each day and submit the numbers.
Would that it were so. And if it were indeed as you say, then it wouldn't be too hard. But I think there are a couple of assumptions that you make that are in error.

First, "virtually every person walks the same path". Unfortunately, this is not the case. Because there is not one path that is the Camino. There are multiple paths, as we all know, stretching across Europe. As you point out, these do tend to converge. But they don't all converge until you get to the Plaza de Obradoiro. Even the first and second most walked routes don't share a path into that plaza, as I can say from experience (having walked both the Portugues and the Frances).

Second, that "Everyone that passes through the beam is counted" and can be presumed to be a pilgrim. As "sun is shining" notes, not everyone on a Camino path is necessarily a pilgrim. This is especially true in the Plaza de Obradoiro (which, as has been noted above, is the only place where all of the main routes converge). You'd need a way to filter all of the non-pilgrims from pilgrims and, if in the Plaza, filter out people crossing your beam of light multiple times (I usually visit the Plaza multiple times after any Camino).

If you go your alternate route and get various donativa stops to count the pilgrims that pass, you run the risk of errors due to faulty counts when groups pass or they are distracted (perhaps talking to pilgrims who actually stop) and miss passing pilgrims. If they count the ones that stop (easier to expect them to do accurately) you run the challenge that not everyone stops at every donativo. If donativo A reports 5 pilgrims and donativo reports 7, all you know is that a minimum of 7 walked that route that day. You don't know how many stopped at both or neither.

I think if it were that easy, someone would be doing so, either from the Galician Ministry of Tourism and Economic Development (or whatever the appropriate government department) or for academic research. But unfortunately, it isn't.
 
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If we are going to closely analyze wording, I'm not sure I would use "opinion" for projections. Projections are not, to me, opinions which are personal views. Rather they are an analysis of data. More objective, as it were. That doesn't mean they are accurate. You can say they are inaccurate because the underlying data is incorrect, or there is a flaw in the formulas that are used to create the projections from the data. But opinions makes them out as much more subjective than they would be if they were truly projections.

But this is just echoes of my former life as an English teacher manifesting.
I concur.Exactly why I said it was a poor choice of wording on my part.
 
Would that it were so. And if it were indeed as you say, then it wouldn't be too hard. But I think there are a couple of assumptions that you make that are in error.

First, "virtually every person walks the same path". Unfortunately, this is not the case. Because there is not one path that is the Camino. There are multiple paths, as we all know, stretching across Europe. As you point out, these do tend to converge. But they don't all converge until you get to the Plaza de Obradoiro. Even the first and second most walked routes don't share a path into that plaza, as I can say from experience (having walked both the Portugues and the Frances).

Second, that "Everyone that passes through the beam is counted" and can be presumed to be a pilgrim. As "sun is shining" notes, not everyone on a Camino path is necessarily a pilgrim. This is especially true in the Plaza de Obradoiro (which, as has been noted above, is the only place where all of the main routes converge). You'd need a way to filter all of the non-pilgrims from pilgrims and, if in the Plaza, filter out people crossing your beam of light multiple times (I usually visit the Plaza multiple times after any Camino).

If you go your alternate route and get various donativa stops to count the pilgrims that pass, you run the risk of errors due to faulty counts when groups pass or they are distracted (perhaps talking to pilgrims who actually stop) and miss passing pilgrims. If they count the ones that stop (easier to expect them to do accurately) you run the challenge that not everyone stops at every donativo. If donativo A reports 5 pilgrims and donativo reports 7, all you know is that a minimum of 7 walked that route that day. You don't know how many stopped at both or neither.

I think if it were that easy, someone would be doing so, either from the Galician Ministry of Tourism and Economic Development (or whatever the appropriate government department) or for academic research. But unfortunately, it isn't.
I agree there would be challenges, but not insurmountable. Traffic flows are tracked in countless places all over the world, and similar issues exist, but those issues can be mitigated.

Yes there are Camino routes all over Europe, but the majority of traffic flows through three or four routes. There are spots on every route where almost all pilgrims walking that route will pass by, but few locals will, simply due to the particular location. That’s where you’d place an automated counter. The majority of pilgrims on that route would be counted, and few locals would get mistakenly included. After that it’s easy enough to extrapolate to get approximate counts for routes with no counter.

No method is 100%, but this is a relatively easy thing to accomplish. As to why it hasn’t been done, that’s probably because no one is motivated enough to do the significant amount of work required to get it done. I think it would be a great research project for a phd student writing a thesis on the Camino or pilgrimage.
 

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